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Named spawn rate tied to your Hunter Achievement status?Follow

#27 Feb 07 2019 at 1:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Exactly, which is why I proposed the test.

Sippin, I'm still willing to try it, if you want to make a list of HoF names and what order to group them in.
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#28 Feb 07 2019 at 11:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Before flipping the coin, probability predicts that there will be an even distribution of heads and tails, however my experience contradicts that. My experience doesn't change the probability of an even distribution. That is what I was trying to demonstrate.

It just makes no sense why they would purposely make it harder for someone to complete the Hunter Achievement just because they are mostly complete, especially considering all of the numerous factors that would go into such an algorithm like how close others are in the zone/in the vicinity of the named and how far along THEY are. It makes far more sense that initially the odds of a named spawning are directly tied to how fast they want items entering the world, but then you suggest they change the formula to '***** the Hunter Achievement seekers' after the content becomes what? Obsolete?

You are trying to find the complicated (and devious, almost conspiratory I might add) answer instead of you just flipped 8 heads out of 10 because 'universe'.

However much you have added to the community doesn't change the fact that this theory just simply isn't plausible. That's my opinion, of course. If you want to try and prove your claim, have at it.
#29 Feb 07 2019 at 2:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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tatankaseventh wrote:
Exactly, which is why I proposed the test.

Sippin, I'm still willing to try it, if you want to make a list of HoF names and what order to group them in.


I already suggested a test, but it got lost in the static.

The last two nameds I need in Evantil are Uzrinar and Seedspitter.

The last two nameds I need in Plane of Shadow are Xorla Var and ZeL Kaxri.

Please camp them all. If you get them quick, it's anecdotal evidence supporting my contention altho I would agree this would not be definitive. If it takes you a lot of clears, then it would support the argument that thru sheer chance I left the "rare" hunter spawns for last, altho again far from definitive.

I have cleared PHers for these 4 nameds at least 20 times each, probably even more. Not only did I clear the PHer spots showed on the Brewall maps, I've cleared any other similarly nameds mobs. For example, the last 6 clears for Uzrinar, I cleared every ape at the top of the big tree and that must be some 25 apes.

Every other named in both zones, I doubt I had to clear more than 6x. Rather often 1 or 2 clears was sufficient.

I havent had much play time available lately but I also want to test both clearing with an alt in group as well as clearing with my "backup" druid.

I do find this somewhat intriguing. I'm willing to believe it's all the RNG but my gut tells me, from a LOT of experience doing Hunter achievements, that there's something more at work...


Edited, Feb 7th 2019 3:40pm by Sippin

Edited, Feb 7th 2019 3:41pm by Sippin
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#30 Feb 07 2019 at 2:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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My apologies, I was assuming we'd do a new zone together (HoF zones). I missed that you wanted me to camp the ones mentioned here.

I'll get on it, and report back. Note: with my sporadic playtime, there may not be much to report for a day or three or four ;)

Note that getting them quickly DOES NOT prove your theory. If they were the last ones I had left in the zone, then getting them quickly would DISPROVE (or, more correctly, be a contrary data point). But getting the first mobs I go for in that zone, quickly, could just prove I have an equine footwear in my derriere! ;)

That's why I wanted to try a new zone, with the two of us going through the mobs, 3 by 3, in the opposite order. That would be a better test, and possible proof, of the hypothesis.

Edited, Feb 7th 2019 4:05pm by tatankaseventh

Edited, Feb 7th 2019 4:05pm by tatankaseventh
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#31 Feb 07 2019 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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I don't think any result is a proof, in the mathematical sense. The zones we could do as you describe would be Breeding Grounds, where I've killed only Seros, and the Hearts of Fear triad of subzones, where I've only killed Simira and Soulhollow. We could tackle those as well. I'll go alphabetically and you go reverse-alphabetically.

Hearts of Fear could be a bad sample since the achievement is really tied to three distinct zones. The code, if it exists as I think, could work in each zone separately. Maybe best to focus on each one sequentially, following the same alphabetical scheme.

