This weapon has +8 Charisma, but honestly, how much does it help besides for BCNMs? People just tell you to get it because its cookie cutter, i'd love to know who first said this is the best weapon for a Bard (and for those who beleive CHR+ also helps Finale, YOUR WRONG)
Edited, Wed Jun 9 10:51:43 2004 by PimpyTaru
Signa, Need or Obsession?Follow
2 posts
NEWB WHM ,"VOKE IT! VOOOOOKE IM GONNA DIE!" Newb war," I dont think i have that spell yet..." Other newb war," Whut R Voke?"
I don't know who first said it was the best weapon for a bard, but I don't think it was much of a stretch for them to say it. What level are you?? If you are below level 50, maybe thats why you don't think it's that good, because resists aren't as big a deal there (although it's still the best weapon at that point imo since you still do get resists). Post 50, when you start having to recast offensive spells a few times before they all stick, you might feel differently. It's really getting tiresome hearing people say that just because something is cookie cutter means that whoever follows that "cookie cutter" idea is an idiot. People say whm sub is bad because it's cookie cutter to justify subbing such things as ninja. There's a reason that an idea became the "cookie cutter" idea in the first place. It's because that's the most effective thing. As for chr helping finale... I don't think I've ever once seen anyone on these boards mention anything helping finale, since it pretty much never gets resisted anyways.
Mahler of Titan TaruBrd75/Whm37,Rng75/Nin37 SanDoria Rank 10
Aspidochelone O
King Behemoth O
Nidhogg O
Kirin O
Tiamat O
Jormungand X 10% -.-
Aspidochelone O
King Behemoth O
Nidhogg O
Kirin O
Tiamat O
Jormungand X 10% -.-
Finale does get resisted.
+8 CHR is the most CHR you can get out of your weapon but that doesn't automatically make it the best weapon.
i'll take a Kraken Club and Genbu's Shield for my BRD over the Signa.
+8 CHR is always good but -5 VIT is not for a few things, including BCNM.
and yes for most people it's an obsession.
Edited, Wed Jun 9 12:00:16 2004 by Layoneil
+8 CHR is the most CHR you can get out of your weapon but that doesn't automatically make it the best weapon.
i'll take a Kraken Club and Genbu's Shield for my BRD over the Signa.
+8 CHR is always good but -5 VIT is not for a few things, including BCNM.
and yes for most people it's an obsession.
Edited, Wed Jun 9 12:00:16 2004 by Layoneil
Sendoh - Bahamut (AIM: Layoneil)
BRD|WHM|BLM|SMN|MNK|SAM|NIN|BST
BRD|WHM|BLM|SMN|MNK|SAM|NIN|BST
In 59 levels of exping as a bard, finale has been resisted exactly THREE times. So fine, you can be picky and say that it does. But three times in 59 levels (two of which were while helping someone get a coffer key on mobs that were WAY above my exp range, and only one of which was EVER while exping) isn't significant. And fine, if you can somehow acquire a kraken club, which has never even been sold on my server and which I have heard of going for 10 million on other servers, MAYBE it would be better, but still probably not, cause you ain't gonna get much melee time anyways at the levels at which you can use it. And the -5 vitality pretty much never matters while exping, and even in BCNM it doesn't matter much if you know what you are doing (of course I already had that argument in my Strat thread). So go ahead and be picky and point out how a spell might get resisted one out of every 300 times you use it, and how a virtually unaquirable club might be a better weapon. You don't really make any arguments that have any real relevance to 99.99% of bard situations, outside of the vitality, which doesn't really matter anyways, so you didn't exactly prove your "it's an obsession" point.
Mahler of Titan TaruBrd75/Whm37,Rng75/Nin37 SanDoria Rank 10
Aspidochelone O
King Behemoth O
Nidhogg O
Kirin O
Tiamat O
Jormungand X 10% -.-
Aspidochelone O
King Behemoth O
Nidhogg O
Kirin O
Tiamat O
Jormungand X 10% -.-
+4 Charisma points really isn't going to do much for you.
