Resource Turnover and Over and Over

Many of you have discovered the bane that is resource turnover. Some of you have screamed, cried, and pouted at the fact that your beloved resources have disappeared for what seems like forever! Have no fear, a similar resource is near... or at least says Raph.
    RESOURCE TURNOVER - JULY 7, 2003 I've seen a lot of confusion on this issue, so I thought I'd post a little something on how and why resources turn over so that everyone knows how this works. Resources are not infinite. They do run out, and for any given resource, it takes between 5 and 8 days or so. Resources come classified into types, as you know, and when a resource expires, we generate a fresh resource of that type. After a resource runs out, there might be a period of scarcity before a new resource of that type is discovered. New resources might not be of the same quality as the old one. In other words, at any given time, you need to keep an eye on the resource market and make sure that you know what's out there and how available it is. There is room in the system to do a bit of market speculation on old resource types that are no longer available. When you make a manufacturing schematic, it calls for a precise recipe. That means that it calls for exactly the type of resource that was originally used to make that schematic. Resources running out will therefore result in manufacturing schematics becoming obsolete. This creates a demand for new experimentation and manufacturing schematics, of course, as well as fueling a market for old resources. Over time, we expect to see some resource types that expired long ago but haven't been fully used up become especially valuable commodities. Resource turnover also, of course, encourages an ongoing need for exploration to find new veins or hot spots for new materials. Now, I know many of you are concerned about the turnover gating you. The first thing to know is that at higher levels, it is assumed that you will in fact need to travel or do interplanetary commerce in order to obtain the resources you want. You should also be aware that periods of scarcity are built into the game intentionally. That said, we do have safeguards in place to make sure that people are not completely gated for any length of time. So here's a bit of info from the designer working on the crafting system, so that you can get a sense of the numbers here: Minerals are always the things we hear about people not being able to harvest, so here's some numbers pulled from the current Resource Tree setup file. There will always be between 16 to 70 types of mineral resources in the galaxy, with between 16 to 210 pools of these resources spread among the 10 planets. Of the various metals, There will always be at least 2 types of steel, with each type existing on at least 8 of the 10 planets. (you could have up to 20 types) There will always be at least 2 types of iron, with each type existing on at least 2 of the 10 planets. (you could have up to 20 types, with up to 3 planets per type) There will always be at least 2 types of aluminum, with each type existing on at least 8 of the 10 planets. (you could have up to 12 types) There will always be at least 2 types of copper, with each type existing on at least 8 of the 10 planets. (you could have up to 18 types) Of the various ores, There will always be at least 1 type of Extrusive Igneous ore, with each type existing on at least 1 of the 10 planets. (you could have up to 10 types, with up to 3 planets per type) There will always be at least 1 type of Intrusive Igneous ore, with each type existing on at least 1 of the 10 planets. (you could have up to 10 types, with up to 3 planets per type) There will always be at least 1 type of Carbonate Sedimentary ore, with each type existing on at least 8 of the 10 planets. (you could have up to 10 types) There will always be at least 1 type of Siliclastic Sedimentary ore, with each type existing on at least 8 of the 10 planets. (you could have up to 8 types) Of the various gemstones, There will always be at least 1 type of Amorphous gemstone, with each type existing on at least 1 of the 10 planets. (you could have up to 10 types) There will always be at least 1 type of Crystalline gemstone, with each type existing on at least 1 of the 10 planets. (you could have up to 8 types) And that's a quick summary of the mineral portion of the resource tree. Hopefully, that will give people a little bit better feel for why things behave the way they do. Also, another thing players ask about a lot is polymer resource. Without breaking down the rest of the chemical portion of the tree... There will always be at least 2 types of polymer, with each type existing on at least 8 of the 10 planets. (you could have up to 5 types) So there you have it. Hope this clarifies things for people! -Raph Koster, Creative Director
Thanks to Snarlfang for bringing this to our attention on the message boards.

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SOE and they lie's
# Jul 19 2003 at 7:36 AM Rating: Default
"There will always be at least 2 types of aluminum, with each type existing on at least 8 of the 10 planets. (you could have up to 12 types)

There will always be at least 2 types of copper, with each type existing on at least 8 of the 10 planets. (you could have up to 18 types)"

yeah yeah, you just have to wait and wait and wait, on bloodfin/naboo we waited 48 hours on copper and aluminum
So much glalaxy... so little resources
# Jul 16 2003 at 6:28 PM Rating: Default
I'm just thinking that for a few thousand characters to delpete an etire galaxy of resources a little off.

