Several Japanese players were very kind to me when I first started out in Bastok with a '?' over my head. They gave me a tour with bad English and the translator, and helped a lot.
I really like that there are people in the game who aren't English -- it's fun to have lots of different people playing.
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Japanese Players & my observationsFollow
Thank you!
Great post, well written, good answers.
Ive played for almost a year now and experienced much of what is discussed here. And i have to admit that it sometimes shames me to be taken for an NA player.
If i get an invite from a JP-player i always reply with "(Please forgive me) Watashi wa subiden-jin rate me down. (I dont speak any Japanese)" This meaning "I am swedish" I also, whenever i dont feel like partying and still wish not to be /anon, put "SWE PT ONRY =P" in my search comment.
This leads to quite a few interesting conversations (mostly people who ask how often i get swedish invites) but i like to remind people that there are other cultures, if only by saying "sorry guys im on CET, i have to go to bed soon".
The FFXI community is diverse, it leads to culture-crocks at times. But as long as we are willing to learn new things we will grow from this, and the closeminded people will tire and go play other things.
I have been partying during american hours today so forgive me if i ramble as it is now 6am.
Once more thank you!
Great post, well written, good answers.
Ive played for almost a year now and experienced much of what is discussed here. And i have to admit that it sometimes shames me to be taken for an NA player.
If i get an invite from a JP-player i always reply with "(Please forgive me) Watashi wa subiden-jin rate me down. (I dont speak any Japanese)" This meaning "I am swedish" I also, whenever i dont feel like partying and still wish not to be /anon, put "SWE PT ONRY =P" in my search comment.
This leads to quite a few interesting conversations (mostly people who ask how often i get swedish invites) but i like to remind people that there are other cultures, if only by saying "sorry guys im on CET, i have to go to bed soon".
The FFXI community is diverse, it leads to culture-crocks at times. But as long as we are willing to learn new things we will grow from this, and the closeminded people will tire and go play other things.
I have been partying during american hours today so forgive me if i ramble as it is now 6am.
Once more thank you!
jeez, i didnt know when you check a jp player that is something different on their screen then when someone does it to NA. still though, no matter what it says..out of commen sense, they should still know that it is not ment to be anything negative by the /checking person...its ussualy just to be curious or see why they are so good/bad.
Great post =)
Yes, but practices that players of English speaking backgrounds may take for granted as "common sense" may not necessarily be considered "common sense" in other cultures.
Edited, Mon Jan 31 00:40:04 2005 by Leenabeans
drkone wrote:
jeez, i didnt know when you check a jp player that is something different on their screen then when someone does it to NA. still though, no matter what it says..out of commen sense, they should still know that it is not ment to be anything negative by the /checking person...its ussualy just to be curious or see why they are so good/bad.
Yes, but practices that players of English speaking backgrounds may take for granted as "common sense" may not necessarily be considered "common sense" in other cultures.
Edited, Mon Jan 31 00:40:04 2005 by Leenabeans
31 posts
Wow... whoever doesn't agree with the OP or not praising Japanese gets rated down. Very interesting "great post" guys. Seriously this post is begining to make me think "Everyone should respect Japanese and Japanese do not need to show any respect to other races."
I do agree with the topic poster but, please note that the Japanese players should too, understand the English culture, things should not go one-sided when it comes to such issue. FFXI is no longer a Japanese only game, and I never see any Japanese would ever defend the US players, begging them to understand different culture. Reason? Because no one would listen to them. Please, show me a BBS with ANY successful example. Do you think its fair? I don't.
But somehow, I have seen a Japanese poll regarding the EN players quite long time ago and following are some highlights:
*Note that they may be outdated due to the poll itself disappeared a few months ago.*
Q:"Do you like being checked?"
"I don't really bother if they don't overdo it." (50%)
"If they are my friends, fine with me." (30%)
"I don't like check, no matter if I filter, checking without asking is still wrong." (20%)
Q:"Why don't you use the filter if some checked you? Simple and clean."
"Troublesome." (50%)
"No way! I won't be able to know if anyone has checked me if I do so!" (40%)
"Where can I toggle it?" (5%)
"Others" (5%)
Q:"What do you think about EN players?"
"I do not speak English. Thats the reason I don't party with them to avoid communication trouble during party." (20%)
"Nothing special" (15%)
"If I have a chance, I will try to reach them." (15%)
"Would love to keep in contact with them." (10%)
"I have many English speaking friends. I love playing with them." (10%)
"Others" (10%)
"I don't wanna cause them trouble understanding what we are talking." (10%)
"I just can't stand their playstyles. They are full of themselves (leaving in a sudden etc)" (5%)
"They are the one who started RMT, MPK and cheating." (3%)
"They are just irrating. Go back to your own countries!" (2%)
Lastly, how about someone go post in a huge community site and explain what the NA player thinks? Sorry I am not gonna do it. I have tried many times but no one would ever listen but bashing.
