The game is meant to be played by YOU. Not by stepping aside while a HL does the work for you. Asking a High Level to help you is almost as bad cheating as buying gil or being Powerleveled.
Edited, Tue Sep 28 21:34:31 2004 by NOiSEA
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High Level's 'AttitudeFollow
Whoa now, NOiSEA, that's just too flat of a statement. Like I've said, people at your own level tend to be... disloyal (is that a word? I don't even know lol). They will leave you behind in two seconds flat a certain percentage of the time.
Saying it is like buying gil (which is flat out against the rules) or being Power Leveled (which might result in someone not knowing the mechanics of the game or the basic etiquette) is, in my opinion, misleading. Getting a HL to help you with AF is more like getting a bigger person to help you fight off a bully. It makes your life better, but you still know that soon enough you gotta stand on your own feet and move on. It's also easier to get a bigger, older person to stop the bully than getting other frightened children your age to team up, some of whom don't even go to the same school and/or don't care about that particular bully.
Wow, decent grades in high school and my analogies still suck >_>
Edited, Fri Oct 1 09:35:51 2004 by Noblemyth
Saying it is like buying gil (which is flat out against the rules) or being Power Leveled (which might result in someone not knowing the mechanics of the game or the basic etiquette) is, in my opinion, misleading. Getting a HL to help you with AF is more like getting a bigger person to help you fight off a bully. It makes your life better, but you still know that soon enough you gotta stand on your own feet and move on. It's also easier to get a bigger, older person to stop the bully than getting other frightened children your age to team up, some of whom don't even go to the same school and/or don't care about that particular bully.
Wow, decent grades in high school and my analogies still suck >_>
Edited, Fri Oct 1 09:35:51 2004 by Noblemyth
Quote:
Getting a HL to help you with AF is more like getting a bigger person to help you fight off a bully.
First about coffer keys...
Getting HL help for coffer key is different. The mobs that drops coffer key are as high as mid-60s. Mobs at that level (if not handled properly) can kill a level 75 easily.
Also certain coffer keys are hard due the location of the key dropping mobs are. Beadeaux and Temple of Uggalepih keys are very difficult for that reason (poor White Mages, Paladins, Summoners, and Samurais ; ;). Not to mention fighting Tonberry really sucks.
About certain AF quests...
Red Mage , White Mage AF3 in Fei'yin and Bard AF3 in Monastic Cavern can easily kill a full alliance if pepole are being careless. That is how hard that is >.>
Quote:
I've tried getting regular level people to help and the first thing most ask are if there is HL help. When I say no, most just leave thinking it's impossible.
Quests like Genkai I and AF1 are designed for a party that does not need HL help. It is good to have HL help, but you don't need it. It just make it more challenging. ^^
Quote:
A Taru WHM in full AF armor was standing there, and he stood there watching people die, did not fight off any of the mobs, and just stood there emoting
That Taru WHM deserves a blacklist. Is that one of the Cools? Or it is someone else? Please don't judge HLs just by a bad player like this. There are good nice HLs, but there also tons of as**oles.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
I can think of nothing in the game up to the point that I have played where I would have needed a higher level's help, and I can't imagine that being the case in te future either.
To say that its difficult to organize people of your same level is not an argument because its the same as leveling for exp. People can be just as unreliable in an exp party.
To say that the monsters that drop coffer keys are in their 60's is certainly not an argument because the monsters you are fighting in exp parties at that level are in their 60's.
The difficulties are what is supposed to be fun about this game. To say that its more like getting a bigger kid to help you fight a bully is not an argument because the whole point of the game is to fight tougher bullies than you. The reason it takes 6 of us to fight that one enemy in an exp party is because he is a tougher bully.
Just because something isn't a violation of the user agreement doesn't mean that its not cheating.
To say that its difficult to organize people of your same level is not an argument because its the same as leveling for exp. People can be just as unreliable in an exp party.
To say that the monsters that drop coffer keys are in their 60's is certainly not an argument because the monsters you are fighting in exp parties at that level are in their 60's.
