Changes to the governmentFollow

Hmmm... How about "My political beliefs happen to not include bashing every idea that the Administraion has"?


Funny how political debates end up being "guilt by association". If I don't bash the Republicans at every turn, then I automatically agree with the absolute worse aspectss of the worst Republicans.


Let me show you equally flawed logic: Since you don't slam the Democratic party, I can conclude that you support tree spiking and splashing paint on people who wear fur, right?


You tree-spiking lap dog you. I'm going to hold you directly responsible for the deaths of all those American workers killed just to protect a few trees. Is that ok with you?

Whoa. When did this turn into a flame gbaji thread. Please take a ticket and start your own thread for any complaints about people on the forum and not break up one of the few intelligent conversations here.

Personally, I like the idea put forth in Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein. I don't know if the idea was actually his or if he was just parroting it, but I'm too sleepy and too lazy to bother looking for its origin.

Make everyone perform some sort of civil service in order to obtain a first class citizenship and become voters or able to hold office.

It wouldn't solve all of our problems, but at least the people making the decisions would have invested some of their life to serving the public before they were aloowed to make decisions for it.

That's what I'd do. It couldn't give us any worse results.

Wrong. They killed, raped, enslaved, stole, lied, etc. They were people, some good, some bad. There has never been any time in history when the crap that is going on today wasnt happening. Quit using native americans as some example of how things should be.

Sorry Kelvy I woke up at 4am so im grouchy but really my focus in University is the native peoples of north, central and south america and they are people just like any others they committed atrocities and had atrocities committed on them. The notion of the noble indian who was egalitarian and peaceful or only killed for just reasons is a lie.

To use a quick example because im sleep deprived and not thinking straight lets look at the destruction of Huron culture by the Iroquois. You can blame european involvement but the beef was there and they started a fight that didnt end until the entire Huron nation was wiped out.

Or a certain practice that stemmed in Mexico but spread up through texas almost to the mississipi basin in which captured warriors were forced to compete in a soccer like game that resulted in the loser being executed.

Aztec Empire which was a loose collection of city states suppressed by an army. Cortez came in and gathered the support of oppressed city states to his side and smashed the empire. You dont think he did it with a couple hundred conquistadores do you?

I could go on and on. They oppressed each other, they were oppressed by others, now dont get me wrong they got the short end of the stick by europeans especially in US, Mexico and central america. Massive depopulation due to disease, loss of culture, poverty, exploitation etc. But to try and say that pre-contact indigenous peoples of North and South America were simple people that barely fought and when they did fight it was just "tribal" warfare is to distort history and the truth.


Edited, Tue Jun 29 07:49:51 2004 by bhodisattva

Edited, Tue Jun 29 08:02:16 2004 by bhodisattva

That's just because they had no technology for the job. Don't take me a a hater of Native Americans (I have a bit of that blood in me), but they were just sitting on their asses, technologically.

Native Americans were mostly viewed by European settlers as heathen barbarians with beastly and horrific behaviors. Some of this was culture gap, and some of it was true. A lot of that reputation was earned.

I think you're in love with a myth. Just like any other human beings, the Native Americans did what they could with what they had. Just be glad that nobody had nukes to sell to them.

Nah, I'm an equal temperature opporunity *******. I can be just as big of a jerk in -40 as in +105. I say this only after having proved it. I grew up on a farm in GA. Tossing watermelons, etc. I work for a frozen foods distributor and spend lots of time in the freezer. I also spent time in Alaska. So I've tried the extreme temps out to see if I could find a better sweet spot for my temperment...there just isn't one. At least I'm a happy ******* :)

The Hodenosaunee were North American a confederation yes but they had a government and covered a huge area (thousands and thousands of square miles) and had a number of different native groups but mainly Iroquois, there are other cases to in the american west of a loose collection of tribes that could at times for defense and other reasons gather a central government with access to tens of thousands of people.

Powhatan the father of Pocahontas was the leader of numerous tribes and controlled a large region and many permanent communities. Chief Kwah on the west coast ruled a decent sized population.

Keep making blind assumption about what was and you do two things; 1.make yourself look ignorant and 2.belittle the true history of numerous different peoples.

So we cant say they had government on the scale of the United States right now, but they did have government. It was complex in its own way, there were politics, leaders lying to people. All the things that go on today that you were ******** about just not on the scale that is happening today. But i could name a number of different cultures in asia, africa and even europe that were equivalent of native americans as you like to glamorize them.

you're pretty much right though... they're people just like us who needed somthing to follow.


Ok... show me some evidence that they were polluters.
I guess it just boils down to my tree-huggingness...

Ever hear of the Hopi legends about Flying vehicles and a great weapon that destroyed thousands in a second??

The Maya were intersting too.... their math and calendar system were more complicated than ours.... yet they didn't have the Wheel.... They also knew the circumference of the Earth.


weird stuff.



Also people never stop to think that they actually had cities and towns.... we here jsut think of the land as free of history before we got here.... There s so much we still don't know.... Or maybe there isn't......

hmm.. Europeans deforested AlOT of land...and from waht I here about the water around the more populous areas...... Blech.

..keep into account that me personnally concider Paved Roads pollution.

I think the Romans drove several North African species into extinction..

Come ON.. Let me Glorify in Peace. ;)

Minoans

If you wanna get technical ;)


i think they did it with Stars.


Ever hear of the Cocaine mummies in Egypt?

you are also wrong.

I support Both. figure taht one out, you get a cookie.




Cocaine was apparently found in 4000-6000 year old mummies in Egypt... tobacco as well...but I don't have time for my wacko theories either ATM. but here's the low down: http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/Entomology/courses/en570/papers_2000/wells.html


you really Do know me...

I know I'm wierd.. have found none wierder.

Actually, the mummies tested positve for Cocaine and Tobacco. There's no real proof there. The tests could be reading false positive from other compounds. It happens all the time on real live human beings. Drug tests can set off so many false positives as to be very misleading.