I do like the idea of the turnover of items. I just hope that they turnover in cycles of months rather than days.

-Anonymous as I have no identity yet.

seeing change
# Jul 11 2003 at 1:18 PM Rating: Default
Well, I've seen my first 'rollover' on Sunrunner, Talus, Dearic.. One of the good steels just went away from the location near town and was replaced by a different steel.. Not such a big deal this time cause the new steel is a tad better than the old, and is just as close to town..

The real downer for me is, now I have to redo all the data I was compiling on different materials.. I have it all squished together on back to back pages.. now I have to put all that info in a much more spread out fashion to allow for the new materials..

Though, I'm still confused on one point.. When a mineral (material) 'rotates out', will that name ever be used again? as the same 'type' of material (freddy1 is steel of med qual, goes away.. comes back.. could we see fredd1 is gem? or freddy1 is steel excellent qual? that would cause some serious problems..).. I ask because if names are reused as different qual materials or different types all together and names are pointless once that material rotates out, then there is no point in keeping an information database on these things.. just have to keep a current listing of what's good, change it as materials go out and new ones come in.. But, if we will see the same thing in the future (potentially) or on a different planet, I'll have to keep a running list..
mining etc
# Jul 10 2003 at 4:30 PM Rating: Default
The frustration of this system just about balances with the fun factor of searching for new materials and making things with them. I suppose it will probably still get a few tweaks but as a crafter of droids I think its ok.

--Dolomite
RE: THE POOR CRAFTSMAN
# Jul 08 2003 at 4:36 PM Rating: Decent
The Gentleman is correct when he says that this causes crafting to be less profitable, and he is correct that, in the long-term, prices for goods will rise as the supply tightens. Markets, the functions of supply and demand demand this.

Grizzard Guns - Trust me on this: take the Gun, leave the Cannoli...
the Pour Craftsman
# Jul 08 2003 at 3:21 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
Someone mentioned it costing miners more credits? Well, you can't run a mine/harvester with less than 'full' funding now, and if a harvester is 'fully funded' you can 'pick it up' and move it... so, now I don't see that as being an issue.. Even so, that little extra money to fix it up to move it costs less than building a new one, doesn't it?


Take my Med. mine; I have to have it at 3000 Creed. To pick it up and move it, when I place it down I lose ALL of the credits. Times that buy all the harvests and I get bent over ever other day if I want the best supply! So here’s my calc 2 med harvesters 3K each 1 med chem. 3k 1 small gas 1.5K 1 small chem. 1.5k and my 2 solar power 3K each, that adds up to 18K to move, and the items I need have been changer ever other day or less! So that adds up fast. My other problem being I sell my armor way cheap. Like 3kPP on Flurry for mabari Tunic! So I hope ppl are going to understand when Crafters are going to Start charging threw the nose for armor and weapons.
I also find this sick because a Melee class can go do missions all day long and earn way more money then us crafters with little out of pocket expense! It’s not that i'm completely greedy but why do crafters craft? Most of us do it for the money. But if I could go kill for more money it makes me (and a few others I half talked to) wonder why they are still crafting. Soon you may see no crafters or ones that charge 1000 times the amount of supplies it takes to make an item, why you ask..Becuase they can now no one else wants to do it.
RE: the Pour Craftsman
# Jul 09 2003 at 3:37 PM Rating: Decent
don't those "3kPP on Flurry for mabari Tunic" count as "out of pocket expense"? There R way too many crafters per melleer in the game ATM that's Y stuff gets so cheap. It will balance in time.
I have to agree that armorsmith's life is harder then it should be because SOE tryed to do that antitwink trick when armor or no armor is not that much different so a lot of ppl just don't use armor at all. May be this should have been done the way weaps usage is limited -- by certs & uber (high lvl cert) armor should do less dmg to user's pools not more as is or something like that. Hard to say.
eh.. depends..
# Jul 08 2003 at 3:02 PM Rating: Default
In theory this is a good idea.. I have to admit, the more realism in this kind of game the better..

