Alas I have come apon a dilemma and just need advice about it :)
Backgroud Situation:
Me and my husband are playing on one of the newer servers (the about 3 month old ones). The guild we are currently in, has aspirations to do end-game. Or so we had thought (and were told... during applying...) which has almost gone poof, they now only want to work on 20/25 mans and NEVER any 40's. The first in-guild ZG run in scheduled soon. Alas... I am almost fully sure we do NOT have the people to pull it off. Currently.. the line up looks like this as a basis.. 5 hunters, 5 war's, 1 mage, 2 priests, 2-off healing classes (druid/shaman). I dont know... based on my experiences so far, I don't know how well that is gonna cut it lol.
We have been running 40's and 20's so far with another guild. With the combined guilds (read about... 30-33 of them, 7-10 of us) we are the only horde on the server with MC, Ony, ZG and AQ20 on farm, and in the learning curve of BWL.
Dilemma:
Me and my husband... are both well, almost fed up with our current guild. Same with the leader of the guild we run end-game with. Basicaly it is going down like this.... once MC got onto farm status, our guild memebers started to, whine about not getting to go. So the other guild leader who runs it all, was kind enough to work out a deal, which included cutting some of his own memebers out of raids at times to make people happy and the alliance between guilds work.
MC is now run 1 day a week, with BWL 2 days. Now.... MC has a waiting list of 50+ people to get in everytime it is run. BWL on the other hand... we had to CANCLE last nights because only 30 people would come (our guild alone had 17 lvl 60's on.....). Funny enough.... we decided to run the first part of MC. WoW!! Those spots did fill up fast from people in my current guild who, when asked.. flat out REFUSED to go to BWL.
The guild we are currently in, basicaly all but 3 of us (2 being me and my husband, other was a main tank turned hunter on this server.) on BWL nights do nothing but complain about wipeing and repair costs. To the point... where our leader told people the day before to "make other plans" so there wouldn't be enough people to work on it....
Possible Soultion:
The guild we run with.. has just opened recruiting again for 1-2 of all classes. W/o talking to their leader, about how he feels, we generaly know we would be more than happily accepted under "normal" circumstances. We spend more time with their guild, have made more friends in their guild, gotten more acomplished with the help of their guild (basicaly... all our attuments were run with them cause as soon as the main leadership clique in our guild got theirs done.. they wouldn't help anyone else and frankly.. with 5+ 60 War's in the guild... I am SICK of tanking as Druid for LBRS and UBRS to help people).
So.... what would you do? Risk the wrath of your current guild? Or stick with it knowing that you get to run with the other guild anyways cause... they like you? Talking to people there.. the atmosphere is completly diffrent. They.. enjoy the learning curve of BWL and such (I get the biggest kick of wipeing for 3+ hrs lol) instead of it being a CONSTANT whine in /g even before we start.
On a note.. the wrath of the current guild might not be such a "big deal". One of the "most hated" people on the server runs with this guild (though he is not guilded by them.. he is in his own one person guild). He is only hated because he is very.. blunt is the best way to put it. When you have 40+ people lvl 60 to do whatever with... does whole server rep mean all that much?
Sorry for such a long post, but I am really at a loss at what to do here. And thanks in advance for any helpful advice!
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Oppions on end-game guild switchingFollow
Switch guilds. They do what you want to be doing, yours doesn't; they have the attitude/atmosphere/spirit which you're after, yours doesn't.
Simple as that, imo :) You and your husband pay your subscription fees, so play as you want to play.
Simple as that, imo :) You and your husband pay your subscription fees, so play as you want to play.
This is purely IMO.
You should do what you want. If you WANT to go to the other guild, go. I wouldn't want to be in a 'hostile' guild, like your appears to be from your explanation. The game is about having fun, and if your not having fun in the current guild, leave. No need to torture yourself.
You should do what you want. If you WANT to go to the other guild, go. I wouldn't want to be in a 'hostile' guild, like your appears to be from your explanation. The game is about having fun, and if your not having fun in the current guild, leave. No need to torture yourself.
Do what is best for you and your husband, just make sure you're open and honest in the process. That should be enough to avoid drama; if not, then drama would have happened anyway.
