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75 Merit BP: wich one ?Follow

#1 Sep 23 2007 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I know this post has been done again and again, but I don't really like to waste 30k xp in a merit I wouldn't use. Some smn in my HNMLS use merit BP for HNM like gods etc ... I would like to know wich one is the usefull. I don't really use tier4 magic on HNM much more like diabolos nether blast, so I was thinking in ramuh's one, cause every blm use burst 2 and thunder4-aga3, but also as I know it weakens the earth resistance maybe Geocrush (titan's one). As I know they are all the same power, was thinking about ifrit one for coolness (someone told me it was the most beautiful one).
#2 Sep 23 2007 at 1:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't really like to waste 30k xp in a merit I wouldn't use.

Then you're looking at the wrong merit catagory.
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As I know they are all the same power, was thinking about ifrit one for coolness

Congratulations, you answered your own question.
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#3 Sep 23 2007 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
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geocrush also has an additional effect of stun which none of the others have, afaik.
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#4 Sep 23 2007 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, for my choice, I'm meriting Thunderstorm and Heavenly Strike to MB with Black Mages (they commonly have Freeze II and Burst II) if I'm fighting something that my Physical BPs can't hit hard. For Geocrush, why use that when you have Chaotic Strike?

Information on Chaotic Strike:

If all three hits land and stun processes on each one, the total effect can last up to 15 seconds. This is commonly considered the strongest stun in the game, but it will not overwrite an existing stun effect.

Obviously it won't always do 15 seconds, but it'll still stun longer than a regular stun.

Take care!
#5 Sep 24 2007 at 4:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Some smn in my HNMLS use merit BP for HNM like gods etc ...


He must be lacking Diabolos then since it costs half the MP and deal the same damage with nether blast. (exception would be if you build up 300% TP)
#6 Sep 24 2007 at 5:21 PM Rating: Default
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why the hell people gotta always be ******** when anwering questions? hey i wouldnt suggest getting any merit BP until u cap out others.. they are just too weak.
#7 Sep 25 2007 at 12:00 AM Rating: Decent
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The pacts can be a powerful tool in your ******* if you know how to use them correctly. Try to merit the ones that correspond to skillchains you see most often. For me, I eventually maxed out wind blade because i see detonation, fragmentation, and light all the time on hnm's. Magic bursting these pacts bring out thier full potential. I found diabolos to be really annoying to use all the time because smn lacks speed, and his attack is clearly weaker than a level 3 merit pact even if it costs less mp.


Windblade, Thunderstorm, and Heavenly Strike are the three that will have the most magic burst opportunities. Meteor strike looks very cool as well as grand fall, and i still haven't decided which one to take to lvl3. In my opinion these pacts don't reach thier best until you get them to level3. I've also found level3 merit pacts to be nearly as effective as blm nukes on statues in dynamis, but have a lower resist rate.

Its your personal choice and I can't say "get this one, the other one sucks", and I don't even like doing that. Its completely up to you, but if you're doing any of them I highly recommend getting at least one for light bursts and one for dark bursts. I'd also say that at levels 1 and 2 they are mediocre pacts that are only worth using if the enemy is immune or resistant to melee, but if you cap the pact it will be the rival of your 70 pact for that avatar most times. Its more about having a magical option than anything else.
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#8 Sep 25 2007 at 10:56 AM Rating: Default
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For Geocrush, why use that when you have Chaotic Strike?

why use any of the merited BP's over the typical 70 BP's? 1. you are going to mb 2. the monster you are attacking is physically resistant. so i ask you, why use chaotic strike to try to mb (...) or attack a physically resistant monster when you have geocrush?

that said, i was really only pointing out to the OP that they are not "all the same power", geocrush is slightly stronger than the other ones due to it being the only pact with an added effect. whether or not that makes it worth meriting over the other merit pacts, i cannot say, i was just pointing out the difference.
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#9 Sep 25 2007 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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I chose Geocrush to merit first and to be honest I'm happy with it. I plan on meriting into it a bit more and maybe Ramuh's more I don't really use Ifrits..only reason I got all of them was to see if there were any added effects when we first got them that and when I get bored want to play but not merit pt or level anything I'll go fight an avatar get a good 10k and usually end up using my merit pacts / bursting against the avatars element.

