Did I KS?Follow

Yesterday, I zone into Burning Woods, wanted to take out some of the giants in the fort.

There is a druid and a ranger, outside of the fort, not actively engaged with anything.

There are pops inside the fort.

I pull one.

I kill the one I pulled, go back in for number 2.

ooc: Hey, Giant Fort is camped.

My response: SoE does not recognize camps, neither do I.

Their response: You are KSing us!!!

My retort: No mobs that I am pulling are actively engaged, therefore, I am not KSing you. We aren't talking about a raid pop. There are plenty more giants to go around. It's not like I'm pulling the entire fort.(which, I have successfully done, solo.)

This goes back and forth, for the next few minutes.

After my third "Kill-Steal," I finally ooc, "Fine. I think it's way more rude of YOU to not be able to share when there are PLENTY of mobs in there, and there is NO WAY you can possibly take them all, but because you are moaning about it so much, I will move elsewhere.

For the next 20 minutes, I received tells, from pretty much their entire guild, including a cross-server, cross GAME tell, from EQ2.

I told each person who sent me a tell that: I was not KSing, and I have already moved to a different location, and this REALLY doesn't concern you, seeing that you aren't even in the same zone (or in one instance, even playing the same GAME.) I then put them, in turn, on ignore.

So, here is my stance:

In a "camp" where there are mobs NOT being actively engaged, anything that hasn't been attacked is fair game.

Another such "camp" this brings to mind is the Giant Fort in Frontier Mountains, and I will almost guarantee, that if this situation had occured there vs. Burning Woods, this wouldn't have even have been an issue.

So, did I KS?

Furthermore, what is MORE rude? KSing someone, or getting at least 30 tells, from members of a guild who weren't even present, for 20 minutes more, AFTER I had moved?

I am well aware that Druids have the rap of KSing a ton of people. To my knowledge, I have KSed maybe twice my entire career (mind you, both of these instances were during the first week I had been playing the game, and honestly, did not know better - I just kinda saw something and attacked it.) 3 people that I know in Real Life, when they had first started out, I told them of the dangers of KSing, and told them that I was completely against it, in any form.

I like to think that I'm one of the "good" druids, and frankly, I can think of thousand other things I could have done that, to me, would have been much more detrimental, and much more annoying than KSing, which I didn't do.

But if I did something wrong here, I want to know, so that I can avoid it in the future.

Thanks, everyone.

I think it's fair that if you can't handle the entire camp and somebody else wants to share it, that they should be allowed to. If I'm camping guys and I can only handle so many it's really just a battle of speed as to who can aggro them first when I'm done with my previous one.

You did nothing wrong, except maybe leaving the camp for them. If they were not actively engaging the mobs, then there's nothign for them to say or do. Whenever someone ******* to me about stealing a camp like this, I just kick it up a gear so there's nothing within half a zone left for them to kill.

They were hogs, pure and simple.

I once had someone yell at me in the west end of Highpass that the 'gnolls are camped'. I am sitting at zone in, they are 3 bends down.

If you were snagging re-pops before they could attack, that is one thing. If there are 6 or 8 mobs there for 3 people, they can share.

EQ is so big though. I would have left if I spotted them in the vicinity.

Like most, I don't think it was wrong in the technical sense but I would have moved along when I saw others sitting there.

Off topic but semi-related and not really deserving its own thread, last night I was on my bard farming the named vampires in Tenberous Mts (or however its spelled). As I'm kiting the first one around, a beastlord comes over and stands right smack in the middle of my circle. Then he starts sending me tells about how cool it is that I can solo them like that.

While he didn't really do anything wrong (in fact, he dropped some buffs on me), and I never get enough of hearing how swell I am, hovering around camps like that always makes me bristle. For one thing, now I have to worry about someone else getting plowed by my mobs. Yes, it'd be his fault but I still would prefer to avoid it anyway. Secondly, you never know the motives of whoever is idling around your camp. If you want to watch (not that watching a bard chant kite a single mob is prime-time entertainment) do so from a respectful distance.

Got another example from last night...

My enchanter is camped near the ghoul arch magus in Lower Guk. I pop in last night and I see what looks to be a rogue, hiding in the room. He is partially in in the wall so I cannot see if he is AFK or not. Magus is up, so I sent 2 tells asking if he is camped there. No answer. Third tell is to say 'last chance'. No answer.

I killed the mob (no robes:(), then camped again.

Like was mentioned KS-ing is only when you out damage a mob that was pulled/agroed by someone else.

Camps are more of a standard of play created by the players. The only problem you could have with pulling mobs from someone else's camp is if you pull the mobs through or to their group (training etc). It's more of an impolite thing to take mobs in their camp. However it's also impolite to claim a camp you can't fully handle. If they can only handle 3-5 mobs before repops and there are 10 mobs than it's easy to see that the camp can be shared.