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#32 Feb 07 2019 at 5:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Breeding Grounds sounds easier. I'll go for that one, reverse alpha, in groups of three. And the 4 you mentioned in PoS and Evantil.
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#33 Feb 08 2019 at 11:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Started in Evantil with the gorilla (Uzrinar). Have cleared PH area 5 times now, so far nothing (see map on right at https://rof.eqresource.com/nameevantil.php, I'm clearing the 4 platforms forming a parallelogram, with the two spawn spots marking what would be the left side of said parallelogram). This is with no names down in Evantil. Interestingly, when I got to Evantil, none of the 10 named mobs were up. That's unusual, when I first get to a new zone to hunt names, there's usually at least a couple up.

Anyway, this looks like a big enough time commitment, I may put it on a back burner. I will update here, when I have something useful to report.

One other comment: I liked HoT better, with PHs having very specific names which corresponded with the main Name. For this, I'm probably clearing more mobs than needed, since I'm not positive the two spots shown are the only possible spawn spots. So, another factor which may come into play here, you may not be clearing all possible PHs (or even the correct PHs), so that could also be a factor. But then, again, as you say, only on the ones you leave to the last group of three?

Another question for you... you've mentioned a few RoF zones where you're stuck. What was your experience in the other RoF zones? No issues? If not, then maybe this is just a bad RNG run. Also, any hard to spawn names early in a zone, before you got to the last set of 3?

Edited, Feb 8th 2019 1:00pm by tatankaseventh
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#34 Feb 08 2019 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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I just sat in the hallway where Sliggles spawns with my mercs up and killed whatever mobs were in the area. Then AFK (more like, minimize EQ and work) for 22 minutes then check. Took about 2 days to get him to spawn if I recall, but then he spawned again on respawn...That's just how it goes. I've done hunters for every expansion (except RoS/TBL and the old expacs they reintroduced). This is just how it goes. Some names pop in 1 clear. Others have taken 50-60 hours of mind numbing rage. I really wish they would implement some type of code that if a certain amount of PHs were killed (say 60), the named would be forced spawned.
#35 Feb 08 2019 at 6:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, now I'm sucked in ;)

Decided the spawn markings on the map were specific enough, and corresponded to actual spawn spots well enough, I'm just going to trust them, and clear PHs for all three names at the top of the tree.

Have now cleared PHs 8, 2, and 2 times for the gorilla, vine maw and fear howler names. Nothing so far.
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#36 Feb 08 2019 at 9:28 PM Rating: Good
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Well, I hadn't checked Plane of Shadow in 2 days. Ran over there just now and Zel Kaxri was up. Tracked down and killed him. This is an example of another pattern I see sometimes: named mobs will seemingly appear in a zone spontaneously when nobody has been clearing. Now I can't say that here for sure since I hadn't been in the zone for 2 days. It's certainly possible another player was doing the Hunter achievement, cleared his PHers and never came back to see the result of his clearing. But given that in many hours spent in this zone I've never run into another player doing Hunter achievement, that would be unlikely.

The good news for me is I'm down to one mob for Plane of Shadow.
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#37 Feb 08 2019 at 10:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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OK, doing the clearing for the 3 mobs at the top of the tree, I got the vine maw and fear howler on the same round. So, 4 clearings, and then the named for both.

For Uzrinar, I'm up to 13 clearings with no joy so far. Either it's a bear to spawn, or the available info on which spots are the spawn points are not accurate.

As to finding a name up, it happens all the time. I got the majority of HoT names just cruising through and picking off whatever was up. For me, I would be that guy leaving it up. When I'm clearing lots of spots, it's just continuous cycles, like I was doing at the top of the tree. But, once I got the two, I just had the gorilla left. Cleared those spots, and then logged out of boredom. I'll log in tomorrow, and hopefully find it up.

One other possibility: The server, or the zone, was reset, and that popped the name. I was shocked yesterday to log in without my trader needing to be logged out. First time that's happened on Tunare, other than patch days, in a very long time. But it does happen.

Edited, Feb 8th 2019 11:32pm by tatankaseventh

Edited, Feb 9th 2019 2:14am by tatankaseventh
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#38 Feb 09 2019 at 7:11 AM Rating: Good
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For Uzrinar, there is no doubt the apes at the top of the trees are the PHers. Do you reference Magelo? Magelo shows confirmed spots the mob has spawned.

