Square Enix Policy Concerning Third-Party Tool Use

# Jul 07 2005 at 7:24 PM Rating: Decent

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258 posts

Is Fraps allowed to be synchronized (used) with FFXI?

Thumbs up Square.

# Jul 07 2005 at 5:40 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1592763251346

12 posts

Square has been saying there working out the bots and gil sellers for over 8 months now. On the lakshmi server pakakra has sold over 10 pecock charms in the last month and over 35 emp hairpins. I watch this guy voke angus out of thin air. Ever time they change the code the gil sellers adapt and make a new bot. Here is a idea put the really high end item on npc for a set price and make the items more available. Here is another idea you could make doubles of certain items with greater or lesser than mods. then you wouldnt have to camp the same nm over and over. Praying that there bot fails and you have a chance.

Here's my 2 gil

# Jul 07 2005 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good

__DEL__1592275562385

69 posts

I use the FFXI Windower by Archbell/Azzaril. I see no problem using this (version 3.2 is out by the way ) because SE is, in fact, violating the windows user agreement I believe. Isn't it true that because microsoft windows is a multitasking OS, all users have the RIGHT to do just that. Multi-task. In FFXI you cannot Alt~tab out, you cannot CTRL ALT DEL out nor can you use the Start button to get out. Basically SE is saying: if you Play this game you get to wait for hours on end for a party or an NM spawn, so while you wait sit here and stare at a screen because we don't want you to go do other things that relate to Real Life. If SE would just make it so FFXI was able to run in windowed mode or fullscreen depending on the user's preferances, we would see alot less of these updates. The stupid gilsellers would keep on truckin and so would the lame hackers but that is SE's fault mostly because they don't do anything about it and the hackers botters etc know that. Also btw: I play other MMORPGs such as Ragnarok Online, Rush on Seven Episodes online and d.o. online. All 3 of these have the choice of running in windowed mode or fullscreen and they don't have near as many problems as SE does. Maybe when they put this on Xbox (the lamest system ever created because it ruins games that were meant for other systems before it came out) SE will learn that they should make FFXI for PC available to run in windowed mode. My support to all Windower Users.

EDIT: For those who rate us windower users down:
It seems to me that most people who get pissed off about the windower are mostly PS2 users. Is it because you are jeleous?

Edited, Fri Jul 8 14:20:33 2005

RE: Here's my 2 gil

# Jul 08 2005 at 7:22 AM Rating: Decent

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2,817 posts

No, SE is not violating any MS TOS by not conforming to the Windows standard application behavior.

WTF!! 0.o

# Jul 07 2005 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1593967465486

5 posts

Instead of fighting this like the war on Drugs, y not leagalize and even the battlefield? >.> or uhh is that too simple for you all? still dont know what i mean? GIVE US ALL THAT/THOSE ABILITIES >.<

s00perrant

# Jul 07 2005 at 7:54 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591809046696

106 posts

People will always be hacking the hell out of FFXI. It can't be stopped. There will always be gilsellers. They can't be stopped. Do I really think that anyone fears SE and their absolutely meaningless threats? No. How many times has some jerk MPKd another and the GM done nothing? Too many to count. I think that SE is doing a reasonable job of making it a little more difficult for these people to function. Hell, a GM used debugs on one of the Bismarck cheaters named earlier effectively assassinating him. I have never bought gil online and I never will. So, since I have never bought it I must assume that despite the public outcry many of you other players have or they would not still be in business. If that is the case, I kindly ask that you shut your suck-box forever and go the hell away. I have played for over a year now and have put in many sleepless and intoxicated nights to get to where I am in this game and am proud of what my friends and I have accomplished. Hacks are created to give an unfair advantage over other players and make it easier and quicker to level and make gil. They are much more prevalent on PCs then they are on PS2 making the PC a platform choice for hackers. I don't agree with people that use them but I'd rather have people use them benignly as opposed to maliciously and to ***** other players over. I think that if you are caught using hacks and exploits to profit or to gain an unfair advantage over others then SE should smear VD all over the toilet seat and slip ex-lax into your food. -end rant

.hack

# Jul 06 2005 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent

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31 posts

Totally needs to be like in dot hack were a hacker is publicly executed in a interesting fashion. You know just look out at the ocean in lower Jueno and have someone getting spun on a giant slot machine while 20 rngs shoot at them. How awesome would that be?

