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Big ChangesOct 8th, 2002 at 10:06 PM by Illia

Well, they bit the bullet. A number of changes are coming to the high end game of everquest in the near future. Notably, these include:

Complete heal cap reduced from 10,000 HP to 7,500 HP
Mana Burn is being removed and replaced, players with the Ability will have their AA points refunded.
Monk defense is being lowered.
The rod of mystical transvergance (aka, the GodRod) is being removed and replaced with a single target charge with limited usefulness. Additionally, it's noted that a number of encounters will be shortened.

Read the complete article here. Personally, I see the need for these changes as Planes of Power comes on, and the game expands in levels and player power yet again. In the case of the ModRod change, I only hope that certain encounters are adjusted massively to account for the lack of infinite mana. Of course, feel free to discuss the changes here. See what 2 and 1/2 years of "This is a Monk Item" posts gets them?

Tags: EverQuest, News

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warrior chimes in

# Dec 06 2002 at 5:15 PM Rating: Decent

Soop

126 posts

Greetings all. I guess I have a few things to say about the nerfs, like every one else here.
Soop is my main, but as he got older and friends began leaving, I did not have the time for the longterm groups or raids to play him... it did not dawn on me to complain that my warrior could not solo blues. I took it as a fact of the class.

I created and lvled my alt druid up to 52 solo, where she is now, as a matter of fact... but missed the fun of melee so I made a monk. I have soloed my human monk to lvl 50 so far... and it is true that they can kill blues, even after this nerf. That is better than my warrior will do.

Monks are damage dealers, not takers. If your group or cleric is frowning on having to heal the monk... get a warrior. If you are a monk in a group without a tank, that is not a well balanced group, and you cannot complain that you are not a tank.

Yes, soop has around 2500hp and my monk has 1500hp. But in those 1500hp, my monk can deal much more damage than my warrior, enough to kill a low dk blue mob. Soop has fair gear, he simply does not have the 'juice' that powers my monk.

All the armor that my chrs have come from either stuff I have looted solo or from pp i got from farming a few items for sale. I have not been to the planes, except for one time to see what was there, and was not impressed with going as a non-guildmember.

I dont have much to say about manaburn, not playing a wizzard, but seems that 5 or 6 wizzys popping a mob that takes a couple of groups to kill reliably and split the loot with who needs is a bit out of balance. but, as i say... that is a very limited opinion.

The monk nerf, hurts the classes soloing ability only, for me. If i am grouped, hopefully the warrior or sk can keep aggro off me and I can do what i am supposed to do... damage. And I dont think monks will be looked over in groups... they are too massive of an addition, nerf or not. But dont count on them to or ask them to tank.... get a tank.

There will prob be several warriors around lfg, since they cannot solo the blues.

____________________________

Soop 53ish War
Brell (CT)

Pugette Tripsalott
67 Monk - Brell (CT)

Mangie Scumsuccer
65 Shaman - Brell (CT)

Poket
71 Mage - Brell (CT)

Deathlich
58 Necro - CT

#Anonymous, Posted: Nov 04 2002 at 2:17 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) CAN ANYONS SUGEST A NOW GAME THAT IS LILKE EQ IN THE WASY IT IS PLAYED BUT NOT RUN BY SONNY DONT THINK I CAN BE HAPPY HERE ANYMORE'

nerfs

# Oct 29 2002 at 1:59 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

a while up there someone wanted ideas on some nerfs, personally i like this idea of reaching out for ideas rather than triing the same stuff over and over (tweaking/weakening of classes or abilities).
i think that creating two more factions that are class specific might make a bit of difference. one would be for the monk, the other for the druid. those two both are suppoesed to be (story wise) outside of normal world politics. if the druids belonged to a druid grove that got angry at every kill of neutral unaligned animals, and happier at every kill against civilized groups. then have wandering npc druids that would attack people that they are angry at and aid those that they are happy with (ie healing, buffs), attacking you when they are angery with you. when playing a druid you would have to keep from angering the druids or else they might send someone to attack you, as they would see you as a corupted druid that would bring ruin on nature. for some ongoing events, verant could have the druids attack gaurdsmen and be more agressive when a large amount of animals have been killed, and more passive when a low amount of animals have been killed (ie the stronger nature is the more aid the druids will give to those in it, and vice versa). perhaps on pvp servers killing druid pcs would anger the druid grove and killing those that kill many animals would make them happy (never really played so this part is without experience behind it).
the other faction should be for the monk. the biggest problem i have heard and seen is twinked out monks considered the norm by verant and so verant is dealing the monks as if the are all uber monks, thus hurting all monks to balance the really tricked out monks. hell monks never were big on possessions (story wise) so i would make this faction dislike monks with lots of wealth (good gear as well). this faction would be like the druid faction in that it would have people under its "protection" and would also police itself (thus sending out monks to fight uber monks, a way of introducing a concept wealth/item capping). the people under there "protection would be the unarmed and poor npcs, thus characters leveling up by attacking the townfolk away from the gaurds would have more physical repercussions, and thus when encountering a wondering monk if he is unhappy with your actions he would attack you. when they are happy with you i guess you could request food and bandaging (historicly what monks in real life are famous for). think of the ongoing changes that would be seen by lower level players rather than the "what is that thing that keeps running down the road" or "why is there a gnome in crushbone?".
i haven't gotten around to registering my name is jamoecw

Monks Again

# Oct 21 2002 at 3:10 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

Hi, for starters, my first char/main is a 50 monk. I can still remember reading the instruction book that came with EQ, and I loved the Monk from then on. After playing awhile, as Im sure many people have, I sent tells out to higher level members of my same class asking, "what can i do to become a better monk?"

I got a great many different opinions on the subject, for the most part, this sums up what opinions I found

1. AC/HP

2. Str/Sta

3. Sta/HP

What I found was that most of the monks I talked to seemed to have set thier minds on aquiring the same type of items that seemed more appropriate to the warrior class. Str, Sta, AC, HP.

I am not in the buisness of trying to say whats right or wrong, but here is what I found. Having a monk as a main has kept me poor. After looking at the prices of the seemingly standard all/all monk gear, I couldnt imagine being able to afford it. I do love upgrading my characters equipment as im sure a great majority of other players do. After deciding that I would not worry about trying to amass the fortune (IMHO) to aquire the so-called monk items I figured I would do the next best thing, the same thing I find many Int and Wis casters doing, buff my prime stat Agility. I found a hard road ahead of me, I looked up many items trying to find what I could camp and what level I could camp it. Main focus being agility. I was very dissapointed to find that alot of the better agility gear, isnt wearable by monks, or has very high weight to it. At level 50, I had reached a personal goal of having a 200+ agility stat. I had also found that there wasnt much better I could get untill raid gear, or 58+. I have a very hard time soloing, but not to the point where I thought there was anything wrong with my char. I found over my career that my solo ability seems to come in spurts, mostly due to the mobs that I found to solo, for instance, 35-37 I solo'd, but at 38 - 43 I didnt find a mob which had the right weekness for a monk to solo, but then 45-47 I found mobs I could solo again. Works for me, some days ya feel like grouping, some you dont. And perhaps if I fully explored every zone I could have found solo'able mobs for the levels in which I didnt. Well, after hitting 50, I decided to try some of the more standard monk gear, such as giving up my 7dex/7agi rings for AC6 65HP rings. WOW! What a difference that made! I ended up finding that I still had pretty high Agi for a monk, 150ish, almost 900 AC, and about 1400 HP. The biggest thing I noticed wasnt that I could now tank, it was the fact that I couldnt really notice any difference in losing about 50agi points. It seemed that dodge's, misses, and such were not hurt. I have to admit that I was hoping to stumble upon something that everyone else just overlooked, I mean as a master of the body, doesnt it make sense that the more agile you are, the more likely you are gonna be able to get out of the way of someone swinging at you? As far as being the Main tank in a group... Sure, I have been. I remember that group of casters being glad I replaced that pet tank. But if im grouped with a ranger, or shadow knight, heck even good equiped rogue's, I tell em like this, I'll bring em, you tank em ! Ive never even wanted to be a tank. When I think of monks, I think of a class that wants to avoid getting hit, not take hits.