Some small advice though, take it or leave it... I personally have stuck with guilds because they can do the 40-man raids well and it's not worth it for that reason alone. Make sure you actually like all the people in the big guild before you join. Watch the way they treat all their members, because before long they will treat you the same way. Always assume you'll get the worst of what they dish out to their people lowest on the totem pole. Epics aren't worth verbal abuse on Ventrilo every night. But it sounds like the bigger guild might be nicer than your current smaller guild, so leave that one as fast as you can, IMO.
Good luck, whatever you decide!
Some small advice though, take it or leave it... I personally have stuck with guilds because they can do the 40-man raids well and it's not worth it for that reason alone. Make sure you actually like all the people in the big guild before you join. Watch the way they treat all their members, because before long they will treat you the same way. Always assume you'll get the worst of what they dish out to their people lowest on the totem pole. Epics aren't worth verbal abuse on Ventrilo every night. But it sounds like the bigger guild might be nicer than your current smaller guild, so leave that one as fast as you can, IMO.
Good luck, whatever you decide!
unless someone else is paying your 15 a month then all that matters is you are happy.
I was (well still am) in a great guild, very nice people and well run. We were doing end game, had ZG on farm except jindo. MC up to rag and ony pretty frequently. Then a few people (main tanks whom we had geared up) decided it wasn't right for them and bounced. then they recruited other people from our guild. Pretty soon we couldn't get a ZG or AQ run going. I wanted to stay but at the same time I wanted to raid. I checked with the leader and verified that frequent raiding was off the table at least until after the expansion.
At that point I applied with my mage to an end-game startup led by people who had been there done that and were doing it for the fun and not the loot. I kept my other 60 and all my alts in the original guild but now I get to raid still. I don't feel I abandoned my guild I just moved 1 toon out to do what I Wanted to do.
In the end though do what makes you happy.
I was (well still am) in a great guild, very nice people and well run. We were doing end game, had ZG on farm except jindo. MC up to rag and ony pretty frequently. Then a few people (main tanks whom we had geared up) decided it wasn't right for them and bounced. then they recruited other people from our guild. Pretty soon we couldn't get a ZG or AQ run going. I wanted to stay but at the same time I wanted to raid. I checked with the leader and verified that frequent raiding was off the table at least until after the expansion.
At that point I applied with my mage to an end-game startup led by people who had been there done that and were doing it for the fun and not the loot. I kept my other 60 and all my alts in the original guild but now I get to raid still. I don't feel I abandoned my guild I just moved 1 toon out to do what I Wanted to do.
In the end though do what makes you happy.
Thanks for the advice.
Thehe trust me.. the ratio to people I like in my current guild to the people I like in the bigger guild... is about... oh 10/1 or more?
Noone's gonna like everyone. But I have learned from other games.. it's more about being able to tolerate than nessicarly like lol.
I think I have fully made the decision to talk to the other guild leader and see if he wants us to put in a full app or his oppions on things :)
Esp since... when he wants to complain about people in our guild.. he does it to me or my husband and not the leaders/officers in our guild. What is sad... is I have even told him I agree with him on alot of points which I got lots of :)'s for.
The only reason I had to get oppions is... in all my other end-game experience in other games.. I ended up being like the guild/LS/whatever's peace-maker to make sure things run smoothly between people in vs. people out.
I just worry about leaving the first guild cause, well honestly I don't like leaving people in the lurch. But.. then again, there is the possibilty I will just one day snap and /gquit cause I can't take the complaning over everything lol.
On top of this..... just finding out yesterday... current guild wants to DKP's ZG's we are supsose to be starting running all guild this week. Now... for a 20 man who there aren't even the right classes for, that just seems excessive since well... the ones who are "in" will get to go everytime.. but the ones who aren't won't. And then the ones who aren't.. would probably get crap for going with someone else lol.
Thehe trust me.. the ratio to people I like in my current guild to the people I like in the bigger guild... is about... oh 10/1 or more?
Noone's gonna like everyone. But I have learned from other games.. it's more about being able to tolerate than nessicarly like lol.
I think I have fully made the decision to talk to the other guild leader and see if he wants us to put in a full app or his oppions on things :)
Esp since... when he wants to complain about people in our guild.. he does it to me or my husband and not the leaders/officers in our guild. What is sad... is I have even told him I agree with him on alot of points which I got lots of :)'s for.
