Just a warning to anyone who logs in the Outpost.
Friday evening, I went logging in the outpost. The only other people there were Shash and Shelm, two hume females, anon. I didn't pay them any mind, avoiding LPs that they got to first, killing Orcs and bats on the way since I was also leveling THF and farming crystals.
At one point, Shelm was resting and I healed her. No thank you in response. Oh well. Went about my business.
As I started to focus more on logging, more than once, one of them would steal a spot from me when I was more than obviously standing in front of it, already swinging my hatchet. I asked politely if they had seen me standing there. No response.
The only thing one of them ever said that night was "["
Saturday afternoon, I returned to the outpost to find them still there. I started to watch them more closely and asked others logging in the area if they were having the same experience. They were. I started to auto follow them. It was amazing. They could spot LPs that weren't even on my radar.
The bot factor started to make itself obvious when they both started following roughly the same path, arriving at LPs within seconds of each other. And the only words ever spoken: "["
So please report them to a GM if you see them in the Outpost. I ended up leaving not long after yesterday because it was so frustrating trying to race them to every spot while avoiding aggro.
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- Bot warning: Shash & Shelm in Ghelspa Outpost
Bot warning: Shash & Shelm in Ghelspa OutpostFollow
This does not make them bots, for the record.
When I was logging in Ghelsba, I'm fairly sure I would've looked exactly like these two. Check your case?
/anon. After my first trip, I went /anon every time. I had the ability to Raise and got pestered for it constantly. (Yes, even in Ghelsba, people can't figure out that - at level 7 - it's quicker to respawn.)
No thanks for healing. Unless I was actually in danger from something, I probably wouldn't have said anything, either.
Stealing logging points. This is iffy. I would occasionally "steal" the points, yes. If someone was swinging more than once, it was holding up the spawn of other points. People who logged without field gear would take 2-3 times as long to log a single point. This is one of the reasons I quit logging: I don't think of it as stealing a logging point, but so many people do that it seemed easier/more polite for me to just stop logging.
Only thing ever said was [. Not really making much of a case. If they said [ repeatedly - i.e., they said it every 5 minutes like clockwork, or every time they went to swing their hatchet - this might mean something. As it is, it probably means someone hit the wrong button. A bot would be less likely to say a single random thing and never repeat it.
Still there on Saturday afternoon. Well, that's not much of a case, either. Friday evening to Saturday afternoon isn't that much of a stretch. Japanese playing time is very often over-night for Americans, also, so they could just have been Japanese players who decided to make some money. Now, if they were there Friday night until say Monday morning without ever stopping, I could see that being justification.
Following the same path. If they were group-logging, this should be no surprise. Even if they weren't, it's not uncommon for loggers to get on the same pattern/wave-length. I often found myself seeming to follow other loggers as we got into the same routine. Ghelsba is a small area; it's easy to appear to follow the same path.
Seeing points you weren't. Again, once you get to where you log a lot at Ghelsba, this isn't that weird. You can target logging points from about 3/4 of the way across the area from them.
It's all a matter of getting used to logging in Ghelsba. If you do it enough, it's probably really easy to look like a bot when you aren't. By this criteria, I definitely looked like a bot.
When I was logging in Ghelsba, I'm fairly sure I would've looked exactly like these two. Check your case?
/anon. After my first trip, I went /anon every time. I had the ability to Raise and got pestered for it constantly. (Yes, even in Ghelsba, people can't figure out that - at level 7 - it's quicker to respawn.)
No thanks for healing. Unless I was actually in danger from something, I probably wouldn't have said anything, either.
Stealing logging points. This is iffy. I would occasionally "steal" the points, yes. If someone was swinging more than once, it was holding up the spawn of other points. People who logged without field gear would take 2-3 times as long to log a single point. This is one of the reasons I quit logging: I don't think of it as stealing a logging point, but so many people do that it seemed easier/more polite for me to just stop logging.
Only thing ever said was [. Not really making much of a case. If they said [ repeatedly - i.e., they said it every 5 minutes like clockwork, or every time they went to swing their hatchet - this might mean something. As it is, it probably means someone hit the wrong button. A bot would be less likely to say a single random thing and never repeat it.
Still there on Saturday afternoon. Well, that's not much of a case, either. Friday evening to Saturday afternoon isn't that much of a stretch. Japanese playing time is very often over-night for Americans, also, so they could just have been Japanese players who decided to make some money. Now, if they were there Friday night until say Monday morning without ever stopping, I could see that being justification.