I do aggree with what has been done. I just cant wait for them to finish changing the monk style. After all... When that mobs swinging at you, and your pulling some jackie chan avoidance, now thats monk tanking ! And when I do get hit, man am I glad I grouped up with some good healers!

Just my humble opinion guys/gals

50 Monk on Torv with the Drunkenmonkeestyle

Mental Clarity 3.

# Oct 17 2002 at 11:37 AM Rating: Decent

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3 posts

What is this and will it affect me since I cannibalize to get mana, becuase Shamans med so dang slow, will I be able to do this spell still or will it be taken away. I am lost I wish they would leave us alone and let us just play

Nerfs

# Oct 14 2002 at 8:03 PM Rating: Good

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Anonymous

I have to say I see the Monk nerfs as being another slap in the face. They refer to Monks as "leather wearers" but they have no problem letting Druids (also originally described as "leather wearers") wear "Mail of Judgement" with 60 AC among other impressive stats.
I've had a Human Monk since before Kunark and I've seen a number of direct whacks on Monks. One of the first was increasing the weight of Large Sewing Kits by 7 and a half times (from 0.4 to 3.0) because some people couldn't keep their pointers off the combine buttons.
There have been other nerfs on Monks also. But, I've taken the hint. I'm keeping the Monk for the various trade skills I built him up on but I've got a Druid and Cleric well on their way to catching up to him. The mid-30's Druid can already solo stuff that the monk couldn't handle in the mid-40's and is rolling in cash. Now that Druids can wear Mail with 60AC I figure I'll be ready when they give them a spell called "Strength of Gods" and they become the main assists on raids.

Children of Order vs Children of Discord

# Oct 14 2002 at 5:30 PM Rating: Excellent

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Sage

950 posts

It seems to me that there are two sets of complaints here, one from the PvP servers, and another from the non-PvP severs. Game play is RADICALLY different for these two groups, and these changes affect them differently as well.

I would be curious to know which posts came from PvP players and which do not. I'd bet a disproportinalte number of posts are coming from PvP players.

I'm not PvP.

Why do you continue to plague the mage

# Oct 13 2002 at 7:26 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

You have really done it to high level active mages now. Innate regen, Mental Clarity, Quick Summoning, Mod Rods. Anything else you have for us Verant? I already have to use some banked AA on useless skills now that you have smacked us down at the 11th hour and I have to make sure I'm under 30. And the new skills...will they be available immediately, or will we have to get level 63, 64, 65, and will they cost the same amount of AA? I think not.

Save the point reimbursement. Just give us the new watered-down skills so we don't start PoP behind the 8ball and have to figure out all this AA again. Unless of course you really are just removing it, in which case the mage is right back to where he was; a marginally useful class plagued by nerfs, poor pathing, and weak spells...our ancient DD is a joke, it should at least be lure/line. Back to the CoH robot. Indifferent pets? Yah right. What other class is unable to use their epic when they pull, or when near AE mobs? Only pet hold makes it possible, even though the AE will still kill it. One day some GM will see mages being creative with pet hold and then THAT will undoubtedly get the axe.

You nerf our focus items, our CoH, our pets CONSTANTLY, our spells, and now our AA. What other class has this extent of ongoing nerfing?

PLAY A MAGE verant, get one of your GMs to put aside the wizard, play a mage for years all the way into high AA, and you will see. Not one GM or guide I've ever asked has said "yes I play a mage it has a stack of AA I always have and it's great." Gee I wonder why.

But there aren't enough of us to worry about I suppose. We'll either get over it and keeping handing over the money, or quit and you'll be done with it. Either way you win, and the player eats it. GAH I can't believe you would do all this in one shot 6 days before the patch!

RE: Why do you continue to plague the mage

# Oct 16 2002 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent

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3 posts

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with the defense of Verant regarding not forseeing disasters like this. For example...CoH clearing agro, which has been pushed and pulled constantly. Players weren't going to find out new, and obvious, uses for that? Then the release of luclin...and the mana saving neck pieces. Nobody figured out this would effect CH? And reagent saving...nobody figured out this would allow enchanters to do strange things? And now PoP...nobody foresaw that a mass AE mod spell would create any number of problems? What if a mage gets a few noobs killed by accident, completely innocently. Ban the mage for malicious use/exploitation? Or do mages have to make absolutely certain that nobody that doesn't want a mod rod is standing within 300 feet, or they have to target and cast on, say, 20 players individually? Has anybody figured out what this was do to availability of our spell slots (two mod rod spells now instead of one).

Players figured these out DAY ONE, not after months of experimentation. Anybody that plays the game more than way casually, "big view" or not, didn't see all this immediately. I did, and I'm betting I don't know as much about the "big view" as any GM. Though I'd put a paycheck on the fact I know more about playing a mage.

If not the GMs playing the character (and by the way we are paying customers we have every right to suggest organization and role changes, moreso if you own stock in Sony), then get control groups to gather play habits/data from. There can't possibly by anything like this (correctly and taken seriously) set up or these issues would never have made it past test.

RE: Why do you continue to plague the mage

# Oct 14 2002 at 4:58 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

sounds nasty,

i dont play a mage but i feel for u tho, tried campin one part of ur epic, the peggy cloak, an man it licks monkey gonads, having to beg a lvl 30 ranger hunting gnolls for help, woried bout some lvl 30 ish drood porting in an stealing it.

pet nerfs? if it makes you feel any better the epic air pet is nasty as is, and as a wiza id trade manaburn for it anyday, in fact it was just such an air pet that handed my wizard his *** the other day. i did get caught off guard, but had no chance to recover or escape--can u say permastun?

as far as gm's playing a certain char i think that would be a great idea. getting to lvl 60 in at least one class, then staying current in line with expansions would be an excellent job requirement. it's the only way to have them experience first hand frustration they may not believe exists otherwise.

currently gms are doppelgangers; they can turn into any race, and any class, anytime. this is a useful tool indeed, but i say make them earn it, ie get to lvl 60 in one class.

bottom line is, and this goes for all classes;

why give out an ability in the first place if you may just have to remove it later. i think it's much better to test it, release it later, or in a much weaker form. sure people may complain that it's too weak, but nobody will ever complain about an ability being increased. and having weak abilities increased instead will take get rid of that dismal permanece we all have come to associate with this game.

RE: Why do you continue to plague the mage

# Oct 14 2002 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent

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Sage

950 posts

Quote:

why give out an ability in the first place if you may just have to remove it later. i think it's much better to test it, release it later, or in a much weaker form. sure people may complain that it's too weak, but nobody will ever complain about an ability being increased. and having weak abilities increased instead will take get rid of that dismal permanece we all have come to associate with this game.

Because Verant can't know with 100% certainly how new abilities will affect the gameplay on the servers. In testing, they didn't have wizzys team up and steal dragon kills, for example, but it started happening pretty fast on the real servers. This is just the most dramatic example, and yeah, maybe they should have seen that coming, but there are pleanty of things that alter the game play in bad ways that they can't forsee.

