The more I level other jobs after bst, the more and more I realize how bst main becomes less and less usefull compared to bst sub. Like at ouryu me coming as brd/bst is much more efficient than bst main. Also, being that the charmrates are about the same, does that kill bst main at 75? Does bst main only become the best subjob for soloing at 75. I know that is kinda pessimistic, but when I can solo as rdm/bst or nin/bst far easier than bst main endgame, it makes me wonder why should I use my bst. If anyone has some input to this pls add. don't flame me for being a bst hater, I leveled bst to 75, and Im just finding it being more beneficially used as a subjob than a main job.
Edited, Nov 7th 2006 at 10:51am PST by Ewonian
- Forums
- FFXI Jobs
- Beastmaster
- /bst instead of bst
/bst instead of bstFollow
Because we have a lot of Chr and have access to more Bst equips that enhance charm, reward, and call beast. The last of which it Bst main onry. Though if you ask me, I do tihnk it's pretty shiesty that a Rdm/Bst is as good as Bst main. Most job defining abilities take a penalty when they're subbed too -.-;; Thf, Sam, Drg, Nin, Drk, Mnk, Cor, Brd, etc.
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Samsara, Supremes, and BaronsRedWings
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Samsara, Supremes, and BaronsRedWings
Well, if the statement is true that you charm at the level of your BST, then it's beneficial to level BST to 75 anyway, even if you don't use it as your main job.
As for whether or not it is useful to keep as a main, I am not there, but I can guess that it would still be useful to solo merit with. Assuming you're going as BST/WHM, you get all the utilities of the White Mage sub to reduce downtime that you don't get if you use BST as your sub. If you go as a WHM/BST, for example, your gear is going to suck compared to a BST main. =)
*edit: Personally, I am glad that the usefulness of BST is preserved as a subjob. It just means I can take advantage of my hard work once I level another job.
Edited, Nov 7th 2006 at 11:01am PST by Gomek
As for whether or not it is useful to keep as a main, I am not there, but I can guess that it would still be useful to solo merit with. Assuming you're going as BST/WHM, you get all the utilities of the White Mage sub to reduce downtime that you don't get if you use BST as your sub. If you go as a WHM/BST, for example, your gear is going to suck compared to a BST main. =)
*edit: Personally, I am glad that the usefulness of BST is preserved as a subjob. It just means I can take advantage of my hard work once I level another job.
Edited, Nov 7th 2006 at 11:01am PST by Gomek
Someone needs to sticky this info:
Beastmaster's actual level affects your charm success rates while /bst. This has been tested using Charm success rates on EM-DC mobs and the results of the Gauge command using the same gear on the same main jobs and different beastmaster levels on the subjob.
Charm duration is affected by +charm gear (I think all of that is bst only) & current job level.
The only confusion comes from people doing testing on really low level mobs when they have 120+ total chr and discovering that a level 30 bst with 120 chr charms bunnies in Ronfaure just as well as a 75 bst with 120 chr.
Beastmaster's actual level affects your charm success rates while /bst. This has been tested using Charm success rates on EM-DC mobs and the results of the Gauge command using the same gear on the same main jobs and different beastmaster levels on the subjob.
Charm duration is affected by +charm gear (I think all of that is bst only) & current job level.
The only confusion comes from people doing testing on really low level mobs when they have 120+ total chr and discovering that a level 30 bst with 120 chr charms bunnies in Ronfaure just as well as a 75 bst with 120 chr.
Tordall - BC:100+3 LC:60+1 AL:60+1 WW:60 CO:60 CC:60 BS:60 GS:60 Fish:91
Sugared - CO:100+3 WW:15
Kinarii - AL: 87+2 BS:14 GS:1
Sugared - CO:100+3 WW:15
Kinarii - AL: 87+2 BS:14 GS:1
Quote:
Someone needs to sticky this info:
This is true.
i started soloing rdm/bst at lvl 55 in GC, i duoed some at 54 in GC as well. It is pretty easy, most of the time i could take out a high T or VT with only one dc/em pet. with rdm i sic pet, enfeeb everything, and then nuke as needed. the main prob is that it is not very fast, compared to xp party. still averaged about the same as bst 2-3k an hr. i havent used /bst as much, just when i cant get an invite. GL
Also it is a nice break from the haste, refresh, etc..
Faik
Valefor
Also it is a nice break from the haste, refresh, etc..
Faik
Valefor
Faik
Valefor
75 BST/RDM/BLM
Valefor
75 BST/RDM/BLM
I think the OP's point was that if you have bst at 75ish (useful as a subjob to another level 75 job), then it's sometimes more useful to go Whm/bst, Rdm/bst, Brd/Bst, Nin/bst etc than to go as Bst/whm, bst/rdm, bst/nin etc.
Reason is that if you're mainjob/bst, then you've got all the potency of the main job + you can chuck pets at the big NM while doing your other job.
This is true. With multiple jobs at 75, I only use Bst main if I'm after +charm gear (for duration) or if I need access to jug pets (BCNMs, ENMs, KSNMs etc.).
Reason is that if you're mainjob/bst, then you've got all the potency of the main job + you can chuck pets at the big NM while doing your other job.