RE: .hack

# Jul 07 2005 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent

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189 posts

Quote:

Noluenn says:I HOPE A MALBORO @#%^S YOU SO HARD IN YOUR TINY LITTLE TARUTARU *** THAT THE TENTACLE COMES UP OUT YOUR THROAT. And then I'll cut that tentacle off, with you still @#%^ed on it, and BOIL YOU DOWN AND SELL YOU AS A HI-POTION FOR 3.5K.

wow 3.5k for a hipotion XD thats cheap!

Huh...

# Jul 06 2005 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good

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2,793 posts

I'm actually surprised they rendered what was under the ocean in Batallia Downs, or that they even bothered to make it interactable, with the sounds, or depth.

Hacker

# Jul 06 2005 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591831375582

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102 posts

Actually, the PS2 version of FFXI is supposedly even easier to hack than the PC version. I'm not sure how it's done but I've been told you basically load an OS like NetBSD, then use that OS to hack the info on the PS2's HDD which apparently has virtually no security whatsoever.

^^

# Jul 06 2005 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1593365059611

29 posts

Hackers Yay!
Cheaters Boo!

Windower and Other programs

# Jul 06 2005 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591811603327

Scholar

113 posts

I have been programming for many years and I have come across quite a few programs for ffxi that people have written including Windower and a certain plugin for ACTools that would allow you to read information off of the screen and sendkeys to perform tasks. I don't see how they can expect to catch people using these such tools without just making a judgement based on behavior of the character. I am not familiar with law but is it even legal to ban accounts because people look suspicious thats like telling someone they can't eat at a resturaunt because they are acting weird ( which in turn they could just have social anxiety or something ). I mean what if I want to fish for 18 hours straight are they going to ban me thinking I am a bot?

RE: Windower and Other programs

# Jul 06 2005 at 3:20 PM Rating: Default

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183 posts

its their game they dont need a reason to ban your ***

RE: Windower and Other programs

# Jul 06 2005 at 1:41 PM Rating: Decent

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837 posts

Well restaurants have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. If using a 3rd party program that is against the ToS, then they have the right to refuse service to anyone. Its like when someone gets 86'd from a bar for being too rowdy. I would think that any form of government would just think "oh well, their (company's) loss of money"

RE: Windower and Other programs

# Jul 06 2005 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent

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113 posts

I can understand being refused service for being rowdy or something of that nature but this is different. People in the states win law suits for all kinds of stuff this one seems more doable if you can just find enough reason to back up your statement. I'm sure there is some lawyer out there who wouldn't mind trying his hand at it.

RE: Windower and Other programs

# Jul 06 2005 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good

__DEL__1591815775023

Sage

442 posts

Like Zeusthecat said, a company is legally allowed to refuse service to ANYone they wish, and for ANY reason, as long as it isn't an act of discrimination.

If you want to fish for 18 hours straight, that's great. You'll still respond to tells. You're not gonna stand there and keep fishing when your inventory is full. Bots are easy to pick out.

RE: Windower and Other programs

# Jul 07 2005 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent

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113 posts

Whose to say it's any more obvious? As far fetched and as much work as it would seem to be I could easily put together a program to manage my inventory, putting stuff in my mog house or on the auction house and fish all day long. As well as have tells recieved sent to my messenger @ work or my cell phone as a text message.

Look the point I am making here is why go to the effort to try and make people think you can stop it when all u can do is knock a few ppl just for more to show up.

sigh

# Jul 06 2005 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good

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32 posts

well, SE should ban Bajiita's account, since the evidence of him cheating/hacking whatever you want to call it is right there. As well as the other people in those videos. People like that **** me off.

RE: sigh

# Jul 07 2005 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent

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78 posts

first off... i don't think Bajiita is dumb enough to record his hacking abilities, and post it on the net for everyone to see. my guess is, this is not his main account, chances are he has another account in which he hacks secretly and with this account character name Bajiita is just to test out his hacks or too show them off.

RE: sigh

# Jul 09 2005 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent

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105 posts

Hasn't anyone picked up in it. SE is getting a cut on all this side action. Gil selling/3rd party SW. How'd they's guys get the code that is ever so changing?

I mean don't they keep transactions of these things? I've seen some items in peoples bazaars selling for 9999999999 ect. Why not just limit people to having 1 or 2M gil at a time. Watch the prices come down then!