Okay now, rate me down because I say bad about the JPNs... :p
I do agree with the topic poster but, please note that the Japanese players should too, understand the English culture, things should not go one-sided when it comes to such issue. FFXI is no longer a Japanese only game, and I never see any Japanese would ever defend the US players, begging them to understand different culture. Reason? Because no one would listen to them. Please, show me a BBS with ANY successful example. Do you think its fair? I don't.
But somehow, I have seen a Japanese poll regarding the EN players quite long time ago and following are some highlights:
*Note that they may be outdated due to the poll itself disappeared a few months ago.*
Q:"Do you like being checked?"
"I don't really bother if they don't overdo it." (50%)
"If they are my friends, fine with me." (30%)
"I don't like check, no matter if I filter, checking without asking is still wrong." (20%)
Q:"Why don't you use the filter if some checked you? Simple and clean."
"Troublesome." (50%)
"No way! I won't be able to know if anyone has checked me if I do so!" (40%)
"Where can I toggle it?" (5%)
"Others" (5%)
Q:"What do you think about EN players?"
"I do not speak English. Thats the reason I don't party with them to avoid communication trouble during party." (20%)
"Nothing special" (15%)
"If I have a chance, I will try to reach them." (15%)
"Would love to keep in contact with them." (10%)
"I have many English speaking friends. I love playing with them." (10%)
"Others" (10%)
"I don't wanna cause them trouble understanding what we are talking." (10%)
"I just can't stand their playstyles. They are full of themselves (leaving in a sudden etc)" (5%)
"They are the one who started RMT, MPK and cheating." (3%)
"They are just irrating. Go back to your own countries!" (2%)
Lastly, how about someone go post in a huge community site and explain what the NA player thinks? Sorry I am not gonna do it. I have tried many times but no one would ever listen but bashing.
Okay now, rate me down because I say bad about the JPNs... :p
(w00t.. down goes my karma again...)
Thanks for the awesome post. Yes, sometimes the language barrier is rough, but the Japanese parties I've been in, I've tried very hard to communicate (having taken some Japanese in high school & invested in a Japanese-English dictionary-- I'm not good but I really try) and be respectful. It's very difficult when you're writing possibly misspelled romanji out of a dictionary. >.< Just as I'm sure it is for them to try to input Roman characters into their chat log.
=^.^= I'd rate up if I could!
Thanks for the awesome post. Yes, sometimes the language barrier is rough, but the Japanese parties I've been in, I've tried very hard to communicate (having taken some Japanese in high school & invested in a Japanese-English dictionary-- I'm not good but I really try) and be respectful. It's very difficult when you're writing possibly misspelled romanji out of a dictionary. >.< Just as I'm sure it is for them to try to input Roman characters into their chat log.
=^.^= I'd rate up if I could!
4 posts
My experience with jp is simple no jp party's till i hit rank5 then 70% of the members are jp or e/jp. Im a high lvl crafter 80+ cooking and 50+ fishing. I allways have high level food in my bazzar. They remeber me I think because i sell alot of food to jp. I allways use the translator and dont talk much in partys and I know skill chains. thats all you need to get the jp party's and good gear :)
Quote:
I do agree with the topic poster but, please note that the Japanese players should too, understand the English culture, things should not go one-sided when it comes to such issue. FFXI is no longer a Japanese only game, and I never see any Japanese would ever defend the US players, begging them to understand different culture. Reason? Because no one would listen to them. Please, show me a BBS with ANY successful example. Do you think its fair? I don't.
My HNM LS in shiva is created by a japanese. and also have a few high lvl HK players to begin the help. Rikako starte Extreme when NA first arrived and we were successfully get to top lvl.
with a merge with other NA lS, we began out sky tour. some HK player like myself and Rikako fed them with all the information they need for HNMs. and we are now one of the top NA HNM LS who killed tiamat. does that the success story you want to hear?
it shows that NA, JP can work together.
If I could rate you up I would. Great post, but if you don't mind I would like to pick away at something.
You were talking about how they were all eager to party with us until they saw our "n00bish" behavior. But we were n00bs, no other NAs could show us the way, we needed help. They should have known to be more patient and understand they were like that too.
When the Europeans joined the game a bunch of NAs didn't get fed up and say European Party No Thanks. Most of us took the time to help out as much as possible to make better players. I think the Japanese are partly to blame for their ignorance on this.
Also NAs being mostly gil buyers. I bet you we are. I haven't bought gil yet, but sometimes it is tempting. You want those cool items and you want people to awe at you and invite you over the next guy. I am going to say something that may be controversial, but, I don't think gil buying is bad. If people want to spend their hard earned dollars to better their experience in the game, why not, some people need this game to unwind, this is like racing cars to them, do you yell at a guy who is racing cars for buying upgrades? Basically I don't think it ruins the economy, but rather helps it. Yes I know most sold gil is going back to gil sellers in the end, but think about the crafters who make these expensive items and sell them, they get the gil, and a lot of these items that are so expensive can only be crafted so they make out a lot and then they turn around and buy the materials to make more from the people who sell the smaller stuff, in effect keeping this economy going the only true way it can.
