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gold Algol, do you want it?Follow

#27 Oct 26 2006 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Frodorn wrote:
drkone wrote:
Algol is not my only tripple attack gear, so it works great for me since its putting me over 10% tripple attack.


Um... Whats? 10% Triple attack is only possible on a Thf, with Merits

Explain just how you are getting to 10%?

Homan Body adds 5-10%(forgot which) in triple attack.


yes, Homan. got 3 pieces so far. drk can achieve over 10%tripple attack. i have heard from someone with all the gear that they had 18%, though dont know if its true or not.

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Well if you really wanted to get down to the basics. +6% critical would be u get an extra 6 criticals out of 100 hits. criticals usually add anywhere from 50-100 extra dmg, so lets take the highest dmg for example and with the added 6% you would get 600ish dmg extra from 6% critical over the course of 100 hits, this is based on calculation.
Now take algol. Its specifid that Fire dmg procs 40-60% of the time so I will say 50% of the time it goes off. Now I have seen the fire go for as low as 20 and as high as 60. So thats estimated about 40dmg per fire proc. If it goes about 50% of the time, then out of 100 hits it goes off 50 times.
40 x 50 = 2000dmg, take that against the 600ish extra dmg from +6% critical. Then again this is based on calculations and estimations. At times you could critical more or less, and also just as well the fire dmg could proc more or less.


yep, that pretty much sums it up. 6%crit is nice but thats only 6/100swings.
and im glad you have also seen that the fire dmg does between 20-60 and does proc alot. then add a little bonus of tripple attack and you got a great weapon. and ya, its all just calculations...crit/fire dmg/tripple attack can probably go off 0% of the time or 40% of the time. sometimes it works in your favor and sometimes not. your calculations are pretty much the same i have allways gotten from me using both weapons. Algol with the fire dmg alone does around 1400 more dmg with 100 swings, and thats not factoring in tripple attack. the lower delay on suduer is only going to give you an extra attack if you are in a more drawn out fight as some gods or hnm.

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40-50% is the highest end found, isn't always complete. What it comes down to for me at least is 10% base Critical Hit Rate > 3% Triple Atk.


well thats counting merits. thats kind of a mute point since anyone with maxed crits weapon is going to have 4%crit no matter what weapon they use.

Quote:
Saw 2 Gold Algol last night during besieged, they are silver with some gold parts. I would like one for the looks, but there are better GS out there unless it has some nice hidden effect.


ooh nice, you should have sent them a /tell and asked about it. as it is now, it just looks like a decoration piece. im thinking maybe some hidden effects that we dont know about maybe as i dont see why they would make a weapon that looks and seems like it would be the HQ of Algol but give it less goodies. i still havnt seen one yet though.

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#28 Oct 26 2006 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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yes, Homan. got 3 pieces so far. drk can achieve over 10%tripple attack. i have heard from someone with all the gear that they had 18%, though dont know if its true or not.


Where are you getting those over 10% triple attack numbers from? Unless there is some hidden effect I don't know about, the Homan set only gives 3% triple attack. This combined with Algol only gives 6%. I can not think of any other gear that gives triple attack that could go beyond this point.
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#29 Oct 26 2006 at 5:38 PM Rating: Decent
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drkone... Um... How much did your Account Cost you on Ebay?

Not even a Thf... You know the job that has the base Triple Attack Ability... can break 18% Triple Rate...

The Most Triple attack a Drk can get is Homam Body and Algol... which dont stack by the way... any time your Body Proc's your Algol cant.

Kind of like a War with Ridill Meriting double attack... /sigh
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#30 Oct 26 2006 at 6:14 PM Rating: Good
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The Most Triple attack a Drk can get is Homam Body and Algol... which dont stack by the way... any time your Body Proc's your Algol cant.


qft

Quote:

well thats counting merits. thats kind of a mute point since anyone with maxed crits weapon is going to have 4%crit no matter what weapon they use.


Not necessarily, 10% means 1/10 compared to 4% or 1/25 and a 3/100 Triple Atk. which still will put the Subduer ahead, fire or not. Again, I love Algol, great weapon. But I'll take Subduer over it any day, but again, its down to you and how you play, I just like to maximize dmg. and efficiency.
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#31 Oct 26 2006 at 8:51 PM Rating: Decent
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I just noticed this now, but Drkone, if you have an Armada hauberk (or even an Adaman hauberk) like your profile suggests and your using Homan body instead, you really need to rethink your gear choices.
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#32 Oct 26 2006 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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drkone wrote:
and how long will a fight have to last for that faster 9.20% delay to even get one extra swing in? much longer then any fight that i know of in exp parties.


This is a common mistake when talking about haste/march/dualwield, lower delay weapons (assuming they have similar dmg of course) or anything that translates in "attacking faster".

