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#27 Feb 27 2006 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
Jawbox the Furtive wrote:
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
If the purpose is to keep people from living in a box, I'd say it's pretty successful.

Well that is the myopic view of it. But I think the point is that maybe the long-term effects of such an arrangement could be as bad or worse than "living in a box."

Interesting. You see it as an either/or type-scenario, and I feel that it takes both. Take either out and you aren't addressing the whole of the problem. If a man gets hit by a car, you don't wait until his primary care physician has an appointment next month and let him bleed in the meantime.

I was thinking more along the lines of preventing the hit-and-run altogether, however fanciful a goal that might be.



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(To be interpreted as bewbz for other thread readers...)

#28 Feb 27 2006 at 4:24 PM Rating: Good
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Jawbox the Furtive wrote:

I was thinking more along the lines of preventing the hit-and-run altogether, however fanciful a goal that might be.

And what do you do with them in the meantime?
#29 Feb 27 2006 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good


Move 'em to Houston and Atlanta! It's their problem now! Suckers...






#30 Feb 27 2006 at 4:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, my brother in Houston tells me it's been quite eventful.

I'll have to dig up the link for it, but I read a news article about thousands of house trailers that were bought, as in paid for, by FEMA to serve as temporary housing... but they can't get approval to move them to New Orleans because it's a flood plain. So they're sitting in Nebraska or Kansas or someplace, no doubt waiting for a tornado to wipe them out. It's funny in a kill-me-now sort of way. What a boondoggle.
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#31 Feb 27 2006 at 4:40 PM Rating: Decent
Katarine, earlier in the thread wrote:
I saw many ***************

[quote=Katarine]Nope, no pics of ******** sorry. I only actually saw one pair to be honest


Smiley: disappointed
#32 Feb 27 2006 at 4:43 PM Rating: Decent
Samira wrote:
Yeah, my brother in Houston tells me it's been quite eventful.

I'll have to dig up the link for it, but I read a news article about thousands of house trailers that were bought, as in paid for, by FEMA to serve as temporary housing... but they can't get approval to move them to New Orleans because it's a flood plain. So they're sitting in Nebraska or Kansas or someplace, no doubt waiting for a tornado to wipe them out. It's funny in a kill-me-now sort of way. What a boondoggle.


They are actually in Hope, AR (about 2 hours from where I live) and there has been all kinds of uproar over them. Some people claim they are sitting in a field and have already suffered some flood damage, but FEMA claims there are no problems.

Some of my wife's family saw them on their way up from Louisianna a couple of weeks ago but they couldn't tell from the highway if any if them had been damaged or not.
#33 Feb 27 2006 at 4:43 PM Rating: Good
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Professor klyia wrote:
Katarine, earlier in the thread wrote:
I saw many ***************

[quote=Katarine]Nope, no pics of ******** sorry. I only actually saw one pair to be honest


Smiley: disappointed

Maybe he meant his own?
#34 Feb 27 2006 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
Maybe he meant his own?


How many does he have?!?!?!
#35 Feb 27 2006 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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Professor klyia wrote:
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
Maybe he meant his own?


How many does he have?!?!?!

Now that I'd like to see pictures of!
#36 Feb 27 2006 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
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Katarine wrote:
Move 'em to Houston and Atlanta! It's their problem now! Suckers...


Actually when a hurricane came near Houston, where many of the refugees were kept, I heard a lot of the refugees went to some other state. Though a fair number are still around it seems.

There have been a few times where some of the ex-Louisiana residents in Houston who were going to school in the public education system seemed to instigated some violence on a number of occasions. You'd think that they'd be a bit more relaxed about the situation possibly considering that the area is probably going to be their home for a while and such things would probably just make things harder on themselves. Though I suppose that's the sort of short sightedness that might've lead to delays to updating the levee system.

Edited, Mon Feb 27 17:41:51 2006 by Vensuvio
#37 Feb 27 2006 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good


Okay, okay, so I exaggerated the ****** viewings. For shame.