Following the same path. If they were group-logging, this should be no surprise. Even if they weren't, it's not uncommon for loggers to get on the same pattern/wave-length. I often found myself seeming to follow other loggers as we got into the same routine. Ghelsba is a small area; it's easy to appear to follow the same path.
Seeing points you weren't. Again, once you get to where you log a lot at Ghelsba, this isn't that weird. You can target logging points from about 3/4 of the way across the area from them.
It's all a matter of getting used to logging in Ghelsba. If you do it enough, it's probably really easy to look like a bot when you aren't. By this criteria, I definitely looked like a bot.
I log there quite often, actually, so I'm aware of the things you are saying and took it all into consideration when I reported them as possible (sorry, should have said that in my post).
/anon. After my first trip, I went /anon every time. I had the ability to Raise and got pestered for it constantly. (Yes, even in Ghelsba, people can't figure out that - at level 7 - it's quicker to respawn.)
No concern about the anon part. I'm anon most of the time now too. Even when I'm a lil lvl 9 THF.
No thanks for healing. Unless I was actually in danger from something, I probably wouldn't have said anything, either.
That didn't bother me either or make me think they were bots. Was just part of the details^^
Stealing logging points. This is iffy. I would occasionally "steal" the points, yes. If someone was swinging more than once, it was holding up the spawn of other points. People who logged without field gear would take 2-3 times as long to log a single point. This is one of the reasons I quit logging: I don't think of it as stealing a logging point, but so many people do that it seemed easier/more polite for me to just stop logging.
I have field gear. And I understand that it's not really stealing. But common courtesy says if I'm standing here and you arrive 2 seconds later without the blame of lag, that you be polite about it. Personally, if I see someone going to the same spot I'm targeting, I leave it be. There are others. I'm not going to push past you on the bus if you have to take a moment to get your change out. I'm not going to move in on your LP if you don't get anything on the first swing. /shrug
Only thing ever said was [. Not really making much of a case. If they said [ repeatedly - i.e., they said it every 5 minutes like clockwork, or every time they went to swing their hatchet - this might mean something.
I didn't hang out to establish the "[" pattern. It might not have been repeating every 5 minutes like clockwork. But that doesn't mean it wasn't repeated at some interval like clockwork.
Still there on Saturday afternoon. Now, if they were there Friday night until say Monday morning without ever stopping, I could see that being justification.
Agreed. I did a /sea all on one of them last night and they were still there. However they did take the time to get in to Sandy to sell their stuff at some point.
Following the same path. If they were group-logging, this should be no surprise. Even if they weren't, it's not uncommon for loggers to get on the same pattern/wave-length.
Understood. But constantly? And if you see a logger directly in front of you moving to a point, you would continue heading straight for it and go ahead and log it? If group logging, what purpose does it serve to constantly run to the same point?
Seeing points you weren't. I was on autofollow when I checked this, right on top of them. I couldn't target what they saw. But they very distinctly both headed to the same spot at the same moment.
Anyway, I reported them as possible bots. If they aren't bots so be it.
[ETA] Posted this in my LS msg board and am getting reports of the same. Apparently it's been going on for the past week or so. They are apparently lvl 12 and 13 and occasionally someone will bring them a nice Orcish Grunt to play with.
Edited, Mon Sep 20 12:49:02 2004 by Nightxade
/anon. After my first trip, I went /anon every time. I had the ability to Raise and got pestered for it constantly. (Yes, even in Ghelsba, people can't figure out that - at level 7 - it's quicker to respawn.)
No concern about the anon part. I'm anon most of the time now too. Even when I'm a lil lvl 9 THF.
No thanks for healing. Unless I was actually in danger from something, I probably wouldn't have said anything, either.
That didn't bother me either or make me think they were bots. Was just part of the details^^
Stealing logging points. This is iffy. I would occasionally "steal" the points, yes. If someone was swinging more than once, it was holding up the spawn of other points. People who logged without field gear would take 2-3 times as long to log a single point. This is one of the reasons I quit logging: I don't think of it as stealing a logging point, but so many people do that it seemed easier/more polite for me to just stop logging.