For windblade I use that on Kirin mostly but other than that I really don't use it. Thunderstorm and Heavenly Strike I use and they seem to perform very well for me when I'm bursting.
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#10 Sep 25 2007 at 11:44 PM Rating: Decent
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I found diabolos to be really annoying to use all the time because smn lacks speed, and his attack is clearly weaker than a level 3 merit pact even if it costs less mp.


It is roughly 33% cheaper. So unless you do 150% the damage I can't see anything else gained than possibly time.

For me (with only level 1 merit BPs and never TPing them first) it is about 550 vs 650 damage. If it was actually 800 damage more often I'd probably toss myself over merit BPs.

Also I MBed wind blade another day on a doll (sky farming party) at 300%, wind weather etc, and it did about 1100. Predator claws had before that done 1300.

To me these merit BPs seem to require:

1) Right weather and day to store TP
2) A mob strong to physical but weak to magic
3) A Skillchain

And the times I run across all these three are rare.
#11 Sep 26 2007 at 8:57 AM Rating: Decent
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He must be lacking Diabolos then since it costs half the MP and deal the same damage with nether blast. (exception would be if you build up 300% TP)


+200 dmg isn't the same damage. And the possibility to MB for even more. Why are trying to save MP when you need to DD the best that you can and most likely you have tons of refresh anyway?

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#12 Sep 26 2007 at 1:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm actually one of the few who has learned to survive without vast amounts of refresh.

I have about 50 MP per tick while resting.

So you take your 20ish MP for summoning, your 30ish MP for running around after kirin, then 100 MP for nether blast and add them up to 150 MP.

Then you see that in 40 seconds of resting you get 150 MP back.

So you have zero downtime. (you are only resting during BP recast)

This means you are BPing as often as possible and still have no MP issues. Moving up in the BP cost will make you lose more MP and make you reach low MP levels faster and require you to rest even when BP timer is ready.


It is just two ways of playing. The good damage with no downtime vs better damage with more downtime. In the end it is just about the same damage/minute in a long fight and it is kind of my point. If it is the same damage in the long run, why bother with the expensive ones that make you BP less often?

Vast amounts of refresh can of course counter this.

Edited, Sep 26th 2007 11:13pm by Mellowy
#13 Sep 26 2007 at 2:02 PM Rating: Decent
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why use any of the merited BP's over the typical 70 BP's? 1. you are going to mb 2. the monster you are attacking is physically resistant. so i ask you, why use chaotic strike to try to mb (...) or attack a physically resistant monster when you have geocrush?

that said, i was really only pointing out to the OP that they are not "all the same power", geocrush is slightly stronger than the other ones due to it being the only pact with an added effect. whether or not that makes it worth meriting over the other merit pacts, i cannot say, i was just pointing out the difference.


You read wrong. I was mentioning that fact that Geocrush has less stun duration than Chaotic Strike. Chaotic Strike has the strongest stun in the game. Geocrush is not. I was saying why merit Geocrush only because it's the only Merit BP with stun when you can use a stronger stun such as Chaotic Strike. If you have another reason, that's fine. In fact, I'm just letting out my input. I said I'd use Thunderstorm and Heavenly Strike to MB with black mages if the monster I was fighting is resistant to strong physical attacks such as the 70 Blood Pacts.
#14 Sep 27 2007 at 3:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Is it even proven the stun exist on the merit BP?