It is possible for bard to live w/o monster signa. So it is not a "MUST HAVE". BUT having monster signa will make you more popular and make your job slightly easier.
It is kind of similar thing w/ WHM's erase. You can be a WHM w/o erase. BUT it is good to have although some WHMs think it is not as useful as it should be and over priced.
Sometimes, I think it is a status thing. I feel good about little tarutaru when I equip the monster signa. (Vainity =P BUT you cannot blame a girl for wanting to look like a million bucks. well, about 1/3 of million.)
It is kind of similar thing w/ WHM's erase. You can be a WHM w/o erase. BUT it is good to have although some WHMs think it is not as useful as it should be and over priced.
Sometimes, I think it is a status thing. I feel good about little tarutaru when I equip the monster signa. (Vainity =P BUT you cannot blame a girl for wanting to look like a million bucks. well, about 1/3 of million.)
Level 48 BRD/43 WHM/22 BLM/15 THF/8 RNG/6 SMN/ 12 bst
Level 62 cooking/39 fishing/ 12 alchemy
Rank 5 Bastok (Don't know why I am there.... well, my friends started there.)
Tarutaru supermodel (for children fashion)
Level 62 cooking/39 fishing/ 12 alchemy
Rank 5 Bastok (Don't know why I am there.... well, my friends started there.)
Tarutaru supermodel (for children fashion)
Scholar
20 posts
A friend on my linkshell told me something I hadn't realized before.
The Monster Signa is the beastman's banner. (Look at the design on beastman banners and look at the design on the signa.)
It's the equivalent of stealing the other team's flag in capture-the-flag and running around waving it in their faces. If that isn't a huge morale boost for your team, I don't know what is. ^_^
The Monster Signa is the beastman's banner. (Look at the design on beastman banners and look at the design on the signa.)
It's the equivalent of stealing the other team's flag in capture-the-flag and running around waving it in their faces. If that isn't a huge morale boost for your team, I don't know what is. ^_^
Valefor Server
BRD55
Tarutaru Power!
BRD55
Tarutaru Power!
Hahaha, that's an interesting point. Now my little tarutaru definitely feels supperior w/ my monster signa on her back.
Y(^.^)Y
Y(^.^)Y
Level 48 BRD/43 WHM/22 BLM/15 THF/8 RNG/6 SMN/ 12 bst
Level 62 cooking/39 fishing/ 12 alchemy
Rank 5 Bastok (Don't know why I am there.... well, my friends started there.)
Tarutaru supermodel (for children fashion)
Level 62 cooking/39 fishing/ 12 alchemy
Rank 5 Bastok (Don't know why I am there.... well, my friends started there.)
Tarutaru supermodel (for children fashion)
Difference between Life and Death.
I'm a lvl51 brd. I have signa, but I don't always use it. Because I love to use the Dagger, that Energy steal is going to come in handy, I just can't wait!
However, I have a couple of personal experiences that makes me think that Signa is a must have for Bard.
1. BCNM. This of course has been debated to death. I've read many different post about whather or not need the signa for this fight. Everyone has thier own opinion. Here is my 2 gil. One BCNM outting, we did 4 rounds. 2 I used Signa, and the other 2 I didn't, so I can see if it really made that big of a difference. The result was, it does make a difference for me. Fight without signa, I noticed that more often 1 or 2 onions will wake up eariler then the rest compare to the times I did use the signa. (I have all the up to date charm gears (+1's where possible) So for this fight, I've always used the signa from then on.
2. Exp party. Normally I've always lvl'd my dagger. However, one time I was in a pt lvling off IT beatles (can't remember where), and another linked, so of course I was doing crowd control with sleep songs, however, it just wouldn't stick.. and we got wiped out. So in the same party, after we had all been raised, I added couple more lines into my sleep macro. That is to swap out my dagger for signa, and my hair pin (for MP) for Ribbon. We continued to pull beatles, this time a beatle pop'd near us and it of course decided to join this buddy. This time when I try to sleep it, it worked on the first try! Then I continued to sleep it until my party was ready for it, and sleep stuck every single time.
