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GW2 did dungeon branching, but it basically meant after a certain point (usually a selection at the start), the other parts get blocked off. As a result, speedrunning the most efficient path became the norm for tokens, which translated to gear.

Dungeons being entirely randomly generated is probably the wiser thing to approach. The concept DOES exist in gaming, be it Lufia's Ancient Cave, a staple to ARPGs like Diablo, or even within MMOs like XI's Nyzul. Mechanically, all it really was was map chunks serving as puzzle pieces, each connected with a start point and and an end in mind. Depending on how the puzzle game together, sometimes there'd be more than one path, but there'd also be dead ends. In a more ideal situation, full clears should be preferred over just zipping to a boss or whatever, but this tends to require "trash mobs" mattering, which I'd argue isn't the case in XIV dungeons unless they're linked to opening a door or something.

Anyway, specific dungeons should get their own tile set. An icy cavern would, expectantly, have a bunch of icy cave-type pieces. As a result, you wouldn't see some fiery magma chunk of the map unless there was a good reason for that to be there. These areas would also be populated with an expected set of mobs. In a crypt? Yeah, should probably expect ghosts, skeletons, spiders, and other sorts of creepy crawlies. Then again, bosses don't always need to follow these rules, especially if they represent a sentient species like an NPC humanoid. Entering some kind of screwy nightmare world? Throw out the rules, enjoy everything mix-and-matched.

For me, I'd be more about running dungeons in MMOs if this was the norm, but I'm still loathe of the waiting that's often associated with getting a sensible group together. So, as with my last post and difficulty scaling in mind, solo dungeons should be a thing for those who desire it, too. Or any other party configuration between 1-8 in XIV's case. Not fitting into the Light/Full dynamic can risk people feeling left out, which also tied into stuff like Coil's lockout being a nuisance if you 9 people in your FC, but only 8 could be included.

I normally don't post that much here, due to various reason, but I felt compelled to. FFXIV's story reminds me of WoTG, and not in a good way. There are some interesting tidbits and also interesting developments, but it's really littered with padding. Too often a matter gets dropped "because you have to do something else". While there's nothing inerently wrong with this, in 2.4 (Which was, for me, the least unsatisfactory in terms of story) for example it happens at least four times. There are even a couple events in which the NPCs are really dumber than the player character Spoilerthe whole following the traitor quests, in which it's pretty evident that the guards are going to be fooled. In a couple cases I actually wanted to see what happens but no, "you're needed elsewhere".... XI had its fair amount of padding, as the infamous Parramo Tor climb can testify. WoTG was terrible in that regard (and I have to argue it didn't show the Crystal War at all, instead it "ruined" a lot of characters and didn't show the most important part). XIV though has a lot of menial tasks which are understandable in the vanilla version, but less in the patches. More than the Warrior of Light, the character looks like an errand boy/girl sometimes.

IMO the pinnacle in the FF online games as far as story goes, is CoP . FFXIV 2.x has opened at least a million of storylines, and I can't see a single patch to be able to wrap them nicely (Hildibrand quests are instead on track for a good conclusion, at least in my opinion), even if it's split in three. I really don't want the Ascian storyline to go on into the expansion, as it's not particularly interesting, at least for now.

Another thing I don't like it's that the team thinks every story mission needs to get a Primal fight. Why? Not to mention, save for 2.3, the story basically ended after defeating such Primal.

Also, but that's nitpicking, I really wish the naming conventions and dialogues had been made consistent between the Japanese and the English script. I use the Japanese audio (being on a JP server and knowing the language as well, but the client is the English one) and the differences in names and concepts - the actual story content is the same - can be jarring to my ears (for example SpoilerZodiark in the Japanese script is being referred as "Sagittarian", IIRC.

The problem with WotG is that the storyline was not just spread out over time, it was spread out over players, because they wanted to have the three nation stories again. When only a third of the already fairly small playerbase is able to access a mission, the odds of that mission getting done in a timely manner are quite literally cut down by two thirds.

I spent about two years stuck on A Feast For Gnats because I could never find five other Windurstians willing to do it. It eventually took joining a static which had the goal of finishing ALL the WotG stories to knock that fight out, 24 levels higher than the fight was intended to be completed at.

I don't recall the nation sections being limited like that. I did all the missions from all three nations with no issues.

I agree... I remember low level races to Jueno in my LS, That was fun.. I remember my first time too Jeuno, that was a huge accomplishment. I was so excited.
I remember opening up outposts.
I miss being scared of what was around the corner when I just got to the level to go to a new area. Stunk if you died though because you agroed to much, but it added some excitement.


Edited, Jan 6th 2015 4:47pm by Nashred

A simple solution to dungeons (or raids) that are branched is to give them unique drops for each branch that are desired.

Take the current Zodiac step for instance. Key items dropped through various dungeons are required for upgrades. Instead of having it be multiple dungeons, they can drop from multiple different paths. That will keep the interest in more than just the efficiency routes.

As far as the debate about filler quests and distractions. I like how the FFXIV team is self-aware in this case and makes light of it. Titan Storymode quest line was an example in this. They know they are padding, but they make effort to make some of that padding amusing at least.

I only really felt the padding in 2.1, when I was forced to go and do many, many Guildhests to catch up on them. (Didn't touch them as a 50 Legacy Dragoon, no point.) Past that point, I really didn't feel it. It might have been fetch quests, but they were interspersed and had story and lore developments placed in them. Defenders of Eorzea and Dreams of Ice in particular stuck out as a good job doing storyboarding, mixing tasks and giving us reason to be here.

