Thief always gets the shaftFollow

THF doesn't need an upgrade to SAnTA, what we need is for Shark Bite to be a single hit. If that were the case then then the damage would be at least equal to Spinning Slash if not greater.

If you're going to add a new JA it should be a DEF penetrating ability, more DEF = more effect, that way it wouldn't unbalance EXP mobs but would allow us to do credible damage to HNMs.

This "tangent" is simply about the impact acid bolts make on a thief. It's not that hard to understand... The point of my paragraph, which you missed yet again, is that a thief has very little natural abilities to lower a monsters defense and that ANY form of defense reduction has an absolutely amazing effect on our damage potential. If WE could debuff the monster ourselves without a ranger it would be amazing. As for my experience with acid bolts, 56 ranger ~ 70 thief, what are yours?

Wow, you seriously don't know what you're talking about. A thf/rng would have absolutely no way to keep up in TP gain with any other melee unless they spam bolts... First off, it's +20 accuracy, nothing more. Second, that +20 accuracy means diddly squat when you're using one dagger. With ninja this would be awesome, dual wield and haste + some more accuracy, with ranger it's just a plain waste of time. Seriously, the only reason thf/war is a viable combo at later levels is because of the +16%acc of sushi+1 (notice percent) and berserk, without that a one dagger thief will get destroyed in TP gain and damage by any other job over and over and over. Again I ask, whens the last time you've seen a lvl66+ thg/rng bragging about how tough they are in an exp party? Doesn't happen for a reason.

Actually, people have been claiming that you can't do WSes early with +skill equipment for a while, so when I hit 56, I specifically went out and took that pic.

When have you ever seen a two bard party?



Look again...some of them aren't so good.

I guess reading isn't your strong suit.

He did 63 WSes (over 51 battles) for 31,093 damage (493.53 average).

Unless you have an alternate explanation for what WS a NIN/RNG can use to average ~500 damage against exp mobs?

Edited, Wed Feb 16 20:33:27 2005 by redvenomweb

Theres something to be realized about thf though.

Can any other job turn a E rated weapon into powerful heavy hitter? By looking at the thread in this forum called "Why thf should skill up Club ^^", it appears thf is a powerful threat just waiting to be unleashed.

My theory is SE fully understands the dmg capabilites of a thf, that is why we are tied down will low base dmg weapons. We are just that strong with the right factors. Do we ever read about any other melee jobs using low skill weapons for high dmg? I haven't, thats for sure. We may get the shaft in activites because of misudnerstood performance, but thfs certainly have a high dmg potential not known by the public.

Well this is my opinion, feel free to ignore this if it considered off topic.

Edited, Wed Feb 16 21:39:30 2005 by xmasterpent

redvenomweb or someone else, please explain to me the key areas of that log. I'm pretty bad at reading parser stuff. All i gathered from it was that distortion is a sucky skillchain against arcana and the NIN did more melee damage than the WAR (i assume not counting WS and ranged, since they're listed separately). Also, nynjaa, i think on fights that have 0% Racc there were 0 ranged attacks. I'm pretty inexperienced with parsers, since i'm a PS2 player.

Tirade begin... now


You say it like THF/WAR is so gimped that they rely on tricks to even retain function in a party. Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't helm and chamber beetles among the first wave of high defense/evasion mobs? I distinctly remember sprees of nearly empty chatlog when i was the only person landing blows (i have almost everything but enemy damage filtered) because i was the only person who could hit the damn thing consistently without a RDM in party. I landed viper bite for 450-500 every single time if berserk was on (almost always). For TP i outpaced ninja (with their three delay reductions), dark knight, dragoon, samurai (between meditate), and could almost match ranger. Not only that, but i was blowing away everyone's damage except ranger and black mage.

Today, fighting chandelier, me and a THF60/NIN30 both used SATA+hide behind our tank to start the fight. Our damages were less than 30 points apart. The /ninja hadn't eaten any food, but that's still not too bad if you consider it's a level 63 mob. That means tough to the THF/NIN, incredibly tough to me.