The difficulties are what is supposed to be fun about this game. To say that its more like getting a bigger kid to help you fight a bully is not an argument because the whole point of the game is to fight tougher bullies than you. The reason it takes 6 of us to fight that one enemy in an exp party is because he is a tougher bully.
Just because something isn't a violation of the user agreement doesn't mean that its not cheating.
I understand what you mean about the difficulty is part of the game, the new expansion and Zilart missions are very good at that.
Man the Crag level capped missions are harder than fighting Shadow Lord ><.
But helping is also fun. I love helping others that are deserving (i.e. helpful and nice to others, know their jobs reasonably well) players to get what they need and to level.
Fun has different definitions, and how to get fun in a game varies from person to person. I love being challenged, but I also love being helpful. Fundementally, FFXI is for fun. It does not matter whether you are HL or LL. Period.
Man the Crag level capped missions are harder than fighting Shadow Lord ><.
But helping is also fun. I love helping others that are deserving (i.e. helpful and nice to others, know their jobs reasonably well) players to get what they need and to level.
Fun has different definitions, and how to get fun in a game varies from person to person. I love being challenged, but I also love being helpful. Fundementally, FFXI is for fun. It does not matter whether you are HL or LL. Period.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Quote:
To say that its difficult to organize people of your same level is not an argument because its the same as leveling for exp. People can be just as unreliable in an exp party.
Getting an XP party together (or maybe just an invite) can take hours on any given day. Getting a balanced XP party is even tougher, so sometimes you have to make due and plan well. Getting a balanced and willing party to go XP off coffer mobs (although you can) is simply harder compared to getting HL help and some other like-minded key hunters.
And getting an alliance together for something is much worse. So many people going somewhere together, odds are you got some serious morons with you. Oh, and try getting an alliance of people that get along. There's more drama in this game that a CBS weekday lineup full of cop and lawyer shows.
It's easier to convince a HL who will most likely not die. The odds of success/survival are higher with some badass help, imo.
And speaking of odds, I'll take the Colts over Jacksonville by more that 6 points.
So, what im hearing is that the general consensus on Cerberus seems to be that how you play isnt important. It's ok to beg for help because the game is too hard. Besides its SE fault - they made the game too hard for you right? You should do whats easier right?
Let me challenge you on something.
PLease tell me what you absolutely can not do without high level help. And I will help you find a way.
Let me challenge you on something.
PLease tell me what you absolutely can not do without high level help. And I will help you find a way.
I know that these quests and tasks CAN be done without high level help. But finding enough people of "appropriate" level range, available at the same time, for enough time to get the task done, for someone that they may not know... well, i'm sure you can imagine the difficulty... i'd say months in real life time before getting it done... that's my 2 gil.
noisea likes challenges, mornelithe values time. noisea is a super achiever, mornelithe (probably constrained by time) isn't as able to do so. noisea doesn't get help, mornelithe would like help.
just different playing styles. so get along. ^^
noisea: just cos you can do it, doesn't mean others can. we're born different with different faculties, and gaming might not be one of them.
mornelithe: noisea's right in a way. a lot of the people on this thread is using the excuse that 'it's too hard' to justify HL help. this game was never meant to be easy. i understand your time constraints, but it's just the way the game is played.
all else: it's not about HL's attitudes here. it's about the player's attitude. arguably some HL's do get cocky with the ease in which they do things, some just plain arrogant, and some really helpful ones. just like some LL's think they know everything when they don't, and some who just can't take 'no' for an answer, thinking that we all owe them a living.
case in point: play how you want to. ^^ and play WITH who you want to. ^^
just different playing styles. so get along. ^^
noisea: just cos you can do it, doesn't mean others can. we're born different with different faculties, and gaming might not be one of them.
mornelithe: noisea's right in a way. a lot of the people on this thread is using the excuse that 'it's too hard' to justify HL help. this game was never meant to be easy. i understand your time constraints, but it's just the way the game is played.
all else: it's not about HL's attitudes here. it's about the player's attitude. arguably some HL's do get cocky with the ease in which they do things, some just plain arrogant, and some really helpful ones. just like some LL's think they know everything when they don't, and some who just can't take 'no' for an answer, thinking that we all owe them a living.
case in point: play how you want to. ^^ and play WITH who you want to. ^^
Well, i would like to say that i dont mind helping ppl, if they are nice i actually like helping them. Kinda karma in a way.
