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Japanese Players & my observationsFollow

#27 Jan 26 2005 at 10:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I was in PT once where it was me, another NA DD, and the rest were all JPs. The JPs were all chatting away, joking at eachother, discussing tips, etc. The NA DD sends me a tell..."Geee, I feel like a deaf-mute here...so boring ><"

Sounds kinda white trash to me. I am white, and I live in a racially diverse area in New Jersey. My downstairs neighbors are spanish, the ones across from me are asian.. I rarely hear them speak english. I go to McDonalds, the people at the register are spanish, and they coordinate my order in spanish with other people. I'm used to hearing spanish, asian languages, eastern european languages, and middle eastern languages all the time. As a New Yorker you must be used to this also.

I'll say right now that I have been in parties with japanese players who spoke little or no english, and it *never* had a negative effect on the party. One of the reasons is that eventually people just "figure it out." The WHM does not need to understand the tank to know that when the HP bar gets kinda low, he probably needs to be healed. I'm a monk, I don't need a big complicated lecture on my role in the party. Tell me the skillchain, I'll tell you when I'm paralyzed. It's not rocket science.
#28 Jan 26 2005 at 11:29 PM Rating: Decent
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94 posts
Its not only about PT directions though sub. it also about normal chatting. does get a little boring when no one talking at all or only few can understand what people are says. i know i like to chat while PT...but maybe some dont care. /shrug
#29 Jan 27 2005 at 12:04 AM Rating: Decent
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5,339 posts
Well, you can always talk to your linkshell. Joining a party does not force you to communicate only with them. I rarely talk even in NA parties, I prefer to focus on the business at hand. I'm not really interested in how the weather is there or HOW 'BOUT THEM YANKEES?! I don't load FFXI to have these kinds of conversations.

Just cuz I am not a chatterbox doesn't mean I can't be beneficial to a party. I'll speak when spoken to, and I try to be friendly, but I don't need to be overly social to be effective at my job.
#30 Jan 27 2005 at 1:26 AM Rating: Good
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94 posts
thats it though, not everyone is same as you. many like to chat while PT and if they cant then they dont have so much fun. Im not saying that all are like that but many are. its social game and lot of people play like that.

i'm different than you, if i cant understand what everyone talking about then i feel uncomfortable even though i know i can do my job. if i cant understand what they want me to do in an emergency too it can be bad =(
#31 Jan 27 2005 at 2:09 AM Rating: Default
divisortheory wrote:
Most of the population here is stuck up, conceited, and think that everyone ows THEM the favor. But it's the other way around. When we stop running around like jackasses {/check}ing every single person we see for no reason...THEN, maybe then we'll start seeing a good response from our Japanese friends.


ya so i went and created an account here just to comment on this....i am an NA player, and i do not understand all this /check ing nonsence. what is so wrong with checking someones lvl or their equipment as u run by. i run through /check ing almost every person because i like to see the range of ppl and the sometimes odd equipment they like to wear. nothing gets on my nerves more than someone booting me out of their inventory. it is the most pointless act of being rude on purpose for no reason and ... GRRRR....anyway i'm done...just wanted to comment on the checking thing...other than that i thought this was a great forum. i already understood the whole jp only thing because i do that myself. i dont usually invite only 1 jp into my party. if i have a mix i always try to go half and half for equal fun for all ^^ and to build on someones statement earlier in post...this post is kinda harsh on the NA's...i've partied with quite a few compete JP noobs in the many hours of gaming i've logged.

oh yeah and i really did only create this account to reply to this one post so feel free to reply to mine all u want but i will probably never be back !!!

oh yes i edited this post like 4 times before i got everything out that i wanted to say lol...so forgive me if some of it doesnt make sence........

Edited, Thu Jan 27 02:16:47 2005 by Lakshmibacco
#32 Jan 27 2005 at 2:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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5,339 posts
Well like I previously said, I live in an ethnically diverse place anyway, so not being able to understand people is "normal" in my everyday activities. I don't see FFXI as being anything new. Aside from that, you seem to be making it not a language thing but strictly a social thing. I've never seen "Talkative ONLY" or "Quiet ONLY" in search comments. I'm sure there are japanese players who don't talk much. Heck I've been in parties with all JP's where I've been more talkative than some of the other people. I have also seen japanese people having shouting matches in Jeuno, which gets annoying really fast.

I am a veteran of Phantasy Star Online, which was my first game which exposed me to the JP ONLY concept. That game was *painfully* easy, and it even had a very good autotranslator with all kinds of things in it ("What sports do you like?' "Where do you live?", "What are your hobbies?" and other conversational things and USEFUL game-related things) and even with all that, the JP's just didn't want anything to do with us. Like in FFXI they basically dumped the blame for all of PSO's problems on the US players, even though you could see them very openly cheating and using the same exploits and hacks as US players used.