I have field gear. And I understand that it's not really stealing. But common courtesy says if I'm standing here and you arrive 2 seconds later without the blame of lag, that you be polite about it. Personally, if I see someone going to the same spot I'm targeting, I leave it be. There are others. I'm not going to push past you on the bus if you have to take a moment to get your change out. I'm not going to move in on your LP if you don't get anything on the first swing. /shrug
Only thing ever said was [. Not really making much of a case. If they said [ repeatedly - i.e., they said it every 5 minutes like clockwork, or every time they went to swing their hatchet - this might mean something.
I didn't hang out to establish the "[" pattern. It might not have been repeating every 5 minutes like clockwork. But that doesn't mean it wasn't repeated at some interval like clockwork.
Still there on Saturday afternoon. Now, if they were there Friday night until say Monday morning without ever stopping, I could see that being justification.
Agreed. I did a /sea all on one of them last night and they were still there. However they did take the time to get in to Sandy to sell their stuff at some point.
Following the same path. If they were group-logging, this should be no surprise. Even if they weren't, it's not uncommon for loggers to get on the same pattern/wave-length.
Understood. But constantly? And if you see a logger directly in front of you moving to a point, you would continue heading straight for it and go ahead and log it? If group logging, what purpose does it serve to constantly run to the same point?
Seeing points you weren't. I was on autofollow when I checked this, right on top of them. I couldn't target what they saw. But they very distinctly both headed to the same spot at the same moment.
Anyway, I reported them as possible bots. If they aren't bots so be it.
[ETA] Posted this in my LS msg board and am getting reports of the same. Apparently it's been going on for the past week or so. They are apparently lvl 12 and 13 and occasionally someone will bring them a nice Orcish Grunt to play with.
Edited, Mon Sep 20 12:49:02 2004 by Nightxade
HAHA! That was ME!!! I was getting mad at those to, Shelm isnt a bot, i cured her and she said thanks, and Shash? I think is, they are annoyingly taking LP's and when i would arrive at one, they would come 2 seconds later, at some points i would have it, then it would dissapear outta nowhere. Happened at least ten times, so i got frustrated and trained grunts and warped out. I was getting pissed, im crafting and they are botting? not cool. Neways they pissed me off to the point that i didnt log anymore,.
It would seem to me that maybe you could steal a point from them a few times and if they ***** at you then perhaps you know they are real. If not I guess you could take advantage of the fact that they are bots and run from point to point and follow them and use their points. Not sure how effective it would be but Im sure it would slow things down for them a bit.
I havent logged in awhile, but when I go back I'll be on the lookout for these two...Ive heard the names from an LS member too...my fix for ppl like this, or more the situation actually, is to ask ppl what they are loking for...and offer them those logs if Im not using them (except elm of course) and they usually give me what they would normally toss if I need it.
If its real bad with ppl bogarting your LP's, I then /autofollow them and jump on their LP's...flee makes it even easier...If it gets really out of control, I will not hesitate to introduce low level loggers with no tact to the Warcheif...Hide makes that even easier, as I dont have to warp...I can just go about logging and watch the Warcheif go to town.
Also, I refrain from using the term "stealing" for LP's...since you cannot "claim" a LP like you can a mob, I do think its fair game...but I have logged under both scenario's...Loggers who respect others spots and then all out every logger for themself...and its always a better turnout when everyone is on the same page. So I will let it slide if done once or twice, but if someone is out there straight cutting throats, they better be a higher level than 12-13, thats fo damm sure :P
If its real bad with ppl bogarting your LP's, I then /autofollow them and jump on their LP's...flee makes it even easier...If it gets really out of control, I will not hesitate to introduce low level loggers with no tact to the Warcheif...Hide makes that even easier, as I dont have to warp...I can just go about logging and watch the Warcheif go to town.
Also, I refrain from using the term "stealing" for LP's...since you cannot "claim" a LP like you can a mob, I do think its fair game...but I have logged under both scenario's...Loggers who respect others spots and then all out every logger for themself...and its always a better turnout when everyone is on the same page. So I will let it slide if done once or twice, but if someone is out there straight cutting throats, they better be a higher level than 12-13, thats fo damm sure :P
Quote:
I will not hesitate to introduce low level loggers with no tact to the Warcheif...
Because breaking the EULA and training on to people?
Always the way to deal with a problem.
If they aren't bots, you're going to be the recipient of a few GM calls, I imagine.
I've seen them too, they aren't bots, as they thanked me for saving them from a train of orcs someone was kind enough to drop on them....