But to demand help from me, or to get pissed if i say "yeah ill help jus let me finish this first" amazes me.
on the topic of being busy.
If i want to exp, i have to plan on waiting in jueno or wherever for 1-2 hours, granted sometimes ill get lucky, others i wont even get an invite. Now sometimes after sittin idle for awhile, i dont want to go help someone, why you ask? Lets say 5 mins after i drop my flag to go help john doe, a pty needs a dd. Now i might not get the opportiunity to exp for a good while again. Other times, i say f- it and go help the person. It does depend on the day/time. I'm sure most dd will aggree with me, the line is long and every opportunity to exp shouldnt be taken for granted.
For missions, these things take time to organize. Think its hard to organize an alliance of lvl 50's? Try gathering that many ppl in the 60's, and for the rank missions, ones of the same county or who want to go along for the ride.
Seriously though, it depends on the person. Be curtious and you should be treated with respect. If not, that person is a prick and you dont want to affilate yourself with them anyways.
Keep in mind, that often you are asking a stranger to devote hours of their time to help you, a complete stranger.
One scenario sticks out in my mind:
helping get rank 4;
High lvl blm: Hey Mag, ya see any elementals here, id like to get some cash while we here.
Me : Yeah, theres one in the NE corner
Pld (the one getting rank 4) : WTF, come on lets get this done already.
BLM: its not polite to yell at someone who is helping you, and we waited like 30 mins for you to even get here, another 5 mins wont kill you
Pld: STFU
Thats about what happened, so yeah there may be prick high lvl but there are also prick low lvls too.
Edited, Sun Oct 3 13:34:01 2004 by CerebusMag
But to demand help from me, or to get pissed if i say "yeah ill help jus let me finish this first" amazes me.
on the topic of being busy.
If i want to exp, i have to plan on waiting in jueno or wherever for 1-2 hours, granted sometimes ill get lucky, others i wont even get an invite. Now sometimes after sittin idle for awhile, i dont want to go help someone, why you ask? Lets say 5 mins after i drop my flag to go help john doe, a pty needs a dd. Now i might not get the opportiunity to exp for a good while again. Other times, i say f- it and go help the person. It does depend on the day/time. I'm sure most dd will aggree with me, the line is long and every opportunity to exp shouldnt be taken for granted.
For missions, these things take time to organize. Think its hard to organize an alliance of lvl 50's? Try gathering that many ppl in the 60's, and for the rank missions, ones of the same county or who want to go along for the ride.
Seriously though, it depends on the person. Be curtious and you should be treated with respect. If not, that person is a prick and you dont want to affilate yourself with them anyways.
Keep in mind, that often you are asking a stranger to devote hours of their time to help you, a complete stranger.
One scenario sticks out in my mind:
helping get rank 4;
High lvl blm: Hey Mag, ya see any elementals here, id like to get some cash while we here.
Me : Yeah, theres one in the NE corner
Pld (the one getting rank 4) : WTF, come on lets get this done already.
BLM: its not polite to yell at someone who is helping you, and we waited like 30 mins for you to even get here, another 5 mins wont kill you
Pld: STFU
Thats about what happened, so yeah there may be prick high lvl but there are also prick low lvls too.
