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- Rehashing of opinions on casinos
Rehashing of opinions on casinosFollow
We've all run across them in Auction House areas in Jeuno and Sandy, but what's your opinion on them? I'd like to get input from both sides of the fence.
Allow me to begin:
I occasionally run a casino on my mule. Those of you who have seen my casino in Jeuno know me as Vax.
I enjoy gambling, and have about a 50% success rate in actually making gil; as the customer or as the casino. That having been said, you know my position: I'm pro-casino.
Aside from the obvious (the chances of getting ripped off) I really don't understand the distate that some people seem to have with this mode of operation.
When running my casino, I get spammed with derrogatory comments and off color flames. Why? Why take the time out of your day to type out profanities and either start an argument, or get added to the ever-expanding blacklist? I'm really not a bad guy at all, or at least that's what I like to tell people, and I'm very decent in an exp party. So why would you want to allienate me? Simply because I RUN a casino?
I've seen excuses for distaste for casinos ranging from "I got ripped off once" to "I HATE SPAMMERS!" to "Gambling is against my religion."
As a casino, I'd like to address these three excuses, and get your input and opinions.
1. "I got ripped off once."
Retort: I do my best to be upright and I'm on my "A" game 99.999% of the time. I, personally, would NEVER intentionally wrong another player. I've gone from rags to riches and back to rags in a single day! With the way that the current trade system works, it's very easy to accidentally give a pay out to someone who's trying to place a bid. Mistakes happen, and in the rare instances that this has happened to me, I've bitten the bullet and made an extra payout to the legitimate winner, and asked for gil back from the lucky monkey who walked up to place a bet and got handed 200k on accident. Most of the time I've gotten my money back, sometimes I haven't, but in the end, the legit winner takes home a fat sweaty wad of cash.
Also, I was talking with Fatty one day (rather abraisive fellow at times) who said that he'd disconnected during a roll, and didn't see it. He logged back in and the customer swore that he'd hit a tripple on a high stakes bid. Not having been online to see the actual roll, Fatty asked the customer to re-roll. This is a hard call. As a casino, I'd want to be in attendance for my 5mil+ loss. As a gambler, I know that the chances of me hitting a second triple are slim to none, so I'd be rather unhappy with this request.
In this situation, Fatty elected to hold on to the bet pending a re-roll, which the customer refused to do. The customer placed a GM call, and the GM checked the logs, and determined that the X3 roll was legitimate. (At this point I'd give the payout with no questions asked.) Fatty apparently elected to tell the GM that he wouldn't payout on a roll he was not around for. The GM jailed Fatty, materialized as a player character and advised Fatty that if he didn't willingly give over, then he (the GM) would be more than happy to take it from him (Fatty.) At this point, Fatty gave the winnings to the GM who, in turn, passed them on to the big winner.
The moral of the story? You have recourse and protection by way of a GM ticket, apparently.
2. "I HATE SPAMMERS!!!"
Retort: That's fine, hate spammers. You should blist them all. That way you don't see what's being repeated over and over once every 5 - 10 minutes depending on Jeuno spam. For example, my casino advertisement. You don't have to /tell me you don't like it, just .. Don't like it, and blist me! No skin off my nose, you're merely blisting my mule, and we can be friends and PT when I'm on my main. I won't even mention my casino there.
3. "Gambling is against my religion."
Retort: This is a 2 part retort.
1.) Simple: DON'T GAMBLE
2.) Last time I checked with Pastor Jim, the congregation wasn't real big on Fantasy OR Magic which constitutes 100% of the game.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. What's your opinion?
I'll answer you from my point of view:
1. I don't care for casinos, but then, I don't use/run them. If that's what everyone else wants to do with their gil, go for it.
2. 95% of the time, especially while in towns, I have my shout filter on. The only time I don't is when I'm looking for something particular. That means there's only a 5% chance I even see casino's being spammed, unless the person is doing it in /say.
3. If I do have my shout filter off, or someone is spamming casino's in /say, I simply /blist them so I don't have to hear it. The downside is, I don't necessarily hold anything against that person, and there may come a time in the future where chatting with them may be necessary (i.e. xp party, event, etc.). I try to remember to clear out my /blist every so often just to be sure.
Anyway, point from me is, go on and gamble all you want. There's more than enough ways for me to ignore what's going on.
1. I don't care for casinos, but then, I don't use/run them. If that's what everyone else wants to do with their gil, go for it.
2. 95% of the time, especially while in towns, I have my shout filter on. The only time I don't is when I'm looking for something particular. That means there's only a 5% chance I even see casino's being spammed, unless the person is doing it in /say.
3. If I do have my shout filter off, or someone is spamming casino's in /say, I simply /blist them so I don't have to hear it. The downside is, I don't necessarily hold anything against that person, and there may come a time in the future where chatting with them may be necessary (i.e. xp party, event, etc.). I try to remember to clear out my /blist every so often just to be sure.