I know that training is a naughty thing to do to the lower level types on a map, but sometimes it's accidental. good form indicates that you try and warn people as soon as you can, like in kazham or the dunes...
many is the time i've been running for my life with a few gobs on my sexy elvaan *** in the dunes, and i've always tried to /shout warnings to clear the zone.
though, it is amusing to make some noobs get a train for you... i remember i was farming necklaces in giddeus and a party of 8-11's yelled at me and threatened to drop a train on me so i told them to do it... granted i'm a level 24 ranger so they didn't provide me much of a challenge... ^_^;
I know that training is a naughty thing to do to the lower level types on a map, but sometimes it's accidental. good form indicates that you try and warn people as soon as you can, like in kazham or the dunes...
many is the time i've been running for my life with a few gobs on my sexy elvaan *** in the dunes, and i've always tried to /shout warnings to clear the zone.
though, it is amusing to make some noobs get a train for you... i remember i was farming necklaces in giddeus and a party of 8-11's yelled at me and threatened to drop a train on me so i told them to do it... granted i'm a level 24 ranger so they didn't provide me much of a challenge... ^_^;
They are not bots, but they are their all the time. However, for all you crafters out there, one of them(can't remember which)will give you any log for free except Elms. They did this for me and other LS members who log there. They appear to be Elm farmers only. They will steal your LP's and I have seen them there constantly for the last month.
3 posts
I see, much confusion with this topic. I hate when them people steal your lodging points. (even though i never lodge) I am a miner myself. There happens to be either Chinese, Mexican, or different foriegners. There are 4 of them and they are all stealing my mining points! Chinagril, Chinaboy, and 2 other weird names. If you're a miner watch out for these dudes. I call them scavengers for some reason. anyways they **** me off! lol that is all.
Quote:
If they aren't bots, you're going to be the recipient of a few GM calls, I imagine.
I almost NEED to get banned from this game so I can resume my life which has been on hold since I bought this frikkin soul vacuum...I think Im sub-conscien...**** it, I aint even gonna try and spell that right after a 12 hour workday...anyways, IMO, if you are spending all your time logging in ghelsba for the past month, your either a bot or an IGE employee, which is worse.
Im willing to go down for the cause!
that soul vacuum statement reminded me of precious roys black hole vacuum...with the fresh pine scent
...
I spent almost a month straight logging at one point. It was a way to make some quick money, and I was leveling up my Woodworking skill.
Contrary to popular belief, some people actually like doing things in the game other than making XP.
I spent almost a month straight logging at one point. It was a way to make some quick money, and I was leveling up my Woodworking skill.
Contrary to popular belief, some people actually like doing things in the game other than making XP.
Anybody notice their names?
Shash
Shelm
Sh ash \
Sh elm -> lumber
Gilfarmers? Most likely. This goes with the Tans in Zhi'Tah
Tanffxi#
Tan ffxi b, c, d, f -- always in the sanctuary
It's a pretty popular belief that groups of players with similar names leveling together are chinese gilfarmers. There's no reason to believe this isn't a possibility, I highly doubt they are bots -- I do believe they COULD be shifted characters.
Edit: Didn't even notice the topic starter :D Sup Nightxade.
Edited, Wed Sep 22 04:24:12 2004 by RustyCaps
Shash
Shelm
Sh ash \
Sh elm -> lumber
Gilfarmers? Most likely. This goes with the Tans in Zhi'Tah
Tanffxi#
Tan ffxi b, c, d, f -- always in the sanctuary
It's a pretty popular belief that groups of players with similar names leveling together are chinese gilfarmers. There's no reason to believe this isn't a possibility, I highly doubt they are bots -- I do believe they COULD be shifted characters.
Edit: Didn't even notice the topic starter :D Sup Nightxade.
Edited, Wed Sep 22 04:24:12 2004 by RustyCaps
Quote:
...
I spent almost a month straight logging at one point. It was a way to make some quick money, and I was leveling up my Woodworking skill.
Contrary to popular belief, some people actually like doing things in the game other than making XP.
I spent almost a month straight logging at one point. It was a way to make some quick money, and I was leveling up my Woodworking skill.
Contrary to popular belief, some people actually like doing things in the game other than making XP.
not for nothing, but you come across as pretty uptight, especially for someone with Chester as their avatar :P
So evidence appears to be that they are not bots, just people (or one person with two characters... one of whom is a program? hmmm? *conspiracy theory music plays*) who lack courtesy.
