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#27 Feb 20 2014 at 1:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Friar Bijou wrote:
I just really @#%^ing hate it when people propagate lies as the truth. (WW II in particular, as that's my balliwick, so to speak).
We never hear a thing about all the giraffes that died in concentration camps, not a darn thing.

Utter travesty. Smiley: disappointed
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#28 Feb 20 2014 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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First they came for the giraffes and I did not speak out -- because I wasn't a giraffe


Amusingly, it occurs to me that the first actual line from that is "First they came for the Socialists...". Next Gbaji can claim the ***** were all trade unionists and Jews.
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#29 Feb 20 2014 at 4:38 PM Rating: Good
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First they came for the giraffes and I did not speak out -- because I wasn't a giraffe


Yeah, sorry about that.
#30 Feb 20 2014 at 8:06 PM Rating: Default
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
The horrors of the holocaust were so completely reviled that no one could continue to publicly associate any political movement with those ideas anymore. But they're still linked. What makes socialist theory "work" is the necessity of the state to somehow force people to be productive. You must replace the free market incentive of personal economic growth with something else.

I don't think it's hard for folks who live in socialist countries to recognize that they are more or less subject to the whim of the government for their livelihood. And that's remarkably like an animal in the zoo, isn't it?

I know your completely retarded when in comes to history, but, once again. DESPITE THE NAME (NATIONAL SOCIALIST GERMAN WORKERS PARTY), THE **** WERE NEITHER SOCIALIST NOR A PARTY FOR THE WORKERS.


Sigh. And yet, nearly every single thing they did (at least the ones we revile most) were things that were commonly proposed by the socialists of the day. Eugenics was a core component of socialist movements right up until Germany actually did it, and the world condemned it universally. It was an open part of the socialist ideology. What's happening is that modern socialists engage in revisionist history so as to distance themselves from what happened in Germany (and other places like Russia, China, Cambodia, etc).

If it was just about the name, you'd have a point. But it's not. It's about socialists proposing that we create systems where the weak of society are culled so the strong may thrive. The only difference between socialism back then and socialism today is that the proponents of socialism back then weren't afraid to follow their ideology to its logical conclusion. And that logical conclusion required the implementation of some kind of system to eliminate the non-productive members of society.

I know that this is non PC to say, but the only way socialism actually works in the long run is if you do this. You cannot build a system in which the government provides for the people and allow the people to consume more than they produce. Well, you can, but it will collapse. At some point you absolutely must either eliminate the non-productive people, or force them to be productive. Either of which requires more or less abandoning the concept of liberty. This hasn't magically changed since the early 20th century. The socialist thinkers have just gotten smart enough not to directly tell the masses what will happen if they follow their ideology.


If you take your head out of the sand and actually engage your brain, you'll realize that this is true.
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#31 Feb 20 2014 at 8:10 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
First they came for the giraffes and I did not speak out -- because I wasn't a giraffe


Amusingly, it occurs to me that the first actual line from that is "First they came for the Socialists...". Next Gbaji can claim the ***** were all trade unionists and Jews.


Again, it's you guys who keep getting caught up on labels. In Germany "the socialists" were a particular political group. They were opposed to the *****, not because their ideology was radically different, but because they were very similar, and they were competing for the same supporters. Same deal with the communists. All three groups were opposed to the existing government for much of the same reasons. It was more an argument about who should be in charge than anything else (well, that and the communists wanted Germany to basically join the USSR as a satellite state, but I suppose that's still boils down to who's in charge).
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#32 Feb 20 2014 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Again, it's you guys who keep getting caught up on labels...

...he said as he tried with all his might to link socialism to Nazism...

Smiley: laugh Ah, you. You might be dangerous if you could ever make an argument that wasn't immediately laughed at.
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#33 Feb 20 2014 at 9:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
It's about socialists (racial supremacists, actualy) proposing that we create systems where the weak of society are culled so the strong may thrive. .


gbaji wrote:
Again, it's you guys who keep getting caught up on labels. In Germany "the socialists" were a particular political group. They were opposed to the *****, not because their ideology was radically different, but because they were very similar, and they were competing for the same supporters. Same deal with the communists. ).

You really are astonishingly, breathtakingly, mind-blowingly stupid.

I get that you don't get your news from anywhere, but you really should get your history from a reliable source.
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#34 Feb 20 2014 at 9:21 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Again, it's you guys who keep getting caught up on labels...

...he said as he tried with all his might to link socialism to Nazism...

Smiley: laugh Ah, you. You might be dangerous if you could ever make an argument that wasn't immediately laughed at.