Your experience with this named, assuming you have not killed a lot of other nameds in this zone, seem to support the fact that perhaps he's just designed to be rare and I just happened to leave him for last by coincidence. He is at the top of the tree and I did concentrate on the easier-to-access mobs on the grounds first. I'm not close-minded here but I will add my experience with this phenomenon is in multiple zones.

Edited, Feb 9th 2019 6:55pm by Sippin
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#39 Feb 09 2019 at 8:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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No, I've only been at the top of the trees. I didn't even know there were apes on the ground.

I was referring to the specific spawn spots mentioned on EQR and on ZAM. There are two very specific spawns spots on two adjacent platforms (well, a platform, and on a bridge nearby). If he can spawn elsewhere, then just clearing those two spots wouldn't be very effective. However, the specific spots called out for the other two up there were spot on, so my guess is:

1 - Uzrinar is a rare named
2 - Your internal RNG hates you, and made you leave him til last ;)

I'll keep posting as I get more updates.
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#40 Feb 09 2019 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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There are no apes on the ground. I meant I tackled the nameds who were on the ground first. And I'm still stuck with one not yet killed.
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#41 Feb 09 2019 at 2:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jinaabi wrote:
Before flipping the coin, probability predicts that there will be an even distribution of heads and tails, however my experience contradicts that. My experience doesn't change the probability of an even distribution. That is what I was trying to demonstrate.

It just makes no sense why they would purposely make it harder for someone to complete the Hunter Achievement just because they are mostly complete, especially considering all of the numerous factors that would go into such an algorithm like how close others are in the zone/in the vicinity of the named and how far along THEY are. It makes far more sense that initially the odds of a named spawning are directly tied to how fast they want items entering the world, but then you suggest they change the formula to '***** the Hunter Achievement seekers' after the content becomes what? Obsolete?

You are trying to find the complicated (and devious, almost conspiratory I might add) answer instead of you just flipped 8 heads out of 10 because 'universe'.

However much you have added to the community doesn't change the fact that this theory just simply isn't plausible. That's my opinion, of course. If you want to try and prove your claim, have at it.



^Well said and fair enough.

Sippin has a few of us interested in this (though I am not helping... no character near this content).

"Added to the community" isn't really a fair representation --Sippin is basically responsible for the posting of strats/experiences on the vast majority of instanced/mission content here for several years. So when Sippin says "this seems odd" it is noteworthy in the context of "This is a person that has seen a lot, and taken the time to tell us about it --and not prone to implausible guesses".

Plus... Sippin would like to be proven wrong just as much as right in this situation, based on how Sippin has presented themselves here over time. I see the point of the thread being sharing notes on similar content in a focused way, rather than waiting years for someone else to try it.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if the odd named is just an auto-spawn on a really long timer and not connected to the PH at all, or just that much rarer of a % to spawn from the PH. Also wouldn't surprise me if it was just sadistic EQ bad luck.
#42 Feb 09 2019 at 3:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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snailish wrote:
Jinaabi wrote:
Before flipping the coin, probability predicts that there will be an even distribution of heads and tails, however my experience contradicts that. My experience doesn't change the probability of an even distribution. That is what I was trying to demonstrate.

It just makes no sense why they would purposely make it harder for someone to complete the Hunter Achievement just because they are mostly complete, especially considering all of the numerous factors that would go into such an algorithm like how close others are in the zone/in the vicinity of the named and how far along THEY are. It makes far more sense that initially the odds of a named spawning are directly tied to how fast they want items entering the world, but then you suggest they change the formula to '***** the Hunter Achievement seekers' after the content becomes what? Obsolete?

You are trying to find the complicated (and devious, almost conspiratory I might add) answer instead of you just flipped 8 heads out of 10 because 'universe'.

However much you have added to the community doesn't change the fact that this theory just simply isn't plausible. That's my opinion, of course. If you want to try and prove your claim, have at it.



^Well said and fair enough.

Sippin has a few of us interested in this (though I am not helping... no character near this content).

"Added to the community" isn't really a fair representation --Sippin is basically responsible for the posting of strats/experiences on the vast majority of instanced/mission content here for several years. So when Sippin says "this seems odd" it is noteworthy in the context of "This is a person that has seen a lot, and taken the time to tell us about it --and not prone to implausible guesses".

