Developers Answer Mage Questions

World of Warcraft developers have answered some players' questions regarding mages, and Vaneras has posted them in the class' official European forum. The questions are quite specific, ranging from why the molten armor spirit change is a nerf to so many players, to why frost is lackluster in PvE. The last question focused on the the fact that some fans feel their mage concerns are not being heard. Here's the team's response:

"Just understand that your concerns and our concerns are not always in perfect agreement. We like to get feedback from the community, but ultimately we don't sit down and say "How can we address all these problems that the community wants us to fix?" We have to do what we think is right for the game. Sometimes you are going to applaud those changes and sometimes you might not 'approve' of the change."

You can read the Q&A below. What do you think about the answers? Head on over to our Mage forum if you'd like to take part in more discussions surrounding the class.

The developers have answered a few Mage related questions. Some of you may have seen this already elsewhere, but in case you have not, you can find it below:

Q: Why is the molten armor spirit change a nerf to pvp, solo, and anyone not in full 25man epics / raid buffs?
A: Realistically, most mages are never going to notice a change to crit while soloing unless it was a really large number. Soloing is generally not difficult and you are generally going to defeat everything you fight within a few GCDs. For PvP it is a nerf to those mages using Molten Armor, but very few mages use Molten Armor in PvP. If we like what the Molten Armor change does, then we might consider doing something similar to other mage armors down the road.

Q: Why is spirit still significantly less valuable for us than warlocks? Why is it still better to use non spirit items except for in the few cases where the spirit item's ilevel was higher to begin with?
A: Apples to oranges. Agility is significantly less valuable to mages than it is to rogues. Yes, We realize you don't share gear with them, but if your concern is that warlocks will end up doing more damage as a result of that Spirit on their gear, we understand the concern and we think we have it under control.

Q: Why was scorch singled out as too powerful when it is obvious there are other raid buffs just as powerful?
A: For starters, because characters already had very high crit numbers in the first tier of content. We aren't really trying to make all buffs equal at this stage. Sunder, for example, is still a huge damage multiplier for classes that do physical damage. But buffs that feel like they do swing the pendulum too far are good things to discuss on these forums.

Q: Why do mages still have an archaic evocation tool that is risky and can virtually kill our dps like no other class has to deal with? Why can we be screwed over through rng because of this?
A: We understand the problem with Evocate in PvE. We aren't likely to turn it into Innervate, but we would like to come up with a solution that keeps you from getting boned when you happen to take a big blast of AE damage. We will also point out that there is a skill difference here too. Good mages know when the best time is to use Evocate (say KT just did a big blast so you know it isn't happening again). Less-skilled mages hit it the second they need it without paying attention to their surroundings.

Q: Why do improved scorch and winter's chill still have no personal benefit? Why is it still a dps loss and the cost of a major glyph to make use of scorch? What is the point now that warlocks will apply the debuff with their main nuke?
A: Selfish benefits are something we would like to add to all talents. For those we haven't done yet, it is usually because we would have to nerf the tree somewhere else to make up for the inflated damage. One of the questions we often ask ourselves is whether a class would already take that talent just because it's such a good talent for them. For example, if Battle Shout was a talent, almost every warrior would still take it even if they knew 100% that another player could provide the buff in a group. Why? Because it still grants them so much damage when solo, in BGs, etc.

Q: Why is frost still horribly lackluster in pve? Why is frostbolt still spammed and the ice lance glyph does nothing to fix this?
A: We can't make Ice Lance any better without making Frost even more dealy in PvP. We talked about making the glyph better, and we still might, but the problem is most PvE Frost mages take the glyphs of Frostbolt, Molten Armor and Water Elemental already, *and* inflating the glyph to something like 8x damage would make Frost mages the most insane leveling spec in the world.

Ideally, yes, we would love to get Frost into PvE and Fire into PvP in a bigger way. In the grand scheme of things though, mages have Arcane, Fire and Frostfire specs doing very competitive dps with each other in PvE and Frost and possibly Arcane as viable in PvP. That's definitely an improvement over where the class has been historically, so while it is something we want to work on, it doesn't feel like a crisis.

Q: Why has it been some five ptr builds with absolutely zero attention to our concerns? We aren't just complaining for the sake of it, and we're not all looking for massive damage buffs. Some of us would like to see our legitimate concerns at the very least commented upon.
A: Just understand that your concerns and our concerns are not always in perfect agreement. We like to get feedback from the community, but ultimately we don't sit down and say "How can we address all these problems that the community wants us to fix?" We have to do what we think is right for the game. Sometimes you are going to applaud those changes and sometimes you might not "approve" of the change.

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Cry More
# Mar 22 2009 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
you havent complained enough.

blizzard will never please everyone. once you get what you want, its going to raise flags in another class forum. learn to live with the fact that you aren't the only class, and you aren't the only one paying $15 a month. blizzard has a business to run, not a daycare at snack time.
non answers...
# Mar 20 2009 at 2:26 PM Rating: Decent
As stated above, the evasion of answering the questions that were given was frustrating to read. As I have stated before, I not interested in pvp; and I don't like it that pve concerns get set aside in favor of the concerns of the pvp crowd. While blizzard has by far a much better track record than sony does with everquest, that margin is in danger of slipping with answers such as these to the strong concerns that we the players have. It's been touted that wow is in the process of knocking everquest off the mountain bsed on the number of active accounts, but I don't quite see that happening just yet.
What was that again...?
# Mar 20 2009 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
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104 posts
Thanks Prometheus - good points. I have often thought that Blizz does not really understand what it wants WoW to be, and that the lack of a clear goal seems to be at the heart of Blizz 'pushing' players in one direction or another (Raid, PvP, PvE) rather than having a fairly equal/equivalent flow for all. Your comments hit it on the head - changing goals midway is a tough design challenge. :)

the thing that I truly hope someone will post/update was the final comment however.