Um... Modern liberals "immediately laughing at" things, usually is a sign that they don't have a good counter argument.

In this case, when people like me argue that the ***** were socialists, we usually actually look at what the ***** did, what they said, the arguments they used, the social policies they created, the thinkers they drew upon, etc. Then we compare these to a list of socialist positions, ideologies, etc, and show how similar they are.

When people like you argue against this, you ignore the long list of commonalities and instead focus on surface stuff and fallacious counters like "Just because the word Socialist is in their name, that doesn't mean they're socialists. Just like all those countries with "Democratic" and "Republic" in their names". That's great and all, but it doesn't mean that a country or party with Socialist in the name *isn't* actually socialist (like say the USSR). Which is kinda the point.


The ***** were socialists. Period. They shared nearly every single political position with the socialists of the day. And no amount of you sticking your fingers in your ears and refusing to hear it makes it not true.

Edited, Feb 20th 2014 7:22pm by gbaji
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#35 Feb 20 2014 at 9:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wrong on every single level.
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#36 Feb 20 2014 at 9:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Um... Modern liberals "immediately laughing at" things, usually is a sign that they don't have a good counter argument.
Not just liberals laugh at you. But you know, getting caught up in labels and all that.
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#37 Feb 20 2014 at 10:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Um... Modern liberals "immediately laughing at" things, usually is a sign that they don't have a good counter argument.

Or that what they just read was more funny than anything else. You get the responses you deserve, not the ones you wish you deserved.
Quote:
The ***** were socialists. Period.

Even if this were true, the ole "all tigers are cats, not all cats are tigers" applies. No one today gets worked up about ***** purely on the basis of their stance on government business regulation or banking policy. The only reason anyone bothers trying to link the two (and let's face it, the only reason you're trying to) is to tangentially link economic socialism to the atrocities of the Holocaust, military expansionism and other related things that actually had nothing at all to do with socialism. It's a naked (and rather pathetic) appeal to emotion.

Edited, Feb 20th 2014 10:17pm by Jophiel
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#38 Feb 20 2014 at 10:23 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
pathetic

See, I always leave out descriptive words like that.

Thanks, Jophiel!!
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#39 Feb 21 2014 at 10:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Is this thread about naked giraffes yet?
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#40 Feb 21 2014 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Is this thread about naked giraffes yet?

Giraffes are naked by default, so it always has been.
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#41 Feb 21 2014 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Um... Modern liberals "immediately laughing at" things, usually is a sign that they don't have a good counter argument.
Not just liberals laugh at you. But you know, getting caught up in labels and all that.

Sorry to say, but it's you that's being laughed at. There is no slippery slope, no imaginable leaps from giraffe to peeps. GB Shaw is a playwright who's been dead for more than half a century - why do you quote him some 4 generations later when what you quoted has not come to pass?

In fact, I think it's the liberals who recognize that every single person has worth. Even trolls.

As Goodwill tells us, "Nothing goes to waste, not a shirt, not a shoe, not a person".

...or a giraffe.







Edited, Feb 21st 2014 7:03pm by Elinda
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#42 Feb 21 2014 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
GB Shaw is a playwright who's been dead for more than half a century - why do you quote him some 4 generations later when what you quoted has not come to pass?

To be fair, he's an acolyte to an ideology that sincerely believes "Party of Lincoln" should be winning them minority votes. This sort of thing is just what he does.
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#43 Mar 26 2014 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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When they came for the giraffes the lions stayed silent.

Yup, now they come for the lions.

Roar!
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#44 Mar 26 2014 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
When they came for the giraffes the lions stayed silent.

Yup, now they come for the lions.

Roar!


Next will be the Hyenas.
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#45 Mar 26 2014 at 10:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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So they killed the giraffe and fed it to the lions. Begs the question of whether or not they killed the lions and fed them to the giraffes.

I mean that only seems fair.

Edited, Mar 26th 2014 9:51am by someproteinguy
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#46 Mar 26 2014 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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The plans were for the lions all along. The giraffe was just their last meal.
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#47 Jun 27 2014 at 9:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
Elinda wrote:
When they came for the giraffes the lions stayed silent.

Yup, now they come for the lions.

Roar!


Next will be the Hyenas.
Turns out it was the bears.

Putting it on display to teach kids that nature can be cruel, only they killed it with an injection. Must have been all natural chemicals in the needle. Smiley: rolleyes
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#48 Jun 27 2014 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
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Lions and giraffes and bears, oh my.
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