IMO, I don't always care about my offensive song not sticking on the first try, I'll continue to use my dagger because that's my weapon of choice. But having the signa would make a difference in a life and death situation when its time for you to do crowd control, and BCNM fights.
I'm a lvl51 brd. I have signa, but I don't always use it. Because I love to use the Dagger, that Energy steal is going to come in handy, I just can't wait!
However, I have a couple of personal experiences that makes me think that Signa is a must have for Bard.
1. BCNM. This of course has been debated to death. I've read many different post about whather or not need the signa for this fight. Everyone has thier own opinion. Here is my 2 gil. One BCNM outting, we did 4 rounds. 2 I used Signa, and the other 2 I didn't, so I can see if it really made that big of a difference. The result was, it does make a difference for me. Fight without signa, I noticed that more often 1 or 2 onions will wake up eariler then the rest compare to the times I did use the signa. (I have all the up to date charm gears (+1's where possible) So for this fight, I've always used the signa from then on.
2. Exp party. Normally I've always lvl'd my dagger. However, one time I was in a pt lvling off IT beatles (can't remember where), and another linked, so of course I was doing crowd control with sleep songs, however, it just wouldn't stick.. and we got wiped out. So in the same party, after we had all been raised, I added couple more lines into my sleep macro. That is to swap out my dagger for signa, and my hair pin (for MP) for Ribbon. We continued to pull beatles, this time a beatle pop'd near us and it of course decided to join this buddy. This time when I try to sleep it, it worked on the first try! Then I continued to sleep it until my party was ready for it, and sleep stuck every single time.
IMO, I don't always care about my offensive song not sticking on the first try, I'll continue to use my dagger because that's my weapon of choice. But having the signa would make a difference in a life and death situation when its time for you to do crowd control, and BCNM fights.
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14 posts
If you must have chr use AF1 dagger or a Shellbuster(<10k my server).
The +6 or +4 you gain with a Signa really isn't worth it imo. It is all an obsession.
The +6 or +4 you gain with a Signa really isn't worth it imo. It is all an obsession.
I'm a taru and my cha gear for BCNM is as follows:
2 pearl rings +4
Noble's Ribbon +3
Paper Knife +2
Corsette +1 +6 (!? Not quite sure on that one ATM)
Bird Whistle +3
I ate boiled crab. Rarely had resists, most of the time a mandie didn't sleep was because I got screwed up somehow and targeted a mandragora waaay off to the side for horde.
If you're a less charismatic race, the signa is probably a good idea.
As a taru though, I don't think it's necessary at all- with this gear and no + cha food I did fine. I might be worried about the -5 vit, as I did take a lot of hits, but even that probably doesn't matter too much. If anything I think a signa would probably be best for freeing up ring slots for +mp gear. But that's just an idea, no signa yet here.
If I start having problems getting resisted, I'll start wielding the almighty broom as well.
Until that time, I'll save my 300k and use my cute little knife instead.
2 pearl rings +4
Noble's Ribbon +3
Paper Knife +2
Corsette +1 +6 (!? Not quite sure on that one ATM)
Bird Whistle +3
I ate boiled crab. Rarely had resists, most of the time a mandie didn't sleep was because I got screwed up somehow and targeted a mandragora waaay off to the side for horde.
If you're a less charismatic race, the signa is probably a good idea.
As a taru though, I don't think it's necessary at all- with this gear and no + cha food I did fine. I might be worried about the -5 vit, as I did take a lot of hits, but even that probably doesn't matter too much. If anything I think a signa would probably be best for freeing up ring slots for +mp gear. But that's just an idea, no signa yet here.
If I start having problems getting resisted, I'll start wielding the almighty broom as well.
Until that time, I'll save my 300k and use my cute little knife instead.