You were talking about how they were all eager to party with us until they saw our "n00bish" behavior. But we were n00bs, no other NAs could show us the way, we needed help. They should have known to be more patient and understand they were like that too.
When the Europeans joined the game a bunch of NAs didn't get fed up and say European Party No Thanks. Most of us took the time to help out as much as possible to make better players. I think the Japanese are partly to blame for their ignorance on this.
Also NAs being mostly gil buyers. I bet you we are. I haven't bought gil yet, but sometimes it is tempting. You want those cool items and you want people to awe at you and invite you over the next guy. I am going to say something that may be controversial, but, I don't think gil buying is bad. If people want to spend their hard earned dollars to better their experience in the game, why not, some people need this game to unwind, this is like racing cars to them, do you yell at a guy who is racing cars for buying upgrades? Basically I don't think it ruins the economy, but rather helps it. Yes I know most sold gil is going back to gil sellers in the end, but think about the crafters who make these expensive items and sell them, they get the gil, and a lot of these items that are so expensive can only be crafted so they make out a lot and then they turn around and buy the materials to make more from the people who sell the smaller stuff, in effect keeping this economy going the only true way it can.
FaffyOfDiabolos wrote:
I've had enough with people posting that they know exactly what a JP reads when they are checked, because there is clearly no consensus.
I'm not sure how useful this information is, but for the record, the text that appears on the Japanese client when /checked is identical to the text that appears on the Japanese client from the use of the /stare emote, with some different ending punctuation.
What is the English client text for the /stare emote?
no ElecMournbringer, most high lvl crafter sell gils.
selling gils isn't NA's problem. mostly is the greed from HK players. beleive me, more HK ppl sell gil and buy than NA. but you just don't know because you havn't been into the game that long to realise.
gil seller speed up the inflation, the gil goes to other players in a few minutes and they buy more things from crafters, and crafters sell more gil to other ppl. that's the cycle of gil selling. which is bad inflation to other legit ppl. the inflation shouldn't be that high for hard working ppl.
no point to say you work hard and can;t fun in game. i have full time job (yes i am typing at work). and i have 2 lvl75, goldsmith at 95 and in HNM LS. you can achieve the same thing, just need to invest the time. what if the motor racing banned you from buying outside technology and you only can develop your own technology? you broke the rule buy buying a new motor. other teams are developing one, you broke the rules as simply as that.
selling gils isn't NA's problem. mostly is the greed from HK players. beleive me, more HK ppl sell gil and buy than NA. but you just don't know because you havn't been into the game that long to realise.
gil seller speed up the inflation, the gil goes to other players in a few minutes and they buy more things from crafters, and crafters sell more gil to other ppl. that's the cycle of gil selling. which is bad inflation to other legit ppl. the inflation shouldn't be that high for hard working ppl.
no point to say you work hard and can;t fun in game. i have full time job (yes i am typing at work). and i have 2 lvl75, goldsmith at 95 and in HNM LS. you can achieve the same thing, just need to invest the time. what if the motor racing banned you from buying outside technology and you only can develop your own technology? you broke the rule buy buying a new motor. other teams are developing one, you broke the rules as simply as that.
I saw a link to this post in someone's sig and it cought my interest, that's how I got here. Through most of the thread I decided to not post. My point of view is that all humans everywhere suck, just to differing degrees, and that blaming one nationality, group, or whatever other section is just lazy(I hate everyone equally).
However, the checking thing got me interested...
After about 40 levels(war 20 twice, mnk 10 twice, thf 10) I found out from a JP whm that it is considered rude by JP players to be checked.
My first run through the game I checked anyone and everyone, I had no ******* clue what I was doing and wanted to see what everyone else was wearing. After that it was me wanting to see what kind of armor that was, or weapon, etc.
Now, when bored, I check people as something to do, finding it entertainign to see what combos of equips some people use(not intended derogatorily).
Now whenever I hear the "don't check me" it translates to me as directly "n00b, keep your grubby newbish fingers off of my gear, and your insolent eyes too".
How are new players supposed to know how and what they should be doing and wearing if not by checking other players. We see the same thing with children, mimicking the actions and garb of their parents. It's how the world works, and helps people learn.
I also saw early on lots of peopel had cute things and info in their bazaar comments, so I will check you jsut to see if you have any. Again, it entertains me.
Also, if you have a bazaar, I *will* check you. If I have anything even remotely resembling free time, I check all bazaars I come by. If you have your bazaar up you're begging me to check you. (The only complaint I have here is that I got annoyed for the longest time by people having just like 1 rose up for 99million gil, seemed bazaar flag was false advertising.)