Anyway, point from me is, go on and gamble all you want. There's more than enough ways for me to ignore what's going on.
Why don't you just stop spamming so to save us the efford to blacklist you?
You have the right to say anything in say-mode, we have the right not to listen to you, and your spam.
In my opinion, as long as there are more than one person who dislike spam of any kind, you need to stop spamming in stead of asking a large number of players to blacklist you. I think you are pretty selfish.
I could be wrong though. If there are more casino lovers than casino haters, then go ahead. However, under my impression, there exist more casino haters.
I, personally, will not filter out /shout or /say just to avoid spams by casinos. I occasionally blacklist casinos simply because I hate spams, but later I have found that not every one of them uses his/her mule, as a result, I miss out important (or potential) /tell or /shout.
Like you said, casino owners could be cool guys outside of Lower Jeuno, and I don't want to blacklist them because of their stupid spam.
My 2 cents.
Let's share our different views.
Edited, Thu Oct 20 11:51:38 2005 by Sternh
You have the right to say anything in say-mode, we have the right not to listen to you, and your spam.
In my opinion, as long as there are more than one person who dislike spam of any kind, you need to stop spamming in stead of asking a large number of players to blacklist you. I think you are pretty selfish.
I could be wrong though. If there are more casino lovers than casino haters, then go ahead. However, under my impression, there exist more casino haters.
I, personally, will not filter out /shout or /say just to avoid spams by casinos. I occasionally blacklist casinos simply because I hate spams, but later I have found that not every one of them uses his/her mule, as a result, I miss out important (or potential) /tell or /shout.
Like you said, casino owners could be cool guys outside of Lower Jeuno, and I don't want to blacklist them because of their stupid spam.
My 2 cents.
Let's share our different views.
Edited, Thu Oct 20 11:51:38 2005 by Sternh
"Casinos" can suck my balls, you "people" running them shouldnt be allowed to play the game anymore than a full fledged RMT should.
Go To Hell.
Go To Hell.
I don't like casinos because it encourages laziness. Many players participate in a casino because they want to get gil without having to work for it.
I also don't like casinos because it results in one person benefiting at the sole expense of another. There is no quid pro quo. The player who comes away with less gil than he started has gained absolutely nothing from the transaction. Casinos simply serve to redistribute wealth, without actually creating any wealth in the process. Every other form of gil raising activity in the game results in wealth-creation, and benefits the community.
I also don't like casinos because it results in one person benefiting at the sole expense of another. There is no quid pro quo. The player who comes away with less gil than he started has gained absolutely nothing from the transaction. Casinos simply serve to redistribute wealth, without actually creating any wealth in the process. Every other form of gil raising activity in the game results in wealth-creation, and benefits the community.
LOL yes. Connery.. I know your opinion already.. You're one of the childish ones that likes to spam /tell profanity.
And yes, there are ACTUAL people running them, not "people."
Again, you can blist, and get over yourself.
And yes, there are ACTUAL people running them, not "people."
Again, you can blist, and get over yourself.
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Why don't you just stop spamming so to save us the efford to blacklist you?
I still don't see how casino /say spam is any worse than any other kind of spam going on in any given area. How much effort, exactly, does it take to type /blist add vax anyway?
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In my opinion, as long as there are more than one person who dislike spam of any kind, you need to stop spamming in stead of asking a large number of players to blacklist you.
This can apply to any situation, not just casinos. You can't please everyone all the time. That becomes more and more apparent every time I log in, be it on my main, or my mule.
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I think you are pretty selfish.
You're the one that wants to be "saved the effort" of typing three little words. :P
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I, personally, will not filter out /shout or /say just to avoid spams by casinos. I occasionally blacklist casinos simply because I hate spams, but later I have found that not every one of them uses his/her mule, as a result, I miss out important (or potential) /tell or /shout.
No one's asking you to filter, simply to type 3 little words starting with a / :)
But thank you very much for replying to the thread.. I would like to know where everyone is coming from :)
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I don't like casinos because it encourages laziness.
I was surprised when I started my casino at how much work it actually turns out to be.. it's not really as easy as you would believe. Like any business in real life, you have to live up to a standard of quality that befits ur clientelle. At times it can be rather fast paced, and mistakes can be made. Your entire time is spent networking with ur clients, and keeping your service competitive with the other casinos.
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I also don't like casinos because it results in one person benefiting at the sole expense of another.
Gambling is.. well.. A gamble. For BOTH sides. You win or you lose. Yes, as the winner, on either side of the fence, someone is benefitting from another. This is really no different than any other aspect of the game. When you get down to it, every player is really only interested in one thing. The betterment of themselves. Whether it's a casino, a NM drop, or an O-hat run, really what more are you trying to accomplish than the betterment of yourself? And these are functions that are all at the expense of others. If YOU get that NM pull, then you're directly benefitting at the expense of another anyway. They may have needed the drop more, but do you really care when you're competing for a pull? No.. You do your best to be first.