It equals residual income for SE. They are Mobsters and gil sellers are their henchmen. But hey, it's just a game. A fun one, I might add.

We can dominate the game in other ways. Take the bee spathia, for example. Basic choice for someone is to either buy the sword or to use a lower one. Most people will obviouly buy the sword if it is reasonable.

A spathia sells for 2.5k normally. However a level 10 alchemist can create one using a 800 spathia and 2 beeswax.

Buy all of them and repost them for 7 or 8k.
CAN ANYONE SAY PROFIT MARGIN!!!!! Running a monopoly is much more fun than having some bot do your work.

RE: sigh

# Jul 06 2005 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good

AngusX

Sage

756 posts

Too bad we don't know what server he's on, huh?

____________________________

I think you've been smoking the Moko...
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Angus of Cerberus (retired)

RE: sigh

# Jul 06 2005 at 4:02 PM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

Yes we do, and it's Bismarck. Rustymetal, Killuminati, and Hoodlum are well-known griefers on our server. And they're *NOT* Japanese.

Booting

# Jul 06 2005 at 11:28 AM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

WOW them vidoes are kinda cool but sucks for us....it goes without saying its a non-stop battle of hacking. one min u stop it next there back. A few things SE could do, 1. Totaly stop supporting the PC version ( No way it would happen but there's a chance) FFXI for xbox is comeing out soon so that could make up the PC players think they said 500,000+ i think. Like i said dont think it could happen but never know SE does some stupied ****. 2. SE will boot the ppl doing the stuff,You gotta be retarted if u think GM's cant see what were doing, most of the time they dont really care b/c there lazy, but if its something like this where u can warp to NM's or run in the air SE will for sure track and boot um, Its all about the money people SE gona do everything they can do to stop so people will not quit.

RE: Booting

# Jul 06 2005 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent

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175 posts

I think more people play on PC then on PS2 for more then one reason. PS2 is more hackable then PC, so if they'd get rid of anything, it'd be the PS2 thus trading one console for another. Also, that still solves nothing because someone will find a way to hack it. Basically, peoples greed for power/gil in FFXI just needs to stop.

RE: Booting

# Jul 08 2005 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent

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510 posts

PS2 more hackable?! Are you insane?

The PC (Windows is what we're talking about here) is infinitely more hackable. It's rife with known exploits, has oodles of viri (including one recent one that specifically targets the FFXI client :-), and is... well... a computer (meaning you actually have access to the internals much more easily than you would a closed console).

And they wont get rid of either platform... both are very profitable. Actually, world-wide the last numbers I saw were there were many more PS2 players than PC players (not surprising, from a pure market standpoint, the PC game market is a heck of a lot smaller than the console market).

Anyway... I have nothing really to add to this thread other than my general irritation as someone with technical background reading posts like this :-)

One thing to note

# Jul 06 2005 at 11:11 AM Rating: Decent

rfolkker

Scholar

2,214 posts

The reason programs like windower break after updates like this is that it, or something similiar is used to allow users to perform hacks.

The program is literally a hook into the final Fantasy program, and once hooked, can do many things that will violate the ToC.
Now just because that program doesn't do anything doesn't mean that SE should look the other way, because it's only a matter of time before someone realizes that they can use the same methodology to hook into the Window and detect object loading, and based on object loading determine relative position per say... Hence, you now have a way of knowing exactly where an NM is based on your current position.
Or the fact that windower has a built in key hook which allows you to enter commands into a third party program, bypassing FFXI and sending commands to a program to perform any action you want while playing the game.

Though windower appears harmless, it is a stepping stone for anyone who wants to reverse engineer the game. I like it for crafting, it allowed me to look up recipes when I was playing the game on my laptop, however, I do understand that it should not work, and will miss it...

RIP Windower ;_;

____________________________

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RE: One thing to note

# Jul 06 2005 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent

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503 posts

Quote:

Though windower appears harmless, it is a stepping stone for anyone who wants to reverse engineer the game.

Technically, that is so true because it makes it so much easier to have programs run in the background which allow for packetsniffing and suchage. Not to say, that one cannot write his own program using Standard Windows APIs that will be able to hook just like the Windower and thereby use any program they want anyway. It just requires a person who knows how to work with these things.

