Mostly off topic, but for the one who started an account to just reply...
The problem with checking is not so much the act of checking, as the text it displays.
I dont know why, nobody to my knowledge has ever found the reasoning, but SE screwed up with the JP translation of /check.
Where as we see: "<player> examines you."
the JP clients see something like: "<player> stares intently at you."
From my understanding, the particular word used in Japan is... a negative one. Translating more appropriately into english as "<player> leers at you" or some such. Whatever it was, its a word that makes the average JP player uncomfortable.
Again, I dont know why SE would choose to use this word. Seems like a silly choice... But that is what I have heard as the main reasoning JP players do not enjoy being checked.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As to the rest of this thread... warms me so much to see all this intelligent discussion. Gives hope to the forums. ^^
Its mostly been discussed here, but I called the situation at PC release. Back when I saw all the NA getting huffy about the JP not wanting to party with us... And some were getting rude about it. I told them to wait for PS2 release.
Sure enough, it rolled around, and 90% of those that were huffy about the JP, treated the PS2 players the same way. They didnt want to PT with PS2 cause they were newbies, and didnt have good equipment, and didnt know their jobs, and got parties killed, and had no or underleveled subjobs, and did nothing but shout in cities for handouts, and etc...
Every last one of which, as I understand it, applied to why the JP didnt want to PT with us. And of those 90% that were treating the PS2 players poorly... they saw nothing wrong in what they were doing. I wonder how many of them remembered their own Newbie days, and cut the JP players some slack in their responce to us...
Fortunately that time is over. Its sad that there are JP players that are still soured to us because of it... But then I know many NA players that are still sour to the JP players. Its foolish...
But I think things have improved alot over what they were. There will always be pig-headed individuals on all sides of a border... But I'm seeing a lot more understanding going on (especially from threads such as this one).
- Forums
- Final Fantasy XI
- General Discussion
- Japanese Players & my observations
Japanese Players & my observationsFollow
Uchipu
Once in a while someone braves the different message boards to post something clear, and respectfull. I salute you.
Please note everyone that the OP was NOT bashing NA in any way. I began playing at the start of the NA PC release. I met a LOT of really nice Japanese players that helped me out a lot.
I see a few embers here smoldering "defending" NA, but I don't think Ochipu was posting to attack NA, and so their posts are not appropriate. If you guys all turn this into an NA vs JP post then that is your decision, and you only attack yourselves, and prove those JP out there that refuse to do anything with NA correct.
Have I ever been in a JP Party?
Yes. I have actually been in many many JP party's. When I first started this game 70% of my playtime was in the early AM hours (4AM-9AM) on weekends. This plopped me durring the middle/end of the Japanese play time. Having started with NA releasew this was not a problem. I had several Japanese friends that I would party with. Then I took a 5 week break to set some RL stuff straight. I came back, and all my JP friends were about 10 levels higher than me minimum. Even their subs weren't of a partyable level. So my invites came to an abrupt halt.
This is when the "JP Only" became an issue.
(note that I play BST now) Now whenever I would need just one or two more people to fill out my party, but everyone seeking that "fit the bill" was JP only. I sent tells, and was rebuffed many times. I was also surprised occasionally when someone accepted.
I got frustrated, and almost quit. I spoke with my JP friends, (most spoke brokenm english), and they explained what had been going on in my absence. I resigned myself that I would rarely get a JP invite, and moved on.
I've since had a lot of fun in the game. I've managed to level my (non BST) jobs despite the "JP Only" issue, and frankly it doesn't bother me anymore.
My take on it is that if you really have an issue with it then it's your problem. Get ovwer yourself, them, and play with the people who DO want to play with you, and move on.
Once in a while someone braves the different message boards to post something clear, and respectfull. I salute you.
Please note everyone that the OP was NOT bashing NA in any way. I began playing at the start of the NA PC release. I met a LOT of really nice Japanese players that helped me out a lot.
I see a few embers here smoldering "defending" NA, but I don't think Ochipu was posting to attack NA, and so their posts are not appropriate. If you guys all turn this into an NA vs JP post then that is your decision, and you only attack yourselves, and prove those JP out there that refuse to do anything with NA correct.
Have I ever been in a JP Party?
Yes. I have actually been in many many JP party's. When I first started this game 70% of my playtime was in the early AM hours (4AM-9AM) on weekends. This plopped me durring the middle/end of the Japanese play time. Having started with NA releasew this was not a problem. I had several Japanese friends that I would party with. Then I took a 5 week break to set some RL stuff straight. I came back, and all my JP friends were about 10 levels higher than me minimum. Even their subs weren't of a partyable level. So my invites came to an abrupt halt.
