You Really Know Why Dragoon Sucks?Follow

Thanks for the feedback milich, but I'm one of those evil, hated, probably permanent sushi monks... I use meat in rare situations(and I know I could use more often if I max merited h2h), but I'd never be a meat only mnk, there is just too much I still have accuracy problems on even with sushi(Mamool and Dynamis... by 'acc problems' I mean 'thf mobs kick my ***'... I can only imagine the additional problems I would have on those particular mobs with meat). I do however still use meat like I said in some situations, but I have noticed a big difference in the +acc drg has vs mnk and have yet to use sushi as a drg except for when our pt leader says 'ok, this camp is rated for 62-68 parties, we're a 60-62 pt, we can do it!' As for the gear comments, I'm missing some of the exotic HQ's, but I consider my drg buyable gear at 63(my lvl) perfect, and by 75, I'll be near perfect(own everything I could think of using thats bought except some HQ stuff like dusk/barone). Same goes for my mnk, missing Usukane body/feet, faith torque, hq shura, and melee gloves+1/bando kote only; everything else is the best I can get in my opinion.

The thing I constantly think about though, thats making this such a tough decision, is how I view my MNK and how others view it. I know the facts behind the effects of H2H skill, but it hasn't seemed to help most of the 8h2h merit mnks I know. Whether its different thoughts on efficient gear choices/swaps, differences in race, or differences in food: majority of the mnks I play with(some with maxed merits) and others with us already feel I am better, and if I DO outparse them as it is(I play mostly ps2, can't tell), why should I bother trying to go for super epeen with 7 more h2h merits? Most people know mnk is amazing dmg on everything except high lvl nm's, and even then if you're tp burning it, still great.. so why try to go even higher with damage? Why not put the extra 'help' with the job that will need it more?

I guess my original question was vague, I KNOW people will want me Mnk > Drg in meripo/limbus/dynamis(if they want me as a melee at all). I also KNOW I won't be doing gods or hnm's as either unless I join another shell who either needs a Drg for the afforementioned Angon/Spirit Surge or does them tp burn style and wants either. Should I give the merits to the job that by nature of its job, is already considered A+ in exp type situations? Or should I put the merits into the job that still needs to earn respect from most players on my server and is largely considered {Too Weak}?

i assure you that your MNK is performing well below its potential if you eat sushi more often than not, regardless of whether or not "the ffxi community" still praises you for your in-style job. further, i think you could disprove the anti-drg sentiment without 8 polearm merits... but if you plan to use DRG significantly more than MNK, yeah, 15ish ACC and ATT on DRG is a hot bonus, even with lots of ACC gear options.

The MNK Sushi vs Meat arguement has been beaten to death by a Taru with a really big stick he has trouble swinging, but to put it simply, I don't doubt a max merit MNK with an appropriate gear setup on most enemies(I see Mamool as tough to eat meat on regardles of situation w/o Madrigal/Scout's Roll, at least the ones I've fought) as being able to go beyond a sushi MNK... problem is just I've yet to see a MNK on my server do it(I'm sure some exist, I've yet to SEE it), and I don't have the merits or gear to feel comfortable trying to do it. That's my choice though, and its one of the main reasons I don't post on MNK forums, I don't want the DRG forums to hate me or ostracize me for using sushi on my MNK, whether I'm gimping myself from it or not. =p

I guess what I will try doing when I'm 75DRG is work on job specific merits first(already capped crits), and see how things play out. After a month or two, I'm sure it will be easier to tell where I need the merits more at that time, and if I'm still having trouble, I'll come back here and post an appropriate example of my activities on both DRG and MNK and ask again.^^

PS-Thanks milich and ketrel for all of the positive and open minded feedback.

Quoted for truth

Ummm.. I play on a PS2. Does that make me one of the Drg haters? I think not...

Anyway, what does it matter what people think of the job you're playing? Seriously. If you enjoy it, play it. If you don't, find a different job.

I rarely use Drg for xp b/c I find it to be slower xp than War pts and nobody in my shell wants to pt with me. So, I'd stand LFG for hours on end, and just log off. I'd solo Colibri, tigers, spiders, etc... I'd get bored.