Oh, and by the way, I don't think it is RIP Windower... Mine still works to a good degree. While I cannot literally move the Window where I want, it does not take all the dektop space, which is good, and it allows me to use my 1600/1200 desktop resolution to make the game a small box, while I position other windows around it.

All the update did with respect to the windower is it made the game have a psuedo-always-on-top option that is set by default. Take that away, and you will have a window that you can alt+tab and send it to the background. It is what happens to the Task manager if you turn on the Always-on-top option. If you alt+tab out of it, then it will still be ontop of whatever windows you are looking at. Should be simple to fix for Archbell/Azzaril since they have already written the bulk of the program.

I don't doubt that the Windower will live for a long time. As long as there is someone among the 100K+ people who play FFXI who is knowledgeable enough to hack it and nice enough to provide it to the public, Square-Enix will have a very hard time trying to suppress third-party programs. I only wish that the Windower was open source, but then it would have been to easy for Square-Enix to make sure the WIndower won't work again.

Long live hacking!

(For those who do not know what a hacker is due to ignorance, you can find an excellent definition here:Hacking. A hacker being one who gains unauthorized access without the intention of doing harm.)

And for those who would like to rate me down, I would like to note that I have no idea what the world would be like without things such as Linux, WINE, GNU, and a who slew of open source material which I do not doubt that large companies akin to Sun and M$ use. A lot of good things start as a hack.

Edited, Wed Jul 6 12:56:34 2005

RE: One thing to note

# Jul 06 2005 at 11:54 AM Rating: Default

__DEL__1594571239852

Scholar

503 posts

Double postaru! My firstaru!

Edited, Wed Jul 6 12:58:23 2005

funny

# Jul 06 2005 at 10:13 AM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

Guys should just get ps2s and use your PC for your chats. Granted Ps2 users can also use the pol features but cant do this while logged into game.
"While we make no specific official announcements regularly to this effect, we do in fact implement a variety of devices to counter such behavior with each version update, and we duly punish any and all players we find to be using such tools. In today's version update, we implemented counter-measures to address the irregular movement described above. "
no where does this mention widower or any other program it says that counter-measures have been implemented This could mearly be a way to monitor irregular movement patterns. All I am noticing is a bunch of people whining cause the playing field is being adjusted to make it equally fair for everyone.

RE: funny

# Jul 06 2005 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1592270376510

175 posts

you're an idiot. don't you know there is no firewall on the ps2 HDD making the PS2 more vulnerable to hacking. there is no security system on the ps2 to prevent hacking thusly making it easier.

RE: funny

# Jul 07 2005 at 9:01 AM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

Never said the ps2 was immune to hacking i said that you should get ps2 so you can use your pc for all those windower functions and still play your game without being viewed as a hacker. Now the Ps2 may hackable the info for this is limited. I have never heard of a ps2 botter, but granted they may exsist. The PC version has more users more tools and yes maybe a firewall. but aren't firewalls there as a protective measure for the user and thus controlled by the user? While it MAY be easier there is less info out there. Whereas any moron out there with google can quickly find 3rd party apps to phish or other schemes, scripts, ect. Hey look its a sandy taru.

windower;;

# Jul 06 2005 at 5:29 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1593967027225

18 posts

a troublesome thing for all the people who like me use the windower not for hacking the game, but to chat with friends, check mail, browse the internet during lfg time ;_;
i hope to get the fix very soon ^^

for an example...

# Jul 06 2005 at 4:15 AM Rating: Excellent

Scholar

21 posts

Right-click + save-as.

Who said BLM 1-10 was hard ?

How they steal your mobs

Need to get to the island but you fear Eldieme?

A little demo

Edited, Wed Jul 6 05:53:00 2005

RE: for an example...

# Jul 06 2005 at 10:54 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591814926144

36 posts

Is That Need to get to the island but you fear Eldieme? only for pc or ps2?

RE: for an example...

# Jul 07 2005 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1593363797152

78 posts

it is possible to hack into the Ps2 mainframe but your need HD Loader/HD Advance and windows xp. HD Loader/HD Advance reads your Ps2 hard drive when you install it in your computer, then from there you can hack away. HD Loader/HD Advance runs for about $30+, but hacking into the Ps2 is not worth it because you'll have to make,change, and update your bots from time to time, very time consuming >.>; people use AutoIt v3 program to make there bots

edit: um... i don't bot btw, i just know stuff <.<;

Edited, Thu Jul 7 15:37:45 2005

RE: for an example...