This is when the "JP Only" became an issue.
(note that I play BST now) Now whenever I would need just one or two more people to fill out my party, but everyone seeking that "fit the bill" was JP only. I sent tells, and was rebuffed many times. I was also surprised occasionally when someone accepted.
I got frustrated, and almost quit. I spoke with my JP friends, (most spoke brokenm english), and they explained what had been going on in my absence. I resigned myself that I would rarely get a JP invite, and moved on.
I've since had a lot of fun in the game. I've managed to level my (non BST) jobs despite the "JP Only" issue, and frankly it doesn't bother me anymore.
My take on it is that if you really have an issue with it then it's your problem. Get ovwer yourself, them, and play with the people who DO want to play with you, and move on.
Lakshmibacco wrote:
divisortheory wrote:
Most of the population here is stuck up, conceited, and think that everyone ows THEM the favor. But it's the other way around. When we stop running around like jackasses {/check}ing every single person we see for no reason...THEN, maybe then we'll start seeing a good response from our Japanese friends.
ya so i went and created an account here just to comment on this....i am an NA player, and i do not understand all this /check ing nonsence. what is so wrong with checking someones lvl or their equipment as u run by.
Look, this has been done so many times on here, I'm not going to try to explain. But the bottom line is that they feel it's rude and intrusive, period.
I wonder how JPs feel about the NA tendency to slap together a PT just to get it going as soon as possible. One thing I notice about JP PTs I've been invited to is they will sit in Jeuno until the right job pops up even if it takes hours.
Scholar
42 posts
I started With FF i and there is no FF Version i do not own.
I remember i always felt angry if someone finished a FF in just 1/8 the time i played. For me FF was completed when i had every single item you can have and every single hidden thing you could find, in some FF even maxed money and so on. I am not a Otaku (maybe a little bit) but gaming is a part of my life and also my job, since i am a pro Game designer.
When i started to play FFXI i had to learn many things by myself and from others but at least i did know all the things written in the "Game Manual" ind i was very quickly frustrated when i saw that many people obviously never touched it. I also met some High Level Noobs who bought a character, this made my hands shake...
I do not play to much in one day, nor to less. When my Gf (not guardian Force lol) comes i log off, same goes for my friends who come almost every day for an hour or too. I am about to convince them to play this game, but some ate afraid... (because some are students from japan :P they know it will affect their study... :P)
I am a Half Asian who lives in Germany and it makes me a bit sad because most people think that there are only *** and NA player in this game.
I have nothing against NA player and same goes for Japanese.
For me a Pl is a PL, nothing more and nothing less. Some Pl are cool, some are lame, that is it.
There are also some hardcore nerds in NA and Germany, same as in Japan.
Not to forget, Final Fantasy is a japanese Game, all FF came out in Japan first and much later in other countries.
If you look at other MMORPG you will see more nerds from the county where the game has its origin.
(like you will see more He-man nerds in NA then in Japan :P)
So, i don't understand all the fuss about NA, japan. For me all Pl are the same, the only problem is the language problem.
What i do not like are the Japan Fan boys, some funny dudes that think that all japanese players are God players, they are very funny.
I also get many info from Japanese communities and so on, because i have many japanese friends, it is someotimes very fun to read the stories they write about foreign Pl they met ^^.
Same goes for NA forums. Also me and some friends visit Japan when we can to play Street Fighter 3th Strike and CvS2 in Tokyo, u can meet crazy people there ^^.
BTW, i think it is a great Post! It gives some people a nice inside.
I remember i always felt angry if someone finished a FF in just 1/8 the time i played. For me FF was completed when i had every single item you can have and every single hidden thing you could find, in some FF even maxed money and so on. I am not a Otaku (maybe a little bit) but gaming is a part of my life and also my job, since i am a pro Game designer.
When i started to play FFXI i had to learn many things by myself and from others but at least i did know all the things written in the "Game Manual" ind i was very quickly frustrated when i saw that many people obviously never touched it. I also met some High Level Noobs who bought a character, this made my hands shake...
I do not play to much in one day, nor to less. When my Gf (not guardian Force lol) comes i log off, same goes for my friends who come almost every day for an hour or too. I am about to convince them to play this game, but some ate afraid... (because some are students from japan :P they know it will affect their study... :P)
I am a Half Asian who lives in Germany and it makes me a bit sad because most people think that there are only *** and NA player in this game.
I have nothing against NA player and same goes for Japanese.
For me a Pl is a PL, nothing more and nothing less. Some Pl are cool, some are lame, that is it.
There are also some hardcore nerds in NA and Germany, same as in Japan.
