Thief always gets the shaftFollow

SA 2 or TA 2 should make SATA + WS on THF main be the best closer like it should be.

quote]I honestly don't think it's even worth Squenix's time to address, if all you're asking for is an upgrade from C+ to B+. At LV60, this is six points difference of skill. At LV75, it's 26 points of skill... but that's still dwarfed by gear/race/food/subjob comparisons. If B+ would be acceptable and welcome, C+ should still be quite usable (which it is). [/quote]

lol I got too lazy to refind the paragrah, just deal with it. XD

Yeah, 26 points. That's a huge difference.



Now, I may be wrong, but I'm looking at my handy-dandy chart of skill caps and we get Slug Shot (w/ RNG sub of course) at 57. Thats one whole level. ^^



Coffer picking sucks, it gets in good money but most of the coffers I've heard of suck. NM hunting could rake in money just as well, if not better, in the same amount of time.



I think it adds the ability and works on things like Blood Pacts Curing and such.



Makes sense until u consider: Dagger:A- Marksmanship:C+
Lv.50 that's 11 points difference and at Lv.75 it's 39.

Edited, Tue Feb 15 17:29:41 2005 by RhondaTheSly

Edited, Tue Feb 15 17:32:26 2005 by RhondaTheSly

Is 1 full letter grade really a small increase? You might want to actually show us the difference in skill before saying something like that.

Sorry, let me clarify that.

Certainly, going from say, A- to B- would be significant. What I'm trying to say is that even if we went from C+ to B+, we still wouldn't be able to hit anything reliably without a major change in gear/subjob focus. So since no one subs RNG anyway, what actual difference would it make? It would be the same old sad story about how we can't hit anything.

Wow, this thread is so fast paced. We Redvenomweb hailing from the northlands vs Nynjaa hailing from the beast dominion. Both sides showing no chance of backing down. Each fighter even has people siding with him. Who will win?

It was addressed in the next paragraph... Also, I don't think you understand how effective acid bolts are, you've never even used dancing edge let alone used it on a defense reduced monster... When I party with a othinus' bow ranger and they keep the monster debuffed my damage goes up considerably. Now just imagine being able to debuff the monster with a bow/gun ranger or any other DD class... Yeah, that's what I thought.

Good luck getting TP without sharpshot, gonna just go "afk" everytime it's down to stop the embarrassment? The argument for thf/war is slower TP gain, but higher melee and ws damage; there is no argument for thf/rng past level 60.

The point, which you missed, is that a weapons role is not simply doing weaponskills... You made it seem as though a higher skill in marksmanship would mean nothing since the ranged weaponskills would be weak compared to a rangers. That is simply a stupid statement, the main effect of higher marksmanship skill would be debuffing and TP gain.

This is just plain stupidity. I'm starting to think you really just don't understand this game. I can't even imagine how powerful a thief with an A+ in club would be, we would absolutely destroy skeletons. I still am not interested in higher weapon ratings though... It's just that an A+ in dagger is what thief should have gotten.

I was merely commenting that it's another aspect that SE gimped us on... That is no lie, however I'd much rather see an improved set of abilities before I see thief moved up to an A+ in dagger.

Now you're talking about more stuff you've never experienced... Trick attack with assassin does a little bit less damage then a regular sneak attack, hense when seperated you end up doing a little more then stacked. The damage difference is negligible at best. The only thing this changes is the need for a "first voke" in which a damage dealing class is forced to take unwanted damage. If you're fights take more then 1 trick attack on the tank, 1 sneak attack on the monster, and a sata+ws your party is moving WAY too slow... I hardly have time as it is to use a solo sneak attack.

The ways they could improve sneak attack and trick attack are limitless. A higher damage modifier would be the easiest... Also I don't see how it would make thief "instantly overpowered" as what we are now is mediocre at best. Any damage dealing class can put out a higher sa+ws closer then we can with sata+ws at level 71, except maybe dragoon (haven't been able to watch any drg/thf's at 70+). If we had a melee advantage on other jobs it wouldn't be a problem, but sata+ws is basically all we have.

How many exp parties have you use Acid Bolts in? I'd be willing to guess that (as a RNG) I've used them in more than you have. This is to say nothing of multi-RNG parties, which almost always have one RNG on xbow using Acids. Please, save your "you don't know how good Acids are!" speech for someone else. I am quite aware of their effectiveness.

And what does Dancing Edge have to do with Acid Bolt experience?

[re: THF/RNG]

You do realize that 60THF/RNG gets ACC+22/RACC+22 from /RNG Accuracy Up trait, right? TP gain isn't exactly a topic you should mention, if you're trying to disparage /RNG.

Edited, Tue Feb 15 23:38:27 2005 by redvenomweb

This thread has become a pissing match instead of a discussion that's really about thief. The big picture has been lost to "a difference of 5.472%" this and "A-/B-" that. Just to make it known, the build i use at my level is THF/WAR with pretty eclectic gear (STR+6 DEX+13 AGI+8 or 9 ATT+5-15 EVA+14-19 ACC+3) and i eat squid sushi.

