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#2577 Feb 18 2016 at 8:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Probably rolled on Cliven.

Did they all share a holding cell with the can of gummi wieners?
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#2578 Feb 18 2016 at 9:02 AM Rating: Good
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They were only temporarily gummi, until shower time.
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#2579 Feb 18 2016 at 12:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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The Pope says that use of contraception can be justified in areas hit by the Zika virus.

In lesser news, Trump says that the Pope is terrible and will come crawling to him after ISIS takes over the Vatican or something.
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#2580 Feb 18 2016 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
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I'm liking the cut of this new Pope's jib. There's still a few archaic things I don't agree with, since you'd have to be a brainwashed moran to agree 100% with any single group, but at least he's pushing against some of the nonsense which is progress.
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#2581 Feb 18 2016 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
I'm liking the cut of this new Pope's jib.

It's hard to tell how much of it is genuine and how much of it is from necessity of hedge against substantial loss of relevance. I guess since the two are identical in effect that intent is irrelevant. Catholic are dwindling in the U.S. more so than other Christian sects and they aren't exactly going strong worldwide.

He's been getting more kudos than he deserves. The new pope talks the talk, but very little has substantially changed in the Vatican. They're still working very hard to cover up and downplay the decades long sexual abuse of children, still spreading aids in Africa, still pumping up the abortion rate while fighting against it legally (despite what the USSBC would want you to believe).
#2582 Feb 18 2016 at 9:50 PM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
The new pope talks the talk, but very little has substantially changed in the Vatican.
Well, yeah. It's thousands of years of bullshit to work out of the system. Gotta start somewhere.
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George Carlin wrote:
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#2583 Feb 18 2016 at 10:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hey guys, did you hear that the latest Pope pretty much adheres to the doctrine of the 2,000 year old faith he leads? I know, right??
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Belkira wrote:
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#2584 Feb 18 2016 at 10:23 PM Rating: Good
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Oh I get how deep the hole the church dug themselves into is, but you don't get brownie points from me for merely telling people to dig slower. If he told them to start filling up the hole, he'd be a great person. If he got them to actually do it, he'd be a great pope.
#2585 Feb 19 2016 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
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My bar is low for the Church. Someone just saying dig slower is a pleasant surprise.
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#2586 Feb 19 2016 at 12:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Speaking of the Pope, this time of year McD's always makes a big push on their Fillet-O-Fish sandwiches but they have no non-meat breakfast option unless I want to balance hotcakes on my lap while driving. What's up with that? Throw some sort of egg, cheese and pepper breakfast burrito on your menu or something.

Yes, I know you could order an Egg McMuffin sans ham or something but I don't wanna pay for non-eaten ham, I want an actual Lenten option Smiley: mad
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Belkira wrote:
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#2587 Feb 19 2016 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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Sue for religious persecution!

I'd have thought the Egg McMuffin would already be sans meat, but I can't remember the last time I ate McDonalds breakfast.
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#2588 Feb 19 2016 at 12:07 PM Rating: Decent
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They have pretty decent oatmeal. It's got little bit of brown sugar, apples, raisins, and dried cranberries on top. Since I don't let superstition influence my diet, I normally just go for the bacon and egg bagle though.

Edited, Feb 19th 2016 2:35pm by Turin
#2589 Feb 19 2016 at 12:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hashbrowns are awesome.
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#2590 Feb 19 2016 at 12:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Sue for religious persecution!

I'd have thought the Egg McMuffin would already be sans meat

No, it comes with ham. I sent off a Tweet on the subject which qualifies me as an angry old crank, albeit one with a smartphone.
Turin wrote:
Since I don't let superstition influence my diet, I normally just go for the bacon and egg bagle though.


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Belkira wrote:
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#2591 Feb 19 2016 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
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That's dumb. According to the online menu there's a Sausage McMuffin and Sausage McMuffin with Egg, so it should be named similarly. I'm going to not question the bagel, because the thought of a McDonalds bagel just frightens me.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#2592 Feb 19 2016 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
lolgaxe wrote:
That's dumb. According to the online menu there's a Sausage McMuffin and Sausage McMuffin with Egg, so it should be named similarly. I'm going to not question the bagel, because the thought of a McDonalds bagel just frightens me.

At least they are not pretending to make cronuts.
#2593 Feb 19 2016 at 3:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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I went to that cronut bakery, but didn't feel like standing in line so had a kouign amann instead, which some people consider to be superior anyway :)

I've also made them since and they are outstanding.
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#2594 Feb 19 2016 at 8:08 PM Rating: Good
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Looks like Harper Lee died. A number of people were surprised she was still alive when her last book was released.
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#2595 Feb 19 2016 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Umberto Eco, too. I remember fumbling my way through Foucault's Pendulum back in high school.

Quick, who'll be the third author in the death trifecta?
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Belkira wrote:
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#2596 Feb 19 2016 at 8:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Sure. Because that's a rare thing for someone to do. The use of false ID by journalists during the course of investigation, while not an everyday occurrence, is certainly something that happens often enough that we're all aware of the practice
And yet you can't cite a single occurrence, much less one in a situation which would apply as a comparison to this case.


Eh. Missed this somehow.

Ok. Here's an article discussing the subject. It's generally negative towards the practice, but certainly provide tons of examples of it being done, and that this has been being done for a very long time. I guess I'm just not sure why you keep claiming that this is some kind of unheard of thing. While there's tons of debate among the journalist community about the practice, the very fact that there is a debate proves that this is a practice that has been and still is, used.