This is true. With multiple jobs at 75, I only use Bst main if I'm after +charm gear (for duration) or if I need access to jug pets (BCNMs, ENMs, KSNMs etc.).
Tordall - BC:100+3 LC:60+1 AL:60+1 WW:60 CO:60 CC:60 BS:60 GS:60 Fish:91
Sugared - CO:100+3 WW:15
Kinarii - AL: 87+2 BS:14 GS:1
Sugared - CO:100+3 WW:15
Kinarii - AL: 87+2 BS:14 GS:1
Quote:
Most job defining abilities take a penalty when they're subbed too -.-;; Thf, Sam, Drg, Nin, Drk, Mnk, Cor, Brd, etc.
Quote:
If you go as a WHM/BST, for example, your gear is going to suck compared to a BST main.
Quote:
I think the OP's point was that if you have bst at 75ish (useful as a subjob to another level 75 job), then it's sometimes more useful to go Whm/bst, Rdm/bst, Brd/Bst, Nin/bst etc than to go as Bst/whm, bst/rdm, bst/nin etc.
I hope they don't ever nerf /bst but at the same time I wish there was something to make my BST main as good as my RDM/BST. (both are 75)
So.. /bst is useless unless you actually level bst itself to 75?
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Ewonian wrote:
I know that is kinda pessimistic, but when I can solo as rdm/bst or nin/bst far easier than bst main endgame, it makes me wonder why should I use my bst. If anyone has some input to this pls add. don't flame me for being a bst hater, I leveled bst to 75, and Im just finding it being more beneficially used as a subjob than a main job.
At lvl 75, there are two abilities that separate BST main from /BST:
1) Call Beast. For solo xp purposes, this ability has limited value. However, it becomes a tremendous advantage in areas where there are no useful charmable mobs. Also, a jug pet's unusually high attack really shines when helping out with lower level tasks (AF and such). In fact, in lower level areas your jug turns you into an unparalleled damage dealer capable of wiping out hordes of mobs with sheer brute force. Then there are missions, bcnms, enms, blah blah blah.
2) Familiar. This seldom used ability is actually one of my favorites. That SE has granted us the power to charm, hold, and control an incredibly tough mob for 30 minutes seems to go against their usual procedure. Then again, we seldom use it. Heheh.
Nevertheless, in the right zone, we can increase our power ten-fold. Depending on the situation, we can harness the might of some powerful creatures that can single handedly wipe out an entire normal party.
These two abilities, by themselves, make for a pretty useful package... depending on the situation. There are times that an entire alliance can find themselves relying on the abilities of the one BST thats tagging along.
In addition, there is a third advantage that should probably be mentioned. BSTs do extremely well when partied with other BSTs. While a BST by itself can be quite formidable. A BST party can be absolutely devastating. One of the most disappointing aspects I've found with the endgame is that the endgame linkshell communities usually only have around one or two BSTs.
While I applaud the recognition for the benefits of having a single BST in the picture, it seems people overlook the adavantage of having a BST team backing them up. Though, there is one endgame BST LS that's doing some really fun stuff. :)
(f;,,;)f (/o.o)/
One time I was partying with a friend on my RDM, and had to go. We were in Boyahda Tree, at that pond camp with the flies. They got a replacement, a RDM/BST. When he came to camp, he had one of those black mandies as a pet.
It was awesome to watch, while I was resting my mp (I rest to full MP before I logout). I was jealous. I really wanted to level BST to 75 after that.
It was awesome to watch, while I was resting my mp (I rest to full MP before I logout). I was jealous. I really wanted to level BST to 75 after that.
~~ 75RDM / 72THF / 67NIN / 51 BRD ~~
~~ 50WHM / 50 RNG / 46WAR / 46BLM ~~
-- 100+3 Goldsmithing / 60 Cooking / 60Smithing --
>> Rank 7 <<
*** Liabelle - Lv65 { Fierce Attacker } [T.M. 3/3] ***
{sky}: O | {Lufaise Meadows}: O | {sea}: O
{Aht Urghan}: O
¤Atropos, ¤RedDragonMilitia
~~ 50WHM / 50 RNG / 46WAR / 46BLM ~~
-- 100+3 Goldsmithing / 60 Cooking / 60Smithing --
>> Rank 7 <<
*** Liabelle - Lv65 { Fierce Attacker } [T.M. 3/3] ***
{sky}: O | {Lufaise Meadows}: O | {sea}: O
{Aht Urghan}: O
¤Atropos, ¤RedDragonMilitia
I look at it this way:
BST main is a strong soloing job. (duh)
Also, Redmage and ninja are strong soloing jobs, but when you can sub bst, and still have a majority of it's beneficial abilities. I.E. Charm/Release/Sic. You now have twice the soloing ability, twice the damage output, and now a more powerful pseudo bst. And from this I've heard tales of people leveling rng/bst to whm/bst, and no matter what, if the main job has some way of getting hp or mp back, bloody bolts/regen,refresh spells and armor, then the job can effectively solo with /bst, and typically at a faster rate. As bst/nin I could pull off a chain3 max on elder goobbue (maybe got a 4 when I was lucky). Rdm/bst can almost pull of chain 5's solo endgame at the same camp. It's something to think about.