Plus... Sippin would like to be proven wrong just as much as right in this situation, based on how Sippin has presented themselves here over time. I see the point of the thread being sharing notes on similar content in a focused way, rather than waiting years for someone else to try it.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if the odd named is just an auto-spawn on a really long timer and not connected to the PH at all, or just that much rarer of a % to spawn from the PH. Also wouldn't surprise me if it was just sadistic EQ bad luck.


QFT and well said

And which is why I offered to help test the theory. I also think it's a nasty RNG, but sometimes, if you catch enough bad luck, it doesn't hurt to step back and ask yourself if maybe things don't work like you think they work. Otherwise, you're just showing the definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.


Edited, Feb 9th 2019 4:47pm by tatankaseventh
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#43 Feb 09 2019 at 6:02 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
you're just showing the definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.


I never really bought this often-repeated quote, which is often attributed wrongly to Einstein. Heck, this is the exact approach players take to camping named spawns. We kill the PHers repeatedly expecting a different result than the PHer popping again and eventually (most of the time except when it's the last named I need in a zone evidently Smiley: nod) we do get a different result, i.e. the named pops.

We actually do this all the time in life. The first two girls I asked out in high school turned me down. I didn't stop and struck gold with the 3rd, who I dated for 2 years. Heck, if the first 20 had turned me down I would have kept trying, altho maybe after changing my mouthwash, anti-perspirant, etc. lol

That quote is only accurate with absolutes: if you keep adding 2+2 in a calculator and yielding 4, assuming you repeat it often enough to eliminate keying errors, you are starting to demonstrate some form of mental trouble if you keep doing this calculation expecting a 5 to result...

Edited, Feb 9th 2019 7:04pm by Sippin
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#44 Feb 09 2019 at 6:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
-Sippin is basically responsible for the posting of strats/experiences on the vast majority of instanced/mission content here for several years.


While I appreciate the nod I have to admit that for me a lot of this posting is in the way of virtual notetaking. I've had dozens of notebooks with notes about the game over the years and they always get lost, or I can't find a specific piece of info. Like I used to make tons of notes about low level zones (like Unrest or Wall of Slaughter) while I was levelling there and I used to get so tired of the zone that once I was done with it I'd junk the notes. Well, 2 years later, I'd start an alt maybe on another server and be back in that zone and darn it, all my notes are gone. Nothing really ever gets disposed of on this site (there are posts going back to 2000, maybe even 1999) so all my notes are there for my reference! If other players gain from it, more's the better.

I'm not the only one either. I remember Fayman's detailed walkthrus have helped me with lots of quests and missions, among others I can't remember atm.

This is an odd game where literally the majority of the game info comes from unofficial fan-based or fan-supported sites.
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#45 Feb 09 2019 at 10:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sippin wrote:
Quote:
you're just showing the definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.


I never really bought this often-repeated quote, which is often attributed wrongly to Einstein. Heck, this is the exact approach players take to camping named spawns. We kill the PHers repeatedly expecting a different result than the PHer popping again and eventually (most of the time except when it's the last named I need in a zone evidently Smiley: nod) we do get a different result, i.e. the named pops.

We actually do this all the time in life. The first two girls I asked out in high school turned me down. I didn't stop and struck gold with the 3rd, who I dated for 2 years. Heck, if the first 20 had turned me down I would have kept trying, altho maybe after changing my mouthwash, anti-perspirant, etc. lol

That quote is only accurate with absolutes: if you keep adding 2+2 in a calculator and yielding 4, assuming you repeat it often enough to eliminate keying errors, you are starting to demonstrate some form of mental trouble if you keep doing this calculation expecting a 5 to result...

Edited, Feb 9th 2019 7:04pm by Sippin


Apples and oranges. You didn't keep doing the same thing over and over. You asked out different girls. The correct analogy would be asking the same girl out for years, after she keeps saying no. Though, to be fair, the same thing wouldn't keep happening. Eventually, she'd get a restraining order against you ;)
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#46 Feb 10 2019 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sippin wrote:
Magelo shows confirmed spots the mob has spawned.

Edited, Feb 9th 2019 6:55pm by Sippin


It is my impression that the locations designated by Magelo are the spots where the mob is killed.


Edited, Feb 10th 2019 1:20pm by Grove
#47 Feb 10 2019 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
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No doubt. So I suppose the mob could have been pulled from his spawn spot, for sure. The rule I follow, if possible, is kill every PHer type that lurks anywhere at or near a spot flagged on Magelo. But you're right that Magelo may have extra indicators as the same named could be pulled away from his spawn point.