Also, if youare in my party, the first second I have downtime, I will check you. Not jsut curiosity, but because I am relying on you and want to know how well you're equipped.
The game has a filter for checks, if checks bother you, turn it on. if I could put such a thing into autotranslator, I would wave it about all the time.
I would also liek to have a {Find anything interesting?}one, for the peopel that get all insulted and check me 8-12 times in a row. Doesn't bother me.
Now as for the meat of the topic...
I have partied with a JP party before and we succeeded greatly, and everyone got many levels. They talked in Japanese a lot, and i understood none of it, but they would use autotranslator for party related business to include me.
Later I have partied with an all ES party except for one guy, and I extended the same courtesy to him as that JS party did for me.
The only time I have been bothered by th language barrier was when I joined a party that was... some language, french or german, I honestly forget, they all spoke impeccable english, and yet spoke... whatever that was, solely in party, and I know they were talking about me because I could see when they referred to me by name, or as warrior or tank.
Was it rude? Yes, I believe so. So they were more comfortable speakign their native language, ok fine, so am I, I understand that. But they made no effort to include me at all, except as related directly to party business.
My view on languages in games and online is thus...
I like interactign with people, I enjoy it greatly, and especially people from distant lands, it intrigues me to no end learning about foreign cultures. But I am not very multilingual at all... I struggle with other languages, and can barely muddle my way through a little spanish, which is at least in the same language family as english, and the languages from other groups are so alien to me that I cannot even begin to start learning them.
However, I am fairly fluent in translation. Everyone knows how badly translation programs maul anything you say in them, but I can meet a person halfway. Use a translator and I can dissasemble it enough to get the idea of what you want, just be prepared to do the same for me. I have had some great fun and interestign debates with diverse peoples through such means, so I recon we can at least get enough by to function together in a game.
Hell, I would find it an interesting and unique roleplaying experience to try to learn to communicate with a JP player or party solely through the use of emotes and AT(the eequivelant of common trade language terms). I have made do with such on several occasions, and it worked well.
Some JP players with poor(by their seemingly grandiose expectations) english have been among some of my closest allies, and wit ha mix of AT and their english we can party extremely well. And even wit hsomeoen that will just play ball and work with the very limited AT here we can get by and get some things done.
Hmm, it seems I did end up commenting on the heart of the issue as well... oh well.
However, the checking thing got me interested...
After about 40 levels(war 20 twice, mnk 10 twice, thf 10) I found out from a JP whm that it is considered rude by JP players to be checked.
My first run through the game I checked anyone and everyone, I had no ******* clue what I was doing and wanted to see what everyone else was wearing. After that it was me wanting to see what kind of armor that was, or weapon, etc.
Now, when bored, I check people as something to do, finding it entertainign to see what combos of equips some people use(not intended derogatorily).
Now whenever I hear the "don't check me" it translates to me as directly "n00b, keep your grubby newbish fingers off of my gear, and your insolent eyes too".
How are new players supposed to know how and what they should be doing and wearing if not by checking other players. We see the same thing with children, mimicking the actions and garb of their parents. It's how the world works, and helps people learn.
I also saw early on lots of peopel had cute things and info in their bazaar comments, so I will check you jsut to see if you have any. Again, it entertains me.
Also, if you have a bazaar, I *will* check you. If I have anything even remotely resembling free time, I check all bazaars I come by. If you have your bazaar up you're begging me to check you. (The only complaint I have here is that I got annoyed for the longest time by people having just like 1 rose up for 99million gil, seemed bazaar flag was false advertising.)
Also, if youare in my party, the first second I have downtime, I will check you. Not jsut curiosity, but because I am relying on you and want to know how well you're equipped.
The game has a filter for checks, if checks bother you, turn it on. if I could put such a thing into autotranslator, I would wave it about all the time.
I would also liek to have a {Find anything interesting?}one, for the peopel that get all insulted and check me 8-12 times in a row. Doesn't bother me.
Now as for the meat of the topic...
I have partied with a JP party before and we succeeded greatly, and everyone got many levels. They talked in Japanese a lot, and i understood none of it, but they would use autotranslator for party related business to include me.
Later I have partied with an all ES party except for one guy, and I extended the same courtesy to him as that JS party did for me.
The only time I have been bothered by th language barrier was when I joined a party that was... some language, french or german, I honestly forget, they all spoke impeccable english, and yet spoke... whatever that was, solely in party, and I know they were talking about me because I could see when they referred to me by name, or as warrior or tank.
Was it rude? Yes, I believe so. So they were more comfortable speakign their native language, ok fine, so am I, I understand that. But they made no effort to include me at all, except as related directly to party business.
My view on languages in games and online is thus...
