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Controversy over a Super Bowl adFollow

#102 Feb 06 2014 at 1:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yup. And they learned English and/or made sure their children did. So today, you aren't stuck living in an immigrant enclave within your own country. The multicultural movement encourages the opposite. That's what people are complaining about.


You're right. Subsequent generations were taught English. I learned English. I also became willfully educated, and I am not threatened by a coke commercial that has people singing in different languages. Hell, they could have done the commercial in Klingon, Elvish, and Anne Hecht's secret language with God and I would have had about the same reaction. What is the big deal?

English, when viewed over the course of human history, is relatively new and nothing spectacular, really. Words were dropped. Words were added. Words were changed. It's not the same as it was when the Anglo-Saxons spoke it, and it's not even the same as what is currently spoken across the pond, from whence "America" and "English" came.

So why are you acting like they dealt a direct blow to some point of pride? It didn't even originate here!

Let's be honest about what the actual issue here is. "People" aren't complaining that immigrants are being encouraged to stay segregated by a coke ad speaking to them in their native tongue. People are complaining that these folks exist at all.

Well guess what? Your time in power is swiftly coming to a close. I know you think you are some sort of warrior of light for the greater good and it gives you a sick sort of satisfaction to be the lone voice of righteousness in a thread full of "The Left", but your efforts are wasted. People will be free, the races will mingle, and soon, we will breed all your ignorance out.

#103 Feb 06 2014 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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My favorite part of what you just quoted is that gbaji thinks he's liberating these people from their horrible, savage cultures. He's using the word enclave like it's a containment camp, and not a group of people who choose to live in close proximity to one another because of the mutual cultural understanding and comfort that affords.

Sure, many of their kids will choose to live outside of cultural communities, since the original culture is less central to their identity than it was for their parents. But there are plenty of second or third generation persons living as part of those cultural communities, and not because of economic reasons.

Others, on the other hand, want to get as far away from them.

Shockingly, this is rather similar to how any adult views their childhood home, regardless of cultural origin.

I can't wait to leave my childhood town behind. Other people I grew up with are thinking they'll buy a house there some day. It's not really any different.

[EDIT]

Something I WILL say, and this is 100% anecdotal, is that I've never once heard someone say "I'm happy I don't speak X" when their parents chose to raise them without the language (something I understand is particularly prevalent in some Spanish-speaking families, because they're so particularly stigmatized in much of the country).

But, going to Rutgers, I met many people whose parents and/or grandparents spoke a language they didn't understand, and plenty of them were particularly sad they never learned the tongue of their heritage.

It's also a really firm theme of modern minority writing, discussing the loss of language as an example of forced assimilation, rather than cultural integration.

Edited, Feb 6th 2014 2:44pm by idiggory
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#104 Feb 06 2014 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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You can't just learn English at 30 and speak it like a native. You teach your kids to learn it and what not, but you'll never be able to fully integrate yourself, ever. The human mind just isn't that flexible.


Well, you can speak it better than a stupid native. Plenty of those around.

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Have you tried learning French? There are too damn many exceptions of grammar rules and exceptions of exceptions, German has the whole different cases or whatever it's called. It's a royal pain anyway and Finnish has even more of them, impossible to learn language that is (though it sounds nice).


It's when words start having sex that I give up. I don't give a damn if some Spanish dude a thousand years ago decided he'd like to **** a bridge.
#105 Feb 06 2014 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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ITT: US citizen who thinks his culture is the result of successful integration.

gbaji wrote:
Am I? Then what do you think was the purpose of having them sing in multiple languages Joph?


I know I'm not Jophiel, but I think they used multiple languages as a simple way to symbolize that the country is home to people of many different cultural backgrounds, but that every citizen, regardless of cultural background, has one thing in common: They love 'Murica and think it's purdy!

Considering Coca-Cola's advertisement history, this seems very much in line with the company's values.