Sure, if you click through, ignore the text and the cut-scenes, it was same old fare - But I don't.

That said, it's ok to disagree, everyone interprets things differently. CoP, eh... the story probably would have had a better impact for me if I wasn't stuck arranging Promyvon clears for people over and over again. I enjoyed the Vanilla/RotZ story more. The only fight that thrilled me more than Divine Might was To Kill a Raven.

When I'm talking about the story I'm not actually mentioning the execution (and CoP had its fair number of issues).

Let's make a few comparisons: In XIV we have some political plot (including the Ishgard part), then there's underlying Ascian menace...which are "haha-type" villains with no real motivation, at least for now. Sometimes the game touches interesting aspects (the situation of Ul'dah and the refuges, Ala Mhigo, etc.) but I think it's mostly shadowed by the Primal/Warrior of the Light aspect. Also, every patch new storylines are opened, while technically speaking we should be in the "descending" part of the storyline.

XI vanilla, RoTZ and CoP were part of the same narrative, both highest point and the biggest problem, as I'll explain later. Vanilla and RotZ have mostly standard type stories, though some city missions are more interesting (see how the SOB quests integrate into the Windurst story). CoP's signature theme, among others, is fighting against destiny. For the entire game the player does things that are called useless by the NPCs (i.e. fighting a losing battle) finding an alternative between two disastrous outcomes. Nothing really "deep" or new, but more interesting than XIV's "Warrior of Light" fare. Not to mention it does close a lot of the RoTZ/Vanilla details, and has some interesting revelations. The downside is that clearly no one thought about what to do after CoP, with the result that all the following expansions are completely separate and - at least till WoTG - not very satisfying (talking about story, not the rest).

XIV's story isn't particularly satisfying for me, again, at least for now. I'm curious to see what 2.5 will bring.

The last time I played was in November and even then you couldn't get enough people together to kill an A rank most days on Ultros. A few people might show up, but not enough to get the job done.

WotG had a bizarre system of individual nation quest lines and shared main story missions. This would have been fine, but the individual nation quest lines were required to advance in the missions, and they required a party to complete. There were two everyone seemed to get stuck on - the Behemoth fight for Sandy, and A Feast for Gnats, the gauntlet fight against 30 or so Yagudo in Windurst where you had to keep the NPCs alive, and keep at least one party member alive. It was still quite difficult to do even at level 99 before Adoulin gear was added in, if you didn't have a full party. I think my static finally did it with four. (Once the iLvl Adoulin gear started getting added in, all pre-Adoulin content was essentially nerfed, and I think a duo could complete that fight today.)

You didn't have to switch allegiance, at least. But the quests for each nation were long and time consuming enough on their own.

Yea, on the weekend their might be some doing them. But there is no reason, they made the gear obsolete, they dont drop the new tomes. Took away any reason to do them..

I will say this it is far more fun to take them down with smaller groups now when you can get one.. It feels like a accomplishment and requires some skill... Way more fun.




Edited, Jan 7th 2015 9:55am by Nashred

Oh, it'd be nice if they dropped the price of the soldiery upgrade items and replaced them with the ironworks upgrade items at the current prices. That'd be fabulous.

I am really hoping that there is more danger in the expansion. Leashed mobs **** me off so much. I never feel at risk. I don't feel anything's dangerous. With the exception of toads, mobs don't draw in. I think we need some safer areas (and it makes sense for those to be around towns) but now I want to see the world to get more dangerous. I want to feel I have to be careful moving around the place. I miss the aggro mechanics in XI quite a lot. I completely understand a level 10 character doesn't need to be eaten alive every time they step outside the zone but now we need the training wheels to come off.

I'm interested to see how much customisation there's going to be for the Au Ra. It may be that they created promotional characters set to appeal to the wider community and in fact you can make your dragon (goat) guy or gal look far more different than those in the promo material.

I want to know more about the new jobs but on the surface, all three interest me.

More danger and more randomisation would be great. Dungeon areas we can explore would be great. Less restriction on how we enter and approach existing 2.0 content would also be great.

In terms of my favourite event styles in XI, I'd like to see Limbus, Assaults, Salvage and Nyzul Isle style events.

I don't think it is ever possible to design a game that would please everyone. It is a mistake for the developers to try to please everyone as that is impossible. It would be the best if developers to have specific ideas to where they want to take the game, and knowing that, no matter what you do, you will get angry rants and complaints over the Internet. Hence, it is best for developers to work with players (hardcore or casual) who enjoy the game and can provide positive feedback to see how to make game better.

I personally don't like certain games, so I would just leave them be regardless how "popular" they may be. I had played FF14 for awhile, and it became boring to me because I didn't like linear style of progression and repeative style on certain contents. On my last day, I just ninjaed put all my Gil in the FC chest, and post on FC site that I wish them best of luck (and you can have my Gil :-P). I try to not make a big fuss when I quit, but I think my FC mates did miss me.

PS: Jeuno dashes were fun. I really loved them :3 I ran my level 1 midget mule from tree town to Jeuno. It had the best mule name as well - "Tarusarecute".

Edited, Jan 10th 2015 2:21pm by scchan

Edited, Jan 10th 2015 2:22pm by scchan