Quote:

as far as gm's playing a certain char i think that would be a great idea. getting to lvl 60 in at least one class, then staying current in line with expansions would be an excellent job requirement. it's the only way to have them experience first hand frustration they may not believe exists otherwise.

currently gms are doppelgangers; they can turn into any race, and any class, anytime. this is a useful tool indeed, but i say make them earn it, ie get to lvl 60 in one class.

And I think the GMs should get to do whatever the hell they want. They have to be able to go into any city, so they have to be able to change race. They have to be able to change class to test out specific problems that a class is having with a part of the game. You don't know if they have a lvl 60 character, certainly they have to know a LOT about the game before becoming a GM, and if you think GM have too much power you should just be glad they can't change their level as easily as they change their race and class.

[rant]Come to think of it, you're not the one deciding their job requirements, and if you have not been a GM you are in no position to be suggesting hoops for them to jump though or nerfs for them. You sound just like a whiney kid who wants to get back at his parents for making him clean his room.[/rant]

Edited, Mon Oct 14 18:30:13 2002

RE: Why do you continue to plague the mage

# Oct 14 2002 at 11:34 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

first of all lets get one thing straight, it's us players that are jumpin though hoops.

secondly, of course verant knew that wizards would team up and burn dragons, not even they are that stupid. an easy to see sign of this was the huge success of ae groups notice ae spells havent been upgradeded very much. that 100% certainty bit doesnt even apply 1% here lol. are you trying to say a company with "3 years experience leading the massively multiplayer oneline game industry" didnt forsee this? or the recent fiasco with focus effect items? for 5 million a month revenue plus expansions an t-shirts an all that other crap, they should know better. in fact ill wager to say they DO know better, and use it to their advantage---not ours.

as far as nerfing gm's thats a idiculous thot, as theyare not player characters, an their level doenst matter as nobody on a pvp server can attack them anyway. the idea is not nerfin gm's but enhancing their knowledge base so they can better serve us in the future. we see a huge amount of misconception between the classes, there is always one class thinkin another is too powerful etc. this should not exist among gms.

and gms dont make ppl do anything, they are not even supposed to be in the game unless there is an event, or something is wrong... to the ppl who say gms are gods; they are not, we kill gods in this game.

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

# Oct 15 2002 at 12:23 PM Rating: Excellent

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Sage

950 posts

Well you're very brave to post anonymously while down rating my posts.

Quote:

first of all lets get one thing straight, it's us players that are jumpin though hoops.

Oh heaven forbid we should be expected to face challenges in a complex game. Maybe you should try checkers.

Quote:

secondly, of course verant knew that wizards would team up and burn dragons, not even they are that stupid.

Never overestimate anyone's ability to predict the behavior of selfish people in groups.

Quote:

the idea is not nerfin gm's but enhancing their knowledge base so they can better serve us in the future. we see a huge amount of misconception between the classes, there is always one class thinkin another is too powerful etc. this should not exist among gms.

Oh I see, so you think that the GMs don't understand you class, and that's why they are picking on you. Actually, I think it's more likely that the GMs have a better view of the WHOLE GAME and make changes that they think will improve the WHOLE GAME, whereas you are just worried about you character being as powerful as possible. Or are you actually saying that you have encountered a GM that couldn't help you with a problem specific to your class, due to ignorance of your class? No, you are just whining.

Quote:

and gms dont make ppl do anything, they are not even supposed to be in the game unless there is an event, or something is wrong... to the ppl who say gms are gods; they are not, we kill gods in this game.

GMs are in the game to help out when there's a bug, like the time the merchant I needed was at the bottom of the lake or something. GMs are doing a JOB, and that JOB is to help amuse us by making the game better.

And if EQ has any REAL gods, they ARE the GMs. Who else can turn the world off when something goes REALLY wrong?

Edited, Tue Oct 15 13:06:40 2002

RE: Would you like some cheese with that whine?

# Oct 16 2002 at 8:36 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

dargadin,

i have a couple of things to say to you...

1 i never rated your's or anyone else's post on this board, not once, and never will. i think its cheesey, and if i have something to say about your post i'll come out and say it. brain good, filter bad, when machines start thinkin for us we will become vegetables, ever see the matrix?

2 this leads me to my next point. what difference does it make if someone posts anonymously? i have not gotten around to signing up, and possibly never will. i think any board that does not allow full freedom of speech is not worth the time posting on. in the long run anon posting will allow for more candid statements, sure there will be a lot of trolls, flames, etc, you cant escape them. so you might as well allow anon posting to allow some to speak freely who would otherwise not be able to. you can always ignore an idiot, but will never recover if you dont hear something intelligent.

as far as jumping through hoops; one mans mantra is another mans monotony. i wont argue on what is redundant but im sure evryone has felt this at least once about something in this game. complex challenge gud, monotony bad. --at least checkers is balanced and doesnt get nerfed all the time. and checkers is not run by fatcat executives; the white checker never said "i know let's sell tons of expansions by handng out fabulous abilities". to which the black checker never replied "aye, we can just take them back later". the grey checker, who normally does not exist adds "this will make them so addicted they will play for ages just to get back a taste of what they had"

this was the point i was makin about gm's being required to get at least lvl 60 in a character. this would create a large knowledge base that any gm could draw on if sommething required specialized info. many players do not even know gm's can change form, and this causes them to think they are biased, esp on pvp servers. i have a slightly different opinion, and think their abilities do not let them see the game from a players perspective. evry one of them should know what it is like to lvl a character from 50 to 60, or how much more dangerous a pvp server becomes once you reach lvl 52 (excludin sullon as that is the penal colony of eq). and who said anything about gm's picking on me?

and yes, there have been several instances where a gm didnt know something about a specific class, and had to find out. this is not a bad thing, in fact it should be developed. look at it as a sort of specialization. all gm's will have a very similar set of traing, but its risky to not have a diversified knowledge base. the only downside i can see is the poor gm who has to play a gnome sk

btw gm's are not there for "big picture" thinking, thats what our game designers are for, unfortunately their mind's eye has myopia.

when manaburn first came out, do you think there were any posts on graffe.com that said, hey do you think we can combine forces an nuke a tough mob? this would have been grossly obvious. with the exception of gnomes, wizards are a very intelligent class, and such a thing would have been too obvious to state. the only thing being posted would be results an such. this is one of the reasons many wizards are not happy with the nerf, they saw this tactic as a feature of the luclin expansion, not an exploit. and verant actually refunding or giving back something? sure the admission of guilt is there, but im not buyin the "i didnt know the gun was loaded" defence.

as far as estimating ppl's greed, well there has been 3 years of precedent to measure this. every server has at least one greedy uberguild bent on securing not only the most loot, but zone contoll and power in the game. many of the ppl in these guilds are actually pretty nice and worked hard to get there.

but many of them are not. and why should they be nice? maybe they dont like you, why should they like you? they pay their monthly just the same as evryone else. if they choose to roleplay as a greedy, unfair, etc, etc, character that's up to them.

how is a group of wizards different form one of these guilds when they act selfishly, sellin mq's of items instead of letting players loot it free for example? or guilds killing all four warders once all of their members have got the loot they wanted, just so nobody else can get it?

if greed is your only complaint an think ppl should be nice as a rule, u need a special, pink server made for you. it be only you, with a staff of 20 special gm's, making sure nobody steals your lewz, and turning the world off if a big bad monster makes you cry.

Get a freaking life

# Oct 24 2002 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent

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Sage

950 posts

1) Whatever, no way to verify it one way or the other.

