Cross Counters, you wanna know their advantage? I'll tell UFollow

For one it's the simple fact that they are great weapons, and before the Spartans nothing is even close to touching them. And +113 delay on the Spartans? Obviously they are great 50-58 because nothing is in their range, but I farmed for well over a month and cooked kabobs to get them and I'm sooooo glad I did. Even though the WHOLE time I was skeptical of whether or not all my time would pay off and I'd be impressed once I was able to buy them.

First XP party, a solid 15 DMG per hand INCREASE over my previous weapon, I dunno which it was, but it wasn't crap, I always had good stuff, which is why I farmed for the CC's. Anyway, it was better, but not jaw dropping.

Then I went on and entered a 50 cap ballista. And let me tell you now, a MNK decked out in nice gear with Cross Counters is the end all be all in a 50 cap ballista. I mean you can one on one anybody anytime anywhere any circumstance. The xp party is AWESOME and the CC do get the job done....but come on, what's my gratifying than BLASTING a cocky *** whatever for about a 700 Rage Fist and he's an even match ^^.

I do ok in the 60 cap, but I'm under lvl'd, but as far as the CC at lvl 50, it's just sick how nasty that weapon is at that lvl. I was in 2 ballista last night, 50 caps. The first we were winning by such a large margin I just quit playing the last 15 minutes, it was 80 something to 1. Then when it was over I had placed 3rd in scoring, and a little thing popped up and told me I was on track to becoming the Ballistar . Well, I had never heard of this previously, so I was pissed I didn't go all out for the whole ballista.

But, lessons learned right? So I go register for the next ballista and go full tilt on their asses the whole fight, and we were out numbered. We slaughtered them, I had about 35-40 KO's and score I dunno how many petra. Anyway when it was all said and done I was the MVP by more than 40 points and I'm well on my way to becoming my servers first Ballistar ^^

And I'd like to think a LARGE part of that is the time I took to get my Cross Counters. Because, they are, very over powered at lvl 50, it's just a fact.

Well that should be obvious right?

CC dmg +19
Spartan dmg +20

15, 16, 17, 18, 19,< 20

and you can't use spartans in a 50 cap ballista

and I didn't comment on the 60 caps yet because I'm underlvld
But I do counter often.

I hate to break it to you, but Avengers suck. Hello, +18/96? CC and TMH+2 blow these away. Vishnu aren't any good until you hit 75 and get MA6 bonus, and then they are on par with TM2 and CC. By then you should be looking to pick up Indras, if you haven't already.

I wouldn't recommend focusing on MND gear until you're going up against stuff that you can't melee, which is usually post-70.

I used to think CC would last me forever, as in... never have to get something else.

Then again, it's the same thing I thought about Ochiudo's Kote.

I know I shouldn't still want them at 63, but I do. Someone tell me to stick with Spartan Cesti! lol

CC is good because:

1) It last for the whole damn game, if you don't care about weapons

2) Its the best low-high level weapon

3) You can use it for BC50 and 60

If you want a good weapon, so far I think Kasier Kunckles
+20dmg +86Delay +3chr +3vit +3Acc is the best weapon a Lv75 can get.

Maybe Meteor cest is good too. Anyone with Vish tried using Meteor?

O ya I forgot. I'm using shiva claws now.

Edited, Sat Dec 11 04:30:26 2004 by Humster

i guess ill give it a shot at ending the whole best weapon thing.......................Spharai

i know i know they are hard as hell to get and they are super expensive to upgrade bet hey its not impossible^^

I'm not going to bother arguing with you if all you're going to say is "you're level 61, I'm level 75, therefore I'm right". It's pointless.

I don't want the openminded readers to get the wrong impression, so I'll point them to this thread on KI, where well-respected posters have this to say about Vishnus:

"I know a few people who are rather fond of these, but their equipment choices are also a little... unusual, so their opinion could be considered suspect. I used Narasimha's Cesti for a while to get a feel for them and was completely unimpressed. The increase in speed didn't seem to counter-balance the loss to damage and it really showed when my weapon skills were doing as much damage as they did back at level 50. Most of the best Monks that I've seen try these almost immediately resell them and pick up a pair of Feral Fangs or Cross-Counters, as their budget permits." -- Onorgul, 72

"Its really just to show off a semi hundred fists. TP gain is good, but your dmg suffers a huge hit." -- Xaijin, 75

"they aren't really made for exping, they really shine for farming." -- Torahi, 74

The only person who speaks up in favor of vishnus also thinks that Dragon Kick damage isn't affected by weapon damage.