Its not about getting "an extra swing" like you say, its about doing the same amount of dmg in less time, which translates in KILLING FASTER, even if the fight is not long enough to do MORE dmg.
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#33 Oct 26 2006 at 9:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Not taking sides really but I'm going to have to agree haste is worthless unless you get that extra attack. Swinging a third of a second faster just isn't noticeable in terms of "doing the same amount of dmg in less time,"
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#34 Oct 26 2006 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Lefian wrote:
Swinging a third of a second faster just isn't noticeable in terms of "doing the same amount of dmg in less time,"


Just because its not "noticeable" doesnt meant its not there.
Dont tell me you "notice" a 12 attack boost when you break 600 attack (thinking at bomb core while using meat), but its there, and it makes some difference.

And the same goes with delay reduction, everyone swinging 10% faster = the party is killing 10% faster; might not be "noticeable" but will make you pull next mob sooner, will make the tank take less dmg saving mp (since the mob will die faster), will basically give you more xp/time.

edit: i swear i didnt want to derail the thread ><


Edited, Oct 26th 2006 at 11:05pm PDT by Brytta
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#35 Oct 26 2006 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Manchufabada wrote:
G
O
L
D ALGOL




Not Cerberus drop -.-

Everyone is well aware. But nobody gives a damn about that gs so we are talking about something more interesting
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#36 Oct 27 2006 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
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....Subduer, it's gotta be good for something.... haven't found out what for yet.

....Balin's sword....still most damage on gods, the STR+4 INT+2 is hard to overcome....

....Algol...yeah, for show and trying to XP with GS, good luck with that....

....Gold Algol... same lines as Algol, just gimped....

Unarguable facts from Theo. Just live with it. The only GS that's worth having other than the Balin's is the relic, have fun trying to get that.
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#37 Oct 27 2006 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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4STR + 2INT vs. 1 base dmg is so damn close in WS dmg and normal melee you should just take the 6% crit.
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#38 Oct 27 2006 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Well those aren't unargueable.

Subduer parses highest out of all great swords aside from the relic weapon and the stage before.

Its always good to keep your DoT up and since Subduer's base dmg is the same as Algol and 1 point higher than Balin's, then you have to look at it overall. The critical hits from Subduer will add up and do more for you than the difference in dmg put out by Balin's.

Algol, I do know a Drk that uses it on Gods and he loves using it, especially if the Triple Attack goes off. But for consistency, Balin's and Subduer should do a little more.

Gold Algol/+1 seem to just be a means of keeping Drks happy, for those who can't come across an Algol any time soon, though I'd rather take my time and wait than have to pay millions for that thing. Unless Gold Algol has a hidden effect, which I doubt, then its really not a great sword drks should focus on getting unless they want to for collections sake.

As for exping using great sword, it still happens. Its how you play. So what if its not a tp burn pt, and so what if its not the best exp, I'm playing to have fun with my job and I have yet to have a pt or form a pt thats said "Why are you using Great Sword?". I still make 15-24k exp an outing, which is ok, better than nothing but I'm not really going to just fall in line and become another cookie cutter Drk.
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#39 Oct 27 2006 at 3:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Wouldn't something like the Algol, Homam Body piece, Brutal Earring, and War Sub be good for exp? I don't have these items, but I would imagine with 8%Triple Attack and 15% Double Attack chances that you can't really go wrong. Of course your acc might slightly suffer, or your attack, but you would gain TP really fast.

Of course the real problem is a good spammable WS for Great Sword, nothing measures up to Guillotine.
#40 Oct 29 2006 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
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guitarmanofshiva wrote:
I'd like one to walk around town with, just kind of show off, but not to use. Divine lumber... seriously what in the HELL was SE thinking? Crap GS that uses the single most expensive piece of lumber in the game. My Balmung is way better than this piece of crap.


And my Subduer/Balin's is better than your balmung.
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#41 Oct 29 2006 at 4:20 PM Rating: Default
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^ So what's your point? you want a cookie? Seriously it seems the point of your post was to wave your epeen over me or somethin. Balin is dirt cheap with nice stats, and everyone and their grandmother has a subduer. Liked the balin, subduer wasnt worth the time imo, and i loved the balmuung. Balmuung works better for me, seemed to give me higher dot and ws damage.
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#42 Oct 29 2006 at 5:38 PM Rating: Default
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hi guitarman^^ use what you want and ignore the shallow minded people.

as for the rest of this topic. tsk tsk
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DRK's do it Hard and Slow. MNK's do it with both hands. RNG's do it from across the room. THF's do it from behind. BST's do it with animals. DRG's do it just to get noticed. SAM's do it alot. NIN's do it with imaginary friends. PLD's flash you then do it. RDM's want to do it but no one lets them. WAR's do it then brag about it. BLM's do it then blame it on the tank.
#43 Oct 29 2006 at 7:27 PM Rating: Decent
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hi guitarman^^ use what you want and ignore the shallow minded people.

as for the rest of this topic. tsk tsk


You forgot to try to explain your lie about getting over 10% triple attack as a drk. I don't even want to try to comprehend how you thought achieving 18% was possible.
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#44 Oct 29 2006 at 9:03 PM Rating: Decent
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guitarmanofshiva wrote:
^ So what's your point? you want a cookie? Seriously it seems the point of your post was to wave your epeen over me or somethin. Balin is dirt cheap with nice stats, and everyone and their grandmother has a subduer. Liked the balin, subduer wasnt worth the time imo, and i loved the balmuung. Balmuung works better for me, seemed to give me higher dot and ws damage.