2) Posting Anonomously protects your from any accountability whatsoever for the things you say. In your case, this is a major benefit.

You seem to think that the GMs do not have a knowledge base, and therefor should be required to attail lvl 60. Excuse me, but I think that Verant DOES provide their representatives with sufficent information. However, I am sure they are THRILLED to hear your suggestions and are running out RIGHT NOW to implement every stupid idea you have.

As for the rest, whatever. You're just upset because the game got changed in ways you don't agree with. Life's like that too. Get over it.

RE: Would you like some cheese with that whine?

# Oct 15 2002 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent

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2 posts

I have to agree that Verant should have forseen what would happen with Manaburn. When I first read the AA descriptions when they came out, I read Manaburn and my mind said 'wizard hit squads' immediately. How could you not see 6 wizzies going "3..2..1..FIRE!" and obliterating some poor mob with only 24K or 32K hit points? Let alone one (or more of them) getting a critical blast as well.
It would have been better to introduce this ability in a weaker version. As said above, nobody is going to complain when their abilities are tweaked upwards.

Manaburn

# Oct 15 2002 at 3:43 PM Rating: Excellent

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Sage

950 posts

I'll grant you that Manaburn is a pretty obvious "potential for abuse" ability, though I am sure they intended for it to be a panic button, save-your-bacon trick instead of a "Let's toast this Dragon in 0.2 seconds" trick. The changes make it much more of the previous.

However, most of the abilities in the game are more subtle, and as such their application is more difficult to predict.

My main point is that Mr. Anonymous needs to get over thinking the GMs are ignorant, spoiled, and picking on him because he is a Monk.

when was the last druid nerf

# Oct 12 2002 at 7:12 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

I have never seen or heard of even one nerf to any druid, an i think it is about time they tasted what it is like.

firstly they have the most abilities of any class. they can port, track, sow, dot, heal, regen, invis, wolf form for no aggro, attack slow spells, the best resist buffs out there, get a whole set of armor for mana free casts. snare always seems to land on any char with less than 150 mr, and i have never heard or their dot being resisted. they also meelee the best out of all caster clases.

even their damage output is up there. wd can drop a wizard faster than that wizard can drop the druid with lures, draughts. against meelee with low mr, the game is so imbalanced its disgusting. the meelee gets snared, while the druid is sowed, how are they suopposed to fite? then the druid can cast at will, an if he even does get hurt, he can just heal himself while the meelee tries to reach him. pvp should not be as easy as taking out a mob. and dont tell me to play a druid, i dont want to cuz they are ghey.

so what nerfs would ppl suggest for the class that has evrything?

RE: when was the last druid nerf

# Oct 13 2002 at 9:57 PM Rating: Decent

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One thing I don't see anyone taking into account is that Verant supports the group game. There are only a few PvP servers compared to the number of non-PvP. I have a 54 druid and a 58 enchanter. My enchanter can get groups easily if there aren't a lot in the zone. My druid finds it nigh on impossible unless there's people I know. Druids are mediocre at best. Rangers can deal more damage and snare. Wizards at that level can deal much more damage, snare, and evac. Clerics easily out heal. Shamans out weigh on buffs and can heal for the same amount. Druids are space fillers and usually the only way they get a group is if no other class is available. I tend to solo when I play my druid and quading at that level doesn't bring near the experience that grouping does and that is what the game is pushed toward; grouping. At least they gave the druid something with the 75% heal at 58. Personally I think Necro's need some work.

RE: when was the last druid nerf

# Oct 12 2002 at 10:55 PM Rating: Excellent

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Quote:

An anonymous poster wrote:I have never seen or heard of even one nerf to any druid, an i think it is about time they tasted what it is like.

I guess you don't remember the infamous DoT nerf of a couple of years ago where they lowered DoT damage for chasing MoBs to 66% (I believe they very recently raised that damage cap back up). Granted, that hit Necros also, and Shamans for that matter, but it hit druids the hardest, since kiting was one of their primary soloing tactics. That nerf really hit the class close to home.

Quote:

An anonymous poster wrote:
firstly they have the most abilities of any class. they can port, track, sow, dot, heal, regen, invis, wolf form for no aggro, attack slow spells, the best resist buffs out there, get a whole set of armor for mana free casts.

Yep, they are a very versatile class at lower levels in most cases.

Quote:

An anonymous poster wrote:
snare always seems to land on any char with less than 150 mr, and i have never heard or their dot being resisted. they also meelee the best out of all caster clases.

Both of these statements are grossly inaccurate. Snare is frequently resisted, as are the fire DoT line (flame lick, immolate, etc.). When my druid (and my ranger, for that matter) first got Immolate, they were rarely used. It was almost impossible to get them to land. Add to that the immense agro that both a DoT and snare place on a MoB, and a resisted snare can easily be a death sentence for a druid, especially for MoBs that travel at SoW or better speed. Leather armor might as well be Jello when you're getting beat upon by a Hill Giant. In a PvP situation, this may be slightly different, I'll admit.

As far as melee goes, you may be correct. They may be one of the best melee classes amongst the pure casters, but that's akin to saying that between bards and druids, druids are the better trackers. They both suck at it.

Quote:

An anonymous poster wrote:
even their damage output is up there. wd can drop a wizard faster than that wizard can drop the druid with lures, draughts. against meelee with low mr, the game is so imbalanced its disgusting.

I've seen warriors own druids of the same level (at all levels that I can recall witnessing a PvP battle). Warriors are incredibly difficult to land a spell on. I've also seen it go the other way. It's all how skillfully one plays the class, and a certain amount of luck.

Quote:

An anonymous poster wrote:
the meelee gets snared, while the druid is sowed, how are they suopposed to fite? then the druid can cast at will, an if he even does get hurt, he can just heal himself while the meelee tries to reach him. pvp should not be as easy as taking out a mob.

PvP is entirely different than fighting an NPC. NPCs are much less intelligent. A character played well can often overcome the class weaknesses and prevail. That said, I will admit that in most cases a caster will beat a melee in a no holds barred fight. It's just how the game works. My advice would be to make some caster friends ;-)

Quote:

An anonymous poster wrote:
and dont tell me to play a druid, i dont want to cuz they are ghey.

I would never tell anyone to play any class that they didn't wish to play. They most likely would be awful at it. However, neither would I make disparaging comments about a class that I really knew very little about.

Quote:

An anonymous poster wrote:
so what nerfs would ppl suggest for the class that has evrything?

None. I've played a druid nearly to level 40 (my main is a ranger), and they're fun to play up to that level as they are. I don't play it very often, but it's fun to play once in a while. However, as they top level 50, from what others have told me who have played them this far, they tend to lose their shine. They become a secondary class, doing many things, but none of them extremely well. Wizards, with the exception of the Cazic Thule pyramid, are suppior porters. Rangers are the better snare class due to their ability to take a few hits if they pull agro, Necros, Enchanters and Shamans are more desirable as DoTers, debuffers, and buffers...the list goes on. I'm hoping that the new druid heals will help give the class a bit more color at higher levels. We'll see.

It seems that you're basing every one of your arguments on a druid's ability to beat most melees in most situations in a PvP environment. I'll be the first to admit that EQ is really not well designed as a PvP game. The mechanics are all wrong. However, are you really proposing reducing a class' power under any circumstances just so you can beat up on a druid? I would wager that most players, even on the PvP servers, play a majority of their time as PvE (else they'd have a difficult time getting out of level 1). Nerfing the druid class would hobble this aspect of their game, and perhaps ruin the class.