I like interactign with people, I enjoy it greatly, and especially people from distant lands, it intrigues me to no end learning about foreign cultures. But I am not very multilingual at all... I struggle with other languages, and can barely muddle my way through a little spanish, which is at least in the same language family as english, and the languages from other groups are so alien to me that I cannot even begin to start learning them.
However, I am fairly fluent in translation. Everyone knows how badly translation programs maul anything you say in them, but I can meet a person halfway. Use a translator and I can dissasemble it enough to get the idea of what you want, just be prepared to do the same for me. I have had some great fun and interestign debates with diverse peoples through such means, so I recon we can at least get enough by to function together in a game.
Hell, I would find it an interesting and unique roleplaying experience to try to learn to communicate with a JP player or party solely through the use of emotes and AT(the eequivelant of common trade language terms). I have made do with such on several occasions, and it worked well.
Some JP players with poor(by their seemingly grandiose expectations) english have been among some of my closest allies, and wit ha mix of AT and their english we can party extremely well. And even wit hsomeoen that will just play ball and work with the very limited AT here we can get by and get some things done.
Hmm, it seems I did end up commenting on the heart of the issue as well... oh well.
Scholar
20 posts
no offense to anyone of u guys, i just have a question, instead of all the fighting, why don't u people use this as a chance to learn about both cultures, the japanese learn how the NAs live and the NAs learn how the Japanese live, and start to learn both language with practice, i know a guy who bought the game the JP version and now he's really good in JP, but the problem is that there are people who refuse to learn anything useful for them, and the thing about the JP only and the NA only, i think its stupid, no offense i mean u have ur reasons, but we're all here to have fun, and if u had a problem with a person from the other side it doesn't mean they're all like this, so what a few are jerks, and by that i mean from all nations, but i'm sure there are ALOT MORE good people, and if everyone was going JP only and NA only, what do people like me do, i'm an arabic guy, and the arabs i know on Titan are like 3 - 4 people, not even enough for a pt, so if everyone was being racist then i won't be what i am now, also i took this chance in the game to make friends all over the world, and practice my english and japanese, i'm not fluent in japanese but i'm learning, slowly but with time i'll get it, i'm just saying we should give each other a chance and learn to live together and about each other instead of being all racist.
Scholar
20 posts
sorry about this, i pressed the post button 3 times so i got this and i don't know how to delete it >.< sorry
Edited, Mon Feb 7 00:18:47 2005 by AhmedOnTitan
Edited, Mon Feb 7 00:18:47 2005 by AhmedOnTitan
Scholar
20 posts
Edited, Mon Feb 7 00:17:35 2005 by AhmedOnTitan
I have met some nice JP and some mean ones in my year on the game. Im glad to hear JP players have done the same. There are nice people all over regardless of nationality. I have met a blm jp in Crawlers nest that was very sad to see me have to log he had bad english but he was beging me to stay cause enjoyed pt-ing with me. On the other hand I have met mean JP with good english that cursed me out cause i was NA player trying to get my keys for Kazham while his thf was hunting treasure chest. I have no idea why he showed such anger told me except he told me I hope I die cause he hates NA players. I have also met other NA players that are really rude and mean to everyone as well. So again Im glade to see it seems NA and JP are learning to get along now and with the UK version hopefully the transition will be good for them and we increase the amount of people to play with on our server and live in one big happy ff world.
I try my best to make a JP player who is in a party with all NA players feel like part of the group. They do tend to be silent but i communicate with them through emotes like /cheer them on or smile or anything to make them feel like they are part of the group. after all they understand the default emotes if you have them targeted and direct them towards them. They respond back in the same way to. So If you get a jp person in your party try to make them feel welcome and not just a fill in spot cause that person was the only one avaible and he/she happened to be JP. After all they are people with feelings just like you are. well thats my 2 cent ramble. Happy FF-ing
I try my best to make a JP player who is in a party with all NA players feel like part of the group. They do tend to be silent but i communicate with them through emotes like /cheer them on or smile or anything to make them feel like they are part of the group. after all they understand the default emotes if you have them targeted and direct them towards them. They respond back in the same way to. So If you get a jp person in your party try to make them feel welcome and not just a fill in spot cause that person was the only one avaible and he/she happened to be JP. After all they are people with feelings just like you are. well thats my 2 cent ramble. Happy FF-ing
All I have to say...
I seriously wonder if anyone who is bi-lingual has ever tried to go to their forums and explain OUR point of view, since we're always getting threads on "The Japanese in Game".
Yes, they have their own culture, and what is considered rude to them is not to us, what is to us is not to them (Jp ONLY parties for example)
Both...I repeat BOTH sides need to try to understand eachother and compromise. Not just us, or not just them. BOTH.
I seriously wonder if anyone who is bi-lingual has ever tried to go to their forums and explain OUR point of view, since we're always getting threads on "The Japanese in Game".