Also, does this mean that S.E. should make bst main stronger? and in what ways?
Edited, Nov 7th 2006 at 9:34pm PST by Ewonian
BST main is a strong soloing job. (duh)
Also, Redmage and ninja are strong soloing jobs, but when you can sub bst, and still have a majority of it's beneficial abilities. I.E. Charm/Release/Sic. You now have twice the soloing ability, twice the damage output, and now a more powerful pseudo bst. And from this I've heard tales of people leveling rng/bst to whm/bst, and no matter what, if the main job has some way of getting hp or mp back, bloody bolts/regen,refresh spells and armor, then the job can effectively solo with /bst, and typically at a faster rate. As bst/nin I could pull off a chain3 max on elder goobbue (maybe got a 4 when I was lucky). Rdm/bst can almost pull of chain 5's solo endgame at the same camp. It's something to think about.
Also, does this mean that S.E. should make bst main stronger? and in what ways?
Edited, Nov 7th 2006 at 9:34pm PST by Ewonian
What ev
75@stuff lol
75@stuff lol
Quote:
At lvl 75, there are two abilities that separate BST main from /BST:
1) Call Beast. For solo xp purposes, this ability has limited value. However, it becomes a tremendous advantage in areas where there are no useful charmable mobs. Also, a jug pet's unusually high attack really shines when helping out with lower level tasks (AF and such). In fact, in lower level areas your jug turns you into an unparalleled damage dealer capable of wiping out hordes of mobs with sheer brute force. Then there are missions, bcnms, enms, blah blah blah.
2) Familiar. This seldom used ability is actually one of my favorites. That SE has granted us the power to charm, hold, and control an incredibly tough mob for 30 minutes seems to go against their usual procedure. Then again, we seldom use it. Heheh.
Nevertheless, in the right zone, we can increase our power ten-fold. Depending on the situation, we can harness the might of some powerful creatures that can single handedly wipe out an entire normal party.
1) Call Beast. For solo xp purposes, this ability has limited value. However, it becomes a tremendous advantage in areas where there are no useful charmable mobs. Also, a jug pet's unusually high attack really shines when helping out with lower level tasks (AF and such). In fact, in lower level areas your jug turns you into an unparalleled damage dealer capable of wiping out hordes of mobs with sheer brute force. Then there are missions, bcnms, enms, blah blah blah.
2) Familiar. This seldom used ability is actually one of my favorites. That SE has granted us the power to charm, hold, and control an incredibly tough mob for 30 minutes seems to go against their usual procedure. Then again, we seldom use it. Heheh.
Nevertheless, in the right zone, we can increase our power ten-fold. Depending on the situation, we can harness the might of some powerful creatures that can single handedly wipe out an entire normal party.
I levelled Ninja solely as /BST, and I can tell you, I have sorely missed both of these abilities. Whenever I go out to solo something, I will likely still go out as BST and not NIN/BST. Plus, Nin has a lower Base CHR, so my charm rate is probably still slightly better on BST. combine that with the charm + on my BST AF/Relic, and I'll take that solo over NIN/BST any day.
Firedevil - Siren Server
Lvl 75 BST/NIN/DRK/RDM/BLM/THF, 51 PLD, 37 WAR/WHM/SAM/DNC/DRG/MNK
Cooking 100+3
Devilsslave: Leather: 100+3, Bone/Cloth/Smithing/Gold/Alchemy: 60+1
Eddievedder: 75 THF/RNG, 47 RDM Cloth: 90.4+3 Bone: 60 Leather: 53 Smithing: 58 Gold 21.8
Lvl 75 BST/NIN/DRK/RDM/BLM/THF, 51 PLD, 37 WAR/WHM/SAM/DNC/DRG/MNK
Cooking 100+3
Devilsslave: Leather: 100+3, Bone/Cloth/Smithing/Gold/Alchemy: 60+1
Eddievedder: 75 THF/RNG, 47 RDM Cloth: 90.4+3 Bone: 60 Leather: 53 Smithing: 58 Gold 21.8
Well, barring that the /BST thing is or isn't true, and there will be no stickying until better proof is brought forth, but...yes, as Gutspraygore pointed out:Familiar is a sick 2hr with you can bring a level 85 pet to a fight, with 5-6K of HP, and defense and attack out the wazoo, plus being completely expendable. When the situation permits, it's prolly the best 2hr available, given duration and effect.
Also, to add onto Gutspraygore other point:BST main is the only job that can use Jug Pets, can merit Beast Affinity, and can wear Monster Gloves to essentially bring any 65 cap monster as close to 75 as possible. It's realistically more like level 73 with +3 Affinity and Monster Gloves, but having SaberSirvarde, White Mandy and FunguarFamiliar available as effective jugs as 75 is priceless.
The other thing is that BST doesn't have to sub /BST to Charm. Much like how all jobs sub /WAR to be WARs, BST has the advantage of being able to slap on any subjob they want, because BST main already gets the benefit of BST. Slap on /WHM with MP merits and MP gear to be a strong, self-reliant second healer, /NIN for Dual Wield and personal safety, or /WAR for Berserk and Double Attack. Would add in /THF and /SAM, but meh, Scythe without 300% TP...