I've used it from time to time and never seen a noticable stun. Maybe you have to accidently hit a mob WS and see it stop to know.
#15 Sep 27 2007 at 6:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Ok I finally decided me by getting Thunderstorm BP for MB against some gods. I just wanted to get a merit BP because in some occasion, SMN aren't good DD like on dynamis dolls, some HNM ... Ty for all your answers (not Enilanerda's one, gogo open your mind).
#16 Sep 27 2007 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Just as advice, I wouldn't recomend on getting them to use on Sky gods. Nether Blast is still king in Kirin as Mellowy said and the others one you're better off using physical attacks. The most use from merit BP comes from Sea NMs and Limbus.
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#17 Sep 27 2007 at 10:22 AM Rating: Decent
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I already spent my merits for this category because my understand is the difference between the levels is how many TP the avatar starts out with for that bp. Am I wrong? Does merits effect anything else with these BPs?

I got all 6 and I have them for the graphic coolness factor. These appear to be as strong as Astral Flow only without the AOE factor. I like having all six because I like to keep my avatars out to fight with.
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#18 Sep 27 2007 at 6:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Ty for all your answers (not Enilanerda's one, gogo open your mind).

Lol, why? Because I answered your question honestly?
You didn't want to hear the truth? Go cry to someone else.

You said you didn't want to waste 30k Exp, I reccomended you spend those merits on something more useful. Is that such a horrible reccomendation?

You also asked which one to chose, I told you to pick the one that you like the most. In your words, it "looks the best" So that's what you should choose.

I'm unsure as to why you disliked my answers so much.
You already know they can all be MB'd. You know the elemental weakness of the HNM's you fight, you should know the SC your LS uses every week, and you should also know which elements fit which SC.

So why do you need someone to hold your hand when making a descision?
I answered your question, what more do you want?
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#19 Sep 28 2007 at 6:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Or... ya know, just bein' crazy here, you could just merit them ALL.

You get 6 merits and 6 skills are available. Seems like a pretty obvious choice to me. Additional merits only add a measly 20 TP to the attack, making them pretty worthless in my opinion. And it never goes higher than 300% TP anyway, not that any summoner I know of actually bothers waiting for it.

So yeah... get them all. That way you'll have an element for every occasion, not just two ever-so-slightly-more-useful ones.
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#20 Sep 28 2007 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
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You get 6 merits and 6 skills are available. Seems like a pretty obvious choice to me. Additional merits only add a measly 20 TP to the attack, making them pretty worthless in my opinion. And it never goes higher than 300% TP anyway, not that any summoner I know of actually bothers waiting for it.


An update earlier this year changed the TP modifier for each additional merit to +40%, also they increased the effect from meriting the pact more than once. My problem with getting them all is that you won't use them if you get them all. I've tried it, and just from observing them during that period, they are only slightly stronger than TierIV bloodpacts. In my personal opinion, if you want to get decent use out of them you should do 2x 3/3 or 3 times 2/3. base your decisions on the ones you will be able to magic burst with most often, because that's really what these pacts are for.
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#21 Sep 28 2007 at 2:52 PM Rating: Default
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I would advise you to use some merits to raise Avatar Magic Accuracy/Attack (Summoning Magic Skill, as well?) before considering your choice of Prime BPs. Those will help your damage as much as anything else.

I agree with Crystan that getting all 6, which I did, would be just as good as concentrating on one particular BP. I prefer to mix things up and play the days/monster weaknesses while others go for a particular MB.
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#22 Sep 29 2007 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Since the update getting all 6 isn't near as good as having 1 or 2 at full merits. If only one merit you have just a Nether Blast that uses a lot more of MP and get resisted more often, with full you actually get a decent damage, about 200 more. Elemental weakness is a joke anyway, if you get thunder and ice almost no mob has resistance.
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#23 Sep 29 2007 at 2:13 PM Rating: Decent
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You read wrong. I was mentioning that fact that Geocrush has less stun duration than Chaotic Strike. Chaotic Strike has the strongest stun in the game. Geocrush is not. I was saying why merit Geocrush only because it's the only Merit BP with stun when you can use a stronger stun such as Chaotic Strike.

