Morning Everyone,
Finally broke down and spent 20p on my long lasting enchanter charm spell: Allure. Works up to level 52 and lasts 14 minutes or so according to Alla.
Traveled to The Grey and proceeded to try it out. I could charm the big golem guys but it would only last about 1 minute or so. This was repeated 3 times and I was starting to wonder whether I bought the wrong spell. My charisma (unbuffed) is 185. I did not use any Charisma buffs but I could easily get it to 230 or so.
What am I doing wrong? Do I need to use Tash before charm? Or can I tash after Charm? Do I need to chain cast this spell? It costs 245 Mana and I need at least 8 ticks of sitting to replenish.
Please advise! Thanks in advance for your help!
Bub
Level 52 Chanter (LFG)
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Allure is an Alteration spell - how high is your Alteration?
Don't know if your skill affects the duration of a spell, but it might be...
Don't know if your skill affects the duration of a spell, but it might be...
Duration is random on charms.
yes, most certainly always tash before you charm. You can't cast tash after you charm em. Won't hurt to get your charisma as high as possible before charming as well.
I've always heard that the random charm duration is modified by magic resist, so yes, you should Tash beforehand.
It works for necromancers, at least. A tactic I've seen discussed is to charm the mob, then give it some -MR items, then re-charm. http://www.necrotalk.com/index.php?showtopic=4396&hl=charming
It works for necromancers, at least. A tactic I've seen discussed is to charm the mob, then give it some -MR items, then re-charm. http://www.necrotalk.com/index.php?showtopic=4396&hl=charming
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I play a Bard and charm kited my thru hundreds of AA's. This info will apply to Chanters as well.
First your alteration skill has nothing to do with the charm landing or going full duration.
Charisma has little to no effect on charm, it does however effect pacify/lull.
The absolute biggest factor on charm not being resisted and lasting longer is the mobs magic resist so yes Tash is a big help.
The other big factor is how many levels higher you are than the mob. If you are 1 level higher or 10 levels higher makes a big difference. I believe those golems are very close to your level so you might want to try Scarlet Desert(or any zone where you will be about 5 levels higher than the mobs) for some lower level mobs and it also a "hot spot" zone.
First your alteration skill has nothing to do with the charm landing or going full duration.
Charisma has little to no effect on charm, it does however effect pacify/lull.
The absolute biggest factor on charm not being resisted and lasting longer is the mobs magic resist so yes Tash is a big help.
The other big factor is how many levels higher you are than the mob. If you are 1 level higher or 10 levels higher makes a big difference. I believe those golems are very close to your level so you might want to try Scarlet Desert(or any zone where you will be about 5 levels higher than the mobs) for some lower level mobs and it also a "hot spot" zone.
First off the Magic Resist of the mob is very important. If a mob has high magic resist, your charm will break more often than if it has lower MR. How can you tell? Trial and error. If something stays charmed for an average of 20 seconds, DONT USE it.
Some zones are notorious for mobs with high MR, not sure if The Grey is one, but it may well be.
To this end it is advantageous to keep your charmed pet Tashed. Tash is a poisoned based debuff that lowers Magic Resistance.
You also want your Charisma as high as you can get. Charisma is a secondary check I believe to not only your charm, but mez as well.
Typical charm lineup for my chanter:
Allure
Root
(Theft of Thought for caster targets, other debuff, Stun)
Nuke
DoT
Slow (swap)
Mesmerize (yes the lowest level mez)
Tash (Highest you have)
I also swap in Rune in my Slow spot sometimes. You can also have your best Mez in there as well.
Grabbing a pet
The safest way is to:
1. Short mez
2. Tash
3. Charm
Use the short mez on your pet so he is up and running as soon as possible. If charm breaks, use short mez to control. Always re-tash before re-charming. You can buff your pet too. If I am keeping it for a while, I use AC, STR and Haste. I may even use Garou if it is a mob that will stay charmed. Last thing you want is a buffed up mob attacking you though so pick your pets wisely. You can always shrink your pet so you know which one is buffed.
Once you have the pet
In close quarters I like to mez the target and debuff/slow. KEEP TARGET ROOTED as much as possible. You do not want TWO mobs on you if charm breaks. Keep in mind your Nuke and DoT tend to break root. You can debuff/slow/root a target and not break mez (as long as there is no damage component).
Some Enchanters use Stun to contol multiple mobs when charm breaks. I have not quite got the hang of using that method.
I also am quick to swap in spells I need, like Rune, or other debuff (or GATE!).
After a while if your pet gets worn down you may decide to 'finish it off' (for full xp mind you).
If you go charming, EXPECT the charm to break and be ready for it. Also monitor your Pet's Tash. Tash will wear off before the charm does (assuming no break) and once it does, breaks happen faster. If you see 1 minute left on your pet's tash, set up for the re-charm (i. e. stop pulling!)
Lastly, if you are in a group, don't take any guff from players who think charming sux. Also tell them NOT to attack your pet if charm breaks, you can handle it. When the time comes to kill it, YOU will let them know.