Also, to add onto Gutspraygore other point:BST main is the only job that can use Jug Pets, can merit Beast Affinity, and can wear Monster Gloves to essentially bring any 65 cap monster as close to 75 as possible. It's realistically more like level 73 with +3 Affinity and Monster Gloves, but having SaberSirvarde, White Mandy and FunguarFamiliar available as effective jugs as 75 is priceless.
The other thing is that BST doesn't have to sub /BST to Charm. Much like how all jobs sub /WAR to be WARs, BST has the advantage of being able to slap on any subjob they want, because BST main already gets the benefit of BST. Slap on /WHM with MP merits and MP gear to be a strong, self-reliant second healer, /NIN for Dual Wield and personal safety, or /WAR for Berserk and Double Attack. Would add in /THF and /SAM, but meh, Scythe without 300% TP...
Come into the sand, and the dust, and the sky
Go now, there's no better plan, than to do or to die
Free me, pray to the faith in the face of the light
Feed me, fill me with sin, and get ready to fight
Snooochie wrote, concerning BST forums:
Go now, there's no better plan, than to do or to die
Free me, pray to the faith in the face of the light
Feed me, fill me with sin, and get ready to fight
Snooochie wrote, concerning BST forums:
Quote:
This forum used to be all about "How can we overcome this?" Now it seems to be all about "How can someone else fix this for me?"
Quote:
combine that with the charm + on my BST AF/Relic, and I'll take that solo over NIN/BST any day.
Quote:
The other thing is that BST doesn't have to sub /BST to Charm. Much like how all jobs sub /WAR to be WARs, BST has the advantage of being able to slap on any subjob they want, because BST main already gets the benefit of BST. Slap on /WHM with MP merits and MP gear to be a strong, self-reliant second healer, /NIN for Dual Wield and personal safety, or /WAR for Berserk and Double Attack. Would add in /THF and /SAM, but meh, Scythe without 300% TP...
Erase, Curaga, Curaga II, Blindna, Cursna, Paralyna, Viruna, Silena. You know, stuff that helps take large loads off of your healers while you still melee harder then any RDM, and still bust out 75 pets.
Psst...people still do things in groups...don't tell anyone ^>.>^ The WoWers on FFXI might get angry.
Psst...people still do things in groups...don't tell anyone ^>.>^ The WoWers on FFXI might get angry.
Come into the sand, and the dust, and the sky
Go now, there's no better plan, than to do or to die
Free me, pray to the faith in the face of the light
Feed me, fill me with sin, and get ready to fight
Snooochie wrote, concerning BST forums:
Go now, there's no better plan, than to do or to die
Free me, pray to the faith in the face of the light
Feed me, fill me with sin, and get ready to fight
Snooochie wrote, concerning BST forums:
Quote:
This forum used to be all about "How can we overcome this?" Now it seems to be all about "How can someone else fix this for me?"
Quote:
Well, barring that the /BST thing is or isn't true,
It's true, it's been commony accepted and well tested for years now. The only reason that people don't want to believe it is b/c they don't want to have to level bst to 75 to use it as a subjob at 75. That and the people that care already have bst at 75 and can't test it themselves.
You don't actually have to have bst at 75 to use it as a subjob. You just have to know that you're charm success rate is going to be pretty poor on EM-DC mobs.
I was one of the people that leveled beastmaster as a subjob (yes, all the way to 75), and did periodic testing as bard/bst on different mobs using the same gear (only beastmaster main level changed). Not only would the gauge command yeild different results, but the charm rates would be substantially different.
Everyone else that has leveled beastmaster as their 2nd job, and has actually bothered to do simliar tests, reports the same thing.
I really don't know what better proof you need.
Tordall - BC:100+3 LC:60+1 AL:60+1 WW:60 CO:60 CC:60 BS:60 GS:60 Fish:91
Sugared - CO:100+3 WW:15
Kinarii - AL: 87+2 BS:14 GS:1
Sugared - CO:100+3 WW:15
Kinarii - AL: 87+2 BS:14 GS:1
Quote:
Erase, Curaga, Curaga II, Blindna, Cursna, Paralyna, Viruna, Silena. You know, stuff that helps take large loads off of your healers while you still melee harder then any RDM, and still bust out 75 pets.
Psst...people still do things in groups...don't tell anyone ^>.>^ The WoWers on FFXI might get angry.
Psst...people still do things in groups...don't tell anyone ^>.>^ The WoWers on FFXI might get angry.
If you're talking party, what kind, quest or exp? Quest-party I could see you using /WHM, but still if I take the BST for a walk I sub melee and DD.
If you have to /WHM for exp then you need to rethink your party setup, with the exception of BST parties. Only a few exp mobs hit you with disease, and curse, and most people bring thier own echo drops so you're only looking at benefiting from blindna and paralyzna...and even then I think a WHM can handle it.
Not gonna argue BST/WHM vs. BST/RDM in solo XP, because that's variable to personal choice. However, in a XP party I would likely sub /NIN if I had Haste/Suppa/Juggernaut, or /WAR if I didn't.
In Dynamis, /NIN for AoE and direct-line TP move mobs, /WAR for other Dynamis where self-defense isn't a issue, and you don't have a strong /NIN setup.