and you read my response wrong. it is a worthless compairison between the two added effects because they both have situational uses apart from each other. i thought i made that pretty clear in my last post. once again, all the merit BPs do exactly the same damage... except one has an addidtional effect attached to it. in a scenerio that you are going to need to use a merit BP do you want to use one that does damage or one that does the same amount of damage and has a chance to stun for the same mp? the only true reason to not to merit geocrush over the others is MB opertunities and mob resistances, not some silly debate over what stun is better when you are either going to use physical damage or magical damage regardless of how powerful the stun effects are.
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#24 Sep 30 2007 at 2:12 AM Rating: Decent
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the only true reason to not to merit geocrush over the others is MB opertunities

The only reason to use a Merit BP is for a MP in the first place.
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#25 Oct 01 2007 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
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and you read my response wrong. it is a worthless compairison between the two added effects because they both have situational uses apart from each other. i thought i made that pretty clear in my last post. once again, all the merit BPs do exactly the same damage... except one has an addidtional effect attached to it. in a scenerio that you are going to need to use a merit BP do you want to use one that does damage or one that does the same amount of damage and has a chance to stun for the same mp? the only true reason to not to merit geocrush over the others is MB opertunities and mob resistances, not some silly debate over what stun is better when you are either going to use physical damage or magical damage regardless of how powerful the stun effects are.


You still don't understand what I said. Also, you don't have to take this seriously. We're just having a conversation. And another thing, I never disagreed that the Merit BPs do the same damage. Maybe you should read between the lines. I will say that it's still pointless to pick Geocrush only because it has stun. You'll find yourself using Geocrush not often as you think you would in many situations. Earth-type spells are ~rarely~ used. Although, do whatever you'd like. You have your reason and I have mine. I gave some info and you gave some info so the creator of this thread was given a lot to think about. If he listens to you, that's fine. If he listens to me, that's fine. If he don't listen to either of us, it's still fine.

Quote:
The only reason to use a Merit BP is for a MP in the first place.


Agreed, Gerkin.

Edited, Oct 1st 2007 8:49pm by Rainbladez
#26 Oct 01 2007 at 10:09 PM Rating: Decent
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What I haven't read yet is that merit BP's are situational.
(Could just be me, I just woke up so might have missed it.)
I've merited them all, they all have the same base strength which is a bit higher then an avatar's tier IV spell but definately lower then an unresisted astral flow unless you TP your avatar to 250+% TP.
The more merits you place in one the stronger it's base damage becomes although tesing shows that at 300% TP they are as strong as one with one merit in them.
(A fully merited BP stops gaining strength at ~260%)

Merit BPs should not be whiffed away as useless because they definately have their uses.
Uses I found for them:

Dynamis: when placed in a BLM party, next to buffing them with Dream Shroud I found it very useful to throw Geocrush at statues for the extra stun effect, they do about 250~400 damage depending on resistance and day of the week bonus.
Nether Blast gets resisted to -100 damage on them.

Genbu: Thunderstorm seems to do a good amount of damage on him, it's the least resisted BP by him and does roughly 400~500 damage.
Nether Blast is also resisted by him towards ~200 damage and the Physical BP's are just too inconsistant on him due to his high Defense.

King Behemoth: I found heavenly strike does pretty good unresisted damage to him although I believe Nether Blast also goes pretty much unresisted.

Jailer of Fortitude: Usually kited and even though Nether Blast goes unresisted so do all the other Merit BP's doing about 100 Damage more then Nether Blast each.
Even if straight tanked you'll be lucky to hit any physical BP on him above 100 damage with his insane defense.
Another advantage is that he doesn't reflect Avatar magic when his Qn'Ghrah are up like he does with normal magic.

And of course the basic: Just having fun!
Warning: Having your avatar up to 300% and MB one can result in impressive numbers!

Edited, Oct 2nd 2007 8:22am by Shirai
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