And I did autofollow and take logging points from Shash and Shelm for a bit before getting frustrated with it (I was only lvl 11 at the time so I still got aggro). You'd think they would have said something to me though. I'd be pretty damn annoyed with someone autofollowing me for my points.
Have seen Chinagril and Chinaboy in the mines as well.
And I did autofollow and take logging points from Shash and Shelm for a bit before getting frustrated with it (I was only lvl 11 at the time so I still got aggro). You'd think they would have said something to me though. I'd be pretty damn annoyed with someone autofollowing me for my points.
Have seen Chinagril and Chinaboy in the mines as well.
people like to do things more than xp?...
helping other players... check
missions/quests... check
nm, hnm, god hunting, farming gil (for personal use)... check
Spending ~31 days logging 24/7?... |hmmm.| |Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.| |/no| |fun.|
It's my opinion that if you are in any single area for 24hours 7 days a week then you are a gil farmer or a bot. Either of which should result in the character being deleted and the credit card used banned. You can't tell me that they can't prove it either cause I know they can. They just have to look at the admin logs and look at these criteria.
Do these characters actually lvl at all?
Do these characters give large 'donations' to other players for 'free'?
Do these characters have anything rare/ex? or turned in rare/ex quest items?
I know they can find all those questions out in admin logs and if the answer are 'no, yes, no, no' then they are a gil farmer/bot and are in violation of the EULA. Consequences being character deletion and credit card banned. This is pretty simple no? it isn't rocket science; just common programming every MMORG has. So the question is, why hasn't Sonii done anything?
helping other players... check
missions/quests... check
nm, hnm, god hunting, farming gil (for personal use)... check
Spending ~31 days logging 24/7?... |hmmm.| |Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.| |/no| |fun.|
It's my opinion that if you are in any single area for 24hours 7 days a week then you are a gil farmer or a bot. Either of which should result in the character being deleted and the credit card used banned. You can't tell me that they can't prove it either cause I know they can. They just have to look at the admin logs and look at these criteria.
Do these characters actually lvl at all?
Do these characters give large 'donations' to other players for 'free'?
Do these characters have anything rare/ex? or turned in rare/ex quest items?
I know they can find all those questions out in admin logs and if the answer are 'no, yes, no, no' then they are a gil farmer/bot and are in violation of the EULA. Consequences being character deletion and credit card banned. This is pretty simple no? it isn't rocket science; just common programming every MMORG has. So the question is, why hasn't Sonii done anything?
Ok sooo, this creeps me the F*** out, because i hate gil farmers.
Many Gil farmers have been spotted by me:
Shelm
Shash
Superstarmoon
Superstarmars
Superstarone
Superstarfive
Superstarren
(probably more of those)
Crt
Crtt
Crttd
All of these people are ALWAYS in the same area, always. And I know there are more out there. Wayy more, i wonder how many more. . . .
Funny, I was in Quicksandcaves, and all of a sudden the whole Superstar group came up and were being beaten down by a Antican Princeps. OMG, so our group tried to save them and kill it our selves. Well, one tanks DC's and many die. One Superstar said sorry and thats it.
Another note, for some reason I get kicked (Dc'd) more often and almost one after the other when their are gil sellers around. Probably coincedence, but i am now getting scared of these people. It feels like they have no soul O.o
Many Gil farmers have been spotted by me:
Shelm
Shash
Superstarmoon
Superstarmars
Superstarone
Superstarfive
Superstarren
(probably more of those)
Crt
Crtt
Crttd
All of these people are ALWAYS in the same area, always. And I know there are more out there. Wayy more, i wonder how many more. . . .
Funny, I was in Quicksandcaves, and all of a sudden the whole Superstar group came up and were being beaten down by a Antican Princeps. OMG, so our group tried to save them and kill it our selves. Well, one tanks DC's and many die. One Superstar said sorry and thats it.
Another note, for some reason I get kicked (Dc'd) more often and almost one after the other when their are gil sellers around. Probably coincedence, but i am now getting scared of these people. It feels like they have no soul O.o
Oh, on another note, their are gil farmers logging in and out only to come on to buy the items from guild, then log right back out till next day. (I.e Woodworking Guild)
This is really irritating me, because of ping time, because of camping, because i can't even level my woodworking skill anymore without going broke ><. This has got to stop, at least at guild. Why the F'n SE come out with that Virtual Clock. Now everyone and thier mom can log in and buy the logs just like that. And i know hey are bots, I camp their many times, to see them log in buy log out. A simple script that irritates the hell outta me.