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Casinos simply serve to redistribute wealth, without actually creating any wealth in the process. Every other form of gil raising activity in the game results in wealth-creation, and benefits the community.
Redistribution of wealth is just as important to the economy as wealth creation is, would you not agree? If not for the redistribution of wealth, then RMTs would own the game through and through.. or am I wrong?
One other thing I forgot to address:
In Jeuno, common practice is to advertise in /say .. New casinos are asked to only use /say. We've no interest in MAKING you listen to our advertisement as much as giving you the information that we are available, and always in the same areas that have been casino grounds since, at least, before I started playing 6+ months ago.
Casinos will /blist other casinos that spam shouts.
If I could sit with a sign in front of me that showed my advertisement and stats so I didn't have to hit a macro to give my information I would.. Unfortunately, this is not an in-game possibility. I know what you are thinking, put it in the Bazaar comment. I do this too, to let return customers know that the casino is up or down. Unfortunately, this type of advertisement doesn't reach NEW customers who would be interested in playing if only they knew the availability.
Rate ups for all, less Connery, who could act like a grown up every now and then. You can express your opinion without acting like a 10 year old.. Unless of course you ARE a ten year old, in which case it's against the ToC for you to even play.
In Jeuno, common practice is to advertise in /say .. New casinos are asked to only use /say. We've no interest in MAKING you listen to our advertisement as much as giving you the information that we are available, and always in the same areas that have been casino grounds since, at least, before I started playing 6+ months ago.
Casinos will /blist other casinos that spam shouts.
If I could sit with a sign in front of me that showed my advertisement and stats so I didn't have to hit a macro to give my information I would.. Unfortunately, this is not an in-game possibility. I know what you are thinking, put it in the Bazaar comment. I do this too, to let return customers know that the casino is up or down. Unfortunately, this type of advertisement doesn't reach NEW customers who would be interested in playing if only they knew the availability.
Rate ups for all, less Connery, who could act like a grown up every now and then. You can express your opinion without acting like a 10 year old.. Unless of course you ARE a ten year old, in which case it's against the ToC for you to even play.
It works out fairly simple to me.
I've never used a casino, don't have any desire to. But they are doing nothing to me. They don't harm me, they rarely even harsh my mellow in Lower Jeuno. If they do, I /blist. I don't waste my time shouting them down, or sending /tells. I tend to review my admittedly small blacklist every so often, and folks who've been tossed onto it for casino shouts are often taken back off not long after. It's just not a big deal to me.
As to the validity, honesty, etc? I say only this:
Caveat Emptor. Let the buyer beware.
I don't let anyone else borrow my gear, I don't loan gil to people (except for a very, very specific set of people who I have trust in going back years).. hell I don't even like to do a /trade exchange if I don't know and trust the person. I prefer to use bazaar, just in case someone might pull a fast one and try to quick-remove their half of the bargain and close the trade first.
(Yes, I know that's awfully paranoid. But ::shrug:: It works for me. :) )
Casinos don't hurt me. They don't cost me XP like an MPK attempt does, they don't take anything away from me as an alleged RMT does when competing for a NM, they don't bring new gil into an already inflated economy (just shift it around a bit) and they don't insult me personally. I say let them do what they want. If it bothers me to see the text, I turn it off. Easily handled, no stress.
Dwyn
I've never used a casino, don't have any desire to. But they are doing nothing to me. They don't harm me, they rarely even harsh my mellow in Lower Jeuno. If they do, I /blist. I don't waste my time shouting them down, or sending /tells. I tend to review my admittedly small blacklist every so often, and folks who've been tossed onto it for casino shouts are often taken back off not long after. It's just not a big deal to me.
As to the validity, honesty, etc? I say only this:
Caveat Emptor. Let the buyer beware.
I don't let anyone else borrow my gear, I don't loan gil to people (except for a very, very specific set of people who I have trust in going back years).. hell I don't even like to do a /trade exchange if I don't know and trust the person. I prefer to use bazaar, just in case someone might pull a fast one and try to quick-remove their half of the bargain and close the trade first.
(Yes, I know that's awfully paranoid. But ::shrug:: It works for me. :) )
Casinos don't hurt me. They don't cost me XP like an MPK attempt does, they don't take anything away from me as an alleged RMT does when competing for a NM, they don't bring new gil into an already inflated economy (just shift it around a bit) and they don't insult me personally. I say let them do what they want. If it bothers me to see the text, I turn it off. Easily handled, no stress.
Dwyn
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I don't like casinos because it encourages laziness.
I was surprised when I started my casino at how much work it actually turns out to be.. it's not really as easy as you would believe.