Some zones are notorious for mobs with high MR, not sure if The Grey is one, but it may well be.
To this end it is advantageous to keep your charmed pet Tashed. Tash is a poisoned based debuff that lowers Magic Resistance.
You also want your Charisma as high as you can get. Charisma is a secondary check I believe to not only your charm, but mez as well.
Typical charm lineup for my chanter:
Allure
Root
(Theft of Thought for caster targets, other debuff, Stun)
Nuke
DoT
Slow (swap)
Mesmerize (yes the lowest level mez)
Tash (Highest you have)
I also swap in Rune in my Slow spot sometimes. You can also have your best Mez in there as well.
Grabbing a pet
The safest way is to:
1. Short mez
2. Tash
3. Charm
Use the short mez on your pet so he is up and running as soon as possible. If charm breaks, use short mez to control. Always re-tash before re-charming. You can buff your pet too. If I am keeping it for a while, I use AC, STR and Haste. I may even use Garou if it is a mob that will stay charmed. Last thing you want is a buffed up mob attacking you though so pick your pets wisely. You can always shrink your pet so you know which one is buffed.
Once you have the pet
In close quarters I like to mez the target and debuff/slow. KEEP TARGET ROOTED as much as possible. You do not want TWO mobs on you if charm breaks. Keep in mind your Nuke and DoT tend to break root. You can debuff/slow/root a target and not break mez (as long as there is no damage component).
Some Enchanters use Stun to contol multiple mobs when charm breaks. I have not quite got the hang of using that method.
I also am quick to swap in spells I need, like Rune, or other debuff (or GATE!).
After a while if your pet gets worn down you may decide to 'finish it off' (for full xp mind you).
If you go charming, EXPECT the charm to break and be ready for it. Also monitor your Pet's Tash. Tash will wear off before the charm does (assuming no break) and once it does, breaks happen faster. If you see 1 minute left on your pet's tash, set up for the re-charm (i. e. stop pulling!)
Lastly, if you are in a group, don't take any guff from players who think charming sux. Also tell them NOT to attack your pet if charm breaks, you can handle it. When the time comes to kill it, YOU will let them know.
Like was mentioned the mob's Magic Resist and mob's lvl vs yours are the two main factors.
I'm also going to add in a little bit in how charm works.
When you charm a mob it does a check every tick (6 sec). Checks MR, etc. If it passes the check the mob stays charmed, otherwise it breaks. You can charm the same mob and it can last 6 sec one time and 5 min another. It's really just the luck of the draw.
There is an charm aa that you can buy that helps the duration of charms. It has three lvls. This does not guarantee a long duration.
No aa: <check> <check> <check> <check> <check>
Lvl 1: <check> <check> <skip> <check> <check>
Lvl 2: <check> <skip> <check> <skip> <check>
Lvl 3: <check> <skip> <skip> <skip> <check>
So even with the charm aa it can still break at any time. This is part of the risk and fun with charming. Tash is your biggest help here because it lowers the mobs MR. Keep root/stun/mezzes up for when it breaks.
Edited, Thu Sep 29 12:56:33 2005 by MentalFrog[/i
[i]Edited, Thu Sep 29 12:58:36 2005 by MentalFrog
I'm also going to add in a little bit in how charm works.
When you charm a mob it does a check every tick (6 sec). Checks MR, etc. If it passes the check the mob stays charmed, otherwise it breaks. You can charm the same mob and it can last 6 sec one time and 5 min another. It's really just the luck of the draw.
There is an charm aa that you can buy that helps the duration of charms. It has three lvls. This does not guarantee a long duration.
No aa: <check> <check> <check> <check> <check>
Lvl 1: <check> <check> <skip> <check> <check>
Lvl 2: <check> <skip> <check> <skip> <check>
Lvl 3: <check> <skip> <skip> <skip> <check>
So even with the charm aa it can still break at any time. This is part of the risk and fun with charming. Tash is your biggest help here because it lowers the mobs MR. Keep root/stun/mezzes up for when it breaks.
Edited, Thu Sep 29 12:56:33 2005 by MentalFrog[/i
[i]Edited, Thu Sep 29 12:58:36 2005 by MentalFrog
Single best site for Chanter info is www.therunes.com
Mentalfrog Total Domination is the aaxp you are refering to. That is how they THOUGHT that TD worked, however it has been parsed to break on the allegdly skipped ticks and we got confirmation from Devs that isnt how it works.
Charm has a chance to break every tick. You should do EVERY thing you can to reduce that chance.
Multipule checks happen each tick if any check fails then the next one is checked. If they all fail then charm breaks.
1st and best chance is a check for the charm to stick based of your level vs mobs level if that fails...
2nd check is against the mobs magic Resist. DEFINATLY tash, heck have your friendly shammy/mage malo it you can. Hand the mob items that reduce have negitive Magic resist. If that fails...
3rd check is against your CHA. The higher the better. Note this has less chance of success than previous checks.
4th check is agianst Total Dominate. If you don't have you auto fail this check if that fails INC PO'd mob.