This is really irritating me, because of ping time, because of camping, because i can't even level my woodworking skill anymore without going broke ><. This has got to stop, at least at guild. Why the F'n SE come out with that Virtual Clock. Now everyone and thier mom can log in and buy the logs just like that. And i know hey are bots, I camp their many times, to see them log in buy log out. A simple script that irritates the hell outta me.
I'm not saying they're not gil-farmers. I'm just saying - don't be so quick to jump to that conclusion. By these standards, a lot of people could be called gil-farmers.
We have a person in our LS who's been playing since November. While the rest of us are in our 60s in our main jobs, she's in her 40s. We're rank 5-9, and she's happy at Rank 4. She spends about 75-80% of her gaming time crafting. She makes a ton of money at this.
Her making money endlessly is no more asinine or repetitive than us going out and leveling up endlessly. She likes having tons of gil and high crafting levels; we like getting XP and doing quests.
It's a game. People are free to play as they see fit within the rules set forth by the makers of the game. If they're version of fun is to be filthy rich, I don't see how it's hurting anyone. If they weren't logging in Ghelsba, they'd be out leveling up in Kazham. If people weren't ******** that they were "stealing" logging points, they'd be ******** that they were "stealing" mandragoras.
If my saying, "Leave them alone unless you can prove they're gil-farmers," makes me uptight? So be it. I rather think it makes me laid back since my panties aren't in a twist about this, but you're welcome to your opinion.
We have a person in our LS who's been playing since November. While the rest of us are in our 60s in our main jobs, she's in her 40s. We're rank 5-9, and she's happy at Rank 4. She spends about 75-80% of her gaming time crafting. She makes a ton of money at this.
Her making money endlessly is no more asinine or repetitive than us going out and leveling up endlessly. She likes having tons of gil and high crafting levels; we like getting XP and doing quests.
It's a game. People are free to play as they see fit within the rules set forth by the makers of the game. If they're version of fun is to be filthy rich, I don't see how it's hurting anyone. If they weren't logging in Ghelsba, they'd be out leveling up in Kazham. If people weren't ******** that they were "stealing" logging points, they'd be ******** that they were "stealing" mandragoras.
If my saying, "Leave them alone unless you can prove they're gil-farmers," makes me uptight? So be it. I rather think it makes me laid back since my panties aren't in a twist about this, but you're welcome to your opinion.
42 posts
First things first... GM = WORTHLESS. Only thing they will deal with is if someone uses racist or vulgar language (maybe occasional fishing bot). If your account gets hacked and you lose a lot of stuff...or if SE has an error and you lose, say a Kraken club, they won't do crap to repay you. Instead they try to make it sound like everything was your fault.
Secondly, SE has very little, if any at all, guards against botters and gil farmers. Can they check and easily find out who these people are...yes. Do they do it...no. Why...you tell me.
I think everyone knows about the THF botter in castle Oz by now....he has been called on tons of times...and nothing. And, yes I know he is a bot. I have seen him trained many times...he just stands there and dies (could easily flee and hide) then eventually goes to HP.
Kataran
Lv66 Blm/Whm
Secondly, SE has very little, if any at all, guards against botters and gil farmers. Can they check and easily find out who these people are...yes. Do they do it...no. Why...you tell me.
I think everyone knows about the THF botter in castle Oz by now....he has been called on tons of times...and nothing. And, yes I know he is a bot. I have seen him trained many times...he just stands there and dies (could easily flee and hide) then eventually goes to HP.
Kataran
Lv66 Blm/Whm
Hi all, just kinda curious here. I know what a gil farmer is, but I am not sure exactly what you mean by a bot?. Are you referring to a mule character when you say a bot?. I have 2 mule characters that hold items for me, and occasionally I will have one waiting in the guild to buy items to send to my main for crafting, seeing all the items i need always sell out in the first game time hour that the shop opens.
KarmaBum wrote:
It's a game. People are free to play as they see fit within the rules set forth by the makers of the game.
Within the rules. If they are not bots, then fine. They are just bloody frustrating and lack common courtesy. If they are bots, then they ought to be punished accordingly.