#33 Jan 27 2005 at 2:19 AM Rating: Default
SSubZero wrote:
Well like I previously said, I live in an ethnically diverse place anyway, so not being able to understand people is "normal" in my everyday activities. I don't see FFXI as being anything new. Aside from that, you seem to be making it not a language thing but strictly a social thing. I've never seen "Talkative ONLY" or "Quiet ONLY" in search comments. I'm sure there are japanese players who don't talk much. Heck I've been in parties with all JP's where I've been more talkative than some of the other people. I have also seen japanese people having shouting matches in Jeuno, which gets annoying really fast.

I am a veteran of Phantasy Star Online, which was my first game which exposed me to the JP ONLY concept. That game was *painfully* easy, and it even had a very good autotranslator with all kinds of things in it ("What sports do you like?' "Where do you live?", "What are your hobbies?" and other conversational things and USEFUL game-related things) and even with all that, the JP's just didn't want anything to do with us. Like in FFXI they basically dumped the blame for all of PSO's problems on the US players, even though you could see them very openly cheating and using the same exploits and hacks as US players used.


nice post...good to see ppl defending na's

edit...rate up ^^

Edited, Thu Jan 27 02:21:25 2005 by Lakshmibacco
#34 Jan 27 2005 at 2:38 AM Rating: Decent
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609 posts

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what is so wrong with checking someones lvl or their equipment as u run by.


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nothing gets on my nerves more than someone booting me out of their inventory.


If you feel that you have every right to look at other people's stuff, they have got every right to refuse showing them to you. It goes both ways.

And this is not an NA bashing post, it is just one that is attempting to put the Japanese view across. (those that posted on their boards anyway).You might not realize it, but there's more than just Japanese, NA, EU in this game, you have people playing from Korea, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia even.

Edit for clarification...

Edited, Thu Jan 27 03:06:32 2005 by Oogami
#35 Jan 27 2005 at 2:45 AM Rating: Good
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1,250 posts
uchipu wrote:
Secondly, I consider myself NA, as in "North American Player" I play on the NA version, I live in NYC. Because my FFXI is NA version, I can't input in Japanese. So, I've been treated much the same way NAs do...who cares if I can type in Roma-ji. JPs still think I'm NA.

Personally, I think SE screwed up royally with their decision to disable Japanese input support in the NA client, while allowing the NA client to view Japanese. And the sad thing is, most JP don't even know that the NA client is lacking in that regard.

Quote:
So it's hard for them to sit there and read English flow by in the PT chat window. They do try to understand it but will certainly diminish their fun time - it would be like going back to school for them!!

I think part of this is due to the "IM culture" NA playerbase. I'm from the IRC generation (that is, pre-IM), and I detest having to read words like "ur" and "2". Gives me a headache, and I could easily see where even a JP player who has a decent understanding of English would have a hard time keeping up with that type of conversation.

-- Starfox
#36 Jan 27 2005 at 2:49 AM Rating: Good
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675 posts
Thank you for the perspective.
#37 Jan 27 2005 at 2:50 AM Rating: Good
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576 posts
I really enjoy the view from another perspective, Rate up!

not to hijack the thread, but I gotta respond to this:

Quote:
what is so wrong with checking someones lvl or their equipment as u run by.


I usually play bst, so I get checked fairly often. I can understand people being a bit curious at a bst in af.

What I dont understand is why, when I was playing around on my mule, a lvl 8 MNK with no subjob, I get checked by almost every person running by, most on chocobos.

Seriously, how much different am I from any other lvl8 mnk out there? I'm not /anon... if you want to just see my lvl, do a /sea.

I'm sure it sounds exaggerated (sp?), but I was truly amazed at the amount of /checks I got today.
#38 Jan 27 2005 at 3:06 AM Rating: Default
like i said before...whats wrong with people checking you. it is one line of text. if you get 100 checks in the 4 hours u play does it kill u to have to read "<name> examines you."

edit..../sea takes an unecessarily longer amount of time...not being lazy but why would u take something that requires 1 second and turn it into a 5 second event?

Edited, Thu Jan 27 03:10:27 2005 by Lakshmibacco
#39 Jan 27 2005 at 3:09 AM Rating: Decent
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609 posts
Nothing wrong, but they do have the right to be irritated, like you being irritated when they 'swap equipment' to block your viewing.
#40 Jan 27 2005 at 3:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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233 posts
good post. i wish i could form my words in japanese so i can post how i feel to them too. anyways, here's my culture rant:

first off, a little about my background; i am 1/2 japanese, 1/4 irish, 1/4 german, an all american mutt more or less. the japanese side of my family pretty much raised me. also a warning, there is a case in which language might be offend by some readers. if you are easily offended, please take heed to my warning.

