Brad McQuaid on Exploiting Bugs

Brad McQuaid posted on the developer's corner about Verant's policy on exploiting bugs. The full text is inside. Hello all, Recently I've not only received emails specifically regarding the Conquest guild issue, but also about exploiting in general. First, some people are confused as to what an exploit is and how they're to know what an exploit is. Some are also afraid they might accidentally exploit and then be disciplined. An exploit, quite simply, is using a bug in the game to your advantage. Most of them are obvious: attacking NPCs that are stuck, or the ability to duplicate items or money. But we do realize it's not always easy to tell. To this end it has been and will continue to be our policy to warn people when they are caught exploiting. It basically works like this: 1. You are caught exploiting, you receive a warning and the exploit is explained to you. 2. You are caught exploiting again (this includes either literally being caught or caught and we have evidence you were aware it was an exploit -- in other words, premeditated exploiting) and you are suspended for a period of time. 3. You are caught exploiting yet again -- you are banned. A second issue that's arisen is the question: why do we care if people are exploiting? Are we just upset they're not playing the game the way we wanted them to? The answer is honestly "no, that has nothing to do with it." The following is an email and my reply to it which I think more clearly explains why we cannot allow bug exploitation in EverQuest: -----Original Message----- From: Robert Mayer Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 7:30 AM To: bmcquaid@verant.com Subject: Question You guys seem to be holding players responsible for doing things the game allows but you don't intend to happen. You are labeling as "exploits" anything that is possible, but doesn't fit into the game as you designed it. Then I guess I failed to communicate the issues very effectively, because that is absolutely NOT what we're doing. We are labeling exploits as we always have, that being using bugs to your advantage in-game. Conquest used spell stacking bugs to their advantage and they used a safe zone (an area where a pathing bug made it such that an NPC wouldn't pursue those it was mad at) to their advantage. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that in effect you're saying "look, we aren't perfect, we can't code a game that is 100% free of loopholes because nobody can, but you should as players be able to infer what we intend, and if you do things that are clearly going against our intent, that's an exploit and you'll be disciplined." Yes and no. We're saying that taking advantage of bugs is NOT ok. And we're saying that 1. knowing you're exploiting a bug and 2. where and to what end your exploiting, are both factors in determining how we react to a player or players who are exploiting. Whew. I've never heard a game company essentially say that the players are responsible for the developer's programming, design, and implementation errors. No offense, because I realize it's a bitch to run a game like EQ, but it seems absurd to me to expect players to do anything but try their utmost to use every single tool you give them, deliberately or accidentally, to succeed. After all, the only point of EQ, beyond chatting, is to level up, and the only rewards beyond the social come from leveling up and killing things. You put umpteen thousand people into a world and tell them "go forth and kill MOBs," and by gum they're gonna do it. You can't reasonably then expect them to adhere to something like "oh, and only kill MOBs the way we intend for you to kill them!" No, they're responsible for not taking advantage of bugs in-between the time they're discovered and when we have a chance to fix them. And we've always had this policy. UO certainly has this policy, and I think AC does to an extent now. And I'd submit the majority of persistent, massively multiplayer community based games in the future will have these policies. Why? Well, because what you do in a community based game like this affects other players. If you take advantage of a dupe bug, you can hurt the economy, and ruin the play experience of hundreds if not thousands of other players. If you take advantage of a pathing bug and kill a monster to obtain loot that you really shouldn't be able to, then the guy who did work harder to obtain that same loot without exploiting is not going to feel very entertained. Rather, he's going to feel frustrated and perhaps even regret that he did it the 'right way'. It's the same as in real life -- society is generally NOT ok with taking short cuts (especially at the expense of others). Insider Trading is not ok. Cutting through a parking lot to avoid traffic is not ok. Embezzling and stealing and cheating to advance oneself at the expense of others is NOT ok. And so why the heck should it be ok in the communities and societies that are being developed in online computer games? Because it's a game? Does my sense of accomplishment and are my feelings about right and wrong somehow less valid inside a virtual reality than they are in the real world? No man is an island, and that includes a person in Norrath. From reading all of the public info on the Conquest incident, it seems to me that these guys simply took advantage of holes your programmers left in the game. If an NPC can't summon or move for X seconds or due to Y geometry, um, tough titty to you, Kitty--fix it. If you leave it in, you can't ethically blame someone for taking advantage of it. It's your responsibility, and you'rs (Verant's) alone, to make the game unexploitable. Agreed to a point, and expanding on that, it's Verant's responsibility to make sure we are offering an entertaining and fair play environment for our customers. And so we fix bugs, and we also crack down on players who would use bugs to cheapen the playing experience of others. And I disagree it's unethical to blame a player for taking advantage of a bug. If a person leaves the door open at their place of business, thereby creating a hole in the company's security, yes, it's the person's fault for doing this. But that doesn't mean it's ok for someone to come along and enter the building, taking advantage of the open door. He gets blamed too. Now, if players change the code, hack it, or abuse other players, disciplinary action seems warranted. But to even bother suspending players whose only real "crime" seems to be to take advantage of coding problems on your end--well, you're asking way too much of your customers. But taking advantage of coding or data problems can in some cases ABUSE OTHER PLAYERS, which is the point I apparently failed miserably to communicate, because it keeps coming up, not just in your email but in others. Once you create the world, it isn't yours any more, just like when a novelist writes a book. If someone wants to interpret The Stand as an allegory about French cooking, there's nothing Stephen King can do about it. Yeah, an online game isn't as passive as a book, but it's the same concept. You guys seem to be holding on way too tight. Who cares if they "exploit" the flaws in the programming? Turn off the zone, fix the flaws, and go on. Every single exploit you guys identify should be seen as an opportunity to improve the game or refine it--that's good, and it's your right. But to discipline players for finding your mistakes… man, that's pretty low. Again, reading a book is not a shared, community based experience. Misinterpreting a book, and for a better analogy, cheating in a single player game does NOT hurt the play experience for others. But, and this is the key point here, cheating in a shared community based online experience DOES. thanks, -- --------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid Vice President, Premium Games Sony Online Entertainment/Verant Interactive ---------------------------------------------