The only reason I had to get oppions is... in all my other end-game experience in other games.. I ended up being like the guild/LS/whatever's peace-maker to make sure things run smoothly between people in vs. people out.
I just worry about leaving the first guild cause, well honestly I don't like leaving people in the lurch. But.. then again, there is the possibilty I will just one day snap and /gquit cause I can't take the complaning over everything lol.
On top of this..... just finding out yesterday... current guild wants to DKP's ZG's we are supsose to be starting running all guild this week. Now... for a 20 man who there aren't even the right classes for, that just seems excessive since well... the ones who are "in" will get to go everytime.. but the ones who aren't won't. And then the ones who aren't.. would probably get crap for going with someone else lol.
Like others have said, do what makes YOU happy. If you don't feel like you fit in with the current guild and want to move to the guild who you got a few spots in to raid with, do it. If you want to continue in your current guild, do it. So long as you leave in a nice fashion (aka NOT "***** you guys, i'm going to another guild") I doubt many will find fault with you, and so long as the truth is known (if nasty rumors start spreading or people get rubbed the wrong way by leaving) I highly HIGHLY doubt your overal reputation on the server will be effected. People join, leave, and swap guilds every single day. It is basically a way of life in WoW. Many stay in their current guild for a good long time, but eventually EVERYONE will leave a guild in some way. Whether it is them disbanding, you quiting the game, making a new alt your main, ect...
This is your game and you have to be happy in what your doing. It seems your current guild is just riding the coat-tail of the other guild. Having your guild leader "Tell people to make other plans" is sorta crapy, it sounds like one of two things.
1. They do not want to put in the time or effort to learn new instances until it is almost on farm status to collect epics
2. Or he could just be having folks hold off on running those instances until the Expansion comes out and they can gain a few levels and some better / easier to get gear. (I would hope it is this option but I don't know, has this option been discussed in your current Guild at all that you know of?)
If it seems #1 is the most viable reason then I personally would leave your guild and join up with the other one. You seem to be a much better fit with them and that will make both of you happier.
If it is #2 then I might give them a second chance but you (both) seem like a much better fit in the other guild.
So I would give the Other guild a chance and roll with them, they seem to have their ducks in a row and they seem to have more fun with what they do.
That all I gots to say about that.
1. They do not want to put in the time or effort to learn new instances until it is almost on farm status to collect epics
2. Or he could just be having folks hold off on running those instances until the Expansion comes out and they can gain a few levels and some better / easier to get gear. (I would hope it is this option but I don't know, has this option been discussed in your current Guild at all that you know of?)
If it seems #1 is the most viable reason then I personally would leave your guild and join up with the other one. You seem to be a much better fit with them and that will make both of you happier.
If it is #2 then I might give them a second chance but you (both) seem like a much better fit in the other guild.
So I would give the Other guild a chance and roll with them, they seem to have their ducks in a row and they seem to have more fun with what they do.
That all I gots to say about that.
just read your first post again objectively and you know you'll want to switch.
even if your guild adds more members and eventually does make progress in mc/bwl, they won't get as far as the other. your current guild only does mc because it's easy mode (due to the other guild, not even themselves) and they won't do bwl until someone else has done all the hard work. whichever instance it is, those people will never be there for learning an encounter and dieing all night long and then farming up pots and repairs. they will be there for the epix once the boss is on farm.
pretty easy call, eh?
even if your guild adds more members and eventually does make progress in mc/bwl, they won't get as far as the other. your current guild only does mc because it's easy mode (due to the other guild, not even themselves) and they won't do bwl until someone else has done all the hard work. whichever instance it is, those people will never be there for learning an encounter and dieing all night long and then farming up pots and repairs. they will be there for the epix once the boss is on farm.
pretty easy call, eh?
IMO the way your current guild leader is running things, the guild will either merge with another guild (by merge I mean consumed), become a fresh lvl 60 stepping stone for characters to get little raid experience some pre-raid gear and them move on to better things or even completely /gdisband.