Sushi is good for /WAR just like ATT+ food is good for NIN. In my opinion, berserk + squid sushi is just sublime. Berserk more or less compensates for the loss of attack food, while squid sushi more or less (*coughmorecough*) makes up for the loss of offhanding a dagger for stats. I lean toward more because the 15% added accuracy of sushi should make up for the small delay reduction of dual wielding post 50 and because at my level, there is no dagger i could offhand for DEX+6 and AGI+5.

Is there such a dagger at your level? What exactly is your level? In your 45+ posts (lots of them flames no doubt) you have neglected to set up your information and show us exactly why you think you're better than whoever it is you think you're better than. You certainly must think you're better than someone or you wouldn't feel so comfortable insulting an entire branch of the thief community. You should probably look around this board and see that some thieves are actually going back to WAR sub because they're tired of unsatisfying SATAs and zero damage melee strikes. You get decreased DD from the former and decreased TP from the latter, two things that THF are generally accepted to excel at.

...end tirade.

I'm sorry to go on the offensive. I rarely do it. I just don't like my choice in playstyle to be ridiculed like that. Too many people like to hate on others for playing differently than they do. I say this to everyone, even the "OMG LOOK AT MY DAMAGE! WARRIOR SUB IS TEH LEETZORZ AND NINJA SUBBERS SUCK" people. I highly respect people like psichi, ixaera, archain, and several others who spend most of their time on this board helping people politely. (bonus kudos to ixaera for subbing a variety of jobs in exp parties so we can get some first person feedback on performance)

I'll be updating my character shortly as a pre-emptive response to any heat i may have brought on myself. I'll tell you right now though... i don't have uber gear by a long shot. I play the game to have fun. I don't care a whole lot that i died twice today helping that paladin get his garlaige coffer open, because i had fun creeping around behind the gates and fighting chandelier. Part of the fun to me is seeing how much damage i can do in a party. I also enjoy sneaking around and finding new things; it's quite a big world they've given us to explore. I help out my friends and push my thief to the limit of its capabilities (sometimes too far >.<) in a number of different situations, with a number of different subs. Thief is quite a capable job, and i earn respect from a lot of exp parties that didn't know how far thief could go.

I see. So your objection is that when wielding a club+dagger, all of THF's damage comes from SATA and SATAWS, but our normal melee damage is pathetic.

In what way is this different from how THF normally works?

Edited, Wed Feb 16 23:31:20 2005 by redvenomweb

Huh?! How is squid sushi+1 a "trick"? And to correct you, no, helm and chamber beetles are FAR from the first wave of high defense/evasion monsters. The first noticeable wave would be torama in labyrinth of onzozo. I thought after at least 10 posts in this thread I made it clear that I am not talking about thieves pre-level 60, thanks. However, you will see someone else from this very thread vehemently disagreeing with the feasibility of thief/warrior, take a guess who it is.

Go read the thread about thief/warrior and sushi, what you just wrote was my argument for thf/war, thanks. Please, for the love of god, read this post and come back here telling me I'm anti-thf/war.... http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=10&mid=110720242836122681&num=34

If you took offense that's not my problem, I didn't say anything bad about thief/warrior. I'm level 70 and I don't think I'm better then anyone in this thread, I just don't bs. I could sit here and say "yeah, maybe you're right, but..." or I can just say "you're wrong", I'd rather just give my opinion without tiptoeing around other peoples feelings on an online message board.

Because the accuracy bonus for sushi has existed for three months, and this game has been out for nearly three years. Unless you're claiming that up until three months ago, THF/WAR was totally gimped and useless because of their horrible TP gain?


http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=413546&highlight=#post413546

Where did you read that it was only ACC+10?


Nice try, but you already tipped your hand on this one. The reason why it didn't work for you is because you sat there spamming your C+ crossbow, instead of taking advantage of the extra ACC+22 to your A- dagger. You said it yourself... you couldn't figure out what you were supposed to do when your Sharpshot was down. Maybe you should try it again, but this time, instead of thinking that "RNG sub = must spam ranged at all times," try taking advantage of ALL the benefits of the job.