Explain DNC as DD please?Follow

when you get dancing edge.. everything will be better i assume, until then, just continue doing what you do..

DD doesn't start before you got Building Flourish and Dancing Edge

Phhht to parsers I say! They never tell the whole story. Of course you are likely to be the lowest on the parser because you are busy doing other things for the party. However, that does not mean you shouldn't land some mean spike damage when you are able.

Until you have dancing edge, you really are not able. Things change once you get dancing edge, no doubt there. Also, make sure to get gear that actually supports your dancing edge - str, attack, dex, chr. By way of example, I LOVE my assault jerkin. Make sure to get that once you are the right level for it.

I firmly believe that once dancing edge is available, every dancer should have TP gear, cure gear, and WS gear. If there is a single other healer in the party, you will have excess TP - don't sit on it, use it.

Actually the thing about parsers is that they tell you exactly what your entire pt has been doing and for how much. Parsers dont lie, and the one i use, Kparser, is a very well made one. I always macro in DEX and CHR gear for my dancing edge's obviously since those are the modifiers. and have not been able to get one off on an IT mob for more than 750 dmg. and thats extremely rare. 750 is the kind of dmg you see only on mobs like Colibri that are weak to piercing. Actually what i would really like to see here is the parser showing that DNC IS actually doing good dmg. I'm honestly shocked that theres so many ppl here saying that DNC is a DD.... the jobs been out long enough people should know already what it can and cannot do. I dont mean to be an A$$, but i have yet to be proven wrong that the only real thing dnc is good for is healing.

I'm more under the impression that some people are saying "People say that Dnc is DD." rather then anyone actually saying "Dnc is DD".

I think that allmost everyone will agree that Dnc gets some damage dealing capabilities eventually which can be done in combination with steps + sambas instead of healing and steps + sambas and not be a complete leech to the party.

As for parsers: they are great if you want to measure direct damage, but for indirect damage (damage as a result of Rdm casting Dia on mob, Dnc using Steps on mob, Whm hasting melee) they still suck.

Edited, Sep 21st 2008 12:28pm by GalkaReborn

I don't see the whooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh. I parse a lot of my parties as well, and while its true that it doesn't track things like your Sambas, it is irrelavent. You will be doing those things anyway. KParser does a very fine job of reading all damage though. I have seen the difference between a healing DNC and a DD DNC in my parties, and have to say the healer was much more efficient. The total damage increase, as a contribution to the parties total damage was negligible at best. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing if a WHM/NIN with two hammers and Holy could compete. But just like you wouldn't want the WHM to waste their MP nuking Banish and Holy etc, I always saw it the same as DNC blowing their TP instead of removing peoples status effects, curing etc.

In all that I'm not saying that just because something doesn't show up on a particular parser that you don't contribute to a party, because I think DNC is a great asset to some parties. I just think DD DNC is horribily inefficient, and the time and energy would be better spent elsewhere. As long as others keep inviting DD DNCs tho, I would definitely take advantage of that and ride that free train to 75.

Well, okay, it was more of a whooosh in the terms of the "parsers don't tell the whole story" thing that it was at the general topic at hand of DNC being a good dd. Obviously we all agree that the value of casting something like dia or box step or sleep can be extremely valuable to the exp/hour yet doesn't boost anyone's damage percentages on a parser. That was the whoosh; that someone was trying to make that point and Stefiki was going on about how accurate the parser as a program is.

Anyway, I guess I ought to make a real contribution to the topic.

To really be fair, you have to assume that the dancer has absolutely no duties to the party other than complete selfish annihilation of the enemy. No debuffing, no sambas, no healing, no nothin' other than the aquision of TP and the use of it to weaponskill monsters. A dancer can get ridiculously unfair amounts of TP in a hurry if they're not spending it on anything else. With a solid haste build and skillful use of reverse flourish, it's easily possible to keep up with, if not surpass, the TP gain of other jobs, and that was before reverse flourish merits made the whole package sweeter. Piercing weaponskills also destroy common merit mobs. It wouldn't be nearly as lopsided as a WHM/NIN trying to club something to death.

There's a couple important questions there. Would focusing entirely on DD potential and skipping useful moves like haste samba, also made better with merits, lead to more exp/hour? Would the loss of a potential healer that could be allowing the party to sub more powerful subjobs like warrior or samurai over something like ninja make up for the loss with faster kills? Flatly, there are no real good answers to these questions, as they depend hugely on the jobs and skill of the players in the party.

It would be something interesting to try perhaps, but for other people. Personally, I do rather like playing the "good guy" buffer debuffer healer dancer in merits and am loathe to try to enter the parser against monks and samurais. But I think it would be a fun challenge and not nearly as lost of a cause as some people would have us believe.

You must be doing something wrong, as 750 dmg is in the mid range of what DNC is capable of doing against merit mobs. I've seen Dancing Edge numbers in the 900's and up. Maybe you should try stacking more STR gear with your WS macro.



This right here is the situation you should be parsing if you want to really compare DNC's contribution as a dmg dealer.

Are you sure?
I didn't parse when I was leveling my DNC, but the WS damage with building flourish is quite respectable.
http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/750562-post19.html
http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/756569-post28.html

If you're trying to compare yourself to full-blown DD like WAR SAM MNK DRK SAM, you will never get your total damage as high as theirs. We have TP to spend for Samba and occasional Curing Waltz. But I say here, strictly speaking for WS. DNC from DE+BF phase till around ~73 can do about the same damage as THF SATA+WS

This is a complete contridiction to what Dancer is,
Dancer doesn't work that simply, nearly everything Dancer does is dependent on other ablilites; Sambas, Waltz and Weaponskills are dependent on TP while TP gain is dependent on Flourishes (Mostly anyways), and Flourishes are dependent on Steps which are in turn dependent on Meleeing.
In short doing nothing but the aquision of TP though meleeing is about the worst possible thing a Dancer could do.

As for the naysayers, I personally don't give a **** what you believe the job SHOULD be, because it is likely not what the job IS. The player decides how to play their jobs and in essence define the job for themselves. Also don't start with the ******** about wealther or not it is effective because the point is if it WORKS, it WORKS!
Once more, it is not your place to decide for people and limit their potencial.

You forgot Building Flourish, Haste Samba and maybe Wild Flourish.
Other then those three, that's about what you do to damage deal as Dancer.
There is an ongoing debait (in thf fourms) between what stats to focus on for weaponskills.

Kenshyn has an excellent point,
Usually your Steps and Sambas consume a fairly neguible amount of TP as compared to what you generate.
Thus the question becomes, what are you going to do with all this extra TP?
This depends upon your party's setup, which often will decide what exactly that party expects of you; welther it be damage dealing, healing, or a bit of both.

This is the way I see it too. If you cause the Mob to have lower Def due to acid bolts, Dia, steps, breaks, and anything else you can do that is your dmg.

Warrior using Gaxe from lvl 5-60 will use the same ws the entire time if their smart. Shield break is amazing -40evasion means everyone in your party gets a huge boost to dmg that will more than make up for not using sturmwind.

Take a rdm and brd in a merit party giving a total of 35%haste + the haste from the DDs gear. Once haste gets that high an extra 5% haste is huge for your dmg being that it give increasing returns. Add a dnc to a merit party and you have an awesome healer a huge boost to dmg from haste samba and you deal more dmg from def and evasion down steps. It is made of win.

You can DD if you want as long as you keep up with your other duties. No matter what you do though you will never be the best DD.