Forgive me for not being more explicit. I was referring to the patrons of casinos, not those who run them. It takes miniscule effort to gamble at a casino. The only way it could take less effort was if you did the /randoms yourself and gave the winnings to random players nearby.
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Gambling is.. well.. A gamble. For BOTH sides. You win or you lose. Yes, as the winner, on either side of the fence, someone is benefitting from another. This is really no different than any other aspect of the game.
Every other aspect of the game is the same? I beg to disagree. If I mine up a Darksteel Ore and sell it at the AH, both the buyer and the seller benefit from it. If I whip up some Rolanberry Pies and sell them at the AH, both the buyer and the seller benefit. If I sell someone a Teleport, both the buyer and the seller benefit. If someone pays me X gil to help them farm for G1 items, both sides benefit.
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If YOU get that NM pull, then you're directly benefitting at the expense of another anyway.
There's a big difference between competition and gambling. If I get the big money drop from the NM, it hasn't come at the cost of the others who were also trying to camp it. That drop was never in their possession to begin with, so how have a benefitted at their expense? That's where I think you're analogy doesn't hold. I could camp an NM and get the drop even if no one else was competing with me. Casinos, on the other hand, absolutely require someone to lose in order for there to be a winner.
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Redistribution of wealth is just as important to the economy as wealth creation is, would you not agree? If not for the redistribution of wealth, then RMTs would own the game through and through.. or am I wrong?
This is a point I really don't get. Why is redistributing wealth important? If a rich person pays me 10 bucks to go mow his lawn, that's not "redistributing wealth". He has 10 less dollars, but he has something just as valuable, if not even more valuable -- his time. However, if the government decided to arbitrarily step in and tell that rich person to give me 10 bucks simply because he has too much, and I have too little, that's redistribution of wealth.
And how does it relate to RMTs? RMTs quite specifically don't give up their gil unless they benefit from it (in their case, the benefit they receive is in real life, not in this virtual world).
I have personal moral objections to casinos, and I don't allow them to be run by people with my LS equipped (they can unequip it, problem solved).
That being said, I don't care if others (even LS members - unless it gets back to me that they've been consistently cheating people or being a jackass to people, then I will take issue) choose to gamble or run casinos. That's their business.
I don't filter my chat, and I generally just ignore it in Jeuno. I actually sort of chuckle when I see 2-3 trying to out-spam each other at one time.
The problem, I think, with casinos is that there is a negative stigma attached to them; probably the synergized product of people's moral objections, the random scammers who -do- cheat people, and our very touchy last nerve with RMT (I personally get very pissed off when I see people stand there and blow 17 million gil at a casino... I don't like to accuse... but that just wreaks of gil buying). This is the main reason I ask LS members to unequip if they choose to run one (although to my knowledge none of them participate).
As far as what you choose to do.. it's your choice. I won't flame you for running a casino or gambling your gil.
That being said, I don't care if others (even LS members - unless it gets back to me that they've been consistently cheating people or being a jackass to people, then I will take issue) choose to gamble or run casinos. That's their business.
I don't filter my chat, and I generally just ignore it in Jeuno. I actually sort of chuckle when I see 2-3 trying to out-spam each other at one time.
The problem, I think, with casinos is that there is a negative stigma attached to them; probably the synergized product of people's moral objections, the random scammers who -do- cheat people, and our very touchy last nerve with RMT (I personally get very pissed off when I see people stand there and blow 17 million gil at a casino... I don't like to accuse... but that just wreaks of gil buying). This is the main reason I ask LS members to unequip if they choose to run one (although to my knowledge none of them participate).
As far as what you choose to do.. it's your choice. I won't flame you for running a casino or gambling your gil.
this isnt so much a discussion as the casino runner trying to neuter any opposistion his posistion. You really dont care what we have to say and have a retort for any opposistion we might present. So why not just save us all the time and continue to run your casino.
A few notes:
Vax is on my B-List for saying possibly the stupidest thing ive ever heard in my entire life.
"Equipment affects your hidden Luck stat so I dont wear any gear so my rolls are more average"
That is the biggest load of ********* in the history of this game. GMs will not force anyone to give anythign from thier characther to another. They can jail you if they believe you are beingdishonest but thats the extent of it.
for instance an RMT wanted to buy Minues Cassie earing. He kept trading Minue and putting 6million gil in the window. So minue went to the AH bought an NQ bone earing and traded it to the RMT for 6M + a durandul and some other crap. Minue got jailed but kept the loot.
{Leave}
A few notes:
Vax is on my B-List for saying possibly the stupidest thing ive ever heard in my entire life.
"Equipment affects your hidden Luck stat so I dont wear any gear so my rolls are more average"
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Also, I was talking with Fatty one day (rather abraisive fellow at times) who said that he'd disconnected during a roll, and didn't see it. He logged back in and the customer swore that he'd hit a tripple on a high stakes bid. Not having been online to see the actual roll, Fatty asked the customer to re-roll. This is a hard call. As a casino, I'd want to be in attendance for my 5mil+ loss. As a gambler, I know that the chances of me hitting a second triple are slim to none, so I'd be rather unhappy with this request.
