You Really Know Why Dragoon Sucks?Follow

You generalise. Never did I say "Drg is as good as XXX in general". That would be stupid. So, yes, it is a pointless argument, as I'm arguing "we are good in X situation" and you're rebuttle is "yeah but you get a bonus in X situation so you aren't in Y situation". Great, but I'm talking about X situation, not Y...

I got outparsed by an adaberidilljuggy WAR on greater colibri. I sux.

it's easy to get enough ACC to eat meat off AH. you can buy kick boots from the AH as well (it's long been known on forums that wearing fumas is basically telling the world you don't know what you're doing). that monk was just below average. this doesn't prove that "average monks" are better than "average drgs", or that mnks have a higher potential from AH-only then drgs. it just proves that that monk sucked;;.

in my opinion, when it comes to people who don't have crazy HNM/sea/whatever gear, the difference is how smart they gear themselves, and how sensibly they conduct themselves in party. if one wants to ask "OK well what about 2 smartly geared, sensibly playing players, 1 MNK, 1 DRG, party together... who parses higher?" someone else has to answer it because it makes my brain hurt/stomach hurt.

woah check me out i made a big *** post about drg in the main forum. awesome.

I just got outparsed by a SAM too! Clear evidence this job is inferior!




edit: with Amanomurakumo

Edited, May 2nd 2007 10:05pm by FaffyOfDiabolos

thank you very much! that was extremely helpful, rate up!

that's a pwning right there...

Notice how the decently geared AH DRG keeps up and beats the War/Nin, whatever they may have been wearing/eating, however.

since i made a pro-MNK parse post that may be interpreted as loldrg, i feel obligated to post this parse from my awesome DRG66-67 party last night.

parse.

this party (vs imps in caederva mire) made a bit more than 20k in 2 hours, and mostly consisted of me voking, opening light with wheeling thrust, then DRK SATAing light onto the NIN, mob dying soon after, then next fight RNG taking care of the brunt of the dmg with sidewinder/slug shot.

what i really liked about the party (besides for the great xp, and friendly+skilled players) was that the highest individual melee parsed only 2% higher than the lowest (not counting NIN, who contributed fine in his own right).

rng: 26.43%
drg: 25.66%
drk: 24.46%
wyvern: 4.41%
nin: 17.58%

to turn this into a bit of a yay DRG post, i'll note that the RNG and DRK were lv 68, while i was DRG66 until the last 10 fights or so.

when drg is geared and played well (and there's a lot more room to do that at 75 than at 66-67), DRG is really a formidable DD. the parse i posted sort of illustrates why... high DoT from melee, reasonably good WS numbers (can't stand up to RNG or SA DRK, but what can?), a significant boost to DoT from jumps, and excellent TP gain (notice my 50 WS to the RNG's 33 and the DRK's 34--this is with me often storing TP for SC, or inflicted with amnesia).

one might argue "lol bragging about drgs from a parse vs piercing weak mobs". fine fine, but the bottom line is that all these factors make for a well balanced job with *incredible* ACC gear options at end game, and really nice haste options if you put the work to get it. will it ever outperform top tier MNK/WARs and adaberk ridill WARs? no. can you get DRG to a level where you'll likely outparse everyone in your standard pickup party? definitely. the potential of DRG as basically a haste+TPbuilding (jumps could be considered boons to both) machine is easy to spot when you play the job. lolthf.

edit: by the way, since i hit 67 i finally got to wear that assault jerkin i got XPing MNK in 2004:D

Edited, May 9th 2007 5:14pm by milich

It's not an issue if the DRG is saying "I can do just as well/better than X job on flying mobs", but it does come into play if the DRG flat out says "My drg is better than most wars" or something like that and doesn't qualify it with the "on flying enemies" statement.

I think the point is, you wouldnt be showing off parses against bones in KRT. And the arguement that keeps on coming up is "An AH DRG can keep up with an AH WAR". Thats great. Alot of AH WAR's and DRG's I see TP in STR rings and wear AF feet fulltime. So if you're about even on dmg, you're going to come out on top because of that flying rat that isnt wearing LOLAF and is probably laughing at you and the WAR for doing so. And then parsing those 2 jobs on mobs that give us an advantage is skewing those numbers towards the AH DRG.

Hell, that arguement is like saying that a Ford Explorer has faster acceleration than a Ferrari because it wont spin out in the snow.

lol, I like this quote, It's very much true though if you live in alaska though 4x4 is required to even play on some of the outback roads and frankly for all the flash and pazzaz of the Ferrari, the undercarriage is too low to go even 1/10th the places my ATV can go.