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but i don't care
# Jun 20 2001 at 4:00 PM Rating: Default
I believe Brad McQuaid is not at all interested in us players having a great time or not, instead it is just a purely economical issue. They have designed EQ to be time consuming - that's how they earn their money - so getting loot should be difficult - anything that speeds up the process is threath to profit; It is really not our responsibility to debug your program - since that is what you are saying. Any bug that makes it easier for us to get an item is not really our problem and it doesnt bother me at all if somebody does exploit such a thing. The program is full of strange things, mostly they hurt us more than they hurt you. I believe it evens out :p

just my 2c's
i just don't agree
# Jun 18 2001 at 12:09 AM Rating: Default
they can put a spin on fair play all they want the bottom line is you shouldn't punish people for your mistakes. Also how can you really define an exploit? it's almost like trying to determine what a perfect world would be like; everyone has their own opinion. One man strategy is another mans exploit is basically the message being sent here.
Games vs RL
# Jun 14 2001 at 2:27 PM Rating: Good
I don't know... I just don't see it. For me, this is just a game. If someone in a zone far away is fearing a mob into a wall and killing it, well it just doesn't concern me. If I'm actually worried about that, then I don't need to be playing the game anymore. Quading, and fear kiting however, are not listed as an abuse. At least to my understanding of the rules. I also asked a GM, and they said that was part of the game.

So now I'm sitting in CS, fear kiting single Wyverns. My my dots and pet doing the damage, while I keep it blinded and feared. Very effective. The pathing the wyvern takes is right down the center of the ledge with little to no chance of adds. However, just before it dies, (and I have everthing under control) it hits a point... in the wide open space where it gets stuck. Nothing there... it just gets stuck. I've reported this, but nothing changes. If it didn't get stuck, nothing would change.. it is still feared, he would probably get a few more feed down the ledge before he dies... So, is this an advantage to me? Nope. Is it an abuse? Not as far as I can see. I've reported the bug. I want to be able to hunt the wyvern. I'm kiting in the wide open using fear. But they always end up going to the same place. Isn't predictable pathing an unfair advantage? Why don't they go in random directions? Wouldn't this really be the fair and hard way to do things?

For me... its a game. I enjoy it. And no matter what or how others play, I will still have fun playing this game. It is a game...isn't it? Do we take it too seriously?

Now back to R.L.

Kestonread
but i don't care
# Jun 14 2001 at 11:39 AM Rating: Decent
Yes i am sure you don't care....Because as you stated you most likely won't be in a uber Guild..but does that make it right for them to take away from a guild or raid party that does things right... think about it guild x plans on a raid the right way...they get 60 people together..NO small task.. they plan the raid out.. ok now they are ready..But.. asthey enter zone.. what do they see 14 people who used cheats to accomplish what they just spent hoursa if not days to develope there stratedy and people to participate... Guess What THey would CARE... you have the right for your opinion and i understand what you are saying...but do you realy think it is fair to guild X..?
RE: but i don't care
# Jun 16 2001 at 10:02 AM Rating: Decent
18 posts
The kernel of your point is that Guild X has been hurt in someway becase Guild Y got to the encounter first, despite all the work Guild X put into planning and orginization. Well, this emotion of "dang it, it's camped!" is common regardless of exploitation. Every group wanting to do Dervs in Nro, Magi room in Lguk, Wyverns in CS, etc... will feel sorry that the places are already camped. REGARDLESS of exploitation. And so you appear to be using the exploitation of GUILD Y only as a means for vengeance, for reporting to the GM and punishing them for beating you to the area. Believe it or not, your anger is about being beat to the mob, and while anyone would be upset about seeing exploitation (including me) your anger of it at that moment is due to transferrence.