In this situation, Fatty elected to hold on to the bet pending a re-roll, which the customer refused to do. The customer placed a GM call, and the GM checked the logs, and determined that the X3 roll was legitimate. (At this point I'd give the payout with no questions asked.) Fatty apparently elected to tell the GM that he wouldn't payout on a roll he was not around for. The GM jailed Fatty, materialized as a player character and advised Fatty that if he didn't willingly give over, then he (the GM) would be more than happy to take it from him (Fatty.) At this point, Fatty gave the winnings to the GM who, in turn, passed them on to the big winner.
In this situation, Fatty elected to hold on to the bet pending a re-roll, which the customer refused to do. The customer placed a GM call, and the GM checked the logs, and determined that the X3 roll was legitimate. (At this point I'd give the payout with no questions asked.) Fatty apparently elected to tell the GM that he wouldn't payout on a roll he was not around for. The GM jailed Fatty, materialized as a player character and advised Fatty that if he didn't willingly give over, then he (the GM) would be more than happy to take it from him (Fatty.) At this point, Fatty gave the winnings to the GM who, in turn, passed them on to the big winner.
That is the biggest load of ********* in the history of this game. GMs will not force anyone to give anythign from thier characther to another. They can jail you if they believe you are beingdishonest but thats the extent of it.
for instance an RMT wanted to buy Minues Cassie earing. He kept trading Minue and putting 6million gil in the window. So minue went to the AH bought an NQ bone earing and traded it to the RMT for 6M + a durandul and some other crap. Minue got jailed but kept the loot.
{Leave}
Rate ups for all, for not making this a fist fight. Maturity will take you far.
Did Minue really do that? I thought I was bad for going /anon and taking off my RDM armor, offering to teleport RMT, and taking their money. x.x;;
My hat's off to Minue. ^.^
Did Minue really do that? I thought I was bad for going /anon and taking off my RDM armor, offering to teleport RMT, and taking their money. x.x;;
My hat's off to Minue. ^.^
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Did Minue really do that? I thought I was bad for going /anon and taking off my RDM armor, offering to teleport RMT, and taking their money. x.x;;
Yeah he really did do that. For like 3 days after that the LS sent that RMT /tells
{Bone Earing} {Do you need it?} 6,000,000G
was pretty funny
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this isnt so much a discussion as the casino runner trying to neuter any opposistion his posistion. You really dont care what we have to say and have a retort for any opposistion we might present. So why not just save us all the time and continue to run your casino.
Yeah.. it's a discussion forum.. you're allowed to retort O.o
If there is no actual back and forth communiacation, what's the point?
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Vax is on my B-List for saying possibly the stupidest thing ive ever heard in my entire life.
"Equipment affects your hidden Luck stat so I dont wear any gear so my rolls are more average"
"Equipment affects your hidden Luck stat so I dont wear any gear so my rolls are more average"
This is what I have been told, and I happen to believe it.. And you know what? So do all the casinos that run with +steal gear equipped.. They are also the ones that rake in millions of gil at a time.. I never tried changing your religion, I was just stating what I'd heard.. I could care less who's blist I'm on. I do everything I can possibly think of to keep an even playing field for my clients.. If you can't appreciate that.. shrug. I could care less.
There are stats EVERYWHERE that you don't have access to view.. take crafting, and NM drops for instance.. There are different variables in every aspect of the game. If I'd only known that you were the one that did the code for FFXI, I'd have been more than happy to take your word that there is no "luck" stat that we don't have access to view. And since YOU obviously are in the know on EVERY angle, stat, etc., why are you not making a game guide to out do Bradys?
Everyone has different opinions in different facets of the game.
I hardly feel that this makes me "stupid." I think it just makes you "narrow minded."
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I was referring to the patrons of casinos, not those who run them. It takes miniscule effort to gamble at a casino. The only way it could take less effort was if you did the /randoms yourself and gave the winnings to random players nearby.
Agreed.
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Every other aspect of the game is the same?
I left that too broad.. I'm not implying that every aspect of the game is the same.. Rather, I was trying to illustrate that in every situation be it financial, a time factor, or just a bad feeling, in (and I'll rephrase with a word) ALMOST every situation there is a winner and a loser. It's rare that you're going to really have opportunity to mine that darksteel without competition. And when you go to sell it, you're probably going to undercut the cost by a little in order to sell it quicker. So, whoever is mining in the area that doesn't get that darksteel loses, because you've won. When you undercut my price, then you win, I lose...er.. to an extent.
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There's a big difference between competition and gambling. If I get the big money drop from the NM, it hasn't come at the cost of the others who were also trying to camp it. That drop was never in their possession to begin with, so how have a benefitted at their expense?