What's unheard of is charging the journalists with a felony. That's the one I can't find any examples of. Media outlets being sued for lying to gain access? Sure. Law enforcement stepping in an filing charges? Can't find a single case prior to this one. So yeah, still looks like they got singled out. Can't imagine why...
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#2597 Feb 19 2016 at 8:34 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Umberto Eco, too. I remember fumbling my way through Foucault's Pendulum back in high school.

Quick, who'll be the third author in the death trifecta?


Does Feb. 8th count?
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/feb/08/margaret-forster-award-winning-author-dies

(Just the first hit on search for "author dies february 2016"

Edit:
This one was closer.
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2016/February/Honoring-Charles-Ryrie

Edited, Feb 19th 2016 9:35pm by TirithRR
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#2598 Feb 19 2016 at 8:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
What's unheard of is charging the journalists with a felony.

Probably because the felony level charge is unique to Texas. Hence my saying "Find me a case in Texas". Of course you're not going to find a case in Alabama where the law doesn't exist. Saying "OMG No one gets arrested for this!!" when it's not illegal there is pretty pointless.

I didn't see anything in that article addressing the creation and use of fraudulent government IDs (which is, you know, what the charge is about not just "lying"). I'll accept that I just missed it and wait for you to quote the relevant sections.
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Belkira wrote:
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#2599 Feb 19 2016 at 8:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Never heard of Ryrie. Foster wrote a good biography of du Maurier. I don't think either qualifies in this context, though.
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#2600 Feb 19 2016 at 8:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Addikeys wrote:
Guess what you don't see in this statute?


I already linked this statute. So yeah, I have seen it. And discussed it. Perhaps read my posts first?

Quote:
You use a fake ID in Texas to buy beer, get into a movie or bar, create fake identities to set up fake companies, etc., you can be prosecuted with a misdemeanor. Use a fake ID to "defraud or harm another," you can be prosecuted with a felony.


Yes. And as I have already argued, using the concept of "harm" to include harm caused by revealing truth about the actions of a person or organization to the public by an investigative journalist is far too broad a definition. It would effectively subject all such journalism to criminal action and have a chilling effect on our free press.

I've already made this argument. Repeating the same facts we've already discussed doesn't add anything to the discussion. If you want to argue that it's a good idea to lump this form of harm into this statute (which was intended to deal with harm from stuff like identity theft, not journalism), by all means, make a case for that position. I think it's a terrible legal precedent to set though. And I'm sure that if you stopped and stepped outside the specific details of this one case, and looked at the bigger impact to investigative journalism such an interpretation of the law would require, you would agree.

The same statues would apply if the journalists were investigating a child **** ring, or unlawful waste disposal, or elder abuse in hospice facilities, or any of a number of things that we actually do kinda expect our journalists to spend their time looking at for us. You're kinda tossing out the baby with the bathwater in this case. Don't let your personal position on abortion and planned parenthood cloud the bigger issue.
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#2601 Feb 19 2016 at 9:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
What's unheard of is charging the journalists with a felony.

Probably because the felony level charge is unique to Texas. Hence my saying "Find me a case in Texas". Of course you're not going to find a case in Alabama where the law doesn't exist. Saying "OMG No one gets arrested for this!!" when it's not illegal there is pretty pointless.


Irrelevant. The law in question was never intended to apply to harm from investigative journalism, but was written to deal with identity theft. That it's being so grossly misused is a huge problem. Are you sure that Texas is unique in this? Or that it will always be unique? Isn't it kind of important that we nip this particular misinterpretation in the bud right now before dozens of other states pass similar statues, also with no intent to affect journalism?

The precedent is not just set with regard to this one statue. I think you're missing the forest for the threes. The concept of "harm" is not defined in that one statute, but is presumably used in many statutes, not just in Texas, but all over this country. The precedent is about applying a legal definition of "harm" to harm caused by providing truth about someones activities. So, by this new definition you've invented, if I reveal that my next door neighbor is a child molester, I can potentially suffer legal repercussions under any of a number of civil and criminal actions because by doing so I have clearly caused "harm" to that person. This standard appears to be regardless of the truth or falseness of the claim itself. Note that nowhere in there was the claim that the videos were faked or false had any bearing on the charges being filed. The jury didn't state that it was harm because the claims made were untrue. They merely decided that the facts did not constitute a crime on the part of PP, not that anything in the video was false.

And that's a problematic precedent to set. There are presumably an uncountable number of uses of the word "harm" in various statutes scattered through our legal system. So now, journalists have to navigate a minefield of such statues, hoping that they don't happen to inadvertently violate some law because they "caused harm" while doing something? Oh no, I caused harm to another driver on the road while driving myself, which constitutes felony reckless driving. But the "harm" I did was film him drinking a beer while driving down the street. Tomorrow, I'll accidentally commit a federal crime by filming someone threatening voters to vote for a specific candidate in an election, because by doing so I've "harmed" that person within a polling place during a federal election. Surely you can see how this interpretation could be incredibly problematic. There's no end to the possible ways this could bite us.

Quote:
I didn't see anything in that article addressing the creation and use of fraudulent government IDs (which is, you know, what the charge is about not just "lying"). I'll accept that I just missed it and wait for you to quote the relevant sections.


You weren't reading hard enough then. One section made a point to make a distinction between someone who gave accurate identification when applying for a job, and just hoped the business wouldn't check up on what he wrote, with another who provided fraudulent information. Several other examples strongly suggest that false ID had to be used to obtain the access they did. You're free to pretend that no one ever uses a false ID for this sort of stuff, but that seems inanely naive.

Edited, Feb 19th 2016 7:07pm by gbaji
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