Not to forget, Final Fantasy is a japanese Game, all FF came out in Japan first and much later in other countries.
If you look at other MMORPG you will see more nerds from the county where the game has its origin.
(like you will see more He-man nerds in NA then in Japan :P)
So, i don't understand all the fuss about NA, japan. For me all Pl are the same, the only problem is the language problem.
What i do not like are the Japan Fan boys, some funny dudes that think that all japanese players are God players, they are very funny.
I also get many info from Japanese communities and so on, because i have many japanese friends, it is someotimes very fun to read the stories they write about foreign Pl they met ^^.
Same goes for NA forums. Also me and some friends visit Japan when we can to play Street Fighter 3th Strike and CvS2 in Tokyo, u can meet crazy people there ^^.
BTW, i think it is a great Post! It gives some people a nice inside.
[All Right!]
I've been waiting for a post like this to clear up the whole "JP only" deal. I vote this be made a sticky so nobody has an excuse to post another "OMFG JP ONLY!!!!!1!11111!!! RACEIST RACIST!!!!!11111!!!!!!!!!!!1111111!!!1!!!!!11!1111!!!1one!one1eleven!!!!!111!" post. Even if it ain't made a sticky, this goes in my sig! Rate up even though I can't rate you up any further!
Most of the people I /check don't mind. One time, I /checked a JP Hume girl named Hibikimay and she became violently angry. She said something that I couldn't quite understand, but when she put "GM" in her sentence, I could tell she was threatening to bring a GM into this...
but /checking isn't against the rules, so I had nothing to worry about. I apologized using the translator and afterwards, I saw this in my chat box:
Hibikimay >> upset
Hibikimay >> upset
Hibikimay >> upset
Hibikimay >> upset
Hibikimay >> upset
Hibikimay >> upset
Hibikimay >> upset
and so on...this lasted for about 5 minutes. Now I know how serious it is to some. But oh boy did I learn it the hard way ; ;.
Edited, Thu Jan 27 11:29:48 2005 by JmacAttack
I've been waiting for a post like this to clear up the whole "JP only" deal. I vote this be made a sticky so nobody has an excuse to post another "OMFG JP ONLY!!!!!1!11111!!! RACEIST RACIST!!!!!11111!!!!!!!!!!!1111111!!!1!!!!!11!1111!!!1one!one1eleven!!!!!111!" post. Even if it ain't made a sticky, this goes in my sig! Rate up even though I can't rate you up any further!
Quote:
I guess much like with us, the /check function and how they take it really depends on the person. It also seemed that to those where FFXI was their first international MMORPG the function bothered them more, whereas those who have played other games, such as EQ, they didn't really care anymore.
Most of the people I /check don't mind. One time, I /checked a JP Hume girl named Hibikimay and she became violently angry. She said something that I couldn't quite understand, but when she put "GM" in her sentence, I could tell she was threatening to bring a GM into this...
but /checking isn't against the rules, so I had nothing to worry about. I apologized using the translator and afterwards, I saw this in my chat box:
Hibikimay >> upset
Hibikimay >> upset
Hibikimay >> upset
Hibikimay >> upset
Hibikimay >> upset
Hibikimay >> upset
Hibikimay >> upset
and so on...this lasted for about 5 minutes. Now I know how serious it is to some. But oh boy did I learn it the hard way ; ;.
Edited, Thu Jan 27 11:29:48 2005 by JmacAttack
do you guys remeber or know the HSBC advertisment?
they already stated some culture differences regarding some hand signs, colour, etc etc.
qoute from the advertisement, the OK hand sign is accepted from many place as "OK", but in Brazil, it is rude. (don't quote me, i only quote from HSBC).
white colour is for wedding in western countries. but the chinese only wear white in furnel (SP, dead ppl thingy).
little things like this cause the tension of ppl. if you don't know them, we can't blame you by doing these. but if you know "***" is rude, and the check command is rude for jp. it is no excuse to do so. just because it is accepted in your country, it doesn't mean other ppl are happy. more and more little things will make more tension. it is very clear what other ppl are wearing, can't you know it staight away what AF they are wearing? what hauby, scrop harness, zenith gears, other curse armor. everything is so obvious for us.
just because american like using freedom as excuse, it is rude to say, it is my freedom to check you. it will just annoy other player and cause this kind of misunderstanding. your freedom excuses already cause many wars and international conflicts, don't make more trouble in FFXI.
they already stated some culture differences regarding some hand signs, colour, etc etc.
qoute from the advertisement, the OK hand sign is accepted from many place as "OK", but in Brazil, it is rude. (don't quote me, i only quote from HSBC).