/WHM on HNMs, Land Kings, Sky, pop HNMs, and any creature where BST's lack of personal offense puts you in a more beneficial position as support while your pet keeps working the mob over. That's most things in sea and sky, especially the kited mobs. You might not even be in the alliance, anyhow. BST doesn't bring a whole lot to the table in this regard, without pure petzerg.
In Dynamis, /NIN for AoE and direct-line TP move mobs, /WAR for other Dynamis where self-defense isn't a issue, and you don't have a strong /NIN setup.
/WHM on HNMs, Land Kings, Sky, pop HNMs, and any creature where BST's lack of personal offense puts you in a more beneficial position as support while your pet keeps working the mob over. That's most things in sea and sky, especially the kited mobs. You might not even be in the alliance, anyhow. BST doesn't bring a whole lot to the table in this regard, without pure petzerg.
Come into the sand, and the dust, and the sky
Go now, there's no better plan, than to do or to die
Free me, pray to the faith in the face of the light
Feed me, fill me with sin, and get ready to fight
Snooochie wrote, concerning BST forums:
Go now, there's no better plan, than to do or to die
Free me, pray to the faith in the face of the light
Feed me, fill me with sin, and get ready to fight
Snooochie wrote, concerning BST forums:
Quote:
This forum used to be all about "How can we overcome this?" Now it seems to be all about "How can someone else fix this for me?"
I just got my RDM to 70, and decided to check out the Colibri camp in Bhaf thickets. I was going a LOT faster than I did on BST, and even on BST I was getting over 5k/hr in that camp. On RDM, I was hitting chain 5 without breaking a sweat. And these are mobs that you CANT enfeeble to make the fight quicker. Melee gear + Joyeuse + Enspell + full strength buffs, me and my pet were just destroying the colibris.
Its lucky that Leave is level 35, or I would be soloing more than partying. I just couldnt stand doing more soloing without leave though, which is why you wont ever see me leveling nin/bst.
Now that I have WHM at 75, and even moreso when I have RDM at 75, I dont see myself ever using my actual BST. RDM/BST is just so much more flexible and strong for everything I do on BST. Why would I go kite corses at Tiamat on BST, when I can go RDM/BST with full buffs, gravity, bind, the ability to jump into main and be useful, the ability to babysit elementals too...
I am both glad and sad that with 75bst any other job can get 95% usage from the job. I am glad, because I know how strong it is, and I know that anyone who has the power to do it went through the same ordeal as I did to get 75bst. I am sad, because I really dont have any reason to use the actual job now that it is 75.
Edit: As for it being true, it is unequivocally true. Someone recently did a test (and I think it was alla where it was posted) where two otherwise identical mithras did a gauge test. One was 75brd/37bst with only 37bst main, the other was 75brd/37bst with 75bst main. They were otherwise naked with identical charisma. The one with 75bst main got should be able to charm, while the 37bst got might be able to charm.
Edited, Nov 9th 2006 at 5:01pm PST by Delekii
Its lucky that Leave is level 35, or I would be soloing more than partying. I just couldnt stand doing more soloing without leave though, which is why you wont ever see me leveling nin/bst.
Now that I have WHM at 75, and even moreso when I have RDM at 75, I dont see myself ever using my actual BST. RDM/BST is just so much more flexible and strong for everything I do on BST. Why would I go kite corses at Tiamat on BST, when I can go RDM/BST with full buffs, gravity, bind, the ability to jump into main and be useful, the ability to babysit elementals too...
I am both glad and sad that with 75bst any other job can get 95% usage from the job. I am glad, because I know how strong it is, and I know that anyone who has the power to do it went through the same ordeal as I did to get 75bst. I am sad, because I really dont have any reason to use the actual job now that it is 75.
Edit: As for it being true, it is unequivocally true. Someone recently did a test (and I think it was alla where it was posted) where two otherwise identical mithras did a gauge test. One was 75brd/37bst with only 37bst main, the other was 75brd/37bst with 75bst main. They were otherwise naked with identical charisma. The one with 75bst main got should be able to charm, while the 37bst got might be able to charm.
Edited, Nov 9th 2006 at 5:01pm PST by Delekii
BRD75 | BLM75 | WHM75 | COR75 | BST75 | RDM75 | BLU75
I have had my bst at 75 for a pretty long time and also got my whm to 75 for a pretty long time now too.
For awhile I was entrhaled that whm/bst was so much freakin stronger than bst/whm..
However, recently I have been coming to terms that although, whm/bst is more likely to live through a tough fight and has soooo many more tricks up its sleeve, you WILL begin to notice a very large difference between a very well geared bst/nin and a well geared whm/bst. This is especialy true if you intend to do big number merit soloing in the new areas.. The new areas are the hardcore bst solo camps at level 75 and you practicaly need to rethink how you play just to make them work..
A very well geared bst/nin in the right hands WILL allways outdamage any mage/bst as far as I can tell. Your damage out put has to be pushed to the limits because of hilltrols high evasion and the insanely nasty AOEs and charm resistent pets of these super hard camps. You need your bst to be in tip top shape and you WILL begin to see just why your bst main is still better than when you sub it when you try these insanely tough camps.