Winning and losing is competition defined. If you win the pull, I lose. Regardless of the drop. Loss of potential gil is just as disheartening as the loss of gil, especially when you really needed it, no?
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However, if the government decided to arbitrarily step in and tell that rich person to give me 10 bucks simply because he has too much, and I have too little, that's redistribution of wealth.
This happens every year.. it's called tax season :P
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And how does it relate to RMTs? RMTs quite specifically don't give up their gil unless they benefit from it (in their case, the benefit they receive is in real life, not in this virtual world).
Sorry.. I wasn't implying that RMTs do a damn bit of good at all for anyone, let alone in an act of unselfishness. I was trying to imply that if not for the redistribution of wealth, then there is very little hope for smaller members of society (such as myself) who had a really hard time getting decent weapons or armor at lower levels because of inflation caused by RMTs.
Sylvons: I appreciate you having this discussion with me, and I appreciate your position. I appologise that I haven't been exceedingly clear in my points, but I think we both know where the other stands (unless I've chosen my words poorly again.. heh.. believe me.. *I* know what I'm trying to say, just apparently having a hard time phrasing what the heck it is heh.)
Thanks for having the discussion, and killing time with me during this long *** maintenance. :\
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this isnt so much a discussion as the casino runner trying to neuter any opposistion his posistion. You really dont care what we have to say and have a retort for any opposistion we might present. So why not just save us all the time and continue to run your casino.
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Yeah.. it's a discussion forum.. you're allowed to retort O.o
If there is no actual back and forth communiacation, what's the point?
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this isnt so much a discussion as the casino runner trying to neuter any opposistion his posistion. You really dont care what we have to say and have a retort for any opposistion we might present. So why not just save us all the time and continue to run your casino.
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Yeah.. it's a discussion forum.. you're allowed to retort O.o
If there is no actual back and forth communiacation, what's the point?
I could rest my case but I wont.
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This is what I have been told, and I happen to believe it.. And you know what? So do all the casinos that run with +steal gear equipped.. They are also the ones that rake in millions of gil at a time.. I never tried changing your religion, I was just stating what I'd heard.. I could care less who's blist I'm on. I do everything I can possibly think of to keep an even playing field for my clients.. If you can't appreciate that.. shrug. I could care less.
Go into your mog house and random 1000 times. jot down the average.
Put on all the steal gear you can find. Random 1000 times
Compare.
IF there is a statistical deviation Ill give you 10M gil.
This is akin to wearing masks stuffed with rose petals to avoid being infected by "Bad Air" Its a sad day when superstition is given weight when a statistical test can easily proove otherwise. But I geus I should just blame the republicans for further eroding our school system and filling it with witchcraft like intelligent design (which is just about as credible).
Two problems with gaming in FFXI are: the general player pool including minors, and the often deceptive winning ratios offered by the casino owners.
One: Underage gambling:
The laws that protect the minor from being exploited by the casino operators are in place in the real world. If a 13 year-old steps into the slot machine area in Atlantic City, NJ, the security guards would be summoned to quickly escort the minor out of the gambling area. Allowing underaged visitors to the gambling floor would certainly cause the State Game Control Board / Commission to penalize the casino operation. Sometimes the offending minor would also be penalized if the case is due to the minor's deception (using fake IDs, sneaking in and resist removal, etc).
The original concern is about the minors degree of self-control as compared to legal adults. Minors are easier to draw into repeated rolls, according to a report by a study done by a university study conducted awhile ago. Allowing in a minor to gamble is thus highly unethical and criminal.
In real world, casino operators taking advantage over a minor's impulse for the purpose of financial gain is illegal and can have dire consquences if allowed to happen. In FFXI, however, the player would only lose in-game currency. This is less severe, but it illustrates the casino operator's tendency to take advantage over the environment of the game - a virtual world frequented by numerous minors.
Two: 60% odds against you, game on at my fair casino!
Another problem with in-game casino is the amazingly unfair chances as offered by the operators. I've seen 800+ winning rolls have been shouted before, and the 600+ ones aren't much better.
Casinos are not charities. It is a zero-sum game. Somebody winning would translate into someone else losing. This is against the game's philosophy. If one person leveling up meaning another having to level down is FFXI, then nobody would've played it, even if we shout: come play the game, you only have a 60% odds against you for leveling up, you could be the next winner!
A better question:
If you operate casino and not expect to make money, would you still do it?
One: Underage gambling:
The laws that protect the minor from being exploited by the casino operators are in place in the real world. If a 13 year-old steps into the slot machine area in Atlantic City, NJ, the security guards would be summoned to quickly escort the minor out of the gambling area. Allowing underaged visitors to the gambling floor would certainly cause the State Game Control Board / Commission to penalize the casino operation. Sometimes the offending minor would also be penalized if the case is due to the minor's deception (using fake IDs, sneaking in and resist removal, etc).