I would just find a different spot, or ask to share. Some people will react nicely and others are rude about it. I don't see anything you did wrong here.

But you only play 'girl' toons...

We are just used to your stellar nature and come to take it for granted. Like the 10 billion Sarnaks you pulled last night...

Actual Kill Stealing is taking a mob that is already engaged by a force capable of killing it, out damaging them and taking "credit" (and by extention, the drops). Even this simple concept has the interesting gotcha of "first in force". It was pointed out to me (in this very forum) that even if I was kiting the mob around, or had it mezed and was holding it waiting for a group to arrive that if another group with adequate force to kill the mob appeared while my group was still "getting there", they have every right to kill the mob.

Is that rude, perhaps. Would some GMs take your side, maybe. Is it a violation of the letter of the rules, no.

So the camp thing is just politeness. If someone is already there, I will generally find someplace else. If someone sets up next to me and starts pulling the same pops I was clearing before.. I work extra hard to keep half the zone clear, as Debalic said so well. Where I was pulling singles, now I am kiting doubles and triples. If I was kiting them from spawn, now I am dropping high agro DoTs on them and running them past my new neighbors and kiting at "home".

Of course anyone that asks nicely is welcome to join.. you meet some interesting people this way.

If you came and setup next to me and pulled mobs outside what I was holding down, you would get buffs, any lore loots I could not use, and flirted with. That's a good neighbor.

Some people go out of their way to be confrontational as regards the "no camps" thing. It seems these people perceived you as such a person...

On occasion, when I have seen a really ridiculous camp call, I will say "Camping bats and rats.!" or whatever the local green garbage is.

But I don't get many laughs.

Hmph.

You did not Kill Steal but they may have considered you rude for not asking them what their intentions were. Everquest is a big place. If somone is camping an area, you go somewhere else. If you really want to kill NPCs somone else is planning on killing, you ask if they do not mind if you pull a few. You did not ask them what they were doing. Put yourself in this position:

You are level 50. You need to kill some giants for quest items. You get to Burning Woods, the zone is empty. You get to a giant fort and the zone is still empty. You have all your lv 50 spells loaded but they are overkill for this hunt so you sit, open your spell book, and look for lower level versions of your DoTs, DDs, etc. And oh, by the way, you are thirsty in real life so you go get a glass of water. You get to your PC and notice you are still the only one at the giant fort. You continue looking for your spells and finish up. (10 minutes have passed) Suddenly, a lv 70 Druid comes floating up, ignores you, and starts pulling Giants. The same giants you just spent 10 minutes preparing to kill. You think, "What is this guys problem? I was here first."

Frankly, the fact that you did not even consider this makes you selfish and foolish.

KS.....no, as stated above, KS'n is killing off an already engaged mob. Honoring or checking for camps before pulling, well no it doesnt sound like you did.
Don't take this the wrong way, but people do not honor camps like they did back in the day. There is nothing worse then finally getting your camp, only to be taken over....or half taken over by others without asking. I will always share a camp if I can't handle the whole thing....even in my groups as well as solo'n.
We always here " Sony doesnt recognize camps" ....and they may be true, but good camp ettique has dissappeared over the expansions. It seems you can always tell who has been playing awhile and who is fairly new....it shows in their actions.

I was KSed last week... ******* Evolutia guild on stromm.. They x-fered to stromm so they could be no1 guild without having to work for it then act all high and mighty.
Grouped with one of them and he said "AFK, MQ will heal you know".. 2 mins later tank wipe and he dont reply to tells for rezz or groupchat..
Then I go to PoFire..

/ooc CC?
Somone answer "c2". I do a /who and 7 people in zone so I guessed tables was open.
so I /ooc Claiming tables then
I run to tables and there is one Evolutia guy standing there afk. Now people afk there is quite common. I start killing stuff and after about 30-45 mins more evolotia people are starting to show up and I get a /tell Tables is camped.
I answer, I did a CC and no reply and when I got here there was one guy here afk and ALL mobs up, none dead.
After that everytime I got a mob snared and down to 75% HP their tank Blutoe taunts him and they burn mob and I dont get xp.
Then I decided to pull 2 mobs so when they taunt one and burn him I can burn the other and atleast get xp for one mob.
Mid pull I just think ********** it" its no use so I just port out of there leaving them 2 mobs, now they accuse me of training.
LOL, CoA geared people cant handle 2 mobs in pofire? Noone of them died.
But whatever, if it happens again my rogue brother gonna trian them the whole zone. Would that be any worse then KSing over and over?

I soooo hope this is not the average Evolutia player. I might have been unlucky and the 7 people from evo I have encountered are the only jackasses. But I doubt it, they have a bad rep..

Edited, Tue Sep 20 04:33:30 2005 by BumbiRagnar