Drg, imo, is awesome for anything other than xp. Again, this is from my personal experience with the job. NMs, missions, farming and anything else, its great. I just get some ******** pts on Drg. When I do get a pt...

And yeah. ALOT of Drgs blow. lvl 14 Dex rings @ 50... NQ Bone earrings... Wolf Mantle +1 @ 49. The list can go on and on. But, I'm tired.

In a nutshell: Drg does not suck. Nor has it ever. If done right, Drg is a damn good DD. It has a bad rep b/c so many ppl see the suck ones in action.

And for the record... I can pull hate from pretty much anything I want to on Drg. I always have been able to and I always will be able to.

That's just mean.

I've been meriting on DRG lately because I want to hit more than 2 macros.

True, very true. i cant beleive it took that long for someone to mention that. I was beginning to think that i was the only person around who remembered that XD.

Dragoon is anything but gimp. However, i hate to say that DRG is solely dependant upon the player. Angon endgame will be your best friend.. Heck HNMLS on my server are going stark raving mad for DRG's just for the use of angon. I mean if you were to think for a moment of the sheer concept of having 3 DRG with angon fully merited (max length of duration being 1 minute, recast being 3)you could swap them in and out for a constant -20% defense, in combination with an easy Dia III (which to those who dont know is -15% defense and is unresistable, aside from mobs with 'magic shield' in effect) from a whm in alliance...you have -35% DEF at all times on <insert mob here>. Even without a ready supply of DRG, angon can provide a nice window for melee to throw in WS for better damage.

Just that is one of the great uses of DRG in endgame.. Since when were we useless? I've main healed on many occasions as well, /BLU and /WHM back in the day. Not to mention a high-end melee who can effectively erase their hate seconds after they get it is purely droolworthy.

I was a 49+ DRG before the TP nerf, yes. As i can remember it people were sh*t scared that melee were worthless in party because of the lame TP return from the prime weapon skills...So shiny numbers took rule and we were classified as 'gimp'..

But hey i'm talking about a time where SC and MB was something common, I even find myself tacking my WS'es on the end of another person's out of sheer habit, lol.

In any case, i ramble, DRG are in no way worse than any other job. Perhaps better than a lot in the form of sheer usefulness. Aka: able to do more than put out melee numbers (while being able to do that as well).

I'm content with knowing this, and not paying attention to all the idiots who say that DRG sucks and 'I'm a moron', and cherish every moment where my LS picks me over other DD because i am, in fact, actually useful.

Edited, May 1st 2007 5:10am by Falenangels

lol@ thinking drg is somehow more difficult to play than any other melee job.

Wow...you have 3 jumps..so complex.

Acid bolts are 12.5%, Angon is 20%, they do not stack with each other or with frightful roar, or ss+jump, they do stack with dia.

just a note to "our WSs suck", my last two in this party were 1075 and 1088 respectively. no angon. yeah, that's poor. compared to 1020 by the Rng and 809 by the mnk.

Ranger can do decent axe damage with the right melee gear if they weren't wearing those horrid bonecraft rings all the damn time. The axes RNG typically use have very high DMG.

Actually, RNGs can do decent axe damage even wearing the R Acc rings. Having +46 R Acc and +46 Acc by virtue of job traits is pretty damned hot.

Weapon Accuracy
Combat Skill(Up to 200) + (Combat skill above 200)0.9 + Acc bonuses + DEX/2 + 8

Ranger Axe Accuracy (Meritless)
200 + 40(0.9) + 46 + DEX/2 + 8 = 200 + 36 + 46 + DEX/2 + 8 = 290 + DEX/2

Warrior Axe Accuracy (Full Merits)
200 + 85(0.9) = 200 + 76 + DEX/2 + 8 = 284 + DEX/2

So unless a naked WAR has 12 more DEX than a naked RNG, the RNG actually has a higher base accuracy with Axe than WAR. However, RNG is really lacking in gear to boost Attack, so their Axe damage is only so-so.

Now SUBTRACT about 10 to 18 accuracy because of the rings, and give the WAR Aggressor and stack on the fact they can wear heaviest armor and thereby have much greater melee ACC equipment choices.

And then the ATT thing as you said (and DA).