Yeah it definitely was to wave my epeen when you said it yourself in the bold text. I doubt you're hitting higher #'6 with Balmung over +4 base damage (+5 in case of subduer) and +4 STR on Balin's. Base damage is the most important factor when determining damage, not to mention the crit % increase on subduer making it best GSD DoT wise.
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#45 Oct 29 2006 at 11:43 PM Rating: Decent
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You forgot to try to explain your lie about getting over 10% triple attack as a drk. I don't even want to try to comprehend how you thought achieving 18% was possible.


...im going to try not to be rude, but maybe you should read where i said "i heard someone say they have gotten that, but i didnt think it was true". i know thats exactly what i said, and if somewhere else i said differently then its a typo....geez, people who are so quick to jump down peoples throat make this game so enjoyable. only way i know of for drk to get tripple attack is algol, homan, and there is some food that i dont think people have cought on to yet, that grants tripple attack, but only a few have ever sold, and i cant find the info on it on any web site yet.

i finally saw a gold algol last night, looked pretty spiffy. i tried to ask the person if there was any hidden effect on it or anything or if it was just a poor mans algol, but they were JP so i have no idea what they said back^^

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DRK's do it Hard and Slow. MNK's do it with both hands. RNG's do it from across the room. THF's do it from behind. BST's do it with animals. DRG's do it just to get noticed. SAM's do it alot. NIN's do it with imaginary friends. PLD's flash you then do it. RDM's want to do it but no one lets them. WAR's do it then brag about it. BLM's do it then blame it on the tank.
#46 Oct 30 2006 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
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This just in.

If you say Balmung gives you higher DoT and WS dmg. over Subduer, you're lying to yourself.

If you say it gives higher DoT than Balins, maybe, WS dmg, you're lying to yourself.

Has nothing to do with "e-peen" 12 year old, it has to do with facts and mathematical probabilities and impossibilities.
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#47 Oct 30 2006 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Lord Disifer wrote:
This just in.

If you say Balmung gives you higher DoT and WS dmg. over Subduer, you're lying to yourself.

If you say it gives higher DoT than Balins, maybe, WS dmg, you're lying to yourself.

Has nothing to do with "e-peen" 12 year old, it has to do with facts and mathematical probabilities and impossibilities.


Some people just can't accept facts.
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#48 Oct 30 2006 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
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...im going to try not to be rude, but maybe you should read where i said "i heard someone say they have gotten that, but i didnt think it was true". i know thats exactly what i said, and if somewhere else i said differently then its a typo....geez, people who are so quick to jump down peoples throat make this game so enjoyable. only way i know of for drk to get tripple attack is algol, homan, and there is some food that i dont think people have cought on to yet, that grants tripple attack, but only a few have ever sold, and i cant find the info on it on any web site yet.


I did not mean to come off as rude as I did, but when your debating about something, making a mistake like that really makes you question what the someone is saying. Not to mention that hearing a player with hq end game gear (according to your profile) say that they can achieve over 10% triple attack makes me question your logic (I do not know how this could be a written mistake because it's impossible to mess up typing six and ly type ten). Also, hearing you say that you heard it was possible for a drk to achieve 18% tripple attack and not immdeiately think that was wrong also made me question some things.
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#49 Oct 30 2006 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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my thf is only 37 and i am not tripple attack expert, i have no idea how high someone can get tripple attack % to. i see no problem with that. as i said, i didnt think it was true because it sounded like a realy high number, but who am i to say he is wrong when i dont even know enough about it to say. i dont find it odd that someone can have HQ gear and not know everything about FFXI. it takes good friends and a dedicated LS to get great gear, it doesnt take a math major.
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DRK's do it Hard and Slow. MNK's do it with both hands. RNG's do it from across the room. THF's do it from behind. BST's do it with animals. DRG's do it just to get noticed. SAM's do it alot. NIN's do it with imaginary friends. PLD's flash you then do it. RDM's want to do it but no one lets them. WAR's do it then brag about it. BLM's do it then blame it on the tank.
#50 Oct 30 2006 at 6:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Knowing the statistics of the game you've been playing for years and being able to add simple numbers of easy to access gear stats makes you a math major?

Edit: Let's just let this end, I'd rather move on and forget about this problem than continue bickering with some one I usually agree with.

Edited, Oct 30th 2006 at 7:05pm PST by Ferriion
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#51 Nov 01 2006 at 9:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Probably the guy who said he could get 18% was some tard who thought that if you merit triple attack as a thief, it carries over to other jobs, and he thought homan gave 10%.

You run into people like that sometimes who are like "lolz, my (insert job with war sub) double attacks more often because I merited it on my 75 war!"
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