Edited, Sat Oct 12 23:45:10 2002

RE: when was the last druid nerf

# Oct 12 2002 at 11:41 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

im not really sure what nerfs druids need, but they definately need some to balance pvp. this is because i dont play a druid.

the 66% nerf was not adruid nerf per se, and it was easily avoided by rooting the mob.

here is the situation as it stands. druids can port, and they have sow, and scale of wolf. very versatile travel characters. add tracking to this, and you have a bunch of predatory druids continually patrolling pvp areas where they expect to find easy victims, ie players several lvls below them, engaging in that pve you were talking about.

at lower lvls a meele has no chance here, their mr cannot protect them against snare, and they cannot escape either. snare also lasts for several minutes, which is far too long for pvp. they end up being tracked down and kited like any other mob, unless they are heavily twinked they will not win, ever.

at higher lvls winged death is overpowered against any other caster that cant heal itself. this is also an imbalance. the 66% pvp spell nerf does little to mitigate this, since casters do not have 66% the hp of mobs wd would be used on. a spell meant for warriors and mobs should not do full damage to a caster.

as far as balance goes i think the only class that should track at all are rangers, why should a bard be able to? druids are priests also, not trackers

things need to be made fair again, even if that means nerfing druids, as a meelee should not have to be twinked with full bd gear to have a chance at beating a druid, or any other caster for hat matter.

i gues to start get rid of tracking players at least, or come up with some way a player can avoid ebing tracked by a weak tracker in the first place.

the second is snare should not work against players, meelee especially, because their fighting range is too small anyway. it should still work on classes that cast movement reducing effects, bards, sk's, wiza, mage, necro..

if all you can come up with as a druid nerf is an across the board nerf a couple of years ago, you are in need of some big nerfs, talk to necro an see how many times they have been nerfed, or wizards. high time for druids to take it up the brown as well

RE: when was the last druid nerf

# Oct 14 2002 at 9:53 PM Rating: Default

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mages dont have speed reducing spells, unless you count that earth elemental root attack. which will hardly save you from a druid snaring you and your pet or a necro darknessing you.

RE: when was the last druid nerf

# Oct 13 2002 at 1:22 AM Rating: Good

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I can't argue with any of these points from a PvP perspective. As I stated, PvP in EQ is abysmal. My only point is that nerfing a class across the board simply to balance PvP is, I think, a bad idea, as that may unbalance the class from a PvE perspective. Perhaps tweaking the PvP is a good idea (we know they can do this...they've already done it).

Also, your points about Necros being nerf-magents is well taken. They were a bit overpowered to begin with and as such needed to be toned down a bit. They really need some work though to make them more interesting to play in the higher level game.

Thanks for your response. Good points all.

HP already low

# Oct 12 2002 at 12:55 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

I am a very poor monk for my level (51) and still using most of my wu's gear from the nice man who made it for me. this is bs. Ill have even LESS comparable ac to others. And already, I don't think anyone has mentioned this; but monks already only get FOUR yes only FOUR hp per stamina point. I have like 1622 hp with no buffs while the 'tanks' have upwards of 2300-2500 at my level range.

Dont give me the 'you are 51, you should at least have semi-decent gear' Nah, I always get the blunt end. people presume I dont want to be included in the money split or something.
I see level 15s-20s with better gear.

Regarding Refund of AA Points

# Oct 12 2002 at 8:27 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

If I am reading it right, you are removing the only AA points that really make a diifference to my shammy

RE: Regarding Refund of AA Points

# Oct 14 2002 at 5:08 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

You have over 30 unspent AA points? How is that making a difference to your shammy?

why punish all monks?

# Oct 12 2002 at 3:54 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

when i hear someone argue for the monk nerf they give examples of twinked-out monks and high end monks in uber guilds.

when i hear someone argue against the monk nerf they are just average monks, arguing from their own experience.

so there's the problem. monks are the most effective class to twink i think, and have the biggest differences between characters with uber gear and the average character. verant needs to come up with a solution which fixes the problem with the 1% uber gear monks, and doesnt punish the 99% of monks who ALREADY can't tank to save themselves.

#Anonymous, Posted: Oct 11 2002 at 9:50 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) sorry to say, but

RE: re whining about manaburb groups

# Oct 14 2002 at 5:22 PM Rating: Excellent

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Sage

950 posts

Oh no, of course we don't expect there to be any kind of ethics or etiquette in EQ. How naive of us!
EQ is apparently just one big street fight and I'm a seagull and didn't even know it. I thought I was more of a human being, hoping to get my guild to work together with each other and build a good reputation with others by being generous, helpful and polite.

I guess I need to change my class to Boy Scout.

You, however, must be a seagull.

Edited, Mon Oct 14 18:05:16 2002

Me Iksar monk no play anymore

# Oct 11 2002 at 8:55 PM Rating: Decent

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This is totally idiotic, I can not tank as a 51 monk no uber gear. I can burn thru a clerics mana in no time trying to keep my a$$ alive. I have low HP, hell mobs seem to hit me more than the hit on the warriors but we supposed to be better they say, i have less than 900 AC and god forbid we speak about my HP. Items that will increase a monks stats to any good lvl are so expensive you need a necro are some outher good forbidden caster to be your main to raise the money. Verant is making a veryu big mistake, Obviously like some folks say they have there favorite chars cause monks are getting the shaft.

PS: and is CHEAL max is 10000HP I would like to see the equiptment that will put me at that mark, than call me uber

RE: Me Iksar monk no play anymore

# Oct 11 2002 at 11:01 PM Rating: Default

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It's not hard, as an Iksar Monk to get 900+ AC. As the defense skills stand at the moment (haven't played since they announced the nerfs) I have 991AC at level 51. (Iksar Monk) I also carry 1550hp. So, I can barely solo blues in Echo Caverns (those skelly slaves hurt!).
Although I do understand the changes, since I can take the Taskmaster down to 10% health with NO HASTE and using a Goranga Spiked Club in Primary and my fist as secondary before I have to feign... All I have to do is bring a Druid for 1 Greater Heal, or a 30+ melee class to give me that extra 10% damage, and I can tank the bugger with my Stonestance Disc and get hit maybe 2 or 3 times while it's in effect. While I can accomplish this, I still don't agree with them.
In their own message to the users, they contradict themselves.

Quote:

Over time, Monks' defensive abilities had been tuned up to correct a perceived weakness. This, taken in combination with a few years of universally equippable, low-weight, high powered items entering the game, slowly transformed Monks into what is arguably the strongest defensive class in the game. Monks get hit less than any other class, and due to the tuning over time, no longer take appreciably more damage when they do get hit(...)This imbalance between the classes does need to be addressed in order for the Plate-wearing classes in the game to have their proper relative power(...)Again, we have no desire to make monks unable to take any type of punishment -- far from it. What we are primarily striving for is maintaining the defensive order of the Plate classes being able to take the most punishment, followed by the Chain classes and Monks. The latter being technically a Leather wearing class who will continue to make up the difference by being able to avoid more blows than the rest.

Ok, read that and tell me that it makes NO sense what-so-ever.

Quote:

Over time, Monks' defensive abilities had been tuned up to correct a perceived weakness(...)Monks get hit less than any other class, and due to the tuning over time, no longer take appreciably more damage when they do get hit

ok, and then...

Quote:

What we are primarily striving for is maintaining the defensive order of the Plate classes being able to take the most punishment, followed by the Chain classes and Monks. The latter being technically a Leather wearing class who will continue to make up the difference by being able to avoid more blows than the rest.

An EQ Rep says,"Hand me some more of those brownies man. I'm on a ROLL!"