Americans as a whole, typically have to be the first in everything. if there is no first, then we have to be the best. majority of the time, many of us cannot stand to be the average joe. this translate into games like these in us striving for the best gear to have at our lvls. so, most of the higher end game gear like Scorpion Harness for example, would typically be achieved sooner on average than most.

the best of the best mentaily is not the only one going on here also. if you look at the typical American, we are strong in the individual sense, in that, the single is greater than the whole. we can see this in the fact that many player tend to do their own thing and get offensive when one suggest a differnt way of doing something to better help the player. this strong sense of the one out weighing the whole is strickly enforced by images and ideas propergated by the media.

not all Americans are like this, but on average, we typically act this way. and for the "being an *** for the sake of being an ***" all you have to do is look at the media, in particular, shows like "Viva la Bam!" the show is popular amongst the teen/young adult market, which is the market that has the biggest population in FFXI.

warning possible strong lanuage; skip over this paragraph if you are easily offended, i make no quams about not self censoring this part due to my personal belief that inorder to deminish the power of a word, we gotta take it away from those to whom we give the power to. i highly suggest you read the book "******" for more on this line thought

i also tend to notice that many Americans feel that once a word has lost meaning to the "mainstream" ie fallen out of use, that it's meaning and weight have deminished greatly. a prime example of this is the term "***." not going to get into a big arguement over this, but look at it from the Japanese point of veiw. the war has been over for over 50 years now, but the impact that it had still lingers. many Japanese-Americans, one of whom was my grandfather, were interned in camps during WWII by the USA government, despite 'Kormatsu.' the term "***" is just as bad as the term "******," it is just not as known since it's use has fallen out of favor since the 1950's. while the term may not have such an impact by those in the suburbs, or by those who were never affected by the word, it still rings hard today due to the vast amounts of propaganda and over all hate for the Japanese during that time. this is at odds though with the modern thought process that if it offends you, speak up as loudly as possible. for examples of this, you only need to look at TV, movies and music. "Dogma" was hounded by many church groups b/c of how offensive it is to them, yet i bet none of them would bother with the term "***." not only that, but TV shows that depict a homosexual relation, wheather it is full on sex as potrayed in the same manner as movie potray heterosexual sex, or kissing, and over the top violence. even odder still, most of the issues that many of the religious right would find offensive are in the book that they so well tout.

you can see the proof of this in that the N word is censored, but "***' isn't, by the auto censor.

end of warning

Japanese players aren't gods by any means. i've ran into quite a few in my days; both in the dunes and out even in the tree or the cape. they make the same mistakes we do, say the same stupid stuff we do, laugh at the the same as us (though they use "w" instead of "lol"), and, they are just as n00by as the rest of us. can in point, i know of at least 5 single JP players whom did not know that a BST pet, if conn'ed EM or below to the highest party member, does not steal party EXP. oh, and they were lvl60+.

mostly, i posted this for us to take a look at ourselves and see the root cause for the majority of our actions. in order to become a better person, both in life and in game, we must understand who we are, how we became who we are, and where we might be going.
#41 Jan 27 2005 at 3:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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89 posts
To be honest in my experience, it makes no difference what race, colour, creed, or country you live in there are nice people and idiots from them all....
#42 Jan 27 2005 at 6:55 AM Rating: Good
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643 posts
Wonderful post, thank you very much for posting!

One thing I don't understand, and perhaps I could get clarification for, is: has it ever been addressed on a Japanese board like this *why* NAs are so check-happy? It seems as if most people tend to do it out of curiosity with no ill-will involved. I think I remember reading that the translator brings the phrase across as if we're checking them in a not-so-innocent way, yet has it never been said that while that's the way the *program* states it, that's not the *user's* intent? If so, do these people have short-term memory? Are they told 'They do it strictly out of curiosity', only to be checked and think 'OMG! Why do you do that?!' You were just told, it hasn't changed in the past 5 seconds!

If some culture said Hello by tapping you on the shoulder, you might be annoyed at first, but eventually you'd just get used to it and realize that while you might not love it, you understand the intent behind it.

Joe Schmo looks you up & down.
*thinks to self: I understand that that's not *really* what it means, they're just admiring my gear*

Doesn't seem too hard.
#43 Jan 27 2005 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
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One thing I don't understand, and perhaps I could get clarification for, is: has it ever been addressed on a Japanese board like this *why* NAs are so check-happy? It seems as if most people tend to do it out of curiosity with no ill-will involved.