Yes, they have their own culture, and what is considered rude to them is not to us, what is to us is not to them (Jp ONLY parties for example)
Both...I repeat BOTH sides need to try to understand eachother and compromise. Not just us, or not just them. BOTH.
Chudrocker wrote:
Quote:
2. The newbie period extends to 40-50 lvs. There are considerable numbers of unskilled players so that they ruin many exp pts because they got powerlevels or just rush levels without understanding their jobs.
sadly, i think its higher now. i've noticed many people rushing their job levels (i'm not saying everyone).
... *cough* ... VISA ... *cough* ... IGE ... *cough* ... Rank 10 ... *cough* ... Doesn't know what a Skill Chain is ... *cough*
(^.^)v
Well written post. It's nice to see things from another perspective. Sadly, I think it's perhaps a little too late to change it back...
Oogami wrote:
Quote:
what is so wrong with checking someones lvl or their equipment as u run by.
Quote:
nothing gets on my nerves more than someone booting me out of their inventory.
If you feel that you have every right to look at other people's stuff, they have got every right to refuse showing them to you. It goes both ways.
And this is not an NA bashing post, it is just one that is attempting to put the Japanese view across. (those that posted on their boards anyway).You might not realize it, but there's more than just Japanese, NA, EU in this game, you have people playing from Korea, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia even.
Edit for clarification...
Edited, Thu Jan 27 03:06:32 2005 by Oogami
It's kinda like the idea that "If they have windows, I'm ALLOWED to look inside".
The only people I will check on inventory/status and such is when they:
A. Are in my party, and 9 times out of 10 I'll settle for the Member List screen - as for equipment I'll only check theirs if it comes up in PT conversation.
B. Have their Bazaar icon up. If your Bazaar icon is up, you really are inviting people to look anyways, and so it should be. Especially with the job class "mule" that's so popular these days.
C. They're obviously there to show off - IE: 30+ PLD taking on Bogies in the dunes. Obviously more there to impress others standing around in awe than levelling. (When have you EVER seen a Pally take a bogy to a secluded area so he/she could finish it off where none of the Dunies can see?) Don't get me wrong.. nothing wrong in that... I do the same in Qufim, etc. with Weapons - I provide a service (clearing the weapons out so passers by can get to their exp) and I like to get the thank you's for helping someone out. It's fun for me. ^^v
But I suppose it's all better than:
<XXX> examines you
<XXX> bursts out laughing beside you
<XXX> You suck!
/blist add <XXX>
/wave <t>
I don't know any Japanese at all, but I would state the OP is very correct...
When I've invited JP's into my parties, even with JP ONLY in search comments, you'll typically see 1 of 2 responses:
1) NA = {Too Weak} ... well I won't comment further on that one, but yes it exists
2) {English} {I don't understand} is that ok?
The second one always intrigues me because usually they will know some simple words like articles and prepositions, even if not used right. Typically the second class will come across as bashful and almost embarrased that they can't understand English. Obviously, this is no problem for me so I respond with tons of smiley faces and try to make them feel as welcome as possible.
Somewhat off-topic: How does {Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass} translate for the JP client? As NA's we tend to use it jokingly as a somewhat-rude response, and that's precluded me from ever saying it to a JP person.
When I've invited JP's into my parties, even with JP ONLY in search comments, you'll typically see 1 of 2 responses:
1) NA = {Too Weak} ... well I won't comment further on that one, but yes it exists
2) {English} {I don't understand} is that ok?
The second one always intrigues me because usually they will know some simple words like articles and prepositions, even if not used right. Typically the second class will come across as bashful and almost embarrased that they can't understand English. Obviously, this is no problem for me so I respond with tons of smiley faces and try to make them feel as welcome as possible.
Somewhat off-topic: How does {Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass} translate for the JP client? As NA's we tend to use it jokingly as a somewhat-rude response, and that's precluded me from ever saying it to a JP person.
Quote:
What I dont understand is why, when I was playing around on my mule, a lvl 8 MNK with no subjob, I get checked by almost every person running by, most on chocobos.
Seriously, how much different am I from any other lvl8 mnk out there? I'm not /anon... if you want to just see my lvl, do a /sea.
I'm sure it sounds exaggerated (sp?), but I was truly amazed at the amount of /checks I got today.
Seriously, how much different am I from any other lvl8 mnk out there? I'm not /anon... if you want to just see my lvl, do a /sea.
I'm sure it sounds exaggerated (sp?), but I was truly amazed at the amount of /checks I got today.
hm.. i can sort of explain why this this might happen. if i was on choco passing by low lv area, sometimes i target newbies, just to see if they are low hp and need help. but choco goes by too fast for me to type /sea, so i might do /check in this case.
I personally enjoyed this post. I love the asian culture. I think the world would be better off with an honor based system.(or ideals) I am american....and in most times i am ashamed of us. We are not all bad though. 80% might be a pain in the *** but we are good at heart.
