Thief always gets the shaftFollow

I said jobs with two weapons in the A+/A- range, you just proved my point.

Your right about thf not having more then one weapon with B or higher, but nin has throwing for an A+. The problem is Throwing has no ws of its own.

Problem is that as you get higher level the C+ in marksmanship really becomes evident. Hitting a monster and getting the status effect to land is extremely difficult to do while trying to keep up with TP. Shark bite damage is dependent on your TP so you're going to always want as much as you can get. If you're using dancing edge you can try to throw out a few after getting 100% TP and you might get lucky, but really it's not worth the trouble especially since most DD will be ready or very close to being ready when you hit 100% TP.

Sure, why not, but it wouldn't make any difference in how well those jobs played in a party. Giving thief an A+ in dagger would both improve accuracy and DoT while also allowing us to get our 225 weaponskill at lvl65 like every other melee.

Weapon ratings aren't even really what I'd be interested in though... I mean I'd love an A rating in marksmanship, but I doubt that will ever happen. What I would like are post-37 abilities that are actually useful in exp parties! Hide is a joke, even with the subsequent hide and sneak attack combo. Reason being is that we get invisible from ninjutsu and while fighting hide only works on a few types of monsters, in which only 1 type is fought for exp, goblins (sure you can fight yagudo at some levels, but it takes a long time to get to the camp ~ if you fight tonberry for exp you're just crazy =P). I mean sneak attack and trick attack have to be the most unnerfed sub abilities in the game... A guaranteed critical hit with guaranteed hate transfer on 1-hit weaponskills with absurd damage modifiers? That's just crazy. I'd say the next "most used" sub ability would be meditate and they nerf nearly half the TP gain making it useful only in certain circumstances. Every other ability seems to be either thoroughly nerfed or not very detrimental to the main jobs role in a party.

Also as we get higher level it seems as though sneak attack and trick attack don't get any stronger. It's very nice to hit for 300-400 damage or so in the mid40's or whatever, but when you're 70 hitting for about 400 total (sa and ta seperated for ~200 damage each) it's just plain crappy, the monsters HP hardly moves whereas at 40 you just took away a huge chunk of HP. What would be really nice is giving us sneak attack and trick attackII, whether it's in the form of a job trait (ie. "Improves the effect of sneak attack") or just changing "Sneak Attack" in the ability menu to "Sneak Attack II" I couldn't care less (although some new animations would be nice ^^). Of course they'd have to make it relatively high level to not overpower thieves, I would think 65 would be about right. Anyways I doubt it will ever happen, SE seems to like tormenting us thieves and our partners in shaftedness, dragoons.

Yeah, THF is stuck getting their 225 at LV66, just like those useless, gimped RNGs. It's not fair, I tells ya!

On the subject of "not making any difference in a party," like I've pointed out multiple times, if we got A+ in one of our other weapons like Marksmanship tomorrow, what difference would it make? We'd still be using dagger WS only. I fail to see the benefit of having an extraneous A+ in a weapon that you shouldn't even be using (you know, like a DRK with a Scythe).

If you add pld: Red lotus -> howling -> shark (but howling the level 60 WS). It works but Asuran (or spinning attack) -> Blade Jin -> Shark works as well... but yea..
A lot of people say all these things, but they dont know about it cause they're not of the level. I dont even consider myself "high" level, but I know there are some really bad problems with thf endgame, and past 66... Well ill give it 67...
If your not past those levels, then you really shouldnt say anything since youu DONT KNOW... All you hear is what other thfs say about it... But ill say this... I feel damn weak playing thf at my level. Sure, its cool using the weakest weapon to make it actually decent, but its still the weakest weapon, and we are forced to use it... The two skills that enhance our weapon are given to ANYONE who subs thf... So basically a mnk or sam can sub thf, and do basically what we do... (And at my level, i dont just SATA normally on the tank because it takes me like 1:05 mins to get 100% tp... So SATA without WS is only viable the first or second battle where you get into the mood). So a mnk can do what a thf can do, but actually be able to use his A+ WS on bones, while thfs are "forced" to use their E clubs...
Now, i personally wish i could be as happy (or it seems so) as nynja is, casue that guy seems like he loves his job...

Edited, Sun Feb 13 12:26:37 2005 by Telok

Edited, Sun Feb 13 13:40:41 2005 by Telok

Ack! I forgot to mention pre-60. >.<



XD
Really some new equipment could probably help balance this all out.



Did you read anything I put down?
We'd most likely be using xbow due to the higher accuracy, sure our gimped weapon selection won't get us many damage points but TP gain would be just on par w/ RNG.

With enough +Evasion, actually, a thief can tank VTs. And no, not just in the dunes, I've done it at 20, 27, 54(>.< I wanted Triple), and 73(>.< I wanted 74). :p 'Course, I did it as a Thf/War... and it was rather easy at 73....

I agree completely, but I also like to have fun in my xp pts. I have yet to try it though. (RNG1)



As far as soloing goes anything more than EP will crap on any THF until 74 w/ NIN sub. Late voke? I'm pretty sure a THF would be able to hold himself back just enough to not steal hate from his own SATA. Yes, I have done that myself(Hahahahaahah... -_-) but chances of it happening again are slim, especially as I get higher levels.

A Nynjaa, I think Rhonda is referring to the gun ws, not the dagger so it doesn't matter how much the dagger dmg sucks unless were talking about regular SATA hits, thats another story.

So we concetrate our SATA on the Gun ws itself. Unfortunately, right now no rnged ws is compatible with SATA. Of course SE culd change that.

Edited, Mon Feb 14 00:52:30 2005 by xmasterpent

You seriously need to shut your mouth and start leveling... According to your signature you're lvl57 and that's something I could believe from your posts. You don't seem to understand that post-60 thief is all about accuracy and TP gain. I mean you don't even have dancing edge yet, how can you possibly comment on a thiefs main concern post-60?

With an A+ rating in marksmanship thieves would be absolutely amazing, if you think otherwise you simply have no clue how this game works. With an A+ we'd be able to land status bolts that can cause the whole party to do more damage and cause the monster to miss more while not sacrificing tons of TP to do so. Hitting a monster at lvl65, for example, with a status bolt with a C+ in marksmanship is simply a waste of time. You miss out on 2 swings with your A- dagger that could have given you a CRUCIAL 10TP and you probably will miss anyways or the status effect will not trigger. At 57 you might not think 10TP is crucial, but at lvl70 just a few misses can cause you to lose the chain, parties don't like not getting chain5 at high levels. Now with an A+ our chance of hitting with a bolt is greater then our chance to hit with a dagger, hense using a few status bolts here and there to debuff the monster will NOT cause you to fall behind in TP gain. Anyways this is a moot point since SE would never give us something like this, because they hate us! Ok ok, not because they hate us, but because every ranger in the game would protest us getting a higher skill level then they do.

The list is just made to show the amount of ranged accuracy us THF can wear. About that curse thing though, I made an edit and I suppose I might have closed the window on accident or something, there is an entire paragraph missing. Who cares though...

Edited, Mon Feb 14 05:11:09 2005 by RhondaTheSly