Edited, Sat Dec 11 20:40:36 2004 by aurikan

Aurik, I love you.

That is the most words I have ever seen used to express "stfu noob!" in my life.

But seriously, the Vishnu's suck even for farming. Max damage per punch was 60-70.. +0 delay isn't a lot when you consider you already have 300 base delay at level 75. Like it or not that is 5 whole seconds.

If you don't think +12 damage makes a huge difference you are a noob.

Think of it this way. Cross counters let you do approx 48 more actual damage/round with only 1.5 second more delay.

Yes it is.

If the arguement is Vishnu's Cesti Vs Cross Counter's..

I'd vote for CC's..

Only reason why is because I'm a big WS Person and since my HNM LS has 5+ Blm's most of our Dmg comes from MB's. And me out tp gaining my sc partner (Warrior's Usaully) doesn't help much.

I can see where people would say Vishnu's are better. I used the Narasimha's (No Vish. in stock at the time) during a Item god hunt, and ya I loved the Dmg/Delay ratio. On NM's like Zipnaca who has high Evasion + High Def there perfect. On NM's like him you want to depend on your DoT and..

Narasimha's + Bard Songs + Haste is great on it. (I out Damaged all the classes there except the only Blm who MB'ed 3 times)

Would like to state that I've never owned a pair of CC's so...
<,<

I was gimp when I Lv'ed now @ 70's I'm doing my best To pimp out my Monk (Combo of +eva and +str) and Am trying for my indra Katar's, 0/3 on Steamcleaner very dumb drop rate >.<

Question: Has any one tried this combo..

Brown Belt (8%) + Fuma Kyahan (3%) + Byakko's Haidate (5%) + Panzer Mask (2%) + Haste Spell + Vishnu's Cesti

I've Never tried it but I Wouldn't be surprised if this out dmg'ed CC's

God damn it i read thru the damn thread hoping to see some smart info and all i see are flame wars, damn guys.

Anyways, Im lvl 64 i used the cross counters for a while until 2 high level monks (75, one with a kirins osode and several other jobs at 75) just told me, CC's are not worth it, get spartan cesti, even if maybe in DoT you may do more damage with the CC's, at lvl 65 you will become a skillchain closer and skillchain damage is related to weapon damage. so sparants would make a bit stronger skillchains closers.

I really think they are right on track, the good thing from the cross counters is the counter, thats the most underrated thing about the damn weapon. get a pair of aikido ******** 2 avenger earrings and the cross counters and go "hundred fist" an exp mob with counterstance on. you'll see what i mean.

As far as whats better, CC's or Spartan Cesti. I had my doubts... but now I am sure Spartans are overall better for the level you get them in.

This topic seems to come up several every few months... And the pure haste monk has come up before (Lets leave MNK/DRG haste warrior out of it this time ^^).



When looking at base DOT comparing Faster and weaker hits VS. slower heavier hits seem very close. As for WS the heavy hit wins out obviously, but the fast hits will gain TP faster. We know the tp gain per hit is lower, but on high evasion enemies a "miss" counts for a lot less when rapid punching, compared to winding up and missing with you big old "sunday punch". (I used Ben Grimm phrase on a forum... I feel so bad now >.<)

But after all is said and done, CC seem to be winning up to this point, primarily due to damage from skill chain closing. By how much I can't say...

"The kicking Monk"
The only good argument I heard for this was a kicking monk. Replace the fumas with wulong/dune footwear and with the added haste you will get more kicks in per fight. Kick damage is exclusively based on footwear (and str, etc) so the +0 from vishnu's means nothing here. The kicking boots outhit H2H weapons considerably (The dunes boots are equivalent to a +30 or even +40 weapon depending on who you ask)

So post 71 with "Kick II" do you kick enough for this setup to count for something? Kick seems to be 20% chance of triggering per attack round (10% per punch?). I get a kick in every 3-5 combat rounds as an L61 Noob. Is this drastically increased at 71? If so your number of kicks occuring in a fight would be scary, and this can balance out the value of Vishnus...

Dune boots scare me... check them out in the item database and every comment just goes on about how they make hate out of control due to overwhelming damage. So if Vishnus help milk more out of them, I'm onboard. ^^