Edited, Sun Oct 3 13:34:01 2004 by CerebusMag
Scholar
22 posts
I agree, I mean I was trying to get some help for my AF gloves I just had to kill Dark Spark. It took me 4 hrs just to put togeather 1 party. when i tried getting some high level help I had like 4 people tell me that they didn't have time, and 3 others just plain out say NO!. Then there was this one guy a lvl 70 RNG/NIN I asked first words out of his mouth was 100Mil for help. I just gave him the face that looked like he was crazy I think it looked a little like this 0.o >< anyways I finally got that done and i'm happy about it 2.
you the man Artea, and congratulations on the gloves (do you have the pimp hat yet?)
on subject, i dont deal with high level players that much, due to my low level, but the one that have helped me out in the past have been very nice and generous. Maybe im lucky and have good people skills (hahahaha) then again why listen to me im only lvl 30 =p
on subject, i dont deal with high level players that much, due to my low level, but the one that have helped me out in the past have been very nice and generous. Maybe im lucky and have good people skills (hahahaha) then again why listen to me im only lvl 30 =p
I understand people have differences of opinion and of course we can all get along. I wasn't trying to start a fight (and I sure hope thats not what happened - I didn't even think about that until enthuz' post so ty enthuz)
I enjoy debates on topics like these in real life.
(Ethics, theology etc...)
And this seems to fall under that category to me.
The funny thing is I actually help others out a lot, despite what you may think from my posts. But I don't ask for high level help in my own advwntures. Helping lower levels is a reward I give myself for all my hard work. After all, we are all trying to make a stronger character, and sometimes you want to actually use that strength against a monster that used to be stronger than you.
But here's the other side of it. There's a lot of myths out there for some reason that certain things require a Higher level. People think Genkai's do for example. I've actually heard people say Genkai 1 can't be done without a higher level player. The hardest monsters you fight for that check Tough to a 49 or 50 lvl player. Even funnier is that some people have told me they heard its impossible to get to norg without high level help. Which a lvl 1 could do with sneak oil.
The problem with these myths is this. If someone wants to play it "legit" without high level help and then they are told its "impossible" without higher level thenthey feel they have no choice and end up missing out on the excitement that can come from this game. That scenario Is not made up - I have 2 friends that quit because of it. The concept of a game "requiring" help from higher level players seemed assinine to them. Its not true and if it were I wouldnt be playing that's for shure.
I enjoy debates on topics like these in real life.
(Ethics, theology etc...)
And this seems to fall under that category to me.
The funny thing is I actually help others out a lot, despite what you may think from my posts. But I don't ask for high level help in my own advwntures. Helping lower levels is a reward I give myself for all my hard work. After all, we are all trying to make a stronger character, and sometimes you want to actually use that strength against a monster that used to be stronger than you.
But here's the other side of it. There's a lot of myths out there for some reason that certain things require a Higher level. People think Genkai's do for example. I've actually heard people say Genkai 1 can't be done without a higher level player. The hardest monsters you fight for that check Tough to a 49 or 50 lvl player. Even funnier is that some people have told me they heard its impossible to get to norg without high level help. Which a lvl 1 could do with sneak oil.
The problem with these myths is this. If someone wants to play it "legit" without high level help and then they are told its "impossible" without higher level thenthey feel they have no choice and end up missing out on the excitement that can come from this game. That scenario Is not made up - I have 2 friends that quit because of it. The concept of a game "requiring" help from higher level players seemed assinine to them. Its not true and if it were I wouldnt be playing that's for shure.
honestly, I think it's funner to earn it with people your same level, or close to, or with LS mates. When my SP hit 40 the first time, we had a lvl73 WHM Taru help us get our AF1. Honestly, the experiance kinda sucked. Not only did I die because he didn't have a map of Rag<tab> Pass and lead us astray... the whole just wasn't very fun. The next pass thru when I helped our PLD get her AF1 with other people from our LS was enjoyable. Sure it took all night to get 1 AF instead of 5 like the last time, but we had fun as a LS.