# Jul 07 2005 at 8:00 PM Rating: Good

Scholar

21 posts

Yeah, I was reading all the other posts, I didn't know it was even possible to hack on PS2. Didn't remember PS2 has an HD (only played a game once on it =P).

RE: for an example...

# Jul 06 2005 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good

Scholar

21 posts

all the known stuff like packets sniffers, scripts, etc... are, I think, only for PC.

edit: The guy on that movie is still using his hack to move like he does.

Edited, Wed Jul 6 12:14:10 2005

RE: for an example...

# Jul 06 2005 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good

__DEL__1591834702079

Sage

496 posts

Horrible and interesting at the same time.

RE: for an example...

# Jul 07 2005 at 10:06 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591812484114

Scholar

43 posts

it is cool to see but when people use it to gain unfair advantages in game it isn't

Funny

# Jul 06 2005 at 2:06 AM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1592790287386

8 posts

I can honestly say, after reading all of these posts, that not one of you knows a single thing about hacking, botting, scripting, blah, blah, etcetera, etcetera. If you do a little bit of research you will soon realize that there is not a thing that SE can do about any of this because the security flaws that allow people to do these things do not exist in the play online or FFXI software but in the windows operating system its self. About the only thing that SE can do to help stop any of this is to encrypt the information they send out to the players and change the encryption every once in a while to keep up with the people developing new hacks. This unfortunately would slow the game down further because it would need time to decrypt the information and there is enough of a problem with lag, load times, etcetera all ready.

Finlay

# Jul 06 2005 at 1:14 AM Rating: Default

__DEL__1591829387061

25 posts

We need to do something about the game. Inflasin just suck right now. It not much to take out the windower but its a start. Sadly its always gonna be smarter programmers than SE.

Sry if I misspell a lot

edit: I just finishet watching the clip where the dude warps and stuff. Thats just wicked. This is the problem of the game. Not a crappy programmer lige a windower. you can still get the information you need by using a second computer and have it in a network. ******* cheater.

Edited, Wed Jul 6 02:35:33 2005

windower

# Jul 05 2005 at 11:49 PM Rating: Default

__DEL__1592269215971

Scholar

124 posts

Look ppl. theres no grey area as i see it. No middle of the rode when it comes to the ToC.

The fact is, running a windower is not allowed. no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

I agree that when used for IMing and info it's fun and is a helpfull tool, but none the less its a tool that SE has not aproved.

Windowers are the gateway to all the hacks and third party attacks. If SE were to make its own version of a windower to work on Windows it would be hacked too.

As far as i see it, a rule is a rule no matter how crapy it is. To bat around how minor a program like a windower is is just what the hacks love to hear for a windower is the basis on wich thay form there attacks.

just my 2 gil. :)

RE: windower

# Jul 06 2005 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591835670006

Scholar

230 posts

Quote:

Windowers are the gateway to all the hacks and third party attacks.

Too true. But I promise not to use my Windower for evil!

The simple fact is, play with windower for a week, then try to go back to fullscreen - youll want to kill yourself over the fact that you can see pixels and youll break your "," key trying to mash it in just to try and zoom out because youll feel uncomfortably close to your toon. /dies

wow

# Jul 05 2005 at 10:01 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591813271286

Scholar

103 posts

I just got done watching some vids of japanese player flying around, runing faster then you should, and one even teleporting back and forth while resting then killing a IT++ mob for high exp with no trouble at all. Even one fly from one island to another then runing around under-water!!

I hope SE gets this stopped, cool to watch, but its not ment to be a part of the game.

RE: wow

# Jul 06 2005 at 4:57 AM Rating: Decent

Scholar

21 posts

I posted the links of these.

Windower: X

# Jul 05 2005 at 9:51 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591806435827

Scholar

76 posts

I want my Windower back. I like talking to my friends on AIM, reading emails, or other random nonsense while I'm LFG or bazaaring on a mule.

How I see it.

# Jul 05 2005 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591844120872

Scholar

20 posts

This is how I see it. If the game is made with actual cheat codes then by all means use them. There in the game for you to use and have fun with. <(By the way I don't know of any online games with integrated cheats)> But when you start hacking the games system and ILLEGILY cheating, thats when you cross the line. By using hacks/bots/autos/macs your destroying the game for the people who are trying to play the game fairly and actually challenge themselves and the rest of the game. Thats just how I see it.