RE: Me Iksar monk no play anymore

# Oct 14 2002 at 5:15 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

What's the problem? "Monks get hit less", while Plate classes can "take the most Punishment"...

Monks dodge; Warriors get hit, but have more AC and hit points to absorb damage with.

What's the problem here? Verant felt that the Monks were taking too little damage when they DID get hit.

Mod Rods

# Oct 11 2002 at 5:43 PM Rating: Good

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Anonymous

I've been playing a mage since they cracked open one of the first servers, hard...three and a half years. I have no other high level alts at all. Pile of AA, the whole bit. I have been in and out of some of the uber guild thing too. I'm not annoyed with the fact that verant is making a drastic change. What annoys me is the poor decisons and understanding of what a "working" mage, as it were, goes through in the game. Perfect example; they say "mages respected as damage dealers with combo of pet and DD...". Hmm...how many raids and complex zones (sirens grotto is example of complex layout) can a mage use a pet in, even epic, if he doesn't have /pet hold? VERY FEW TO NONE. So this rationale on part of verant, while on paper makes sense, makes no sense in the game. Verant, however, has always acted like this isn't a real issue for mages.

CoH clears ago. Now it doesn't Now it does. Now it does, but from an unknown distance. Now it works in this zone. Now it doesn't. Come on.

You want to give mages value without continuing to nerf primary abilities or just inflating the wrong ones, then give us something useful that is inline with things we're supposed to be good at...when were mages supposed to be the best at mana regen?. Examples:

1. Make Elemental Armor line of buffs have a group version. Clerics got the MR, shammy/necro PR DR, give us the FR CR. It's what we're about. At least make it castable on others (and not overwritten by any and every thing).

2. Give us something good for when we can't use pets, which is in many, many places. Our air pets get a short stun...why can't we, at least when we spend the AA to get elemental form? Maybe not stun but you see what I mean. If a mage can't use a pet, and now no more rods, it makes no sense to assume a guild will look for mages over a wizzy for damage (or even as an acceptable sub)...which is what verant's thin excuse to mages is all about. Don't believe about the damage? Join the AE channel on any server and say "59 mage lfg". Yeah right.

3. Without a pet, a mage is defenseless. When your pet goes down and you're not set up to chain (even if you are a lot), you can't root, can't take punishment, etc...gate rapidly becomes your only option. Give us a self-symbol related to the earth element (skin of stone, etc.), or something for when you can't use a pet at all (common). For instance, you have to be far more careful than a wizzy when nuking since you have no way to escape if you draw the agro and can't use a pet (again common)...a crit with SoFB is perfect example (a crit with lvl 3 Fury is well over 2k). Give us a way to deal with this situation instead of just having the group say "well then way back off your nukes", and then just find a wizzy that can snare or use spells/epic to protect themselves.

4. For gawds sake give us more elemental based spells. Why why why doesn't the mage have a cold based spell or protection shield? Ice Spear, Grasp of Earth, something.

5. You want us respected as damage dealers? Let us do damage. Always. Give us something from Lure/line.

Any of these ideas has to be better than suddenly making mages the top mana dealers (a clear mistake which I always knew they were bound to undo just as suddenly), and if Verant had people playing mages hard they would know this. Such changes would make the class more desirable, both for groups and for soloing, with or without pet, would not infringe on wizzy big DD, etc. Before mod rods, I was one of very, very few high level mages on my server. Nobody bothered to get much past 55 (CoH). With the cleric/mod rod combo, mages had an in, and could cement it further by just being good all around players. I actually don't summon a lot of mod rods on a lot of raids; I've just gotten good at knowing when to summon them. But again, this isn't about mod rods, it's about understanding classes and doing something for them that is in line with their nature. Mages are the summoning AND elemental masters. Try working with that.

monk run speed

# Oct 11 2002 at 5:37 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

hey responding to the guy saying monks should run faster than plate wearing classes, truth is, they do. higher agi= faster running this is a proven fact and most monks have more agility than an ogre warrior. 2nd the less weight you have even helps how fast you run. try running with 15lbs. then going to 5 lbs. from encumbered you will be much slower so truthfully big warriors with heavy armor are slower

RE: monk run speed

# Nov 12 2002 at 11:06 PM Rating: Decent

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Lol... Proven fact, huh? No, you are wrong, sorry. Being encumbered will slow your movement rate. Not being encumbered simply means you have no penalty to movement, there is no scaling beyond that. If you are not encumbered, you simply move at the normal rate, regardless of whether you are 1 under your weight limit or 100.

Agility does not effect run speed. Run speed is identical for all characters, unless it is augmented by spells (SoW, Jboots) or the Run Speed AAXP ability.

A clear illustration of this is the /follow command. Two characters, unbuffed and with no Run AAXP, will have no trouble keeping sync while using the /follow command. The lead character will never out-run the follower. They have the same run speed, regardless of AGI or weight of equipment (provided neither is encumbered). However, if you give the lead character SoW or he has Run3, he will gradually out-distance the follower and leave him behind unless he periodically stops and lets him catch up.

Please, try and actually PROVE your facts, don't just post a bunch of garbage you heard from some clown and then call it the gospel.

Talibkweli, 61 MNK (who has never found himself mysteriously outrunning everyone because he walks around at 15 weight and has high AGI).

#Anonymous, Posted: Oct 11 2002 at 5:17 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) When I read about the nerfs, I thought about quitting the game. When I read all of your posts on the subject, I thought about avoiding contact with people period. This thread is a stunning reminder of how incredibly stupid most people are.

to think before you speak

# Oct 11 2002 at 4:25 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

umm your just uninformed non twink non lvl 60 monks cant do all these things and cant always get a hold of them....and easy to lvl LOLOLOLOLOL
my post is right below as well lvl 56 iksar monk it takes me forever to lvl they said they took race xp peanltys out of the game i know this is bull both me and human monk in same group both lvl 56 he got alot more xp than me i got 1/4 a bub in the time it took him to get 1 full so easy to lvl a monk sure if you a twink and a human monk i wasnot a twink my bard is the twink and i had to camp/quest his gear cause i could not afford to twink should have done it other way around and twinked the monk so i wouldent have as much problems with the nerf

monk nerfs

# Oct 11 2002 at 4:16 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

ok lol i have lots to say bout this but going to try and keep it short.... im a lvl 56 lizzy monk with just over 1k ac and bout 1900hp and i can NOT tank i set up my char as a damage machine due to lack of funds and bad luck on rolls so i do have therse uber all all items i still get hit in the 100s alot so that mean 19 hit no heal if i dont FD im dead, i think the should increase tanks skill as aposed to lowering mine if they ***** it up to much i wont be able to pull lol hell i die enough trying that any way... and they have takin my dmg abilty away over time other tanks rogues and rangers can out dmg me alot of the time due to the avalibilty of better wepons now. so this nerf could make me usless i could rambel on for a while my question is why they dont nerf classes like druids necros and bards....
before the bards ***** about that on i have a lvl 52 vah bard and can solo quite easy and if im undistracted i can even swarm kite lol ***** about quad kitters hehe a lvl 50+ bard can kill 10 mobs in a single kite if he has open area to run takes bout 15-20 mins to do but as long as they not casters its easy and huge xp

Think before you speak

# Oct 11 2002 at 3:57 PM Rating: Good

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Fixing the broken classes? Good point...but for once that doesn't mean buffing warriors to overcompensate for other classes being broke. Fixing them doesn't necessary mean you have to buff them. Does it mean monks needed to be nerfed? Yes. Did monks need to be nerfed? YES. If you say no you do not know much about the high end game...even with the supposed def nerf don't kid yourself, monks will still solo and own. Aye...I'm a 60 ranger and I solo in Velk's (doesn't everyone?)...someone earlier posted that Verant only wants rangers and mages to be able to solo...do I need to smack this guy or has someone already done it? (skimmed through most of the posts...to much rambling) For one...everyone solos in Velk's and Fungus...yes...everyone. And monks do it much easier than rangers. All I see in there is twinked out monks with 5 days of play time who are already 55+ whacking through spiders with little downtime. Yeah, KEI helps me cut my downtime in between fights healing myself, but I still can't kill 'em fast as a monk...and this is with both epics (slow proc on EC DOES help me solo a lot)...regardless of the def nerf, monks still will avoid attacks better than any other class...and be on par with chain classes as far as "tanking". I put it in quotes because that is where Verant is bumping them down too. Monks were tanking on par with all of the plate classes AND avoiding the most...they should be tanking like a LEATHER class but their avoidance advantage would put them on par with chain classes as far as total tanking ability.