Also along these lines, I had an interesting time with a fairly new player in Prom the other night. I was tagging behind Warf and Laub's alliance as WHM, tossing out cures. My intent was never to fight, I didn't even bring items. I wanted to explore a tad on floor 4 and just help out on the trip up. After we got to the spire, a number of people from the alliance had been lost. Groups were rearranged for the fight and some people were left out. This player was quite mad, and started ranted and namecalling at me while I was out exploring. Needless to say, he thought I knew this would happen and didn't care. After all was said and done, I came back to spire and 2 people were still there. I offered both a tele out. Pissed-off guy didn't understand that even though he was an *******, as a WHM with tele I wouldn't leave someone stuck in prom doomed to death-warp if they wanted to go home. He also didn't understand the difference between tele and warp, I had to tele us out, tell him to wait at the telepoint while I warped, changed jobs, and hopped a tele out to warp him.
Anywho, guess the moral I'm trying to get at is don't expect too much of people, but work to go beyond others expectations of you. This player was an ******* to me, mostly cause he was pissed and didn't know how or where to direct that anger, but I wasn't going to be an ******* myself and leave him stuck somewhere.
Also along these lines, I had an interesting time with a fairly new player in Prom the other night. I was tagging behind Warf and Laub's alliance as WHM, tossing out cures. My intent was never to fight, I didn't even bring items. I wanted to explore a tad on floor 4 and just help out on the trip up. After we got to the spire, a number of people from the alliance had been lost. Groups were rearranged for the fight and some people were left out. This player was quite mad, and started ranted and namecalling at me while I was out exploring. Needless to say, he thought I knew this would happen and didn't care. After all was said and done, I came back to spire and 2 people were still there. I offered both a tele out. Pissed-off guy didn't understand that even though he was an *******, as a WHM with tele I wouldn't leave someone stuck in prom doomed to death-warp if they wanted to go home. He also didn't understand the difference between tele and warp, I had to tele us out, tell him to wait at the telepoint while I warped, changed jobs, and hopped a tele out to warp him.
Anywho, guess the moral I'm trying to get at is don't expect too much of people, but work to go beyond others expectations of you. This player was an ******* to me, mostly cause he was pissed and didn't know how or where to direct that anger, but I wasn't going to be an ******* myself and leave him stuck somewhere.
Well, I guess you can't get anymore high lvl than 75, so here's my view on this. When it was time for me to get my AF, i had an ls that was uncapable of helping, mostly because they didn't want, even tho we were all good friends. The way i got all my af quests and coffers done was because of friends. A friend would invite me to come along and thats how i got my stuff. I didn't get my bard AF gloves till lvl 64. and my AF3 coat till like 67. I didnt' spend my time ******** about it. I know its hard to get help and now that i'm high lvl i see why. I'm always busy doing stuff with ls, and when i get some time to myself i usually want to lvl cooking or whm or have some fun ******* around jueno in subligar like an *******. But i do spend alot of time helping ppl, i know i have lots of friends out there who can confirm that i help ^^. plus its fun. I remember doing DS and someone caused a huge train they escape but i died, i wasn't angry, hell i got a cool *** screen shot. So please dont make this stereotype to all high lvl players because i know so many that help out. Anyone that knows Triumph, Jonathan, USMC and alot of other ppl know that these ppl will help ppl out without a problem as long as you aren't a jerk. (plz dont just ask ppl for help when dont even know them)
One more thing to add is that when HLs are helping you, that they are taking their time and gil to help. I have a real life career, and I don't have infinte time to play. I love to help as much as I can. As a consquence, I don't spend much time in leveling, and am always poor as hell. (Consquently I am demanding in an exp party ^^ so I can get good exp and spending the least amount gil for food and potions).