The point of a game is to have fun, if you are constantly worried/complaining about your current situation then just get rid of it. Yes, online reputation can be a big deal cause word-of-mouth spreads quickly, but by your post I can tell that you wouldn't be like "***** all of you losers here, I'm out to go to a guild that will actually progress instead of this piece of ______" Just let them know that you would benefit more from being in the other guild and if they ever wanna talk or need something just give a /tell. It should go over quite well, unless there are idiots who make a big deal about it which people like that usually are the ones with bad reps on servers...not the people who leave to better themselves or to have more fun.
My guild got to a great point of where we could've put MC on farm and progressed into BWL but a lot of the original players that got a little better gear went on to more established guilds. We are actually now pulling ourselves out of that 'stepping stone' rut and have been heading into MC 3-4 times a week :P Although those players left, they left in good standing and they have been told that if they ever want to come back they are in. We all still talk on our guild forums and in-game and some of them occasionally run instances/raids with us when they are bored or we need a certain class.
Edited, Nov 30th 2006 9:15am by Darister
The point of a game is to have fun, if you are constantly worried/complaining about your current situation then just get rid of it. Yes, online reputation can be a big deal cause word-of-mouth spreads quickly, but by your post I can tell that you wouldn't be like "***** all of you losers here, I'm out to go to a guild that will actually progress instead of this piece of ______" Just let them know that you would benefit more from being in the other guild and if they ever wanna talk or need something just give a /tell. It should go over quite well, unless there are idiots who make a big deal about it which people like that usually are the ones with bad reps on servers...not the people who leave to better themselves or to have more fun.
My guild got to a great point of where we could've put MC on farm and progressed into BWL but a lot of the original players that got a little better gear went on to more established guilds. We are actually now pulling ourselves out of that 'stepping stone' rut and have been heading into MC 3-4 times a week :P Although those players left, they left in good standing and they have been told that if they ever want to come back they are in. We all still talk on our guild forums and in-game and some of them occasionally run instances/raids with us when they are bored or we need a certain class.
Edited, Nov 30th 2006 9:15am by Darister
Ah ye old farming epic ***** problem.
Easy solution: give everyone who comes to a wipe raid (BWL) a garantueed spot in the MC (farm) raid.
Works like a charm.
Leaving the guild could give you bad reputation, especially if you join a guild who's "further" then youre current guild. Then looks like you have used youre current guild as stepping stone and a lot of old guildmemebers who may have become online friends will disrepect you, also if you change youre mind or find out that the grass isnt greener on the other side and want to rejoin youre old guild it might be impossible...
Our guild never retook people who left for "greener pastures", (epeen increases by 1) 9/10 people that left our guild for "greener pastures" came crawling back within 2 weeks bc we are not running the raid as in the militairy.
Edited, Nov 30th 2006 10:36am by Sjans
Easy solution: give everyone who comes to a wipe raid (BWL) a garantueed spot in the MC (farm) raid.
Works like a charm.
Leaving the guild could give you bad reputation, especially if you join a guild who's "further" then youre current guild. Then looks like you have used youre current guild as stepping stone and a lot of old guildmemebers who may have become online friends will disrepect you, also if you change youre mind or find out that the grass isnt greener on the other side and want to rejoin youre old guild it might be impossible...
Our guild never retook people who left for "greener pastures", (epeen increases by 1) 9/10 people that left our guild for "greener pastures" came crawling back within 2 weeks bc we are not running the raid as in the militairy.
Edited, Nov 30th 2006 10:36am by Sjans
When Burning Crusade comes out in a month and a half no one will be running Molten Core. My bet is that Naxx will be the only 40 man that sees regular runs.
I would not worry about 40 man content when deciding on whether to stay with my guild. I would worry about whether there was a core of people that I liked and could play with during the times I was online. Unless you are pretty darn hard core it is going to take you at least a few months to get to the 25 man content in BC. Who knows what your guild will look like by then? You could jump to a new guild that never gets its act together for the level 70 stuff while your old guild could fill out nicely by May 2007.
My current guild starts all there runs at 6pm or 8pm EST. I don't log in until 9pm after my son is in bed, so I miss a lot of our ZQ, AQ20, and MC runs. I am hanging on because there are quite a few guild members that I enjoy playing with and I look forward to running the BC 5, 10 and 15 man content with them. When our guild starts running 25 man stuff I will worry about their schedule then. I'll have better knowledge about whether my guild can meet my needs plus the options out there for me if I decide to leave.