white colour is for wedding in western countries. but the chinese only wear white in furnel (SP, dead ppl thingy).
little things like this cause the tension of ppl. if you don't know them, we can't blame you by doing these. but if you know "***" is rude, and the check command is rude for jp. it is no excuse to do so. just because it is accepted in your country, it doesn't mean other ppl are happy. more and more little things will make more tension. it is very clear what other ppl are wearing, can't you know it staight away what AF they are wearing? what hauby, scrop harness, zenith gears, other curse armor. everything is so obvious for us.
just because american like using freedom as excuse, it is rude to say, it is my freedom to check you. it will just annoy other player and cause this kind of misunderstanding. your freedom excuses already cause many wars and international conflicts, don't make more trouble in FFXI.
RandisAlbion wrote:
I have nothing against NA player and same goes for Japanese.
For me a Pl is a PL, nothing more and nothing less. Some Pl are cool, some are lame, that is it.
...
So, i don't understand all the fuss about NA, japan. For me all Pl are the same, the only problem is the language problem...
Well said!
unfortunatly this post will soon sink to the bottom of the site since people aren't here to flame, and keep it at the top.
Quote:
little things like this cause the tension of ppl. if you don't know them, we can't blame you by doing these. but if you know "***" is rude, and the check command is rude for jp. it is no excuse to do so. just because it is accepted in your country, it doesn't mean other ppl are happy. more and more little things will make more tension. it is very clear what other ppl are wearing, can't you know it staight away what AF they are wearing? what hauby, scrop harness, zenith gears, other curse armor. everything is so obvious for us.
just because american like using freedom as excuse, it is rude to say, it is my freedom to check you. it will just annoy other player and cause this kind of misunderstanding. your freedom excuses already cause many wars and international conflicts, don't make more trouble in FFXI.
just because american like using freedom as excuse, it is rude to say, it is my freedom to check you. it will just annoy other player and cause this kind of misunderstanding. your freedom excuses already cause many wars and international conflicts, don't make more trouble in FFXI.
Freedom to do something is Not Equal you should/allow/are polite/have right to do that
I saw that a fairly common problem in US in RL (at least where I live -- Washington DC). I have people driving cutting me off unneccessary, and when I give him/her a look, he will tell me to **** off even before I say a word. And such behavoir got diffused into the game.
I hate to bash Americans (I am a US citizen but of foreign descent, and spend more time in Hong Kong and Canada than in US itself, and speak fluent Chinese and good Japanese), but sometimes being on the top will make you forget other culture is different and should be treated sensenstively (not just in FFXI).
A few years ago when I lived in rural Pennsylvania, I had a Hatian black friend (my roommate) who had visited rural PA communities for business and research reasons. There are people there claim they have never seen a black person. I think a lack of exposure of foreign culture or people from another nation (in certain parts of US) is a cause of such problem in the game and in US foreign policy.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
I've always wondered what would have happened if NA and JP had launched at the exact same time...
Great post, btw, thank you for sharing it.
Quote:
I hate to bash Americans (I am a US citizen but of foreign descent, and spend more time in Hong Kong and Canada than in US itself, and speak fluent Chinese and good Japanese), but sometimes being on the top will make you forget other culture is different and should be treated sensenstively (not just in FFXI).
A few years ago when I lived in rural Pennsylvania, I had a Hatian black friend (my roommate) who had visited rural PA communities for business and research reasons. There are people there claim they have never seen a black person. I think a lack of exposure of foreign culture or people from another nation (in certain parts of US) is a cause of such problem in the game and in US foreign policy.
A few years ago when I lived in rural Pennsylvania, I had a Hatian black friend (my roommate) who had visited rural PA communities for business and research reasons. There are people there claim they have never seen a black person. I think a lack of exposure of foreign culture or people from another nation (in certain parts of US) is a cause of such problem in the game and in US foreign policy.
the first part of this qoute i'd like to address. i've said it on the KI forums and got a couple of people all huffy over it, but here it goes.
the "we're number 1" ideal is indeed a hinderance to most of the population of the USA. for one, look at the Kyoto Treaty refusal a couple of years back. when you asked the average joeon the street if the treaty should have been passed, most said no because other nations should have no say over us. this is not word for word, but it typical and in the general jist of mindset.