Quote:
In 59 levels of exping as a bard, finale has been resisted exactly THREE times. So fine, you can be picky and say that it does. But three times in 59 levels
just had to ask, are you a 92 Bard, if you had finale for 59 levels? sorry, gramar-rentive, anywhose i know what you mean, i'm only kiddin' =)
Signa is a show peice, being in khazam i use it for fighting gobs, since i don't want to be in close, and pull out a dagger or sword for fighting mandy's, they don't hit hard enough for you to have to help cure all that much.
I'll always carry 3 weapons, signa dagger and sword, keeping weaponskills up to date probably helps in the long run. plus with madrigal being a song i use standard it realy helps the lower weaponskill you might have level up faster.
Demetrick, Bahamut 75NIN/75BST
Personal testing has shown to me that Signa is really a show piece for a bard. If you want a functional weapon, the best possible IMO is Apollo's Staff followed by Light Staff. Stat bonus aside there is a hidden 10% light magic bonus (15% i believe on Apollo). Yes this does apply to requiems, finales and lullabys. Does not seem to have any effect on grp buffs such as March or Dark Carol...still testing...
My bard setup weaponwise will eventually be earth staff, light staff and kard. Earth staff should ensure elegy always lands and it'll be a great weapon to switch to after sleep is cast in bcnm60 and xp pts.
My bard setup weaponwise will eventually be earth staff, light staff and kard. Earth staff should ensure elegy always lands and it'll be a great weapon to switch to after sleep is cast in bcnm60 and xp pts.
Lyric ~ Pandemonium Server ~ Impulse LS
75BRD/75BLM/75RNG/75NIN/75RDM/70WHM/62MNK/55THF/52BST
http://www.xanga.com/bardstale
75BRD/75BLM/75RNG/75NIN/75RDM/70WHM/62MNK/55THF/52BST
http://www.xanga.com/bardstale
/em dies...
Another signa thread...
T.T
Another signa thread...
T.T
Kaithalina
Bahamut 75 Mnk/56 War/65 Pld O=('_'Q)
Alamine
Bahamut 74 Bard/36 Whm/60 RDM
ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?55817
Bahamut 75 Mnk/56 War/65 Pld O=('_'Q)
Alamine
Bahamut 74 Bard/36 Whm/60 RDM
ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?55817
Quote:
so you didn't exactly prove your "it's an obsession" point.
i wasn't making a series of related statements to prove a point. i was making multiple statements in response to stuff that was said.
and the last statement was my opinion on the subject as a whole.
the "need" is highly exaggerated, that's why i think it's more of an obsession.
songs that can get resisted Elegy, Finale, Lullaby, Threnody, Requiem.
Signa gives you at times 3 (Kard) or 4 (Shellbuster) more points of CHR.
in XP situations the only one of those songs that NEED to be landed is Lullaby, which is less effective than someone using Sleep II.
in XP situations (above Lv 50). when Elegy and Threnody are noticeably resisted when i use Electrum Rings, i'd switch in Moon Rings and they are still pretty much resisted at the same rate. one level up and all the resists start to go away. so if +6 CHR isn't noticeably helping, than +4 isn't going to be a NEED.
is it a nice piece of equipment? sure it is
is it the "best" piece of equipment? i don't think so
is it a need? 4 CHR is never going to be a need, if 4 CHR is that crucial everyone should have Melody Earrings +1 (~250k each) and Allure Rings (impossible to purchase on my server).
and Kraken Club isn't purchased because no one sells it when it drops, you get it from actually hunting the NM. it's also not the only weapon i'd rather use than the Signa, Joyeuse, Kard, Wing Sword, Light Staff.
Sendoh - Bahamut (AIM: Layoneil)
BRD|WHM|BLM|SMN|MNK|SAM|NIN|BST
BRD|WHM|BLM|SMN|MNK|SAM|NIN|BST
"It is kind of similar thing w/ WHM's erase. You can be a WHM w/o erase. BUT it is good to have although some WHMs think it is not as useful as it should be and over priced."