Someone else mentioned doing away with the weight restrictions...not sure what level range you are having trouble with (these days its all too easy to twink out a monk and get him/her to 60)...and once in the high end the weight argument is as laughable as the whining over the def nerf. Weight limit hasn't been a problem for high end monks since Velious was out and the brilliant implementation of gear with massive ac/100 hp/usable by all/all...with 0 weight. Its all over the place...pre Luclin the biggest example was a certain set of legs for monks with 60 ac. Granted I still think because of that type of gear there will still be problems with monks being able to tank better than they should...but fixing their def should help to correct that.

On the lighter side...I heard a rumor that on test they had upped the ranger defense cap from 220 to 240? Anyone know if this is true? Monks read this next line...if it is someone kill the guys who thought that was the "right" thing to do. Of course...I'm not going to complain if my def cap gets upped 20 points...I just don't think its right. Upping it from 200 to 220 was enough...rangers do very good damage (no, not on par with monks, los issues and mobs in walls ensure we can't use EQ/AM3 all the time) but still get turned into a red stain on the floor if we anger the mob too much...as it should be. Monks should see the brains in this change as well...and not complain because the game will not be as super easy for them as it was before.

~MM

RE: Think before you speak

# Oct 11 2002 at 11:26 PM Rating: Default

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Quote:

pre Luclin the biggest example was a certain set of legs for monks with 60 ac. Granted I still think because of that type of gear there will still be problems with monks being able to tank better than they should...but fixing their def should help to correct that.

Sure, let me just go down and kill AoW with my uber monk skills. Piece o' cake, just tank him for hours on end to get those 60ac legs that I don't need...

Yah right!! OF COURSE a monk twinked out in Flayed Barbarian Leggings and an Ancient Wyvern Hide Tunic (No Drop) is gonna tank better than a plate class! That's 100ac just from TWO frickin pieces! Now how bout being a little more REASONABLE and saying the pair of 10ac (Acrylia Reinforced Legs) to 15ac pants (Oiled Greaves).. oh yah, you Rangers have to over dramatize stuff because you die more than any other class in the game, enchanters included.

The game isn't super easy.. I have to plan out my pulls/attacks just like other people, I just don't have snare/root to run if the mob is too smart for FD.

Oh.. one more thing.. Weight limit.. level 51, sitting at 14lbs. I have 3lbs to play with before I go overweight and still need an offhand. Doesn't help that my WR bag weighs 3lbs, but weight is ALWAYS an issue for monks, twinked or not.

"Think before you speak"? I could say the same for you. :)

Sudden Changes suxxor!

# Oct 11 2002 at 3:51 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

One of the things I have never liked in ANY game, is SUDDEN drastical changes. I have been a DM for almost 10 years and if there's one thing I have learned on that time is that players NEVER like one rule being changed from session to session. How this applies to EQ? easily, these changes surely will make a lot of people mad because they are sudden, and seem to be drastical. Any long time EQ Player can see the MB and CH changes as adequate, with all that I agree, and if I were to explain this to a group of players they would understand even while grumbling about it. But that leaves the case of monks to my inner thoughts as a HARD to explain thing. Why? I might realize that perhaps UBER monks in UBER guilds are way too better at tanking that other classes, but ... and here's the catch, what about the UNUBER monks in UNUBER guilds??? MB' wizzies stealing mobs and sellin' pieces is bad, CH cap could be adjusted and the cleric wont lose a single shine on their healing ability, but monks with less AC? Why Verant thinks that ALL MONKS are better at tanking? oh yes! because a handful of uber monks are better at it!!! Oh yes! Let's nerf the WHOLE monk class then!!! grrr ... why Verant thinks that all people is kitted with the best <insert best uber zone u like in here> kit??? HELLOOOO VERANT!!! There are still monks using low end stuff in their 50's!!! and not many of them WILL ever get to 60, even less make it to join the <insert best uber guild u like here> Guild! . One thing I have always hated is the way for the SIN of a handful the whole populace will PAY!!! I hate that! If I wanted to see that in a game I would rather watch TV! Hope VI realizes they are group of extremely bad planners and stop nerfing things they should not. And YES! I'm ranting against them, and not only for monks, but for the whole game in general! ... I love EQ but nerfing classes is bad, bad bad , why don't they simply upgrade plate wearing classes abilities to the level they SHOULD be??? Man, Warriors are so broken they sometimes bother to get their epics only to look like JEDI! Even their epic is broken, it sux, Verant, oh Verant! why are u like this? FIX the Broken Classes , dont downgrade the rest!

my disappointment

# Oct 11 2002 at 12:49 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

Well I already don't feel like playing any more. If this change to monks goes thru and severely affects the way I play. I will be cancelling both of my accounts.

I have worked hard to get my monk to where he is, and I don't appreciate being screwed over because VI has decided that they would rather nerf one class then fix the other broken classes. And yes warriors are STILL broken. Nerfing monks does not make warriors any better at tanking.

RE: my disappointment

# Oct 11 2002 at 1:05 PM Rating: Decent

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Oops, was not trying to hide behind anonymous. I posted the above message

jefry

# Oct 11 2002 at 12:24 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

I play a 51 lvl monk on FV server With the bet gear I have been able to get my ac is 952 unruffled, now what I want to know is just how I am able to take to much damage in a fight when almost any dark blue mob can outright kill me. I can just about solo light blue mobs If I get no adds at all, but oh ya I forgot VI IS DEAD SET AGENST ANYONE BUT RANGERS AND MABY MAGES BOING ABLE TO SOLO. When I dueled a mage in my guild that is also 51 it was just to fight his pet he never cast on but his pet
Killed me before I was able to lower his hp by 1/5. Faire?
Now I understand that grouping is a big art of the game but most days I can only play for maybe 2 or 3 hours and on the days I don’t have to work and have the time to send in long term group play is Wednesday night Thursday morning, can anyone say patch day, and this means I lose the chance then. I know this sounds like a bunch of whining but it really would be nice to not have to be totally dependant on grouping to get anything done, at least for the casual player.
Now with a limited amount of game time it has taken me a long time and a lot of work done just a little bit at a time to get to where I am now do this nerf to my so called over powered defensive abilities is a real kick in the teeth. I am sure noting anyone says is gonna change the minds of variant on this but I just had to have my say.
As to nerfing the other classes I really not for that as well Evan rangers and mages it may not be faire that they can solo and I cant but we all now the class when we picked it and changing the rules after the fact really stinks. And who doesn’t want the cleric they are playing with not to have al the healing possible
Jefry
51st level monk Friona vie

RE: jefry

# Oct 11 2002 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent

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Scholar

27 posts

Rangers? Solo past 50?