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
doing promyvions, iv met more a**hole high levels then i ever thought existed. iv died so many times at the holla NM because people think their are so great at their job, and dont want to listen to how tough this is.
but the best one, was on saturday when a second aliance, of lv65+ NA walk by and like a bunch of pricks say "dont follow us, we dont want to get mpk again from your links". we were waiting for DC mage, so we let them go on ahead. we get ready and leave to find an orb, and then what do we have here, but those same prick high levels entire alliance dieing from a seether link.
after going on in /say about how everyone else was going to get them killed, they are the ones here being killed by links. they didnt hessitate 1 second in /helping the mob so we could save them, yea, we are the ones whose links are gonna kill everyone here *rolls eyes*
neeless to say, after we saved them, we told them "how about you dont follow us, take your links and death a different way"
but the best one, was on saturday when a second aliance, of lv65+ NA walk by and like a bunch of pricks say "dont follow us, we dont want to get mpk again from your links". we were waiting for DC mage, so we let them go on ahead. we get ready and leave to find an orb, and then what do we have here, but those same prick high levels entire alliance dieing from a seether link.
after going on in /say about how everyone else was going to get them killed, they are the ones here being killed by links. they didnt hessitate 1 second in /helping the mob so we could save them, yea, we are the ones whose links are gonna kill everyone here *rolls eyes*
neeless to say, after we saved them, we told them "how about you dont follow us, take your links and death a different way"
Thank you for all of your inputs. I've appreciated reading the responses i've had on this thread. This was never meant as a **tch-fest, and i'm glad that no one has really gotten to that point on this thread.
I offer my help on a number of occaisions to my Linkshell, and there are certainly times when i'm busy trying to make money for main job. I try to be as thankful as i feel honorable to be in game for any help i recieve, be it from friends, or random "Joe" who happens to be bored, and willing to help.
Apparently i've just had s**t luck in meeting higher level players, and never had the oppurtunity to meet NA players with manners, and a friendly attitude. Most i've run into have had me almost permanently on /shout filtered off. Combined with the increase in people MPK'ing in the main leveling areas.
As i have leveled many jobs to various levels, i'm always open to a /tell chat about strategy and style on any job. I love the conversation, and am always open to new ideas. Feel free to say hi, i'd like to meeet some new people, and am always open to discussion.
Thank you, and happy gaming.
I offer my help on a number of occaisions to my Linkshell, and there are certainly times when i'm busy trying to make money for main job. I try to be as thankful as i feel honorable to be in game for any help i recieve, be it from friends, or random "Joe" who happens to be bored, and willing to help.
Apparently i've just had s**t luck in meeting higher level players, and never had the oppurtunity to meet NA players with manners, and a friendly attitude. Most i've run into have had me almost permanently on /shout filtered off. Combined with the increase in people MPK'ing in the main leveling areas.
As i have leveled many jobs to various levels, i'm always open to a /tell chat about strategy and style on any job. I love the conversation, and am always open to new ideas. Feel free to say hi, i'd like to meeet some new people, and am always open to discussion.
Thank you, and happy gaming.
Noisea: don't thank me. we should be thanking you for the clarification. ^^
Quote:
Apparently i've just had s**t luck in meeting higher level players, and never had the oppurtunity to meet NA players with manners
Sometimes meeting the right players are luck. A lot of such luck is from getting invited to join a good linkshell. A good way to meet such people is to volunteer to help doing missions and AF keys -- even the missions and keys you don't need. You are a red mage, people will like you in AF key parties ^^.