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There is some truth to and against what we've been saying here.
No, drg is not the same as war or mnk
yes, drg has piercing bonus vs flying
yes, almost 80% merit mobs are flying now a days espically ToA and luft meadows if people still went there. You'd have to hit ulg. range, sky, or trolls/mamok only to break that mold.

so in essence what noodle says is correct to a point; in that drg's are going to be 80% of the time as good as other DD's since at least 80% of the time you will fight flying mobs

what the others have also pointed out though, is that not all jobs are created equal.

--- 20% of the time, even if you played both jobs yourself, drg is not going to have that piercing bonus and it will be put out by the other DD's. The same handicap however, does apply to the other jobs as well but we are not seeing that due to the mob population at end game.

--- Giant birds have like 25% resistance to slashing. Ridill war's for all their pwnage is not going to do as well on these. (axes, swords, g.sword, scythe, katanas)

--- Ghosts have high resistance to blunt (50% dmg), so you will actually see lot less output from your BB mnk's on these. (there aren't even any high enough lv ghosts to even see how much of a difference it'd make to mnk dmg on an exp mob)They resist slashing and piercing a bit too but not as much (25%)

Too bad we're not exping on ghosts and giant birds much at end game or you'd see more variety in the arguments. As it is, the stuff like colibri, puks, imps, are only weak to piercing and strong to nothing so all we compare now are the relative strengths without much consideration to weapon type bonus.

Other resistances besides birds

skeletons resist slashing (13%)/piercing (50%) weak to blunt (12% more)
undead dogs (hounds) - 12% more slashing dmg
course - undead guys at night in attowa chasm- resists piercing, weak to blunt
Qutrub - weak to all melee hits (3x dmg) magic 2x dmg
elementals/mimic boxes - strong to all melee hits only take 1/4 dmg
Hecteyes - 25% resistant to blunt
leeches - 25% resistant to blunt also
pots - take 25% more dmg from blunt
doomed - take about 13% less dmg from blunt
slimes - 25% less dmg from blunt, 50% less dmg from slashing and piercing

not really any mobs we fight at end game now a days very much

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Yes, your BB mnk vs adaberk/ridill war vs super nin's vs 2 min kirin kraken/drk's are almost in a league onto themselves in many ways.

and definate yes to drg/bst/thf/pup being on the short end of the stick when it comes to cool toys that only they can use

All these jobs seem to get are gimic ideas, when we think thf, we think TH+1 knife prz

--> when we think pup, it's something like :'toy job for taru' or "oh look, it's kind of silly looking kingdom heart's heartless" and that's about it

--> when we think bst: solo, gg, if we ever need add control we might call ya, don't they still gimp my exp/kill with a pet? (sarcasm vs brady guide phails on the internet sometimes)

--> when we think drg: hrm... ok do I really want him to cure me at 50% hp? I'm not comfortable sitting at that kind of hp since I've never had to deal with it 99.99% of the game so far.

or

--> well, they are good on piercing, we are fighting piercing mobs, and frankly no bb mnk.adaberkwar.w/e is looking, we can give it a shot but if I have to cure them cause of their wyrven, I might as well get a sam/rng with a sorboro. At least I've heard that G.katana is awesome. OR maybe a rng, I've been impressed since the 50's of the insane sidewinder dmg, they still good.

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Do drg's even have a cool anything cept the healing breath thing to make it outstanding??? I honestly can't think of much. We seriously lack a pazzaz move or item. Or if we already have it, it's not getting much press and I'd love to know what it might be and don't mention solo'ing power.


Edited, May 11th 2007 11:44am by sudojoe

#1 Angon
#2 SJump (No other job can loose hate with one ja.)
#3 New 2hr
#4 Wyvern
#5 Your a DRAGOON!

It amazes me how many people still know very little about drg. (90% of ffxi)
Lets face it some drgs dont understand it either, this would be the reason we are having this discussion.

What the hell? No, seriously. What the hell?
Don't make statements like the one I've bolded, it just reflects poorly on the rest of your decently worded post. If you don't believe there are any high level ghosts, I ask you to go to KRT and check if Vrtra is up. Or Ule Range at night. Or to explore Illrusi Atoll. Or wander around Mount Z at night.
In case you were unaware, high level ghosts do exist. In case you weren't aware though, you don't need high level ghosts to test this. Guess what happens when a Monk hit a low level Banshee. Our critical hits with capped HTH merits and Destroyers aren't reaching 189, that's for sure. (189 is the strongest a Destroyers wielding MNK can punch a weapon neutral mob for, with HTH at 291+)