Good point to make, though.
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#48 Feb 10 2019 at 2:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, I'm up to 21 clears now for Uzrinar. Let's agree it's probably a tougher one to spawn. This looks like enough of a time sink, that it will move down my priority list quite a bit. Further updates will probably be sporadic on this issue.

LOL!! Immediately after posting this, I logged in, and I had done something i usually try to avoid. I had logged out at one of Uzrinar's spawn points (the one on the bridge). So, I log in, and he's beating on me :) That's 21 clears to spawn him, and again, the spawns marked on EQR appear to be reliable.

Killed him, brought up track, and Bloated Toad was also up! So, 7 clears for him. Again, the spawns mentioned on EQR appear reliable, he was at the spot next to the ramp in the "toad room" (54, 98, 974)(the room above the ant room).

For the four names I've gotten in Evantil so far, it's taken 4, 4, 21, and 7 clears.

Edited, Feb 10th 2019 4:12pm by tatankaseventh
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#49 Feb 10 2019 at 7:28 PM Rating: Good
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Finally got Xorla Vor to wrap up Plane of Shadow and as with all Hunter achievements, as much as a zone was fun to explore I'm totally sick and tired of it and don't plan to go back for a long while. Honestly, I don't know if this mob was just a true "special case" rarity, but it's weird that it would be the LAST named I tackled, since its spawn spots are just about the easiest of every named, being right in the corridors to the left and back of Aten Ha Ra and with mobs that are NOT aggressive until attacked. I was clearing the two known PHer spots every time I entered the zone, especially if I was camping nameds deeper in the castle since I'd have to go right past Xorla Vor's known spawn spots. I must have cleared those spots 40 times and killed close to 200 of the Pher mob type.

AFAIK this named is legitimately rarer than other nameds, but I still suspect it was worse for me because I didn't seriously camp him until I was down to 2-3 nameds. Take it for what it's worth but my gut tells me that something related to the camp order affected HOW rare this mob spawned for ME.

Yes, I know someone will comment that since I was killing the Pher every time I entered the zone this contradicts my thesis. But that was one-shot clearing on my way to long camps inside the castle. This just demonstrates the mob IS probably "rarer than typical" for the zone, in my mind.


Edited, Feb 10th 2019 8:30pm by Sippin
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Sippin 110 DRU *** (formerly) Max AA *** Firionia Vie
Master Artisan (300) * Baker * Brewer * Fletcher * Jeweler * Potter * Researcher * Smith * Tailor
My crew: 110 WAR ENC CLE MAG WIZ 100 SHD BER RNG PAL SHM Master Alchemist *** 85 ROG Master Tinkerer & Poison-Maker
#50 Feb 15 2019 at 4:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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362 posts
Would instanced zones, like, LDoNs would throw a spanner in the works? I mean, I've run the same damned LDoN camp trying to get the last named for Miragul's that I gave up, started an Iksar monk, and began running the Shackle quests.

...yeah, it's that bad.
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Savage Lady Nekokirei of Drinal
Predator Nekokirei of Stromm
#51 Feb 15 2019 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
Sage
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2,573 posts
Not sure it's related but I've given up on a Permafrost LDoN camp for an ac aug for my warrior because over 30 tries was enough. But that aug is rare and I can believe the RNG is responsible for my run of bad luck. There's also the divine aura clicky from, IIRC, Stoneroot Falls, or maybe an instance of it, where I cleared the entire zone---literally---about 12x but in that case I finally got it to drop.

I may just have bad luck because in all my gameplay I've never seen one of the super-rares that theoretically can drop from any mob in any zone of suitable level. They are individually extremely rare but considering how long I played it's disappointing. I think the best I've seen is a 28-slot bag.
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Sippin 110 DRU *** (formerly) Max AA *** Firionia Vie
Master Artisan (300) * Baker * Brewer * Fletcher * Jeweler * Potter * Researcher * Smith * Tailor
My crew: 110 WAR ENC CLE MAG WIZ 100 SHD BER RNG PAL SHM Master Alchemist *** 85 ROG Master Tinkerer & Poison-Maker
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