My point is that this emotion is based on a need for loot. And in the ST example, for being the first people to take a mob. Getting loot is fun, killing mobs is fun, but when you decide to reduce your definition of having fun in EQ to whether or not you get PHAT LEWT, then in my opinion your priorities are off. My original post was meant to show that I have fun playing this game regardless of the non-uber gear I play with, or how often other people have cleaned out the zone I'm in, and thus VI's focus on CS was a tad misplaced.

I don't like to see exploitation either, believe it or not. I think it reduces that person's gaming experience and makes him or her into a less qualified grouping member later on at higher levels. However, it simply doesn't affect me. I'm not jealous of the rate they get experience and burn out fuses because I am mad that I can't get that fast exp fairly. I choose not to be upset. I choose to center my gaming experience on the fun aspects that won't change regardless of level, zone, and loot. That is, am I having fun exploring, am I having fun socializing with my old and new friends, would I rather be doing anything else at the moment but playing EQ?

Besides, only about 60 people per server will probably ever be able to claim "I got there first" in some of these zones, some of which might be members of the group doing things wrongly. So Verant's aggressive policing of ST, for example, hurt 30 people to save maybe 40 or 50 people's bragging rights. In the end, as my original post meant to convey, this hurts me because the CS reps are spending less time solving the real problems that annoy every gamer (and not just bickering uberites) and make the overall experience less pleasant. People can't get their bodies out of a wall before the rez timer expires. People can't get certain players to stop harassing them. People can't get to FV cause the boats are broken again. People can't get their quest item back because a bug ate it on trade to the npc. All because we have CS reps spending time laying traps to catch people exploiting, when it really shouldn't be such a big deal.
But I don't care!
# Jun 14 2001 at 11:05 AM Rating: Decent
18 posts
Brad McQuaid seems to think he is protecting me.

I don't care if the uber guild members get even more uber gear than the super-uber gear they used to have. As a lower level member of the game, and a member of a never-to-be-uber guild... I will never see these items except through the awesome website Allakhazam runs. And if I do, I don't care much how many have gotten them already before me. I still use a Ghoulbane for pete's sake, but I don't sit around lamenting how non-uber it is and shaking my fists at the "dirty rotten uber scoundrels" that can get into ST for some primal weapons.

So, it doesn't affect me or my playing style. I don't feel maligned or hurt by Conquest taking down super uber mobs I'll only read about anyway. Someone killing a mob easily because he or she can quad-kite, or get it stuck in a pathing problem, or hide under a bridge and get free nukes in does very little to lessen the pleasurable gaming experience I get from EQ. If anything I sit there and wish I too could quad-kite, or have a necro pet to destroy a mob that I feared.

What DOES bother my playing experience is getting KSed, or ninja-looted on, or getting rude punks spamming on shout just to **** everyone off. Sure, I recognize someone able to dupe an item will destroy the economy and hurt me. These are the customer service issues I wish were more aggressively acted upon, vice GM's laying around invisibly to trap people using "unfair tactics".

Face it, when I kill Nagafen in a raid next month for the first time ever, my gaming experience will be great. Regardless of how many times Nagafen has been killed and looted in the last couple years.

So, Brad's opinion that he is protecting people isn't as sound in my opinion as he thinks it is. I simply don't care what tactics people use to kill mobs, just that they do it with fun, social camaraderie, cooperation, and a pleasant demeanor.
agreed
# Jun 14 2001 at 9:12 AM Rating: Default
Im fairly new to this game being only a mere 23 seasons old but have a similar opinion. The extracts ive read of the multiple communications would seem to support (in MY eyes) verant.

My ONE major question is on the comments that in some zones it seems to go unnoticed and in others its cracked down on BIG time. (Im SO young i still dont know where some of these places are hehe) I can understand the theory that "just cos they do it here..." shouldnt stand (two wrongs etc.) but surely there should be a balance (there MAY be again i not got all the info)

And i suppose to finish this ramble about nothing in particular... Im sure there's a lawyer on here somewhere, how about putting in your tuppen'th on who you think'd win in court )))))
Drapar
# Jun 14 2001 at 8:51 AM Rating: Default
Hi all i been reading on this Exploit problem,,,
And i guess we as members should realize that this exploit rule is for us...not Varant... When some one is cheating....I say Cheating..as in the person know 's he is exploiting a bug..he is not doing his fellow members any justice Varant is protecting us from THieves....Not everyt one that has or will exploit may realize they are ..but as varant says people are issued a warning...this is fair....If people are warned before action is taken upon them for exploiting then this realy should be put to bed....i stand behind varant .. i guess i like a Fair playing field...now varrant fix those bugs =)
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