America also has it roots deep in Isolationism. time and time again an Isolationist movement has popped up from the mid 1800's (pre and post civil war), to the 1904-1910 (WWI) again in 1938-1942(WWII) and to some extent, Pat Buchanan of today. we typically do not want anything to do with other nations. for example, pervious to the second Gulf War, the American government showed strong jingoistic and isolationistic policies by ignoring what the UN has to say. wheather you agree with the US choice to ignore the console or not is not the point, nor should be an issue of discussion, for the point is that this reflects the American tendancy to do whatever they want come hell or high water.
when the people of a nation see their leaders act in a certain way, it tends to reflect itself upon the population. for example, next time you are hanging out with your friends, put in a DVD of any anime besides "Akira" or "Ghost in the Shell," put in a DVD of a foreign film besides the main stays and watch their reaction. i will put good money that they will laugh at it or evenscoff at it. while this is not the most pronounced show of the isolationist actions we tend to take, it does reflect our inability to accept other's cultures and art. this is highly ironic since we are such a "melting pot" of cultures.
for the second part, there's also some part in Africa, Russia, China, and Brazil that have never seen a person of a differnt color. this is all around the world. the great thing is this; there's only 3 main colors to the human race; dark brown, brown and light brown. ask any dermatologist and they will say that "white" is just a very light brown. well, okay, 4 colors with white being an Albino.
I applaud the OP's message, and I applaud some of the responses I've read, others, well, not so much, but I digress. The basic fundamental root of all tensions, is culture.
I know enough about japanese culture to basically be dnagerous, American culture, well, I've spent 28 years living it, so I have a pretty good grasp of it's internal mechanizations. This entire thread, and another thread similar to it on another site, tends to show every facet of american culture. There are those that say "Hmm, a little understanding on our part works wonders in getting japanese players to open up." and there are those that say "***** that, THEY should quit being rude first, I'm tired of being expected to be the one that's nice first, it's BS, blah blah blah."
Both points of view are fine, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see which approach tends to breed more contentment among the masses, and which approach is mostly just inflamatory to the problem at hand.
I don't have a problem sending the JP Onlys a /tell asking to party. I usually start with (Please forgive me.) then go on to list the jobs and levels in the party as well as where we'll be fighting. I've gotten silence, polite refusals, and a surprising number of "OK ^^" only once have I been the subject of a tongue lashing over it.
Bottom line is, the number of people that this thread will reach is miniscule. Most people are firmly entrenched in their ways, and bringing about change en masse seems to be the stuff of legend anymore. So, rate up to the OP, it was an excellent post. Well thought out, and well written. Thank you for the only reason I've had to visit the main boards in months.
I know enough about japanese culture to basically be dnagerous, American culture, well, I've spent 28 years living it, so I have a pretty good grasp of it's internal mechanizations. This entire thread, and another thread similar to it on another site, tends to show every facet of american culture. There are those that say "Hmm, a little understanding on our part works wonders in getting japanese players to open up." and there are those that say "***** that, THEY should quit being rude first, I'm tired of being expected to be the one that's nice first, it's BS, blah blah blah."
Both points of view are fine, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see which approach tends to breed more contentment among the masses, and which approach is mostly just inflamatory to the problem at hand.
I don't have a problem sending the JP Onlys a /tell asking to party. I usually start with (Please forgive me.) then go on to list the jobs and levels in the party as well as where we'll be fighting. I've gotten silence, polite refusals, and a surprising number of "OK ^^" only once have I been the subject of a tongue lashing over it.
Bottom line is, the number of people that this thread will reach is miniscule. Most people are firmly entrenched in their ways, and bringing about change en masse seems to be the stuff of legend anymore. So, rate up to the OP, it was an excellent post. Well thought out, and well written. Thank you for the only reason I've had to visit the main boards in months.
5 posts
There is a chat filter specifically designed to edit /check. it is my view that being irritated by the /check command makes you an idiot. it is -not- rude in anyway and you can filter it. /check is a command, just like tell and any other. if you're irritated by tells, use blacklist, if you don't like check messages, filter them. maybe my view is biased because i am an oldscohol MUDder, and on no MUD i played on was it ever rude to look at someone's gear, and that message is never filterable.
Quote:
There is a chat filter specifically designed to edit /check. it is my view that being irritated by the /check command makes you an idiot. it is -not- rude in anyway and you can filter it. /check is a command, just like tell and any other. if you're irritated by tells, use blacklist, if you don't like check messages, filter them. maybe my view is biased because i am an oldscohol MUDder, and on no MUD i played on was it ever rude to look at someone's gear, and that message is never filterable.
WHOOOOOOOSH!
Edited, Thu Jan 27 14:11:26 2005 by AmanoJ
It might be more accurate to say that SE screwed up the english translation of the /check message, since the JA version came first.