Personally, I have a lot more problems with NA players (+ Chinese gilfarmers) than JP/TW players. I find Asian players are more coordinated and with better coperation.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
mornelithe: if you wouldn't mind having a chatty discourse with a semi-underlevelled pld in game, just do a random search for me sometime and send me a surprise /tell. i'll do the same, if i see you. ^^ invitation open to everyone who wants to chat, if i'm not busy lvling or helping someone. ^^
sschan: being an asian player (chinese, from singapore) and residing in the US for studies, i think it's partly cos of culture that asians cooperate better. americans tend to be more individualistic in their approach, and asians tend to band together more. it's nothing bad, just a way of life. frankly, i think the typical american crowd would excel in this game, as much as the asians, once you give them a common enemy, like some terrorist or something (think gil-sellers). lol, my experience has always been, you anger enough americans, they'll squash you anyway. ;) (oh, they'll have a long long ******** session prior, and probably a lot of disagreement, with many people wanting their opinions heard... but they'll get together and whoop some *** later. ^^)
all: maybe it's just my parents doing a good job raising me. i've been given to believe values like trust, modesty, integrity exist. and that we are a better person when we hold these values close. yup, i'd even go so far as to say these are the building blocks of good karma. i'm no expert at all this, btw, so i apologize for 'misleading' if i'm wrong. also, i'm still learning, so check back with me about this topic constantly. discussion sometimes spawns new ideas, no? ;)
sschan: being an asian player (chinese, from singapore) and residing in the US for studies, i think it's partly cos of culture that asians cooperate better. americans tend to be more individualistic in their approach, and asians tend to band together more. it's nothing bad, just a way of life. frankly, i think the typical american crowd would excel in this game, as much as the asians, once you give them a common enemy, like some terrorist or something (think gil-sellers). lol, my experience has always been, you anger enough americans, they'll squash you anyway. ;) (oh, they'll have a long long ******** session prior, and probably a lot of disagreement, with many people wanting their opinions heard... but they'll get together and whoop some *** later. ^^)
all: maybe it's just my parents doing a good job raising me. i've been given to believe values like trust, modesty, integrity exist. and that we are a better person when we hold these values close. yup, i'd even go so far as to say these are the building blocks of good karma. i'm no expert at all this, btw, so i apologize for 'misleading' if i'm wrong. also, i'm still learning, so check back with me about this topic constantly. discussion sometimes spawns new ideas, no? ;)
/slap Joel
/slap Enthuz
Ok now I feel better.
Mornlithe:
Maybe you have and you didn't know they were NA. :-b
Enthuz:
Yes I'll agree with you for the most part, but not all. You know me well enough to know I'll bust my butt to help someone else, and even put aside RL things at times if I tell someone I'll help. Yes it's very sad that a lot of the "problem" people are NA, but by no means are they only NA. It's honestly troubling to here anyone from overseas feel like there are no helpful or respectful NA players. /sigh.
I brought a JP player into our LS this weekend at the request of one of our members, and I told him the same thing I tell everyone when they get a pearl; The only rule we have is that you respect the other members. Everyone in my LS but him is NA and almost all of us are quick to help people out, NA, JP, China, I don't care, if I can help, I will.
Please don't feel that all NA players have followed the stereotype of disrespectful or individualists, it's far from true. I've been screwed by people of all nations yet I refuse to stereotype. Ie. "Chinese Gil Sellers". Ok so a lot of the gil sellers are Chinese, does that mean all Chinese are like that?? Hardly. I would hope that you all meet more NA players that help restore your faith in the comradery that we can offer.
Edited, Mon Oct 4 14:52:00 2004 by LeetFade
/slap Enthuz
Ok now I feel better.
Mornlithe:
Quote:
and never had the oppurtunity to meet NA players with manners, and a friendly attitude
Maybe you have and you didn't know they were NA. :-b
Enthuz:
Quote:
americans tend to be more individualistic in their approach
Yes I'll agree with you for the most part, but not all. You know me well enough to know I'll bust my butt to help someone else, and even put aside RL things at times if I tell someone I'll help. Yes it's very sad that a lot of the "problem" people are NA, but by no means are they only NA. It's honestly troubling to here anyone from overseas feel like there are no helpful or respectful NA players. /sigh.
I brought a JP player into our LS this weekend at the request of one of our members, and I told him the same thing I tell everyone when they get a pearl; The only rule we have is that you respect the other members. Everyone in my LS but him is NA and almost all of us are quick to help people out, NA, JP, China, I don't care, if I can help, I will.
Please don't feel that all NA players have followed the stereotype of disrespectful or individualists, it's far from true. I've been screwed by people of all nations yet I refuse to stereotype. Ie. "Chinese Gil Sellers". Ok so a lot of the gil sellers are Chinese, does that mean all Chinese are like that?? Hardly. I would hope that you all meet more NA players that help restore your faith in the comradery that we can offer.
Edited, Mon Oct 4 14:52:00 2004 by LeetFade
How come no one congratulated me on winning the Colts bet? Oh right, no one bet against me...