From the official YouTube video description:

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The only thing more beautiful than this country are the people who live here.
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#106 Feb 06 2014 at 4:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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#107 Feb 06 2014 at 8:02 PM Rating: Good
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Oh, apparently people are freaking out over the Cheerio commercial, too. Because interracial couple.

In case you want some blatant racism with your xenophobia.
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#108 Feb 06 2014 at 9:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Mazra is more smartester than Gbaji.
Not much of a complement, so are my boots.
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#109 Feb 06 2014 at 9:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
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The only thing more beautiful than this country are the people who live here.
They're obviously perverts of some kind. People and their weird kinks. Smiley: oyvey
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#110 Feb 07 2014 at 7:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Oh, apparently people are freaking out over the Cheerio commercial, too. Because interracial couple.

In case you want some blatant racism with your xenophobia.


Imagine if it was a gay interracial couple. I think gbaji would blow a fuse.

Or a load.
#111 Feb 07 2014 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Please don't ban me Kao. I honestly read most of every post that I down-voted, and I was genuinely offended and sickened by the ones that I did down-vote. As evidence I proffer to you the two gbaji posts I didn't down-vote in this thread. I don't have anything to offer this thread, other people covered what needed to be said very well.

Edited, Feb 7th 2014 10:52am by Aripyanfar
#112 Feb 07 2014 at 9:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think I bothered to rate a single post. Stop making me look bad. Smiley: glare
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#113 Feb 07 2014 at 12:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Usually if I was going to do anything about ratings it would be a norate or a pile of ratings somewhere. I don't think aside from ratebots that I have ever banned someone solely for rating posts. And people get annoyed at the occasional post. its when people start following others around outside that post and rating all their posts down and it isn't someone annoying so everyone is doing that anyways that we intervene.
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#114 Feb 07 2014 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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I'm so confused by what's happening right now.
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#115 Feb 07 2014 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I'm so confused by what's happening right now.

You're not the only one.
#116 Feb 07 2014 at 1:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I'm so confused by what's happening right now.

You're not the only one.
Ari karma bombed the thread then begged for mercy. Smiley: nod
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#117 Feb 07 2014 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I'm so confused by what's happening right now.

You're not the only one.
Ari karma bombed the thread then begged for mercy. Smiley: nod

This.

I have one observation: I think Coca Cola made a brilliant play for the newest, youngest generations in America. They were obviously willing to alienate older drinkers of Coke to do so. Coke can't make any good health or nutrition associations. But they can associate themselves with changing social demographics. And I'm not really talking about appealing to minorities here, but appealing to a progressive, liberal young majority on social issues. Oh, and to all the ex-hippies in the aging Boomer population.

Edited, Feb 7th 2014 3:00pm by Aripyanfar

Edited, Feb 7th 2014 3:01pm by Aripyanfar
#118 Feb 07 2014 at 4:47 PM Rating: Default
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Overblown....

Edit: I avoided the commercial for awhile because I didn't know what it was, but now I see it's just a commercial.

Edited, Feb 8th 2014 12:48am by Almalieque
#119 Feb 07 2014 at 5:00 PM Rating: Good
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I have one observation: I think Coca Cola made a brilliant play for the newest, youngest generations in America. They were obviously willing to alienate older drinkers of Coke to do so. Coke can't make any good health or nutrition associations. But they can associate themselves with changing social demographics. And I'm not really talking about appealing to minorities here, but appealing to a progressive, liberal young majority on social issues. Oh, and to all the ex-hippies in the aging Boomer population.


All they have to do is make those sugar-sweetened cokes more affordable.

That ****'s delicious, and I normally hate soda.
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#120gbaji, Posted: Feb 07 2014 at 5:31 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I find it amusing that you guys can't get your stories straight on whether or not enclaves are becoming more or less common. You've got one side saying "yeah, they're increasing, but that's a good thing!" and the other side saying "We must deny it's happening at all so as to avoid having to discuss the question of whether it's actually a good thing". Funny as hell guys.
#121 Feb 07 2014 at 5:42 PM Rating: Default
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Mazra wrote:
ITT: US citizen who thinks his culture is the result of successful integration.