It seems to me, also, that in Japanese culture, respecting the difference between the public person and the private person - the self that everyone sees and the self that is more intimate - is very important, and that /check violates that boundary. It might seem very rude to look "into" a person like that as a stranger. The American sense of self is different - Americans seem to like to publicize themselves, and have a fame culture that assumes that anything not explicitly hidden is up for broadcast, or for instrumentalization.
It seems to me, also, that in Japanese culture, respecting the difference between the public person and the private person - the self that everyone sees and the self that is more intimate - is very important, and that /check violates that boundary. It might seem very rude to look "into" a person like that as a stranger. The American sense of self is different - Americans seem to like to publicize themselves, and have a fame culture that assumes that anything not explicitly hidden is up for broadcast, or for instrumentalization.
Quote:
I dont know why, nobody to my knowledge has ever found the reasoning, but SE screwed up with the JP translation of /check.
Where as we see: "<player> examines you."
the JP clients see something like: "<player> stares intently at you."
Where as we see: "<player> examines you."
the JP clients see something like: "<player> stares intently at you."
About /check
1) Using filters are fine, but sometimes people do not use it (regardless of nationality of the player). You cannot say, "You have a filter. You should use, so I can examine you."
2) It does not hurt to ask before /check. Common courtsey. It does no harm.
3) Being /check has sexual reference among Japanese player. You may not think so, but there is a different point of view from Japanese players. It is nice to respect that difference.
That is indeed very true. And usually appearance of new racial group, sometime lack of knowledge of them can translate to discrimiation and suspicion very fast.
It is remarkable in Europe that so many small nations, and each small nations interact and meet each other all the time. In a vast nation like US, China, Russia and Brazil, such interaction may never occur to certain people.
1) Using filters are fine, but sometimes people do not use it (regardless of nationality of the player). You cannot say, "You have a filter. You should use, so I can examine you."
2) It does not hurt to ask before /check. Common courtsey. It does no harm.
3) Being /check has sexual reference among Japanese player. You may not think so, but there is a different point of view from Japanese players. It is nice to respect that difference.
Quote:
for the second part, there's also some part in Africa, Russia, China, and Brazil that have never seen a person of a differnt color.
That is indeed very true. And usually appearance of new racial group, sometime lack of knowledge of them can translate to discrimiation and suspicion very fast.
It is remarkable in Europe that so many small nations, and each small nations interact and meet each other all the time. In a vast nation like US, China, Russia and Brazil, such interaction may never occur to certain people.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
7 posts
A very nicely thought out post and I will confess I didnt read all or even most of the responses but from what I did read it seemed people got into a serious discussion instead of a flame war which is always nice and the point of these forums.
on that note follows my question.. what do u do or what do u say to people like...well I wont name anyone but I am refering to NAs, players using the NA version of the game who have <JPN Party Only> in their search comment? People who think NAs are scum who will always be the underclass and try to kiss the asses of those few stuborn japanese players who do not recognise the potential in the NA comunity. I have personaly come accross players just like me that started to play much like me when the game was released in NA who have JPN ONLY in their seach comments. Shouldnt these people out of everyone understand the NA community better then any japanese player? Shouldnt they know better then anyone where all the weaknesses of NA players come from and give NA players a chance to prove themselves? Now these are the people I truly dislike.
on that note follows my question.. what do u do or what do u say to people like...well I wont name anyone but I am refering to NAs, players using the NA version of the game who have <JPN Party Only> in their search comment? People who think NAs are scum who will always be the underclass and try to kiss the asses of those few stuborn japanese players who do not recognise the potential in the NA comunity. I have personaly come accross players just like me that started to play much like me when the game was released in NA who have JPN ONLY in their seach comments. Shouldnt these people out of everyone understand the NA community better then any japanese player? Shouldnt they know better then anyone where all the weaknesses of NA players come from and give NA players a chance to prove themselves? Now these are the people I truly dislike.
great post. i thought i would add my 2 cents to the discussion. i dont blame for either NA players or JP players seaking to play with their own. i dotn consider it racist or elitest. i personally dont mind which party i gt accepted to, howerever i prefer to play with NA players for 1 fact i can communicate with other players in my group. first off the auto-translate feature is horrbile.
i have had plenty of JP players in my party and generall i consider them good player ans very respectful, but it is hard to discuss on the fly game strategies mid-battle trying to use the auto- translate. plus on the down time it is nice to chat with fellow party members.
just my to cents and again i really coomend the original post it was a nice insight into the JP players.
i have had plenty of JP players in my party and generall i consider them good player ans very respectful, but it is hard to discuss on the fly game strategies mid-battle trying to use the auto- translate. plus on the down time it is nice to chat with fellow party members.
just my to cents and again i really coomend the original post it was a nice insight into the JP players.