As much as people like to say that bst main is not worthwhile compared to other jobs such as nin rdm whm when subbing bst you will practicaly run into a brick wall when you actualy attempted to do super hardcore bst TOAU camps..
My whm/bst has a stupid amount of chr compared to my bst main yet the really good TOAU camps my bst main gauges mobs for better charm rates over my whm.
My whm has 70 +52 chr right now with apolo's staff and is basicaly unable to charm a clot in Mount Zhayolm with any kind of effeciency.. my bst main has 68 +41 chr and there is HUGE difference in charm rate with my bst main vs my whm/bst.
When I do these camps such as clots vs hilltrols solo I have FULL out damage dealing melee gear on bst/nin. Accuracy build using the best meat available. Sometimes I would use ambrosia if I have some available because 41 chr BARELY cuts it in these camps I imagine that I need to really get my act together and increase my chr as much as I can to make charming easier on clots. For example Kirin's Osedo might be a absolutly must have item for a bst who wants to truely do some of these camps at much lower risk of death.
Another hardcore camp is located in Aydeewa Subterrane using even match HIGHLY charm resistent cave tigers vs tough cave tigers and tough HP regening bad breath using great Ameretats. This camp I consider to be the easiest of the hardcore end game camps yet it is very rewarding too. Even still the desparity between my chr heavy whm/bsts charm accuracy from my bst/nins quickly becomes painfully clear... And when every bit of damage is the difference between life and death you just cant ***** around with low damage high delay clubs..
A single clot can take down a hilltoll solo but you need to constantly be on your toes. You NEED to be able to not only hit the damn trols you need to make your quata in damage like nothing else. you also need to mitigate hate at break neck speeds if you get attention. (Currently I litteraly need a full suit of crow macroed in and if things get really bad ill pop a charge on my pacifist ring)
I love my whm/bst but I would be very careful to put down bst main in light of the types of end game bst solo camps in the new areas. my well geared whm/bst is sweet for some things.. my well gear bst/nin is better for others. One does not fully trump the other and playing in these new hardcore camps has instilled a new greater love of bst main for me. Im yet again like a level 1 bst attempting to make things work in a new and very challenging world.
For awhile I was entrhaled that whm/bst was so much freakin stronger than bst/whm..
However, recently I have been coming to terms that although, whm/bst is more likely to live through a tough fight and has soooo many more tricks up its sleeve, you WILL begin to notice a very large difference between a very well geared bst/nin and a well geared whm/bst. This is especialy true if you intend to do big number merit soloing in the new areas.. The new areas are the hardcore bst solo camps at level 75 and you practicaly need to rethink how you play just to make them work..
A very well geared bst/nin in the right hands WILL allways outdamage any mage/bst as far as I can tell. Your damage out put has to be pushed to the limits because of hilltrols high evasion and the insanely nasty AOEs and charm resistent pets of these super hard camps. You need your bst to be in tip top shape and you WILL begin to see just why your bst main is still better than when you sub it when you try these insanely tough camps.
As much as people like to say that bst main is not worthwhile compared to other jobs such as nin rdm whm when subbing bst you will practicaly run into a brick wall when you actualy attempted to do super hardcore bst TOAU camps..
My whm/bst has a stupid amount of chr compared to my bst main yet the really good TOAU camps my bst main gauges mobs for better charm rates over my whm.
My whm has 70 +52 chr right now with apolo's staff and is basicaly unable to charm a clot in Mount Zhayolm with any kind of effeciency.. my bst main has 68 +41 chr and there is HUGE difference in charm rate with my bst main vs my whm/bst.
When I do these camps such as clots vs hilltrols solo I have FULL out damage dealing melee gear on bst/nin. Accuracy build using the best meat available. Sometimes I would use ambrosia if I have some available because 41 chr BARELY cuts it in these camps I imagine that I need to really get my act together and increase my chr as much as I can to make charming easier on clots. For example Kirin's Osedo might be a absolutly must have item for a bst who wants to truely do some of these camps at much lower risk of death.
Another hardcore camp is located in Aydeewa Subterrane using even match HIGHLY charm resistent cave tigers vs tough cave tigers and tough HP regening bad breath using great Ameretats. This camp I consider to be the easiest of the hardcore end game camps yet it is very rewarding too. Even still the desparity between my chr heavy whm/bsts charm accuracy from my bst/nins quickly becomes painfully clear... And when every bit of damage is the difference between life and death you just cant ***** around with low damage high delay clubs..
A single clot can take down a hilltoll solo but you need to constantly be on your toes. You NEED to be able to not only hit the damn trols you need to make your quata in damage like nothing else. you also need to mitigate hate at break neck speeds if you get attention. (Currently I litteraly need a full suit of crow macroed in and if things get really bad ill pop a charge on my pacifist ring)
I love my whm/bst but I would be very careful to put down bst main in light of the types of end game bst solo camps in the new areas. my well geared whm/bst is sweet for some things.. my well gear bst/nin is better for others. One does not fully trump the other and playing in these new hardcore camps has instilled a new greater love of bst main for me. Im yet again like a level 1 bst attempting to make things work in a new and very challenging world.