NM stealing

# Jul 05 2005 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591806778284

47 posts

This was being us by gil sellers to istantly warp to NMs just before they spawned on Fairy . I guess a BST in my LS was capming an NM in Castle oztroja this morning when gil sellers warped to the spawn point just as the NM was spawning . I have no idea how they knew it was spawning , unless they have another 3rd PT program that reads the script that tells your computer to pull up the info for it . Anyway , she called a GM and not long after , they had this update .

I don't understand why S/E doesn't allow windowers , since it's a tool they should have installed into the program , so we can use our computers while LFP or just waiting for groups to form up for other activities . Windower is a harmless program and unlike botting , warping , and script readfing programs , that give gilsellers/gilfarmers advantages over others .

RE: NM stealing

# Jul 05 2005 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591821169963

Scholar

131 posts

I do beleive that general program is called "packet sniffer"...they use this program to read the script to find out exactly when the NM will spawn...

I know, on asura, atleast 4 people use this...whilst camping Stroper Chyme, Skygirl, dkll, ZHZ, and oldman use this. They use Flee 10 seconds before the NM spawns to get to its EXACT location of where it spawns...(I'm 0/34 on stroper...bah)

Edited, Tue Jul 5 22:47:19 2005

RE: NM stealing

# Jul 05 2005 at 10:04 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591837707472

10 posts

Anyone who has camped Stroper Chyme a lot or has done any research on him knows that he is a timed respawn. I camp him and know when to flee because its the same time inbetween spawns every time. And the exact location thing, thats prolly some software to know where, or they camp Chyme so much that they find a trend in his spawn points. I myself find trends sometimes but i don't use any illegal software. I've camped and claimed Chyme 200+ times against gil sellers so I personally don't think that they use anything illegal. But this is from my experience Leviathan so other servers could be different.

RE: NM stealing

# Jul 05 2005 at 11:54 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1593363797152

78 posts

Yes... Stroper Chyme, and alot of other Nm's are placeholder spawns, this is why people know to use flee and stuff at the exsact time, but this only works for placeholder spawns. for me i used this method to get Thief's Knife, between Tonberry Pursuer & Sozu Rogberry the spawn time is exactly 16mins so i use flee macro 10sec before the next pop and hit the steal macro IF Sozu Rogberry pops in the room. now, i don't know if the Nm is going to pop at the end of the 16min interval but i do know one or the other will pop.

this is a little off the topic but for the thf/nin out there trying to camp this guy don't get discourage when you see people with voke... infact going as a thf/nin to camp Rogberry is the best job you can go as. all you need is the exact pop time add 16min and minus 10sec from the next pop and you know when to hit flee macro, also use

/targetnpc
/ja "Steal" <t>

to get claim. i have out claimed everyone with voke to get claim ALL THE TIME!, when i was camping Rogberry only lost claim to some guy (forgot name) because he bots, also i had japanese competitors and still was able to get claim. like i said my fellow thieves don't get discourage when you see a voker in the room.

RE: NM stealing

# Jul 05 2005 at 9:30 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591847928472

3 posts

Gilsellers and cheaters alike all make many games completely irritating for those of us who actually bought the game to have fun. I've seen this happen multiple times on many other MMORPGs. I have a friend that decides he needed a levelling bot for one of his MMORPGs so that he could get to max level while he was at work, taking the experience and hard work out of the game. People like this need to stick to Mario Brothers or Leisure Suit Larry

RE: NM stealing

# Jul 05 2005 at 9:54 PM Rating: Good

__DEL__1591812800491

Scholar

817 posts

1. Hey I like Mario Bros!!!

2. How do you warp to a location??? That's a new one for me.

3. Packet sniffer + 2 second US lag = B-A-H

blah

# Jul 05 2005 at 9:11 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1592762660993

Scholar

232 posts

those dang SE boys caughts me again! XD J/K and for some reason I find that this is hilarious, because of all the illegal account selling and gil selling as such

cheating and anti-cheats

# Jul 05 2005 at 9:08 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591835779253

20 posts

there's nothing we can do, the war goes on between cheats, and anti-cheats...
it will never end