However.. to have resources cycle too quickly will cause undue frustration (5 RL days is what, a month or so in game? common, mines can last for decades).. Then, to make a perfectly good schematic 'useless' because 'Omniium steel' is not the same the next time it 'gets descovered'? that's just crank.. So it's not around for a long time, takes 2 or 3 months RL time before it is found on a different planet.. ok, for all that time that schematic is put on a shelf and new design work would have been needed, but what if that particular schematic was 'uber'? Not fair or reasonable to presume no resource in the 'Galaxy' couldn't ever be almost 'exact'.. especially if it has the same name.. *shrug*

Someone mentioned it costing miners more credits? Well, you can't run a mine/harvester with less than 'full' funding now, and if a harvester is 'fully funded' you can 'pick it up' and move it.. so, now I don't see that as being an issue.. Even so, that little extra money to fix it up to move it costs less than building a new one, doesn't it?

I understand the frustration of the guy with a huge strip-mining operation going on around his house.. but yeah, you will exploit all the resources eventually and have to move the equipment.. Just be glad that the land doesn't physically change to reflect the huge burden on it from heavy mining ;)

Personally, I like the idea.. it's tedious to make sure you have the 'best' resources for what you are doing, but really.. isn't that part of the 'job'? Various planets SHOULD have differing resources, that's how the real Universe works :) Though, I'd like to see at least one type of each resource be 'extra special' on each planet.. give each planet a 'good' reason for crafters to visit..
It has to be this way.
# Jul 08 2003 at 2:52 PM Rating: Decent
The resources have to expire, or else people who found the 90 percent uber mineral spots during the first week would be the only people to have harvesters over the hotspots. The only way to guarantee every player a chance to put a harvester on a really sweet spot is to keep removing old ones and creating new ones.

Does anyone know if a resource will ever return? The dev post is ambiguous but implies that they never come back.
New Sun!
# Jul 08 2003 at 2:12 PM Rating: Default
OMG they changed the solar power on naboo! what did we get a new sun?????
Minerals
# Jul 08 2003 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
I think the system cycling minerals is a good thing - it makes the game more interesting and keeps a couple of players from monopolizing a good area forever...

However, I think it would be better for the names and stats of the spicific minerals to stay the same. In this senario, the minerals would appear and dissappear, but mineral Khito is always mineral Khito and has the same stats. It would be a little less realistic, but the schematics would still work. Either that, or let crafters refine mined minerals like they can in real life to get a specific spec of building material.

Anyway, that's just my two francs,
-Scott Grizzard

Grizzard Guns - You can't Shoot People with the Cannoli...
Mines
# Jul 08 2003 at 1:19 PM Rating: Default
You all do relize mines IRL last more then just a few days, IRL they last atleast a few years.
More realistic
# Jul 08 2003 at 12:49 PM Rating: Default
Isn't this just closer to reality?

How many mines in RL do you know of that have been in operation for the last 200+ years, mining a seemingly unending supply of a single type of resource?

If that were true, I'd be eating off of sapphire plates with diamond cutlery... sweet...

/sigh
# Jul 08 2003 at 12:09 PM Rating: Default
It's called reality...I mean come on! Do you think miners who find gold can just mine forever and never move??

This has been a planed game mechanic for YEARS by the way, not just those in beta knew about it...and it is required for the player economy to work.

Wait till you get ahold of a rare metal that is super-strong and mine it all for yourself...then it is gone and NO ONE can find it. Suddenly your the only one in the galaxy with it, and you name your price. ;)

Then you will see how great the system is! :D Give it a chance guys, it'll work.
Mineral Shifting
# Jul 08 2003 at 11:42 AM Rating: Default
I think that its fine.. makes the game more interesting.. All you wimps get another profession! LOL

Besides.. imagine if they were allways there.. never shifted.. Then a website would just map out were all the resources were and it would be soooo boring.

peace
damn
# Jul 08 2003 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
I quit my business.

SOE Is ******** us tradesmen over
Mining woes
# Jul 08 2003 at 11:14 AM Rating: Default
This really screws over both miners and Architects, reason: Miners have to pull up there mines to go find better supply of resources thus costing them more credits, this in turn makes them less likely to want to buy the bigger mines because they can usually make there own and spread them out so they don’t have to pull them up as often. I understand that resources are not meant to last forever but at least make them last a month or so...I currently own 2 med mines, 1 med chem., 2 solar, 1 small gas and 1 small chem., all right next to my house. I planted all of them in a spot that had decent recourses all together, now i'm forced to pick up and move to make them worth what they cost me each day to run. On top of that they can't mine nearly as fast as what someone /afk mining can do. I on top of all this the stuff you can get today on a planet will be gone tomorrow killing that really Uber Schematic you made of that nice armor now you have to make many more crap pieces just to get a decent replacement!
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