The original concern is about the minors degree of self-control as compared to legal adults. Minors are easier to draw into repeated rolls, according to a report by a study done by a university study conducted awhile ago. Allowing in a minor to gamble is thus highly unethical and criminal.
In real world, casino operators taking advantage over a minor's impulse for the purpose of financial gain is illegal and can have dire consquences if allowed to happen. In FFXI, however, the player would only lose in-game currency. This is less severe, but it illustrates the casino operator's tendency to take advantage over the environment of the game - a virtual world frequented by numerous minors.
Two: 60% odds against you, game on at my fair casino!
Another problem with in-game casino is the amazingly unfair chances as offered by the operators. I've seen 800+ winning rolls have been shouted before, and the 600+ ones aren't much better.
Casinos are not charities. It is a zero-sum game. Somebody winning would translate into someone else losing. This is against the game's philosophy. If one person leveling up meaning another having to level down is FFXI, then nobody would've played it, even if we shout: come play the game, you only have a 60% odds against you for leveling up, you could be the next winner!
A better question:
If you operate casino and not expect to make money, would you still do it?
Quote:
This is akin to wearing masks stuffed with rose petals to avoid being infected by "Bad Air" Its a sad day when superstition is given weight when a statistical test can easily proove otherwise.
So.. What you're saying is.. YOU tested this before you objected?
Didn't think so..
Quote:
One: Underage gambling:
This is a good point, only minors aren't barred (to my knowledge) from gambling functions not centered around IRL currency.. Again.. I could be wrong..
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Two: 60% odds against you, game on at my fair casino!
10% in favor of the house isn't overly excessive, imho... In the really real world, your chances of winning are even less...
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If you operate casino and not expect to make money, would you still do it?
heh.. yeah.. no :P
I dislike casinos.
For the main fact it makes people LAZY. Sit there an type /random for 2 hours an make/lose all your gil... no thanks.
I personally don't give 2 ****'s what people do with their gil, but I prefer to EARN my stuff... not win it in some stupid luck/chance game.
For the main fact it makes people LAZY. Sit there an type /random for 2 hours an make/lose all your gil... no thanks.
I personally don't give 2 ****'s what people do with their gil, but I prefer to EARN my stuff... not win it in some stupid luck/chance game.
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Quote:
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This is akin to wearing masks stuffed with rose petals to avoid being infected by "Bad Air" Its a sad day when superstition is given weight when a statistical test can easily proove otherwise.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So.. What you're saying is.. YOU tested this before you objected?
Didn't think so..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is akin to wearing masks stuffed with rose petals to avoid being infected by "Bad Air" Its a sad day when superstition is given weight when a statistical test can easily proove otherwise.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So.. What you're saying is.. YOU tested this before you objected?
Didn't think so..
Quote:
IF there is a statistical deviation Ill give you 10M gil.
What are you afraid to make money? Or just afraid to look like a chump, Chump.
Quote:
What are you afraid to make money? Or just afraid to look like a chump, Chump.
LOL .. Hardly ..
1.) I doubt you have 5 let alone 10mil
2.) I already know you're a prick from in-game experience; you wouldn't pay if you could.
YOU'RE the one screaming that you need stats for proof.. You didn't need any stats when you opened your mouth to object. you simply worked off of the assumption that your opinion is correct, and the people that I've had this discussion with were wrong.
I tell ya what, if you want me to run your test, I'd be more than happy to.... Just buy me the gear.. It is, after all, YOUR test I'd be conducting. :)
If anyone's coming off as a chump, it's you, chump. <--- The last word of a sentence isn't capitalized unless it's a proper noun, by the way. :P
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If anyone's coming off as a chump, it's you, chump. <--- The last word of a sentence isn't capitalized unless it's a proper noun, by the way. :P
OTZ attacks on my english the last recourse of a dying man. But since I dont your name (or even your non-Mule name, which by the way your reluctance to run a casino on your main job CLEARLY shows your own opinion of how upright the behavior is) I believe "Chump" is a fair enough title. Soooo yeah it is a proper noun in that sentence T_T.
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LOL .. Hardly ..
If this could be considered a sentence then your earlier statement would seem kinda silly wouldnt it? Naaaaaaaa you have no sense of humour.
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1.) I doubt you have 5 let alone 10mil
Eh believe what you want about me. Im not gonna sit here and spew "z0mg I HAVE THE 1337 GILZ CHUMP". If you want ill track you down and show you my net worth. Which to me seems kinda claseless but ok.
Quote:
YOU'RE the one screaming that you need stats for proof.. You didn't need any stats when you opened your mouth to object. you simply worked off of the assumption that your opinion is correct, and the people that I've had this discussion with were wrong.