I've had enough with people posting that they know exactly what a JP reads when they are checked, because there is clearly no consensus. I've heard it means you're staring, staring intently, looking them up and down, something expressing sexual intent, etc.
I don't know about you, but usually getting multiple different answers to the same question means one or more people don't know what they are talking about.
I don't know about you, but usually getting multiple different answers to the same question means one or more people don't know what they are talking about.
Personally I dont mind people examining me even though I myself will not do it to people I do not now. I may ocasionally examine my friend after he tells me he bought some new equipment , but mainly I avoid it due to the fact that many people get angry when others examine them. I have alos noticed that examining seems to diminish over time as noob status tends to fade. Many lower level people are curious as to what kind of equipment is avilable to jobs at higher levels. Higher level people most likely know what most of the equipment is by simply looking at it anyways. When I started out I would sometimes examine people so I could tell myself, "That will be me someday"..
If you think about it though it is kind of ridiculous that someone would find it rude to be examined. I respect others' feelings about it, but to me I don't see what all the fuss is about.
If you think about it though it is kind of ridiculous that someone would find it rude to be examined. I respect others' feelings about it, but to me I don't see what all the fuss is about.
AmanoJ wrote:
Quote:
There is a chat filter specifically designed to edit /check. it is my view that being irritated by the /check command makes you an idiot. it is -not- rude in anyway and you can filter it. /check is a command, just like tell and any other. if you're irritated by tells, use blacklist, if you don't like check messages, filter them. maybe my view is biased because i am an oldscohol MUDder, and on no MUD i played on was it ever rude to look at someone's gear, and that message is never filterable.
WHOOOOOOOSH!
Edited, Thu Jan 27 14:11:26 2005 by AmanoJ
OT:
This is why I think some people are self-centered. To them, "I' and "me" are the most important words.
If you do things that annoy someone and you know it. Well, stop.
If someone annoys you with tells, you have to blist him. That action is not default in the game.
How about this, if someone fights gobs on top of you and you take damage from the bombs, you could go to another place, would you do that?
Why bother others so that they have to take extra step to be at peace?
I have no problem with people who /check me. I have big problem with idiots that /check continuously every 2-3 seconds even I don't put anything else or take off anything. I think those idiots just try to start something.
Why don't I turning on the check filter? Because sometimes I'd like to check others too. However, I don't know if my action will be welcomed or not. I would wave at the person, if he check me, I'd check him. If not, I'd ask if I really want to see something.
It pays one way or another to be nice.
75WAR/75PLD/75DRG/75NIN/75RDM/75BLM/74SAM
53DRK
46THF/43WHM/41BST/40BRD/40RNG/39BLU/
24MNK/7SMN/1PUP/1COR/15DNC/11SCH
Cook:70.0 Cloth:53.0 Bone:52.x Wood:52.x Leather:35.x Smithing:26.0 Gold:22.x Alchemy:71.x Fishing: 19.x
Windurst: 10. RoZ: Done. CoP: Done. ToAU:31? WotG:3 First Mini:not started
Suppanomimi earring: mine!!! (obtained in an alliance with 2-3 black mages) ^_^V
53DRK
46THF/43WHM/41BST/40BRD/40RNG/39BLU/
24MNK/7SMN/1PUP/1COR/15DNC/11SCH
Cook:70.0 Cloth:53.0 Bone:52.x Wood:52.x Leather:35.x Smithing:26.0 Gold:22.x Alchemy:71.x Fishing: 19.x
Windurst: 10. RoZ: Done. CoP: Done. ToAU:31? WotG:3 First Mini:not started
Suppanomimi earring: mine!!! (obtained in an alliance with 2-3 black mages) ^_^V
With other people mentioning the thought of simultaneous releases solving the problem, this probably is not possible. Honestly many of the PS2 players that were newbs (not n00bs) and have learned the game's many intricacies and such blend right into PC players now. If they speak my language, I have no reason to discriminate unless they turn out to be a complete moron. Of course, if they do I resort to kicking, but even then I'll usually give them tips first about how to fix the problem they're having with their job and give them a chance to correct.
However, there's no way I can miraculously blend in as a JP player all of a sudden. This is the crux of the problem: even barring the problems with the "n00bish" NAs early on because of level difference, American players still can act like jerks and give a bad name to other American players. Quite simply a simultaneous release can't change folks that act like jackasses no matter what and the people that latch on to and associate that with their nationality.
However, my LS and I are very JP friendly ourselves and have made our own efforts to accomodate JP players when they're willing to play with US players. We were all heading out to level second subs in Buburimu Penninsula one day via running through Valkurm. We picked up a couple extra players to fill out the party. One was a an American player, and the other was a JP Taru PLD named "Happiness". Happiness was delightfully nice the whole time, and our LS members were well trained folks. Between battles *2* members were crafting juice at all times and handing it to all magic users, refusing to accept money in return.