And for the record, I only have one pair of ******** Although, since you did say "he," maybe you weren't talking to me....

#38 Feb 27 2006 at 7:49 PM Rating: Good
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Katarine wrote:
So, taking into account the very high minority home ownership, can a government official really say they aren't going to rebuild the 9th, while it it is okay to rebuild in Lake View which is upper middle class and primarily white? They are rebuilding in Lake View, but most of what I saw seemed to be people taking it upon themselves to rebuild with their own savings. The government is helping in some ways though; for instance, they have electricity and the 9th doesn't.



Ding ding ding! There's your answer right there.

The rebuilding in the upper class areas will be done based on those living there choosing to put their own money on the line to rebuild. They are footing the bulk of the bill and they are taking the risk should another flood come along and wash their homes away.

The rebuilding in the poorer areas are based on those living there wanting the government (ie: us) to pay for their homes to be rebuilt. The bulk of the cost burden is not on those who's homes will be rebuilt, but the rest of the taxpayers.

We can debate whether there's sufficient social benefit to using public funds to rebuild homes for these people in a spot likely to flood again, but it's a valid debate to have since it's "our" money being spent to do it.
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#39 Feb 28 2006 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Speaking of rebuilding and what the Feds can or should do to help - I heard on the radio this morning that NONE of the millions pledged by Bush to help rebuild after 9/11 had ever been delivered.

The speaker's issue with it wasn't that the money was owed, particularly - just that it had been voluntarily pledged, and then never delivered. I have no idea if this is true or not.
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#40 Feb 28 2006 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
Professor klyia wrote:
The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
Maybe he meant his own?


How many does he have?!?!?!

Now that I'd like to see pictures of!


Well, since Katarine is a she, I'd guess two. At least.
#41 Feb 28 2006 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
Liberals are cute. The only rational conclusion that can be drawn from the celebration of Mardi Gras in New Orleans this year is that the citizens quite obviously have enough money, so the handout bill can be much smaller now.

That is all.
#42REDACTED, Posted: Feb 28 2006 at 5:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Samy,
#43 Feb 28 2006 at 5:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think I was sufficiently clear for people of average or above intelligence to understand that 1) I wasn't sure about the reliability of the source; and 2) I wasn't sure about the veracity of the account.

I did look it up, and while it appears that about $1.6 of the pledged $20 billion was distributed in some fashion, about half of that will probably be recalled because the limitations placed on its use made it unviable. Also, the IRS apparently improperly taxed about $268 million of the remainder.

Bush doesn't need my help making his administration look bad.
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#44 Feb 28 2006 at 6:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not a city planner for New Orleans but wouldn't it make sense to try to work a mixed income program into the areas that were previously slums, tentaments and otherwise undesirable housing?

As far as poor people complaining about the rebuilding and rich people putting their money on the line, most of the ruined poor housing is going to fall into one of three catagories:
(1) Rental housing. Either apartments or else single family homes but the owners had no claim on the real estate itself and can't do anything to rebuild on the spot because it's not their patch of dirt.

(2) Mortgaged properties. Most likely in foreclosure at this point or close to it. Assuming they don't have the funds to pay off the debt, the bank owns the patch of dirt and, again, there's nothing the "owners" can do to rebuild on it.

(3) Paid-off properties. In this case, it may be a question of whether or not the owners can afford to build a new home there, but no one else is going to be building a rich person's home there either since it's your patch of land. The government might condemn the building and turn it into a vacant lot but it's unlikely that a sweeping eminent domain program is going to take your neighborhood and turn it into condos any time soon.

It is in the region's best interests to get affordable housing available down there as soon as possible since one of the largest issues right now is the labor shortage. A friend of my mother's just accepted a job near New Orleans and when I was talking to him this weekend he mentioned things like Burger King offering a $5,000 signing bonus (I'm sure there's conditions on that) simply because there's no one around to man the counters. Likewise, there are hotels with hundreds of rooms "available" but no where near the staff to clean and maintain them. The "rich" people may have come back and been rebuilding but those who are staying away because they have nothing to come back to are the ones who'd be cooking the burgers, busing tables, changing the hotel linen, etc. The company he's going to work for is one of five or six of its type in the area but the only one even partially operational, partially because no one else has staff.
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#45 Feb 28 2006 at 8:16 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I'm not a city planner for New Orleans but ...