I used to not like my damage when i was eating mithkabobs, but now i have been doing 450-500 every viper bite unless berserk is down (against beetles). Getting TP in garlaige (also against beetles), i was outpacing NIN by a bit, beat DRK by a lot (as much as double sometimes), almost up to RNG (sometimes more, usually a little less), and almost up to SAM as well.

I hit 50 yesterday, and was in sauromugue to hunt towers with a 70RDM. While waiting for another 50THF from LS to show up, we were killing stuff to build TP and just for the heck of it. The RDM cast stoneskin/phalanx/ice spikes and /sat in front of a gob, getting aggro. Gobbo was hacking away for 0 damage and taking ice spikes damage in the process. I came and hit the mob without SA, expecting to do a sizable chunk of damage (mistook it for a butcher for some reason, rofl). After a couple swings, i noticed how little damage i was doing and realized i was fighting a smithy.

It turned on me by about the fourth swing (single dagger, so high attack rate) and started to fight back. I just leveled, so my evasion is 3 under cap, along with 3 evasion bonus traits. The gob didn't hit me once. I just kept plugging away until it died. Smithies, if i recall, were a pain in the *** at 45 unless i had ninja subbed. (By pain in the ***, i mean had tough defense and would manage do a good bit of damage before going down.) Yesterday, i was THF/WHM (for barfira on Climbpix) and didn't have any buffs of any kind on for the smithy.

A couple days ago (as THF49), i was helping a 50 WAR do AF1 (don't ask me why he waited so long) and while he and a RNG took down the first orc NM, i tanked the second without taking any damage. I still had a shadow left from my second utsu when they finished their orc. ******** around after that (fighting EPs) i made the WAR stop voking if i pulled hate off of him, which i did without trying sometimes (had to try a couple others, hehe). He had a couple close calls because even with good defense, the EP were hitting him nonetheless. They didn't have nothin on me though^^b

Originally, the thread was about how thieves got screwed on equips. To that i say... "meh". I wish i had more to look forward to, yeah, but it's not all that bad when you consider that we're such a capable class by default.

I sure do miss the times when I could just concentrate on dex/agi, instead of all of this atk/str/delay/dmg/etc.

Since we're on the subject of what people can and cannot attest to, let me inform you that even against mobs that check as normal defense, Acid Bolts will significantly ramp up your damage. Again, don't presume to tie Acid Bolts to some arcane knowledge that only the privileged few can know. You're not even talking about Acid Bolts; you're talking about lowered defense in general. I'll repeat my question: exactly how much experience do you actually have with Acid Bolts themselves?

If this particular tangent was about the weakness of Dancing Edge at high levels, you might have a point. But it's not. It's about the impact of Acid Bolts. Your attempts to shoehorn DE into the discussion are immaterial. DE is no more important than any other WS, as far as Acids are concerned.


I am totally perplexed as to why you keep mentioning Sharpshot. THF/RNG can melee with significantly higher accuracy than any other THF subjob. Are you under the mistaken impression that just because you have a RNG sub, that means you're supposed to (try to) spam ranged non-stop? THF/RNG benefits from the melee accuracy bonus of the /RNG Accuracy Up trait just as much as it benefits from the ranged accuracy bonus.

Edited, Wed Feb 16 06:00:37 2005 by redvenomweb

My god, I've never seen a ********* this long about one thing.

All you whiners should be ashamed of yourselves, you are starting to sound like White Mages complaining about farming.

If you honestly cannot stand THF that much, go take up another job.

If you think Rng or Blm have it so easy, then go be a Blm or a Rng, and don't give me the "I dont wanna be a blm or a Rng, I wanna be a Thf" argument. Because you obviously don't.

Hecatomb gear is great. There's one thing you don't realize. That god gear is all lvl 75, you really don't XP @75 so there's no real need for it.

You will be fighting things like High Def HNMs and so on which will require much more STR and ATTACK than DEX.

Sure 200Dex sounds great on paper, but if you had a clue, you would realize that, that is just the max damage POTENTIAL.

You will never hit that potential if you dont have some STR and DEX to back it up.

After 65 about 20-30 Dex is about nessecary, then its time to start shelling in some STR and Attack to make sure you fill that damage gap to actually reach your potential.

Sure your potential might be lower than when you have mega Dex Boost, but you will also realize that you hit for much more on a constant basis.

Damage Potential with Max Dex Gear

<--------------------------------------------------->

Damge you will get cause lack of STR and Attack

<------------->

Damage potential with Balanced DEX, STR, ATK

<-------------------------->

Damage dealt with that balance

<------------------------->

Looks a lot better doesn't it?

If you can't grasp that, you are either not the level and you will in due time, or you are too ignorant to listen to some facts and try it out yourself.