I was check happy and i still check people randomly. if they act offended i appologize. Ive been playing around 3 months and there are alot of equip that is new to me. No matter how long I sit in the Auction House.
I would love to party with JP players, just as a chance to learn from them. Of course americans have a tasteless reputation, Ive partied with alot of NA that give us that Reputation. I can understand why they want to party with themselves as many would like to party with people common to them. It is easier ...For example ..To be a pld in a NA pt to say "Please wait until second provoke to nuke." In auto-translate turns out something like "<Please> </no> <spell> @2<Provoke>" or something lol. Who can read that and frankly who wants to.
This should be stickied just because it is good information to know. Just my opinion.
*please note im not very good with auto-translator
I was check happy and i still check people randomly. if they act offended i appologize. Ive been playing around 3 months and there are alot of equip that is new to me. No matter how long I sit in the Auction House.
I would love to party with JP players, just as a chance to learn from them. Of course americans have a tasteless reputation, Ive partied with alot of NA that give us that Reputation. I can understand why they want to party with themselves as many would like to party with people common to them. It is easier ...For example ..To be a pld in a NA pt to say "Please wait until second provoke to nuke." In auto-translate turns out something like "<Please> </no> <spell> @2<Provoke>" or something lol. Who can read that and frankly who wants to.
This should be stickied just because it is good information to know. Just my opinion.
*please note im not very good with auto-translator
Quote:
You know I'd almost forgotten about all the "PS2 players suck" comments and such we had going for awhile there... kinda makes you think
Yeah, it does make you think. For about 3 seconds.
The difference is, we had the common sense to move on and realize that the PS2 players were just as capable as our PC counterparts. The reason you suddenly have to "think" about it, is because we've all "forgotten" about it. We've brushed it off and moved on. We accept PS2 players and PC players alike.
Myself, I accept JP and NA alike in pt, I've pt'd with plenty horrible JP players in my time, just as I have with NA players. I've partied with Great NA players and Great JP players too. I dont care who you are and where you come from, so long as you arent a punk-***, and dont show disrespect.
Now, we have been informed several times over the last weeks/months/year that JPONLY means "i cant understand you so I'm not gonna even bother". I can relate, as a WHM taru I had invites all over, JP more than NA it seemed. However, if you even TRY to use auto-translate, you can usually communicate. If I say (away) I know damn right they understand, because they halt the pt since thier lives rely on me.
As I said, the difference was, we moved on and got over it. JP REFUSE to move on, get over it, and adjust. Generally, when I form a pt, if there is one JP, I try to get a second for him to have someone to talk to. It helps. It helps, but it is not a neccessity. Linkshells are there so we can talk with our friends at any given time. When we go to party, if you want to be with your friends, put some effort into it and be with them - the seek icon shouldnt even be on. If its just random XP you want, put on your damn linkshell, chat away - and get good xp with NA the same as you would with JP.
I understand the JPONLY portion of thier message, but it still urks me every farkin time I read it. How many NA do you see with NA only - if we now understand that its not meant as a putdown - how about JP understand that we DO take it as an offense. How about we all revert to *** instead of JP. We dont, because we understand JP take offense to it. If all JP understand that we take offense to it, and dont adjust it somehow - then you can blow me. I'm still open to pting with all nationalities (even those french-canadians ;p) but if I have someone in pt, and find out they are JPONLY in thier message usually and are just "XP-whores" at that current time - I will remove that person from my PT immediately. Only in the game to benefit yourself to the fullest is NOT my idea of a good "caring" pt member. So, since this is like the 10th thread I've read like this, I couldnt hold back from forcing my thoughts upon you.
Hope you enjoyed it, and if I see a JPONLY tag on you - Dont expect a raise when you die, and I happen to be a whm at that moment, dont you even DARE expect a raise from me. I cant even count the number of times I've raised JP who /telled me with auto-translate to (raise) - but couldnt "cope" with it for a party situation. Outright pisses me off. If we are to adjust, then so the hell are you (I'm talkin to you JP).
Fujilives
I've been invited a lot to mostly-Japanese parties a lot lately, usually with pure-Kanji /tells. From what I can gather from {Very tough} conversations with the /tellers, many think "Woogsum" seems more like a Japanese-chosen name than English. At any rate, usually I respond to these with "{I'm sorry.} {I don't speak any Japanese.} ;_; {Please use the auto-translator.} {Thank you.}"
Very infrequently, I get no response after this -- I consider this a reaction akin to seeing your good friend on the street, running up behind him and giving him a noogie, then realising it's a total stranger. <.<
About 50% of the time, I either get the standard "{I'm sorry.}" The rest of the time, they reply with the auto-translator or some broken English. On Tuesday, I got a reply of "{Experience point} {Party} {Do you need it?} {Warrior}{Ninja}{Utsusemi} = {Sneak Attack}{Trick Attack}{friend}", looking for a trick partner for their Ninja. The party was a lot of fun, among the best pcikup parties I've had, and I'll explain why.