ROFL!!!

Yes, we can barely, but what a PITA. I'd rather not play.

RE: jefry

# Oct 15 2002 at 10:01 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

ok so you can barly solo after 50 but with an ac of 960 and 1700 hp i can do it at all ot anything meaningful just light blues and maby low dark blues and then only if there are no adds then it is fd or die, oh ya and that fd thing at higher
lvl's well it fails to work on the high end mobs so dieing is about the only option left.im not saying we or anyone should be able to solo any thing and every thing but we shoulld be able to do some things on our own.and as for all that uber gear that is making us into such great tanks just try and get any with out being in a uber guild or haveing large blocks of time to spend in groups.we can just save all the loot we get up and buy it in the bazaar i guess,oh but wiat there is that pesky littel wight thing so getting 10k pp to spend on an item is kinda slow going.you know what i mean?when i rolled my monk about 6 months ago it sounded like just what i wanted to play and by the way this is my only char.in that time i have enjoiyed it a great deal i dont want to have to start over and make another one i just want him to stay like he is with all the options he had when i 1st made him all the ne stuff and changes that seem to be what is upseting vi have been in the game the whole time i have been here so from where i sit im no longer getting what i payed for to begin with,not that i am happy with seeing anyone get nerffed.and that ia anoter thing i cant understand all the gloating from others over this i mean how is taking some thing away form me gonna make you any better?
and 1 other thing im on the roll playing server were you can only have one plaer at a time so if i want to stay on that server with all of my frinds i would have to delaet my monk and after all the work i have put into it that is not an option so i would have to go to a diferent one,and who knows maby they will change there minds at vi or at least give us something to make up for it,at least i can hope.

Why nerf???

# Oct 11 2002 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent

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20 posts

First in general, I continue to be amazed that a game out for as long as EQ continues to be modified and in this case to such an extreme. The real point is, every time changes like this take place it will create other problems. Fixing one thing and making a new problem is not really effective. Example: Playing a 60 cleric I know all about healing. Complete Heal is actually not usually my heal of choice. Too much agro (which some time ago they said they changed...right). I really don't have a problem with lower the complete heal cap....unless POP mobs are so high level and Uber it's near to impossible to drop them without chain CHing. As far as the monks go, they are going to be less desireable in groups...especially smaller groups. I'd much rather be healing a warrior/tank than a monk. Even prenerf, monks take a lot more damage when tanking. Wizzie mana burn thing, I don't have a big opinion on, except it does seem a bit overpowered....but it's also not super easy to get to the point and have that ability. The mod rod thing should be left alone. It really isn't infinite mana. Take it from a cleric who was on a raid, used the rods and dropped his health for mana, cast a heal, agro mob at lower health and boom dead. You still have to be careful about using them. Anyway....just my two cents. But I mostly think Verant shouldn't still be making such major changes to game this old and established. Basically, it's like changes the rules in a game everyone has become used to....and that is wrong at this point I feel.

RE: Why nerf???

# Oct 11 2002 at 12:39 PM Rating: Excellent

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Sage

950 posts

I don't think you realize how frustrating it is to have a dragon held hostage by a band of wizards, or be a warrior that gets passed over as a group tank in favor of a Monk. Verant makes these adjustments all the time to try and keep thing fun for everyone, it's just usually the changes are not as dramatic or public.

If Verant did not make balancing adjustments, the game would suck so bad it would be no fun at all. Some classes would be useless, others would be so powerful they'd be bored.

I am sure Verant would much rather use their time and money on other things, but montoring the game and making adjustments is a big part of their job.

RE: Why nerf???

# Oct 11 2002 at 1:34 PM Rating: Excellent

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Scholar

40 posts

I see your point, but I feel that suggestions that other people made, regarding upgrading (warrior/ranger capabilities, for example) is a better idea, rather than decreasing the effectiveness of the Monk class. I understand that Verant wants to make the game challenging, but there has to be a point where they must give in to the paying customer.

Regardless of whether Everquest is their game or not, you, myself, we are all paying customers. And Verant needs to understand that the customer is right. In other words, forget what you think is right, look at the controversy and the email responses you have received on the various boards, and stop what you are doing immediately. Take a couple of steps back and regroup, before you see a 10 to 20 percent loss in your revenue. If people start leaving Everquest in droves, Verant/Sony will see too late that too much change in the wrong direction is going to drastically affect revenue.

This change doesn't make any sense to me, and I don't understand why what they are doing makes sense to you. Since you obviously have a high level character, I'm sure that you can understand how this will impact many casual players. Can you imagine starting another class, all over again, as a casual player? By decreasing the class effectiveness, they are only forcing those who have based their play on the Monk class, to quit playing Everquest, or work on building another alt. The better choice would be to upgrade the other class abilities, not downgrade their effectiveness.

Edited, Fri Oct 11 14:33:30 2002

RE: Why nerf???

# Oct 11 2002 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent

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Scholar

40 posts

I apologize if the tone of my post sounded harsh or negative, but when I look at the posts made by the people who agree with Verant's nerf, I cringe. The more logical choice to me, is to bolster the abilities of the War/Ran melee classes. This nerf will affect many high level Monks -- some of whom have spent years getting their character up to its present state. Why not upgrade the stats of the Warrior class (for example), to not only help the plate melees in the game, but also make them a more attractive class to start and build?

This way, everyone is happy.

/sigh

# Oct 11 2002 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent

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1 post

Having played most every class in EQ I settled on a monk. I am finally level 60, in a good guild but we are not quite yet Vindi capable. My unbuffed AC is less than 1100 (no I am not playing a handbag, I'm human.) I have no problem with the defense nerf. I do have a problem with some other things...a lvl 60 Ranger does about the same melee damage I do but tanks as a chain class, I can live with this IF some changes are made.

Remove the weight limit imposed on monks. With the coming change that is the only problem I can see. VI tried to limit the monks by restricting weight, that didn't work so now they hit them with a DEF nerf. Get rid of the weight thing and make us a leather wearing warrior who can FD/Mend as compensation for our deficiencies.

Depending how this is implemented, pulls will be VERY difficult for monks (you can't dodge/block while running back to the group.) I'm hoping for a softcap on AC and not a complete mitigation nerf, otherwise a well played SK will replace a monk on pulls. If my job becomes ONLY melee damage then I'll play a rogue....

What defines monks as a class?

-Felicite Oakenfist, 60 Grandmaster (GreyLords)

Vindi

# Oct 11 2002 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent

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Sage

950 posts

What does "Vindi capable" mean? Able to make it though the Temple of Veeshan alive?

RE: Vindi

# Oct 13 2002 at 10:14 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

"Vindi capable" means being able to take out the Vindicator in Kael Drakkel.

RE: Vindi

# Oct 13 2002 at 10:13 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

"Vindi capable" means being able to take out the Vindicator in Kael Drakkel.

RE: /sigh

# Oct 11 2002 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good

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Sage

164 posts

Yes, I agree that these changes may make it harder for monks to pull certain mobs, and since SKs are a plate class with FD ability (albeit via spell), they do make better pullers in these few situations.

As a bard, I have a terribly hard time feeling sorry for monks because their ability to pull has been reduced in a few select cases. Before FD, bards were undisputably the best pullers in the game. Bards still make good pullers, although with FD in the game, I have a hard time convincing some groups to let me try. If there is a monk in the group, pulling will still be their role automatically. And the great monks I know will still be able to pull with the AC of a wet paper bag.

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