OMFG SHE NEEDS PROOOF?!?! BURN THE WITCH! I find your idiocy and lazyness so pathetic. You can easily proove me wrong and yourself right (not only this but solidify the knowledge of this hidden luck stat) by performing a few simple mathmatical functions. Im willing to compensate you for your time and yet you keep finding excuses.
Edited, Fri Oct 21 12:19:16 2005 by troille
25 posts
Wow...
I never seen so many sensetive people...
I really don't care for casinos. I've betted before - rolled a few - won a few - lost a few.
Everyone always wants an easy way out in this game. There are people that run casinos that want to try to make money while risk losing it. There are people that want money fast so they buy gil from a website. There are people that want the latest and greatest armor so they'll get in with a super HNMLS and weasel their way to getting what they want and then leave. There are those that are willing to take around a power leveler just so they can zip through levels while his/her group kills everything.
Point I'm trying to make: People have their own agendas. State your opinion about them and everyone hates you. I can easily go up to any party in Valkrum Dunes and see a PL - I can even go as far as to /say'ing 'You people are lazy cause you can't level on your own'. Would that be the same as /say'ing to some casino 'You're lazy cause you're not working for your money?'
That would be stupid because if there is no exact definition of 'working for $$'. I once knew a person in FFXI that used to kill Orcs in Ghelspa Outpost for gil with THF's TH skill. No big payout there....easy one-hit kills + whatever drops = just extra gil for him. Would that be considered 'working hard for your money and earning it'? People would think that is ridiculous because there are easier ways to make money.
Take, for instance, those people that go to the Crafting Guilds and buy #'s of stacks of items for 10 gil each, only to sell them on the AH for 10k a stack. Would that be considered 'lazy'?
Or how about camping for NMs? People think that if I camp an NM and kill it and it drops the loot that I can sell on AH for 100's of k or million+ gil, then I'm working hard for my $$. Only because in NM hunting, there is value. SE took that away when they changed lizzy and emperor. I do have to agree that it is still a "gamble" when camping NMs - no more than typing /random to see if your numbers beat the person that offered you the challenge. The "gamble" in NM hunting is: If you are willing to spend 15min-4hours+ of your time to kill something that drops a valuable item, you have a risk of losing all that valued time that you used to camp if someone else takes the kill. Why not just go to Jueno, open a trade window and trade # of gil to the person that challenges, type /random and take the same risk without the loss of valued time. Personally, I'm only going to camp and NM if I want the drop to USE...not to sell.
Thats just my opinion though.
You all think what you want. Another point I want to try to make: No one cares. You care about my post just as much as I care about yours. Escalating your personal issues on a single topic overboard just makes you look childish and like a fool because....no one cares.
I never seen so many sensetive people...
I really don't care for casinos. I've betted before - rolled a few - won a few - lost a few.
Everyone always wants an easy way out in this game. There are people that run casinos that want to try to make money while risk losing it. There are people that want money fast so they buy gil from a website. There are people that want the latest and greatest armor so they'll get in with a super HNMLS and weasel their way to getting what they want and then leave. There are those that are willing to take around a power leveler just so they can zip through levels while his/her group kills everything.
Point I'm trying to make: People have their own agendas. State your opinion about them and everyone hates you. I can easily go up to any party in Valkrum Dunes and see a PL - I can even go as far as to /say'ing 'You people are lazy cause you can't level on your own'. Would that be the same as /say'ing to some casino 'You're lazy cause you're not working for your money?'
That would be stupid because if there is no exact definition of 'working for $$'. I once knew a person in FFXI that used to kill Orcs in Ghelspa Outpost for gil with THF's TH skill. No big payout there....easy one-hit kills + whatever drops = just extra gil for him. Would that be considered 'working hard for your money and earning it'? People would think that is ridiculous because there are easier ways to make money.
Take, for instance, those people that go to the Crafting Guilds and buy #'s of stacks of items for 10 gil each, only to sell them on the AH for 10k a stack. Would that be considered 'lazy'?
Or how about camping for NMs? People think that if I camp an NM and kill it and it drops the loot that I can sell on AH for 100's of k or million+ gil, then I'm working hard for my $$. Only because in NM hunting, there is value. SE took that away when they changed lizzy and emperor. I do have to agree that it is still a "gamble" when camping NMs - no more than typing /random to see if your numbers beat the person that offered you the challenge. The "gamble" in NM hunting is: If you are willing to spend 15min-4hours+ of your time to kill something that drops a valuable item, you have a risk of losing all that valued time that you used to camp if someone else takes the kill. Why not just go to Jueno, open a trade window and trade # of gil to the person that challenges, type /random and take the same risk without the loss of valued time. Personally, I'm only going to camp and NM if I want the drop to USE...not to sell.
Thats just my opinion though.
You all think what you want. Another point I want to try to make: No one cares. You care about my post just as much as I care about yours. Escalating your personal issues on a single topic overboard just makes you look childish and like a fool because....no one cares.
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