Haste vs. statsFollow

I would go with haste item. All your other stats can be boosted with buffs and really aren't as important as some folks think. No "huge" difference in having 150 str as opposed to 180. Except maybe how much junk you can carry.

Haste=more attacks per combat=higher DPS=mobs die quicker

well, in my mind 50 more hps and 15 or so more AC doesn't equate to having 22% haste. I do understand that knights are on the bottom end of damage dealing, but hey every bit helps and the quicker the mob goes down the better for everyone.

But, not knowing your gear setup its difficult to say. If you have lower end gear maybe having a few more hps/ac makes it more beneficial to you.

hrmm, i thought tribute haste acted as "worn" haste not spell haste.

No, Tribute counts as worn/item haste - im sure


So sure I posted it twice

Edited, Wed Mar 9 09:08:43 2005 by egnaro

I have done more research and my apologies, I was previously misinformed. With this new knowledge I plan on also using tribute haste and getting rid of my haste item for a better item.

Anyone know what haste % each tier is worth?

Yes you have.


Use tributes for stats and HP.

Anyway

It depends how much of a loss to stats we are talking....but for the most part yes haste>stats.

I know conclusively, or I wouldn't of posted it .

I'm sure you were asking about an outside opinion or testing though. The only things I could find quicklike are a post at the Ranger's Glade and a post at EQDiva. I did see many other posts mentioning selling their haste gear and using tribute haste or wether to use swiftwind (worn haste) or tribute haste, but didn't feel like linking them all.

As I recall, they correspond roughly the same as you see haste items increase:

1 - 16%
2 - 21%
3 - ~25(?)%
4 - ~30(?)%
5 - 36%

Okay Fhrugy, the figures have been bugging me all day...

You are nearly spot on, just the tier two should read 26%

Thanks

This is assuming by tank he means pally or SK though (which is 2 of 3, so I guess that's a fair assumption). If he means warrior, FT means nada. It really does depend a LOT on your class. My bard ONLY uses FT5 for tribute. No others. Anything else would be a waste (at least with my current gear).

Let's be honest here though. A loss of 14 ATK when you're near 2k is NOT a big loss. Sure, your max hit might go down 3 or 4 points of damage with the loss of strength, but again, not that big of a deal.

Just think if you had all of that ATK though, but NO HASTE? Would that suck, or what? That's really the issue here. The OP was asking which would be more beneficial, and I'm of the personal opinion, it depends completely on what gear you have already and how you stand on stats/HP/mana. I personally would never go without some kind of worn haste either though, even if that meant I had to rely on tribute haste. It's really not a black and white type of question, and a lot of factors would go into making the decision.

I'm going to second what others have said. That 14 ATK is ~.7% of your total ATK value. Even assuming it was a straight linear progression (which it's not), that would *at worse* decrease your dps by .7%. You'd have to do some serious parsing to even notice that.

A haste item is a direct multiplier of damage. A 21% haste item increases your damage by 21%. Always. Against everything. You swing 21% more often, so damage is 21% greater. There is simply no comparison between the two. You're better off with a 1% haste item then that 14 ATK you lost.

Um. And as Czae pointed out, atk is not equal. There are two different types (just as there are two different types of AC). ATK gained from skill and most spells goes against the avoidance value of the mob, meaning that higher ATK from your offense skill (or a buff) will result in your hitting the mobs more often and will result in a direct increase in relative dps. ATK from str is essentially increasing your ATK versus mitigation, meaning you'll hit for more per hit. The problem is that the damage calculations are done in a "strange" way so as to nullify the effect of high strenght most of the time. Look up conversations about "modal" damage sometime and you'll see what I'm talking about. Essentially, you only get the advantage from extra str-ATK when you hit, and then only some of the time when you hit, and even then it's usually not going to significantly increase your average damage.


They also are not linear values. ATK and AC values are curved opposing values. When they are close to eachother, the curves are relatively linear and an increase in one will have a noticable effect on the result. When they are not close (you either have a very high ATK in relation to the mobs AC, or very low in relation to AC), the effect from adding or subtracing ATK is virtually nil.

So increases in ATK are mob dependant. If you are fighting a mob with an AC value that has a good cross value with your ATK, a small increase in ATK can be significant. Most of the time it's not going to be that huge though. Don't get me wrong, you're always going to be better off with more ATK (since that'll apply to more situations), but if you are waaaay above the curve, adding more produces some extreme diminishing returns. This is the exact same math that produces what are referred to as "soft caps" for AC values. Past a certain point, your AC value in relation to the mobs ATK is high enough that adding more doesn't do anything significant. It most certainly works the other way around.


Haste is *not* situational though. Regardless of what mobs you are fighting, haste will *always* increase your DPS by the value of the haste. Thus, you should sacrifice almost anything for increased haste. Certainly, it's the biggest factor for increasing your DPS. There's *some* argument for reducing haste to increase AC/HP if you are a tank (it's really iffy in my opinion, but the argument can be made at least), but absolutely no argument for any DPS class to sacrifice haste for *anything*.