First, though, I want to preface by saying my intention is not to generalise; I am merely making an observation. Maybe my standard XPing time (EST evenings/weekends) is conducive with being stuck by and large with crummy English parties, but whatever the reason, the following has been my observation:
Japanese players, on average, take this game more seriously than English players. They seem much more conscious of battle tactics than English players, and know how their jobs inside out and how they interact with other jobs. There are certainly English players who do as well, but my experience has been that it's common among Japanese players and unusual among English players. To wit, I was invited to a 4JP/2EN party a couple weeks ago as a WAR/THF DD to close Fragmentation with the DRK. The DRK (the other EN) had to leave ({I'm sorry} {I'm sleepy.}), and instead of grabbing the THF or RNG who were seeking (as an EN party would have done), they waited close to 30 minutes to get another DRK or a SAM to open Fragmentation for me.
Socially, it has been an interesting experience. Obviously, I can't chat with them about the latest Tokyo heartthrob or whatever, but I'm not the monolithic mute either. I use the auto-translator as best I can to be a good party member, whether just to {Good job!} on a fast chain, or to make a sarcastic "{Incredibly tough} {Fragmentation} {Skillchain} ;_;" when the mob resists the SC. I think they appreciate the effort, an English player doing his best to involve himself in the party experience, not just the sweet, sweet Japanese XP (and it was sweet). Hell, one of them {/befriend}ed me. O_o;;;
Anyway, I don't think the culture gap is so vast that we can't comingle, but I recognise that not everyone is willing to put in the effort; no one should be forced to. I think what Japanese players want is for us to extend to them the same courtesy they do us. What this means is, whether or not you are offended by {/check}ing, respect the fact that other people are. It's not even on the level of a debate why they feel it's rude, just respect that "they" (and many of "us"!) do! If you really want to see what spiffy armor a player is wearing, it takes no time to "/tell playername {Excuse me...} {/check} {please} {Can I have it?}" It's not impingeing on your Rights, it's just common courtesy.
Common courtesy, is that so much to ask for? ;_;
Very infrequently, I get no response after this -- I consider this a reaction akin to seeing your good friend on the street, running up behind him and giving him a noogie, then realising it's a total stranger. <.<
About 50% of the time, I either get the standard "{I'm sorry.}" The rest of the time, they reply with the auto-translator or some broken English. On Tuesday, I got a reply of "{Experience point} {Party} {Do you need it?} {Warrior}{Ninja}{Utsusemi} = {Sneak Attack}{Trick Attack}{friend}", looking for a trick partner for their Ninja. The party was a lot of fun, among the best pcikup parties I've had, and I'll explain why.
First, though, I want to preface by saying my intention is not to generalise; I am merely making an observation. Maybe my standard XPing time (EST evenings/weekends) is conducive with being stuck by and large with crummy English parties, but whatever the reason, the following has been my observation:
Japanese players, on average, take this game more seriously than English players. They seem much more conscious of battle tactics than English players, and know how their jobs inside out and how they interact with other jobs. There are certainly English players who do as well, but my experience has been that it's common among Japanese players and unusual among English players. To wit, I was invited to a 4JP/2EN party a couple weeks ago as a WAR/THF DD to close Fragmentation with the DRK. The DRK (the other EN) had to leave ({I'm sorry} {I'm sleepy.}), and instead of grabbing the THF or RNG who were seeking (as an EN party would have done), they waited close to 30 minutes to get another DRK or a SAM to open Fragmentation for me.
Socially, it has been an interesting experience. Obviously, I can't chat with them about the latest Tokyo heartthrob or whatever, but I'm not the monolithic mute either. I use the auto-translator as best I can to be a good party member, whether just to {Good job!} on a fast chain, or to make a sarcastic "{Incredibly tough} {Fragmentation} {Skillchain} ;_;" when the mob resists the SC. I think they appreciate the effort, an English player doing his best to involve himself in the party experience, not just the sweet, sweet Japanese XP (and it was sweet). Hell, one of them {/befriend}ed me. O_o;;;
Anyway, I don't think the culture gap is so vast that we can't comingle, but I recognise that not everyone is willing to put in the effort; no one should be forced to. I think what Japanese players want is for us to extend to them the same courtesy they do us. What this means is, whether or not you are offended by {/check}ing, respect the fact that other people are. It's not even on the level of a debate why they feel it's rude, just respect that "they" (and many of "us"!) do! If you really want to see what spiffy armor a player is wearing, it takes no time to "/tell playername {Excuse me...} {/check} {please} {Can I have it?}" It's not impingeing on your Rights, it's just common courtesy.
Common courtesy, is that so much to ask for? ;_;
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