"Just understand that your concerns and our concerns are not always in perfect agreement. We like to get feedback from the community, but ultimately we don't sit down and say "How can we address all these problems that the community wants us to fix?" We have to do what we think is right for the game. Sometimes you are going to applaud those changes and sometimes you might not "approve" of the change"

Um - at what point does "addressing the continued concerns of a paying customer base" conflict with the company's goals for the game? Last time I checked, the only place *that* kind of logic applied was when a company was attempting to cycle something out without taking the blame for it (you know... "fewer than 3% of all toons were mages, so we decided to drop the class in order to be able to add our new yippy-skippy invention" rather than "we are phasing this class out and those of you who have them will have to find a new way to amuse yourselves...") Since Blizz clearly does not seem to be trying to phase mages out - at what point do the concerns of players with mages somehow conflict with Blizzard's concern for the direction of the class? I am sure that was just an unfortunate choice of words. Hope to see it edited sometime soon!
Bull...
# Mar 20 2009 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
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20,024 posts
The annoying thing is that they, essentially, did not answer ANY of the questions. Basically, every response could be reduced to a "QQ," when a LOT of those concerns are extremely valid.

Not to mention the fact that they completely negate their arguments left and right. Why nerf Scorch? Because crit is too high. But you just gave Warlocks a better scorch on their main attack. Well, not all classes are meant to be equal.

Yeah, true. But that doesn't change the fact that they essentially stole a buff away from a class that is already getting very little love, and gave it to Warlocks who have had a lot of love for a long time.

And, while the point about evocation needing skill to use is true, the problem is that even skilled Mages often have trouble.

Furthermore, their responses to the spirit question were BULL. Blizz has been promising Mages a boost from Spirit for a LONG time. Now, they just say that they don't care about Mage spirit concerns because different classes have different needs?

And my BIGGEST annoyance here was their responses to the tree effectiveness. They just said they were fine with the fact that Mages essentially had a mandatory PvP tree, with a second one being a "possibility." This is after they have gone on and on for years about how they want each tree to be able to perform in each environment. It is like when Priests HAD to be Disc to be in Arenas. Sure, Holy isn't that much better yet, but Blizz hasn't said they just don't care to fix it.

Furthermore, the fact that talent changes could make leveling too fast is BULL. There are multiple tiers of an ability for a reason... Just give the capped tiers a much higher boost in effectiveness than earlier upgrades gave.

Why even have a Q&A session if you aren't going to answer a single question?
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A horse designed by committee...
# Mar 20 2009 at 10:33 AM Rating: Default
I agree with you Yngvie.


However, there IS a solution. WoW would STILL have the problems PvP & PvE each have separately with balance issues. (broken down as you did into each sub-part) The solution, while it would still not be "perfect" is to separate the PvP aspects of the game, from the PvE aspects as it applies to a classes' Skills/Talents. This would separate the concerns developers have for making other "facets" of the game unbalanced as you have stated.

An example of what I mean would be the game "Guild Wars" and the PvE v/s PvP differences they implemented so that the experiences would be exclusive to each "facet" of the game play. {You may not have enjoyed or liked Guild Wars, but you have to appreciate how they handled PvE v/s PvP from the standpoint that it never came close to making the other parts of the game unbalanced}

Blizzard decided to make a game that was initially a PvE MMO with shades of PvP thrown in, into a game they are trying VERY hard to get people into PvP on a larger and larger scale. {and even transform it into an E-sport} Blizzard has played the part of Pandora in this regard...and I am unsympathetic to them in regards to that. They can't expect that while they continue to place more emphasis on PvP, that it doesn't ultimately detract from the rest of the game itself.

Note: I am not saying that either PvE or PvP is 'bad' for WoW...it's just like Cake and Pie; you may REALLY like them both...a lot. You can have one or the other...and each is unique. Now imagine trying to eat a 'pie-cake'...or a 'cake-pie'...the result would be less than either cake or pie alone



Blizzard should ultimately just "Bite-the-bullet" and rethink how the two aspects of the game function, before WoW becomes the proverbial "Horse designed by a committee".
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Not bad...
# Mar 20 2009 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
I'm glad to finally see some responses. Now it will just take the problems to be addressed (evocation, please?!)
And therin lies the problem...
# Mar 20 2009 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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132 posts
Quote:
Q: Why is frost still horribly lackluster in pve? Why is frostbolt still spammed and the ice lance glyph does nothing to fix this?
A: We can't make Ice Lance any better without making Frost even more dealy in PvP.


And there is the reason this game will always have problems. As I've said before, there are several different facets to this game:

PvE, broken further down into solo, 5-man instance / heroic, 10/25 man raid

PvP, broken further down into individual duels, BG's and Arena

It is going to be impossible to balance each skill for each different facet of the game.

The only thing I can think of to balance it would be so time consuming that it is impossible - completely different talent trees for each facet. Your PvE Mage Ice tree would have a different structure than your PvP Arena tree, and the skills might have significantly different bonuses based on their usefulness in combat. This would open up classes to where a skill that is acceptably used in PvE doesn't get boned because it turns out to be a godly skill in Arena fights.

The amount of hours it would take to program and test, though, makes it impossible, as new content will always take precedence.
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