These two are not comparable. Erase is, imho, one of those few spells that edges a white mage over a red mage in healing. Remove ANY status debuff on a party member? Sounds like a great spell to me.
Monster signa adds 4 points of charisma. 1, 2, 3, 4. I can drop or add 4 charisma points, and I honestly do not see a difference. So why else would you want to spend 400k on it? A.) You have excessive amounts of money, B.) Think 4 chr points is more important than the amount of +mp equips you could get with that much gil, or C.) Status. In this topic I see only B's and C's.
I can do fine on BCNM40's without this staff (Mithran btw), and sleep mobs if need be just as fine. The day I sell my Light Staff to buy a Monster Signa will be the day Humanity colonizes Mars.
These two are not comparable. Erase is, imho, one of those few spells that edges a white mage over a red mage in healing. Remove ANY status debuff on a party member? Sounds like a great spell to me.
Monster signa adds 4 points of charisma. 1, 2, 3, 4. I can drop or add 4 charisma points, and I honestly do not see a difference. So why else would you want to spend 400k on it? A.) You have excessive amounts of money, B.) Think 4 chr points is more important than the amount of +mp equips you could get with that much gil, or C.) Status. In this topic I see only B's and C's.
I can do fine on BCNM40's without this staff (Mithran btw), and sleep mobs if need be just as fine. The day I sell my Light Staff to buy a Monster Signa will be the day Humanity colonizes Mars.
I hate when people compare one good item to another, in referance to wether or not they should buy it. (i.e. If you want +4 CHR than buy so and so rings +1.) Well why not have those rings AND the signa. Just because you are too cheap to buy an item, dont dis it and act like its not the best thing you can buy.
Frankly if you are a good BRD you will buy ALL of your good equipment. Not skimp out on one item using the excuse that it doesnt make a diff. If anything it shows me that you take your job seriously as a BRD, and that you care about wether you are an asset to your Party.
I could use the excuse that the +accuracy items I have on my warrior dont make a diff. That dex would be just as good. Yet now at lvl 50 I have +40 acc. and trust me when I check my parser and see 100 hit% on about 75% of the mobs I fight.. its a HUGE diff.
To have a good item is not an obsession, and well if it is, than well I'm obsessed at actually doing my job well.
Frankly if you are a good BRD you will buy ALL of your good equipment. Not skimp out on one item using the excuse that it doesnt make a diff. If anything it shows me that you take your job seriously as a BRD, and that you care about wether you are an asset to your Party.
I could use the excuse that the +accuracy items I have on my warrior dont make a diff. That dex would be just as good. Yet now at lvl 50 I have +40 acc. and trust me when I check my parser and see 100 hit% on about 75% of the mobs I fight.. its a HUGE diff.
To have a good item is not an obsession, and well if it is, than well I'm obsessed at actually doing my job well.
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[Lockecowe] (70 Warrior)- Infinitum Nihil
Kil'Jaeden Server. 375 Mining/373 Blacksmithing/Master Swordsmith
~FFXI~
Welcome to Siren Server!
[Lockecole] 75WAR - 75NIN - 75THF - 75BRD - 75DRK - Retired ATM.
[InfinitumNihil] www.infinitumls.com R.I.P.
Nope, you're thinking about it the wrong way. You compare items to min-max. You, as a player, have a limited supply of resources (gil and time). Your goal is to maximize your efficiency with those resources.
So the question becomes- are the additional resource cost of a signa (the price of a signa-the price of a shellbuster or th time it would take to camp it) worth the additional effectiveness, or would another purchace/camp or combo of purchaces/camps be more effective? That is the question you need to be asking, not pure effectiveness. If you aren't, you're worse than not a good bard, you aren't a good player. This is the question that will maximize your effectiveness both as a party member and as an individual player, not worrying about what's the absolute best.
So the question becomes- are the additional resource cost of a signa (the price of a signa-the price of a shellbuster or th time it would take to camp it) worth the additional effectiveness, or would another purchace/camp or combo of purchaces/camps be more effective? That is the question you need to be asking, not pure effectiveness. If you aren't, you're worse than not a good bard, you aren't a good player. This is the question that will maximize your effectiveness both as a party member and as an individual player, not worrying about what's the absolute best.