I guess this is the non-bst coming out in me, but I never feel the urge to xp ("hardcore" or otherwise on my 75bst, when I can flag up on brd and get xp at 4 times the speed in 30 seconds flat :x
As for using the clots for xp, there is just no way I ever want to put myself through that, ever. Even Match clots are ridiculous at the best of times. That said, even comparing a bst/nin to a rdm/bst in that situation, think of this: The RDM can bind and sleep the clot while they are charming, and are at no risk of being endangered during the process. When they do get the charm and go to fight, while the BST/NIN would put out more damage, the RDM enables the pet to put out more damage, aswell as themselves with Dia2 and Gravity. Count para, slow, blind into the mix, as well as the fact that RDMs can nuke the trolls and not get resisted (and have a lot of MP to spare while soloing), and RDM/BST is still going to come out well.
BTW, I dont think the tigers are "heavily resistant", I was using them to kill the nearby qigirns thinking an NM popped there for a good three hours, and never failed a charm once.
Edited, Nov 10th 2006 at 6:57am PST by Delekii
As for using the clots for xp, there is just no way I ever want to put myself through that, ever. Even Match clots are ridiculous at the best of times. That said, even comparing a bst/nin to a rdm/bst in that situation, think of this: The RDM can bind and sleep the clot while they are charming, and are at no risk of being endangered during the process. When they do get the charm and go to fight, while the BST/NIN would put out more damage, the RDM enables the pet to put out more damage, aswell as themselves with Dia2 and Gravity. Count para, slow, blind into the mix, as well as the fact that RDMs can nuke the trolls and not get resisted (and have a lot of MP to spare while soloing), and RDM/BST is still going to come out well.
BTW, I dont think the tigers are "heavily resistant", I was using them to kill the nearby qigirns thinking an NM popped there for a good three hours, and never failed a charm once.
Edited, Nov 10th 2006 at 6:57am PST by Delekii
BRD75 | BLM75 | WHM75 | COR75 | BST75 | RDM75 | BLU75
This a morbid discussion to begin with. The day /BST gets accepted as the equivalence of BST main, is the day you might as well erase these forums and never see another 75 BST again, for all good the job as a main does anyone. I don't see how pushing it's usefulness as a sub helps it as a main, besides slowly killing it off.
On my server alone, there's a total of 3 active NA 75 BST, and 5 active 75 JP BST. This is down from about 20 altogether from a few months ago. Monster AF2 practically rots in every Dynamis run, and I haven't seen a stack of PanzerGalahad in months. I don't like seeing our small circle of 75 BSTs die off anymore then anyone else, but it's not helping to have our roles marginalized by our use as a subjob.
I'm particularly dissapointed in BST's roles in not only supporting the idea of the 'BST nerf', but in pushing for /BST as a subjob. For a bunch of people who are supposed to have intelligence and foresight, you're not exactly using them in this regard. When i'm the last 75 BST to bother wearing my horns in town, i'm gonna blame you all for it.
On my server alone, there's a total of 3 active NA 75 BST, and 5 active 75 JP BST. This is down from about 20 altogether from a few months ago. Monster AF2 practically rots in every Dynamis run, and I haven't seen a stack of PanzerGalahad in months. I don't like seeing our small circle of 75 BSTs die off anymore then anyone else, but it's not helping to have our roles marginalized by our use as a subjob.
I'm particularly dissapointed in BST's roles in not only supporting the idea of the 'BST nerf', but in pushing for /BST as a subjob. For a bunch of people who are supposed to have intelligence and foresight, you're not exactly using them in this regard. When i'm the last 75 BST to bother wearing my horns in town, i'm gonna blame you all for it.
Come into the sand, and the dust, and the sky
Go now, there's no better plan, than to do or to die
Free me, pray to the faith in the face of the light
Feed me, fill me with sin, and get ready to fight
Snooochie wrote, concerning BST forums:
Go now, there's no better plan, than to do or to die
Free me, pray to the faith in the face of the light
Feed me, fill me with sin, and get ready to fight
Snooochie wrote, concerning BST forums:
Quote:
This forum used to be all about "How can we overcome this?" Now it seems to be all about "How can someone else fix this for me?"
"I guess this is the non-bst coming out in me, but I never feel the urge to xp ("hardcore" or otherwise on my 75bst, when I can flag up on brd and get xp at 4 times the speed in 30 seconds flat :x"
Pretty easy to see where you stand as far as wanting to solo for good xp.
And no you dont get 4 times as much xp if you can handle the bigger camps. Maybe more like 2 times as much and thats only if you get a good camp going with little competition.
Anyway being a whm I can see why you would take the easy path for xp as I do often myself. One could easily pose the same basic argument across all levels however, why solo as bst when I can just party?.. meh why play bst at all then?
And as a rdm sleeping a Clot to charm it.. eh.. You plan to blow petfood to wake up every single clot you charm? LOL
Of corse this is provided you can even land sleep on those things with any kind of reliability. You fail to convince me that rdm is going to be better than bst main when main goal is to land a charm on it at all. Bst main is much more likely to land a charm on such resistent mobs and a bst with enough chr in this camp will rip rdm/bst to shreds. I am 90% sure about this. also if a fight goes for too long the only thing you can do is use +charm gear to keep going... only bst has this option. This point is compounded that rdm will not put out the kind of melee damage you would need either.. It might even be tough to land enfeebles on hilltrols in general...