Edit:
Woops! guess I should read your WHOLE post before replying. Sounds like the guild fails the "Do I like the people in my guild?" check. I would not switch to your new guild unless I was comfortable with the people in it. Switching to run an instance for a month and a half is a bad reason to leave a guild, but it sounds like you are having more fun and are more compatible with these new people, so switch away.
Edited, Nov 30th 2006 12:12pm by thailfi
Edited, Nov 30th 2006 12:18pm by thailfi
I would not worry about 40 man content when deciding on whether to stay with my guild. I would worry about whether there was a core of people that I liked and could play with during the times I was online. Unless you are pretty darn hard core it is going to take you at least a few months to get to the 25 man content in BC. Who knows what your guild will look like by then? You could jump to a new guild that never gets its act together for the level 70 stuff while your old guild could fill out nicely by May 2007.
My current guild starts all there runs at 6pm or 8pm EST. I don't log in until 9pm after my son is in bed, so I miss a lot of our ZQ, AQ20, and MC runs. I am hanging on because there are quite a few guild members that I enjoy playing with and I look forward to running the BC 5, 10 and 15 man content with them. When our guild starts running 25 man stuff I will worry about their schedule then. I'll have better knowledge about whether my guild can meet my needs plus the options out there for me if I decide to leave.
Edit:
Woops! guess I should read your WHOLE post before replying. Sounds like the guild fails the "Do I like the people in my guild?" check. I would not switch to your new guild unless I was comfortable with the people in it. Switching to run an instance for a month and a half is a bad reason to leave a guild, but it sounds like you are having more fun and are more compatible with these new people, so switch away.
Edited, Nov 30th 2006 12:12pm by thailfi
Edited, Nov 30th 2006 12:18pm by thailfi
Do what you want, but the other guild seems better to me. Just do what you want.
Now, if it was me I would try to get into the single-man guild, and bugg the hell out of that guy til he invited me. Just what I would do :P
Now, if it was me I would try to get into the single-man guild, and bugg the hell out of that guy til he invited me. Just what I would do :P
Transfers are always an option.
As others have said - do what makes you happy. As long as your expectations are realistic and you aren't burning bridges in the process of leaving your old guild, switching guilds to one that can better give you what you want is completely acceptable.
Yes, some people will hate your for it. Let them - you cant please everyone. I've been in 3 guilds in my WoW career, the first of which I was in for over a year and a half. That guild was filled with drama and turmoil and a leader who was unwilling to take the nessesary steps to fix the problems that plagued the guilds quickly dwindling progress.
So after much thought, I left and joined another guild who had their **** together. For a long time the leader hated my guts for it, insisting I was another person who was 8/8 t2 who jumped ship for greener pastures [my current guild is top on the server and amongst the top us guilds so i took alot of slack for it].. but you know what? That was hardly the case.
I was an active member of my old guild and regularly voiced my concerns and tried to take steps to fix them. But the leader wouldnt budge. Make your guild a good place for your members to be, or they will find somewhere else that is. And you will have no one to blame but yourself.
Don't let people guilt trip you into staying in a guild that isnt giving you what you're looking for out of WoW and is taking no steps to help that happen or make the overall guild a better place to be. You dont owe them anything if they dont want to change.
Yes, some people will hate your for it. Let them - you cant please everyone. I've been in 3 guilds in my WoW career, the first of which I was in for over a year and a half. That guild was filled with drama and turmoil and a leader who was unwilling to take the nessesary steps to fix the problems that plagued the guilds quickly dwindling progress.
So after much thought, I left and joined another guild who had their **** together. For a long time the leader hated my guts for it, insisting I was another person who was 8/8 t2 who jumped ship for greener pastures [my current guild is top on the server and amongst the top us guilds so i took alot of slack for it].. but you know what? That was hardly the case.
I was an active member of my old guild and regularly voiced my concerns and tried to take steps to fix them. But the leader wouldnt budge. Make your guild a good place for your members to be, or they will find somewhere else that is. And you will have no one to blame but yourself.
Don't let people guilt trip you into staying in a guild that isnt giving you what you're looking for out of WoW and is taking no steps to help that happen or make the overall guild a better place to be. You dont owe them anything if they dont want to change.
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