I was conviced charm was the fastest way I could kill myself for the 1st 52 levels I played a chanter. Then I did some reading and learned to charm in PoNightmare. Run 3 is faster than the mobs there, good place to learn.
BTW while on the topic of CHA... You can think of mezz workign the same way as charm except only 1 check not ever tick and there is not Total Domination aa for teh 4th check
1st check vs mobs level compared to yours (best chance to succeeed
2nd check vs mobs Magic Resist
3rd check vs your CHA
(Personally from some PVP playing around I did it kinda looked like your CHA compared to the targets CHA but I have no proof of that just my CHA was higher than the chanter I was deuling and I could mezz him easier than he could mezz me but now we are crossing into the relmn of hearsay that I would rather stay away from)
*edit add
http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4165&highlight=
Incase you are unaware Jewel runs www.therunes.com and has gotten to speak with the devs. Ryan being the Spell Guy for EQ1.
Some interesting reading on the subject. Read it all and mke your own conclusions
http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4509&start=0
Edited, Thu Sep 29 14:36:52 2005 by sbs
Mentalfrog Total Domination is the aaxp you are refering to. That is how they THOUGHT that TD worked, however it has been parsed to break on the allegdly skipped ticks and we got confirmation from Devs that isnt how it works.
Charm has a chance to break every tick. You should do EVERY thing you can to reduce that chance.
Multipule checks happen each tick if any check fails then the next one is checked. If they all fail then charm breaks.
1st and best chance is a check for the charm to stick based of your level vs mobs level if that fails...
2nd check is against the mobs magic Resist. DEFINATLY tash, heck have your friendly shammy/mage malo it you can. Hand the mob items that reduce have negitive Magic resist. If that fails...
3rd check is against your CHA. The higher the better. Note this has less chance of success than previous checks.
4th check is agianst Total Dominate. If you don't have you auto fail this check if that fails INC PO'd mob.
I was conviced charm was the fastest way I could kill myself for the 1st 52 levels I played a chanter. Then I did some reading and learned to charm in PoNightmare. Run 3 is faster than the mobs there, good place to learn.
BTW while on the topic of CHA... You can think of mezz workign the same way as charm except only 1 check not ever tick and there is not Total Domination aa for teh 4th check
1st check vs mobs level compared to yours (best chance to succeeed
2nd check vs mobs Magic Resist
3rd check vs your CHA
(Personally from some PVP playing around I did it kinda looked like your CHA compared to the targets CHA but I have no proof of that just my CHA was higher than the chanter I was deuling and I could mezz him easier than he could mezz me but now we are crossing into the relmn of hearsay that I would rather stay away from)
*edit add
http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4165&highlight=
Quote:
Juwel
..
Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 2664
Location: St. Louis MO
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:31 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I posted this question to the Devs'
Quote:
This is posted as factual in the guides on The Runes. Can anyone confirm that this is indeed how it works?
Charm does an initial check that consists of a level of caster vs level of mob modified by MR.
Charisma affects this by adding a modifier to the MR approx 10 percent of your total charisma.. so a 300 chr enchanter gets a bonus neg 30 check. After the initial charm land..theres a per tick check based off the server clock.. ie the clock checks every 6 seconds according to the server and say your charm lands on second 4 of that 6... the mob gets a chance to break again in 2 seconds.. that's how you get instant or early breaks that don't last a full tick."
Skills like Total Domination modify the charm break by changing the interval in which charm breaks are calculated:
Total Domination 1 has a check every second tick.
Total Domination 2 has a check every 3rd tick.
Total Domination 3 has a check every 4th tick
This was the response:
So, while the entire mystery of how exactly TD works wasn't explained. We at least know now a bit more.
..
Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 2664
Location: St. Louis MO
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:31 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I posted this question to the Devs'
Quote:
This is posted as factual in the guides on The Runes. Can anyone confirm that this is indeed how it works?
Charm does an initial check that consists of a level of caster vs level of mob modified by MR.
Charisma affects this by adding a modifier to the MR approx 10 percent of your total charisma.. so a 300 chr enchanter gets a bonus neg 30 check. After the initial charm land..theres a per tick check based off the server clock.. ie the clock checks every 6 seconds according to the server and say your charm lands on second 4 of that 6... the mob gets a chance to break again in 2 seconds.. that's how you get instant or early breaks that don't last a full tick."
Skills like Total Domination modify the charm break by changing the interval in which charm breaks are calculated:
Total Domination 1 has a check every second tick.
Total Domination 2 has a check every 3rd tick.
Total Domination 3 has a check every 4th tick
This was the response:
Quote:
The total domination check is a secondary check that's made after you fail the first one. It's complete independant of all other calculations. It has nothing to do with lengthening the time between checks.
-Ryan
-Ryan
So, while the entire mystery of how exactly TD works wasn't explained. We at least know now a bit more.
Incase you are unaware Jewel runs www.therunes.com and has gotten to speak with the devs. Ryan being the Spell Guy for EQ1.
Some interesting reading on the subject. Read it all and mke your own conclusions
http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4509&start=0
Edited, Thu Sep 29 14:36:52 2005 by sbs
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