I have no problem whatsoever with people who wish to make lots of money for themselves in the game. My fiance spends entire days mining. But he is still courteous to others and respects that others wish to do the same thing.
Yes we're all free to play the game as we please. But that doesn't mean we should. If the way I pleased was to train mobs to zones everyday, would that be okay? Play as you please, but be aware that there are others around you trying to have fun and accomplish things too.
I learned about sharing and being courteous to others on Sesame Street. I'd like to think others learned the same lesson somewhere along the way.
botting, is using an outside program to enter a series of commands repeatedly. The effect is that you have your character doing 'whatever' in game continuesly in game while you are not actually at your computer. Having an alternate character to hold items for you and/or check other nation's AH, guild items, etc is called Muling. These are the definitions I use when I refer to either Botting or Muling. I am sure others have their own terms but it is of my perseption that these are the established terms.
As far as making money crafting; that is not the same thing and you know it. You are trying to justify SE's inaction by saying that Gil Farmers can appear the same thing as people who like to craft instead of lvl. I agree that according to my 'list' of questions they may seem similar but if you really want me to write out a guidline for the code of such a program then I will. I believe that everyone is knowledgable enough to know that there are some very clear differences between gil farmers and crafters in how they play the game and what their character's stats look like.
For instance, Gil Farmers are obviously after the easiest way to make gil in order to sell it online, or whatever. agreed? Now stop and think about the inherent difference between gil farming and crafting. They are both after the same thing and yet the gil farmers choose the mind numbing choice. Now a logical statement when given the previous threads of thought; is that Gil Farmers make more gil doing whatever they are doing rather than crafting. I am sure some gil farmers might craft specific items with whatever they 'farm' but yet that doesn't make gil farmers and crafters that similar.
You may see the situation as a grey issue. Yet with what I know of programming and the situation itself; I don't see it as grey at all. Think about this. There are some pretty obvious and notorious gil farmers. Everyone who plays the game is sure to see them and know what they are sooner or later. There is no doubt about this. Yet we are just the players. SE has so much more information on each character than we do. So if we can easily recognize gil farmers for what they really are. Then why can't SE? The answer is that SE can recognize them.
Now, the popular consensus on who is a gil farmer/bot and who isn't may be wrong at times. (case in point this thread) That inaccuracy is only do to the limited information at our disposal as players. There is a huge difference between the limit to our information as players and the limit to SE's information. So if 'we' as players can be right more times than we are not. I am pretty sure that SE 'can' be a whole lot more accurate.
As far as making money crafting; that is not the same thing and you know it. You are trying to justify SE's inaction by saying that Gil Farmers can appear the same thing as people who like to craft instead of lvl. I agree that according to my 'list' of questions they may seem similar but if you really want me to write out a guidline for the code of such a program then I will. I believe that everyone is knowledgable enough to know that there are some very clear differences between gil farmers and crafters in how they play the game and what their character's stats look like.
For instance, Gil Farmers are obviously after the easiest way to make gil in order to sell it online, or whatever. agreed? Now stop and think about the inherent difference between gil farming and crafting. They are both after the same thing and yet the gil farmers choose the mind numbing choice. Now a logical statement when given the previous threads of thought; is that Gil Farmers make more gil doing whatever they are doing rather than crafting. I am sure some gil farmers might craft specific items with whatever they 'farm' but yet that doesn't make gil farmers and crafters that similar.
You may see the situation as a grey issue. Yet with what I know of programming and the situation itself; I don't see it as grey at all. Think about this. There are some pretty obvious and notorious gil farmers. Everyone who plays the game is sure to see them and know what they are sooner or later. There is no doubt about this. Yet we are just the players. SE has so much more information on each character than we do. So if we can easily recognize gil farmers for what they really are. Then why can't SE? The answer is that SE can recognize them.
Now, the popular consensus on who is a gil farmer/bot and who isn't may be wrong at times. (case in point this thread) That inaccuracy is only do to the limited information at our disposal as players. There is a huge difference between the limit to our information as players and the limit to SE's information. So if 'we' as players can be right more times than we are not. I am pretty sure that SE 'can' be a whole lot more accurate.
7 posts
they're not bots
they're most likely gil farmers
they're on 24/7
they dont speak english or japanese
the fact im now high enough level to log elsewhere: priceless
they're most likely gil farmers
they're on 24/7
they dont speak english or japanese
the fact im now high enough level to log elsewhere: priceless
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