In most cases this is exactly what it is. I often see people with really cool armor and I'm curious what it is and what kind of stats it has. When we were new, we were /checking everyone, because man, there was 50 billion armors and weapons and we wanted to know what was in store for us. In those days Allakhazam was still light on info and nobody knew where anything came from or what alot of things even looked like.

The option to filter /check messages is absolutely perfect. You can be checked all the time and never know it. Ignorance is bliss. For the record, I haven't /checked anyone intentionally since soon after I started playing over a year ago. I take it to the extreme and I rarely /check even people with bazaars. There's ONE person I go to for the foods I use and that's it. Unless that person is not around, I have no desire to /check anyone else ever.
#44 Jan 27 2005 at 8:48 AM Rating: Decent
Ok I understand what your saying here but one thing that has come to me is if JP players think that they are better than us then I want to know what are they doing better than me.

I play this game not to level as fast as possible but to be the best person in my party regardless of the level that to me is so much more important.

I have spent some serious time trying to make my gil and have sweated doing so I have kitted my MNK out with some really good stuff now.

I have learned my job and I wont lie mainly through these forums and a little in game, I know what skill chains and MB's that my party can achieve, but if I’m missing something then I want to know.

I would love to be in a JP party just to see how they operate but unfortunately I don’t think that is going to happen well not at my level anyway.


#45 Jan 27 2005 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
why is it always JP and NA, what about us EURs ?!?!
#46 Jan 27 2005 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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89 posts
.........cos we are lush and everyone loves us!!

except if ya a Galka Monk in Subliar..in a hot East Altepa Des....erm....
#47 Jan 27 2005 at 9:35 AM Rating: Decent
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249 posts
So now, what do we do?

Ive been invited into several all Japanese parties. I dont speak or read a bit of japanese. Sometimes I wonder what they are saying, but never do I assume it is bad of me. I figure if they do not like the way I play they will kick me.

Once I got a /t to join a party. When we all got together whm started casting tele Yhoat..... I didnt have that crystal yet. So the rest of the party dissapears. I type "sorry, tele yhoat, me, no :(.

I figured they might boot me, but they didnt. The whole party came back to Holla. I emoted Joy, followed by welcome and a bow to all. they all ^^ at me and we choco'd to Jueno together.

The party lasted till all had gained one level and then ^^ disband thank you so I knew party was over.

What can I do, as one person, to let players from all countries know that if you give me a shot I will try to be a good member of the party?

Oh and one more question. I assume ^^ is included when all is well is this accurate? Should ^^ make me relax and feel comfy as it does or is it also used to mean other?
#48 Jan 27 2005 at 9:45 AM Rating: Decent
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3,139 posts
Excellent post, RATE UP !!!


Well i had a bunch i wanted to say, but i think ill leave it at

Excellent post !!

#49 Jan 27 2005 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good
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3,883 posts
I see a lot of you trying to figure out the 'newbie period.' That is, what lvl or rank you stop seeing newbies. Let me tell you, I know a Rank 10, Lv54 NIN/WAR that... well... let's just say he might as well equip an earth staff.
#50 Jan 27 2005 at 9:53 AM Rating: Default
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901 posts
I do consider /checking rude, and even as a NA player, I get irritated when I am /checked all the time in Jueno.

I dont mind if I have a bazaar flag up, in which case I encourage people to check me, and I feel that anyone with a bazaar flag up wants to be checked.

But honestly, why dont you make a macro of /sea <t>

Makes it so much simpler, and it doesnt **** people off. I have even made an equipment switch macro to boot people out of my inventory, simply because it does irritate me.

This /checking nonsense really has to stop - And you all need to realize that it isnt only JP that dont like to be checked, it is NA too
#51 Jan 27 2005 at 10:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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582 posts
Quote:
One thing I don't understand, and perhaps I could get clarification for, is: has it ever been addressed on a Japanese board like this *why* NAs are so check-happy?


Yes, this has actually been discussed many many many times. It's a dead horse on thier forums as well.

Basically there were two arguments, much like ours. One side said it's a game function, the auto-translation is crappy and root of all evil, and that it is completely a normal thing in MMORPGs. Some have pointed out a similiar function in EQ2, and that basically it's a way to start a communication.

Dude1 examines you.
Dude1>>WHOA! Nice gear!! Where did you get that?
Dude2>>It's Rare/Ex...I got it off a BCNM!

The other side, much like us, say that it is very rude for NAs to examine without permission. They feel that it is an invasion of privacy and is usually followed by someone asking for money or silly /tells.

I guess much like with us, the /check function and how they take it really depends on the person. It also seemed that to those where FFXI was their first international MMORPG the function bothered them more, whereas those who have played other games, such as EQ, they didn't really care anymore.
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