That's what culture is. I get that this may be politically incorrect (and why the hell is that?), but it's also absolutely true.

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gbaji wrote:
Am I? Then what do you think was the purpose of having them sing in multiple languages Joph?


I know I'm not Jophiel, but I think they used multiple languages as a simple way to symbolize that the country is home to people of many different cultural backgrounds, but that every citizen, regardless of cultural background, has one thing in common: They love 'Murica and think it's purdy!


They accomplished the "people of many different cultural backgrounds" bit with the imagery. That's my point. If they'd had those people all singing the same song in the same language it would have actually put a strong message about America being a nation of many people from many different origins.

That's how you accomplish that. You contrast the origins with where they are now. By having them sing in various different languages, the message is that nothing changed about them when they came to America. There's no before/after contrast. It's all about different people from different places speaking different languages. Where's America in this picture?

It's not there. There is no America there. That's the point.

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From the official YouTube video description
Quote:
The only thing more beautiful than this country are the people who live here.


Yup. You honestly don't see how that might be offensive in the context of "America the beautiful"? It's saying that America isn't Beautiful. People from other countries speaking other languages are more beautiful. This is exactly the point I'm making. It's an image of America that says it's not about a cultural melting pot that results in "America", but just a bunch of different people, from different places, speaking different languages, who all just happen to live in the same geographical place.

America, as presented in the ad, isn't an ideal, or a culture, it's just a place people live in. Get it? That's why it's offensive.
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#122 Feb 07 2014 at 5:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Then what do you think was the purpose of having them sing in multiple languages.. ?
To sell soda pop.


Could they not have sold just as much soda pop if they'd all been singing in English?
Nope.

But keep telling yourself there's more to it than that.


Edited, Feb 7th 2014 3:45pm by someproteinguy
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#123 Feb 07 2014 at 5:48 PM Rating: Default
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someproteinguy wrote:
gbaji wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Then what do you think was the purpose of having them sing in multiple languages.. ?
To sell soda pop.


Could they not have sold just as much soda pop if they'd all been singing in English?
Nope.


You don't think so? Why not? Do you understand anything about art and messaging? You aren't showing those people becoming "Americans" by having them all sing in their own languages. You do that by having them all sing in English. Again, it's about showing the contrast of before/after. That's how you create the message.

By having both "sides" of the ad showing the same thing (different people of different cultures speaking different languages), you completely step on any possible message about "America". It's not about America. It's about everything else.

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But keep telling yourself there's more to it than that.


Sigh. I'll ask again (because apparently all of you are afraid of the answer). What is the difference in message between that commercial as it was, and if it had had them all singing in English? There is a difference, right? What is it?
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#124 Feb 07 2014 at 5:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
I'll ask again (because apparently all of you are afraid of the answer). What is the difference in message between that commercial as it was, and if it had had them all singing in English?
Nothing really, other than maybe reaching a few people who might not speak English well.

gbaji wrote:
There is a difference, right?
A little maybe.

gbaji wrote:
What is it?
See above.

Edit: No seriously, if it wasn't for this thread I really would have completely forgotten about this commercial by now.

Edited, Feb 7th 2014 4:00pm by someproteinguy
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#125 Feb 07 2014 at 5:55 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
gbaji wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Then what do you think was the purpose of having them sing in multiple languages.. ?
To sell soda pop.


Could they not have sold just as much soda pop if they'd all been singing in English?
Nope.


You don't think so? Why not? Do you understand anything about art and messaging?


Do you think we'd all be here talking about a TV commercial if they all sang in English? Would any of us even remember it?
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#126 Feb 07 2014 at 8:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Then midway through learning it my French teacher decided she wanted to run off with a truck driver. I'm not sure any of us learned a thing that last year. Smiley: lol
You should have. Never trust the French.
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