The point of this thread seems to be that people think that other main jobs are more effective than bst main when subbing bst. I can attest this is not allways true. If you arent willing to accept the fact that bst main IS more effective in the tougher end game camps then you really should see for yourself.
"BTW, I dont think the tigers are "heavily resistant", I was using them to kill the nearby qigirns thinking an NM popped there for a good three hours, and never failed a charm once."
there are no Qiquirn near the even match and tough Cave tigers. you did not use the correct tigers... I would love to see you try and go to as rdm/bst in this camp lol.. bring reraise item if you got some cuz you might fail like 4 or 5 charms in a row... To be fair though one time I was there and a 75 nin/whm was soloing the tigers there ^^;
Anyway with all that said, unless you are doing the tougher camps for much better soloing xp in the new zones it is true that a full bst sub is a very strong force. But knowing this I do believe you cannot accept that bst main is not usefull for soloing end game xp over other jobs that have it subbed as being 100% truth.
Pretty easy to see where you stand as far as wanting to solo for good xp.
And no you dont get 4 times as much xp if you can handle the bigger camps. Maybe more like 2 times as much and thats only if you get a good camp going with little competition.
Anyway being a whm I can see why you would take the easy path for xp as I do often myself. One could easily pose the same basic argument across all levels however, why solo as bst when I can just party?.. meh why play bst at all then?
And as a rdm sleeping a Clot to charm it.. eh.. You plan to blow petfood to wake up every single clot you charm? LOL
Of corse this is provided you can even land sleep on those things with any kind of reliability. You fail to convince me that rdm is going to be better than bst main when main goal is to land a charm on it at all. Bst main is much more likely to land a charm on such resistent mobs and a bst with enough chr in this camp will rip rdm/bst to shreds. I am 90% sure about this. also if a fight goes for too long the only thing you can do is use +charm gear to keep going... only bst has this option. This point is compounded that rdm will not put out the kind of melee damage you would need either.. It might even be tough to land enfeebles on hilltrols in general...
The point of this thread seems to be that people think that other main jobs are more effective than bst main when subbing bst. I can attest this is not allways true. If you arent willing to accept the fact that bst main IS more effective in the tougher end game camps then you really should see for yourself.
"BTW, I dont think the tigers are "heavily resistant", I was using them to kill the nearby qigirns thinking an NM popped there for a good three hours, and never failed a charm once."
there are no Qiquirn near the even match and tough Cave tigers. you did not use the correct tigers... I would love to see you try and go to as rdm/bst in this camp lol.. bring reraise item if you got some cuz you might fail like 4 or 5 charms in a row... To be fair though one time I was there and a 75 nin/whm was soloing the tigers there ^^;
Anyway with all that said, unless you are doing the tougher camps for much better soloing xp in the new zones it is true that a full bst sub is a very strong force. But knowing this I do believe you cannot accept that bst main is not usefull for soloing end game xp over other jobs that have it subbed as being 100% truth.
I don't think that this is a morbid topic at all. In order for /bst to be at full strength people need to level bst to 75, therefore creating another 75 bst.
I think that one of the reasons why "/sea all 75 bst" doesn't yeild very many people is because many of the people with bst at 75 have other jobs at 75, and and are participating in end-game activities via those other jobs.
The sad truth about bst is that even with the best of everything, you're not accepted as a DD in merit parties, or in other end-game activities. As a consequence of that, the bsts that do stick around after getting 75 are forced to have another job at 75 in order to participate.
I think that one of the reasons why "/sea all 75 bst" doesn't yeild very many people is because many of the people with bst at 75 have other jobs at 75, and and are participating in end-game activities via those other jobs.
The sad truth about bst is that even with the best of everything, you're not accepted as a DD in merit parties, or in other end-game activities. As a consequence of that, the bsts that do stick around after getting 75 are forced to have another job at 75 in order to participate.
Tordall - BC:100+3 LC:60+1 AL:60+1 WW:60 CO:60 CC:60 BS:60 GS:60 Fish:91
Sugared - CO:100+3 WW:15
Kinarii - AL: 87+2 BS:14 GS:1
Sugared - CO:100+3 WW:15
Kinarii - AL: 87+2 BS:14 GS:1
Pretty much along the same lines of people levelling WAR to 75 to merit, even though their main might be 75 DRG. It still regulates BST towards a second or third-string job, because it's use as a main has been taken over by jobs that can sub it. Might as well start calling this the /BST Forums.
Come into the sand, and the dust, and the sky
Go now, there's no better plan, than to do or to die
Free me, pray to the faith in the face of the light
Feed me, fill me with sin, and get ready to fight
Snooochie wrote, concerning BST forums:
Go now, there's no better plan, than to do or to die
Free me, pray to the faith in the face of the light
Feed me, fill me with sin, and get ready to fight
Snooochie wrote, concerning BST forums:
Quote:
This forum used to be all about "How can we overcome this?" Now it seems to be all about "How can someone else fix this for me?"
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