/em slaps himself on the back in congratulations.
Anyway, I never said I didn't like a challenge (quite the opoosite). I never said I was lazy (I'm a workaholic). I also never said that this game was "too hard" for me (it seems too easy with the right people). From what I can tell the game is tailor-made for small groups to succeed. It is meant to breed friendships, commarodery (sp?), and a sense of fun and adventure. But some people have been getting coddled since level 1 and simply refuse to do anything the hard way, which is always the more fun way as far as I know.
This game is like real-life: some people work hard to achieve great things on their own, but too many leech off of others; and some of the leeches end up much more successful than the honest people. And then there are those who repay their self-implied debts to society by helping others whenever they can... and end up helping the leeches more than anything else.
Yeah, yeah, I suck at metaphors....
/em slaps himself on the back in congratulations.
Anyway, I never said I didn't like a challenge (quite the opoosite). I never said I was lazy (I'm a workaholic). I also never said that this game was "too hard" for me (it seems too easy with the right people). From what I can tell the game is tailor-made for small groups to succeed. It is meant to breed friendships, commarodery (sp?), and a sense of fun and adventure. But some people have been getting coddled since level 1 and simply refuse to do anything the hard way, which is always the more fun way as far as I know.
This game is like real-life: some people work hard to achieve great things on their own, but too many leech off of others; and some of the leeches end up much more successful than the honest people. And then there are those who repay their self-implied debts to society by helping others whenever they can... and end up helping the leeches more than anything else.
Yeah, yeah, I suck at metaphors....
You know, lol I remember being low level. Matter of fact I still consider myself low level. When I can walk around the lower level of eldieme w/o aggro to help on key mobs, then I will consider myself high level.
I remember thinking to myself (after getting super help) that I would return the favor. I also remember 2 months irl waiting to get help for PLD af in eldieme. After I got my af, and started leveling in the 60's, it became more and more difficult to help.
We have our own goals, and our own desires, that often take much, much, much longer than getting papyrus, or eldieme keys or anything of that nature.
Leveling for one thing takes 5-10x as long as it used to. Gil farming for those "need" and "want" items takes forever because they are often several hundred thousand dollars. Which means hours of farming.
Not to mention quests and missions and all that other stuff included with this game.
All this said, looking back to when I was getting all this help for my stuff, I tip my hat a little farther to those high levels from back in the day. Because I really really wanna help, but it is extreamly hard to find the time to do so. My paladin is coming up on the levels to start tanking HNM's and possibly even dynamis(really need 70 for that).
So I really appreciate the help I recieved, and helping others is much more gratifying, when they appreciate it the same way. Knowing that someone is taking time out of a very hectic schedule is really cool.
So please if you /t me for help and I decline it's not because I dont want to. Its because I'm busy or getting ready to be busy.
I remember thinking to myself (after getting super help) that I would return the favor. I also remember 2 months irl waiting to get help for PLD af in eldieme. After I got my af, and started leveling in the 60's, it became more and more difficult to help.
We have our own goals, and our own desires, that often take much, much, much longer than getting papyrus, or eldieme keys or anything of that nature.
Leveling for one thing takes 5-10x as long as it used to. Gil farming for those "need" and "want" items takes forever because they are often several hundred thousand dollars. Which means hours of farming.
Not to mention quests and missions and all that other stuff included with this game.
All this said, looking back to when I was getting all this help for my stuff, I tip my hat a little farther to those high levels from back in the day. Because I really really wanna help, but it is extreamly hard to find the time to do so. My paladin is coming up on the levels to start tanking HNM's and possibly even dynamis(really need 70 for that).
So I really appreciate the help I recieved, and helping others is much more gratifying, when they appreciate it the same way. Knowing that someone is taking time out of a very hectic schedule is really cool.
So please if you /t me for help and I decline it's not because I dont want to. Its because I'm busy or getting ready to be busy.
sorry, didn't mean to generalize, i meant that i have only met a few NA players that are friendly, etc.
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