Logangrim, the Monster Signa is a great item. And yet, it's not worth 400k. Sure, if we all sacrifice 12 hours a day to FFXI through farming or camping we might buy every single effective item, but for most of us, this isn't possible. I don't need to do this to let people know I take my job seriously, they know I take my job seriously because I do what I can for my party. And in my opinion, Monster Signa is not the best equip for a bard in any case.
Quote:
I hate when people compare one good item to another, in referance to wether or not they should buy it. (i.e. If you want +4 CHR than buy so and so rings +1.) Well why not have those rings AND the signa. Just because you are too cheap to buy an item, dont dis it and act like its not the best thing you can buy.
Frankly if you are a good BRD you will buy ALL of your good equipment. Not skimp out on one item using the excuse that it doesnt make a diff. If anything it shows me that you take your job seriously as a BRD, and that you care about wether you are an asset to your Party.
I could use the excuse that the +accuracy items I have on my warrior dont make a diff. That dex would be just as good. Yet now at lvl 50 I have +40 acc. and trust me when I check my parser and see 100 hit% on about 75% of the mobs I fight.. its a HUGE diff.
To have a good item is not an obsession, and well if it is, than well I'm obsessed at actually doing my job well.
Frankly if you are a good BRD you will buy ALL of your good equipment. Not skimp out on one item using the excuse that it doesnt make a diff. If anything it shows me that you take your job seriously as a BRD, and that you care about wether you are an asset to your Party.
I could use the excuse that the +accuracy items I have on my warrior dont make a diff. That dex would be just as good. Yet now at lvl 50 I have +40 acc. and trust me when I check my parser and see 100 hit% on about 75% of the mobs I fight.. its a HUGE diff.
To have a good item is not an obsession, and well if it is, than well I'm obsessed at actually doing my job well.
if your EQ is the stuff in your profile than you're wrong.
difference between 2 Sniper's Ring and 2 Sniper's Ring +1 is 4 ACC. that's a fair comparison between Shellbuster and Monster signa which is 4 CHR. so what made you feel like you can level up pass 40 with ONLY Sniper's Ring when you can have Sniper's Ring +1? that's the same reason why some of us CHOOSE not to get the Monster signa.
Quote:
see 100 hit% on about 75% of the mobs I fight
doesn't there get to be a point where the cost of extra stats doesn't make a noticeable difference, or where the difference is not worth it all?
couldn't you be doing your job even better if you're hitting 100% on 85-90% of the mobs you fight? or hitting harder per mob?
where's your Viking Shield, Peacock Charm? that would be obsession.
and you assume we don't do our jobs well, which is a load of bull crap.
Sendoh - Bahamut (AIM: Layoneil)
BRD|WHM|BLM|SMN|MNK|SAM|NIN|BST
BRD|WHM|BLM|SMN|MNK|SAM|NIN|BST
I think this whole thing is because bards all subconsciously fear and hate each other.
Bards in parties... there can be only one!
Thus, we kill each other.
On forums.
I dunno, it's an idea.
Bards in parties... there can be only one!
Thus, we kill each other.
On forums.
I dunno, it's an idea.
Quote:
I think this whole thing is because bards all subconsciously fear and hate each other.
LOL agreed. In my search i put:
CHR 30(?)+23 Umai!
|monster signa| <--translated
Theres a bard my except race, job, rank, and ive found him looking for parties after i've been invited, btw he has a whoppin +1chr when i saw him around.
Edit, and btw i have a subconscious desire to out bard him ^^
Edited, Mon Jun 14 19:52:23 2004 by Demetrick
Demetrick, Bahamut 75NIN/75BST
lol i conciouslly want to out-bard every other bard i run into heheh. I'm a snob and check out their equipment. one time i was in a pt and the leader said "how about another bard?" i almost left right there hehe
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