That JP player seemed not only shocked but extremely excited to be in this group as we ran through valk, picked him up, and headed to Buburimu as the first step. We blew through chain 4 and 5 against Bub Pugs, continually feeding juice to the little PLD without asking anything in return. He happily accepted with a typed english "Thank you!" every time. Almost seemed surprised that we just kept the supplies coming for the sake of the team's progress. All in all probably the best experience I've had with a JP player, and it was surprisingly social seeing as the pace was ridiculously fast and we were simply being as kind as we could.
My point being, the real way to solve this if you want to play with JP players is to show courtesy, outgoing friendliness, and a high level of know how from the moment you invite them. I've not seen them in a long time, but if anyone ever spots Happiness on the server, give em a cheer. I know it's one JP player willing to take their chances with NA players now, and that's the only way we can do it. One person at a time. Of course, it also doesn't hurt to pick a plucky Taru with a name like "Happiness" either. :-D
However, there's no way I can miraculously blend in as a JP player all of a sudden. This is the crux of the problem: even barring the problems with the "n00bish" NAs early on because of level difference, American players still can act like jerks and give a bad name to other American players. Quite simply a simultaneous release can't change folks that act like jackasses no matter what and the people that latch on to and associate that with their nationality.
However, my LS and I are very JP friendly ourselves and have made our own efforts to accomodate JP players when they're willing to play with US players. We were all heading out to level second subs in Buburimu Penninsula one day via running through Valkurm. We picked up a couple extra players to fill out the party. One was a an American player, and the other was a JP Taru PLD named "Happiness". Happiness was delightfully nice the whole time, and our LS members were well trained folks. Between battles *2* members were crafting juice at all times and handing it to all magic users, refusing to accept money in return.
That JP player seemed not only shocked but extremely excited to be in this group as we ran through valk, picked him up, and headed to Buburimu as the first step. We blew through chain 4 and 5 against Bub Pugs, continually feeding juice to the little PLD without asking anything in return. He happily accepted with a typed english "Thank you!" every time. Almost seemed surprised that we just kept the supplies coming for the sake of the team's progress. All in all probably the best experience I've had with a JP player, and it was surprisingly social seeing as the pace was ridiculously fast and we were simply being as kind as we could.
My point being, the real way to solve this if you want to play with JP players is to show courtesy, outgoing friendliness, and a high level of know how from the moment you invite them. I've not seen them in a long time, but if anyone ever spots Happiness on the server, give em a cheer. I know it's one JP player willing to take their chances with NA players now, and that's the only way we can do it. One person at a time. Of course, it also doesn't hurt to pick a plucky Taru with a name like "Happiness" either. :-D
The key is to think from the other person's point of view, and that person may have a very different interpretion of what something means. It is not right to think, "This is fine for me, so it has to be fine for you too. If not, it is your problem."
If someone does not like be checked for whatever reason, then do not check him. The rules may allow you to check him, but it does not mean you should check him. The right to do something does not equate you should do it.
If someone does not like be checked for whatever reason, then do not check him. The rules may allow you to check him, but it does not mean you should check him. The right to do something does not equate you should do it.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
The thing about checking someone is how its translated in japanese and english. When the Japanese players see it its translated into something like "Looks you up and down" or something deragatory like how you would like at a playboy centerfold in a mini skirt and a halter top walking down the street. In english its just shown as examines you, meaning just looks at your armor/weapons. I dont mind being checked because its usually by people that are lower lvl then me or people that dont have as good of equipment and then later comment on how thats some cool armor you have. When i had my monk and having full AF and those cool looking black melee gloves i didnt think i would never get checked. Its hard to resist when your someone wearing lizard armor and a bone axe and aspis to check someone in bright orange and black armor. Or being in yutunga and seeing someone use Dragon Kick on a smithy.
Oh and JP partys are almost always more effiecient then NA partys. Not saying this outta the blue but all the partys where i was the only NA in it i always always got great exp. Also when one person leaves the whole party disbands which is another reason why i like pts with japanese players then NAs. You dont get the g2g 30 seconds later log off ******** as soon as you show up to there party.
Oh and JP partys are almost always more effiecient then NA partys. Not saying this outta the blue but all the partys where i was the only NA in it i always always got great exp. Also when one person leaves the whole party disbands which is another reason why i like pts with japanese players then NAs. You dont get the g2g 30 seconds later log off ******** as soon as you show up to there party.
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