No one else is either! haha. I kill myself... ;)


As to the rest, honestly if there are renters/workers in the area, the properties owned by landlords (aka rental properties) will be rebuilt because they are a source of revenue. The "poor" people working in NO don't have to foot that bill because they didn't before anyway. They just have to be able to pay rent, and if there's a labor shortage, there shouldn't be a problem getting a job sufficient to pay for that rent.


My understanding is that the real problem is a large number of old and run-down homes in the slummier parts of town were destroyed. These were owned by people who couldn't possibly afford to rebuild them, and likely couldn't have afforded to buy them in the first place if the property values hadn't been so depressed over time due to their locations (and in some cases may have been in a family for a long time). In many cases, the old homes on those lots were built long before alot of the modern building standards were created. The costs to rebuild up to code structures on those lots is prohibitive for the current owners of the land, putting them in a rough spot.

The "smart thing" for them to do is to hold out and wait. Move elsewhere. Get a job. Rent a place to live. Wait for a real estate developer to get around to building homes/condos/appartments/whatever on the land and then sell. And I'd bet that's what a lot of those folks are doing. Some, I'm sure, are hoping that the government will step in and clean up their land and rebuild their homes. I wouldn't count on that happening though...
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#46 Feb 28 2006 at 8:32 PM Rating: Decent
In Fresno, California they are planing to hold a Mardi Gras...


Ghetto! Smiley: disappointed
#47 Feb 28 2006 at 11:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
As to the rest, honestly if there are renters/workers in the area, the properties owned by landlords (aka rental properties) will be rebuilt because they are a source of revenue.
You assume that the landlords have a ready source of funds to just up and build a house. Private landlords (i.e people who own one or two homes for rent rather than an aprtment complex) are most likely waiting on insurance settlements, etc before attempting to rebuild and that's if they're planning to at all. If, as you said, the "smart" thing to do is to wait for upper income development to move into the area so why would that apply any less to someone who owns a couple rental properties?

While a rental property may be a source of revenue, we're talking low income renters here. You're not going to be making any money for a good while by the time you level your old condemned properties, build new ones and then find some poor people to move into them for $500 a month. You could perhaps rent them for a lot more than that but that kind of defeats the purpose of low income housing which was the initial argument.

You very well may need some form of government assistance in these areas either in the form of rebuilding or claims under eminent domain. And, no, I'm not advocating the latter but the fact is mid/high income condos usually don't fare well when placed next to blighted ghettos full of abandoned and condemned housing. If the plan is to wait for a big check from a developer for your plot of real estate with a flood damaged tenement, you might be waiting a good while.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#48 Feb 28 2006 at 11:39 PM Rating: Good


All of that makes sense, except that if I was a homeowner or simply building rental properties, there is no way I would rebuild there. When I say that I am for the government helping to rebuild, I suppose I am really saying to fix the levees. There are people in the 9th Ward who are worried that they are going to bulldoze and not allow people to move there anymore instead of doing an expensive levee fix, hence the "do not bulldoze" signs everywhere. I have been heavily considering Tulane law school, and I would certainly make sure I was renting in an area that had not previously flooded until some sort of fix has been put in place.

I am really suprised to see so many people rebuilding in Lake View, considering hurricane season isn't exactly far away.

#49 Mar 01 2006 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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Katarine wrote:


Okay, okay, so I exaggerated the ****** viewings. For shame.

And for the record, I only have one pair of ******** Although, since you did say "he," maybe you weren't talking to me....


Nah, I was. Can't remember if you're a he-male or a she-girl.
#50 Mar 01 2006 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
And now for your useless fact of the day..




Mardi Gras (French) translates directly to "Fat Tuesday".





This has been a useless public service announcement.
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