Thief always gets the shaftFollow

i'm sorry, but you did not make a valid point.

DRK: why do they use spinning slash? because it does more damage in a specific circumstance right? if thief got an A- in club, for instance, would we use dagger or would we use club? hmm... club for skeles and monsters strong against dagger and dagger for everything else right? that's the point, DRK have a choice to use scythe and have higher accuracy and damage or use great sword for higher ws damage.

NIN: you don't understand why it's ok for a ninja to have an A- and not thief? uhh... ok? question, why are ninjas invited to parties? another question, why are thieves invited to parties? if you still don't understand there is no hope for you.

RNG: the dex argument is fun... mithra base dex at 75 thf/nin = 94, mithra base dex at 75 drk/thf = 86, a difference of 8 dex or 4 acc. if you call that a "loadout", well... whatever.

BST: you missed the point again... bst's rely on their pets to do most of the damage, thieves rely on their daggers alone.

WAR: see DRK.

PLD: who cares if nobody has an A+ in staff? that was never the point, the point is that thf is the only melee NON-TANKING job that doesn't get an A+ in their main weapon. again rangers don't count, they do enough damage as it is.

if you take another look at it, you'll only actually see one melee NON-TANKING job that doesn't get an A+ weapon. as usual ranger is not counted, if they did damage comparable with a thief then they would of course be included, however they are the most powerful jobs in the game.

bst - has pets, whm - heals/buffs, nin - tanks/debuffs, rdm - debuffs/refreshes/heals, blm - nukes/debuffs/heals, rng - overpowered, brd - sings songs/heals, smn - buffs/heals/avatar damage, thf - hate control/melee damage. notice something very peculiar about the list? yes, that's it! thief is the only one in there that is invited for melee damage only!

lol it pains me to argue against THF.

And apparantly anyone can sub THF and do our job post 60 since thats what all the PTs have been doing and getting more EXP.

In the time the THF did 600 damage from ONE Raging Fists, the MNK did 850 because he did TWO Raging Fists. Oh and not to mention the MNK would do more melee damage sincee they would have a better weapon and more ATk and STR and more Acc.

Way to answer a question that wasn't asked.

Problem solving 201:
Monk does five (or fifty, or five hundred) WSes, all for [x] damage.
Thief does one WS for [x+1] damage.

Which job had the more damaging WS?

Take your time.

I would love to see you even try to make this argument without referring to DOT. WS for WS, THF will outdamage MNK, heads up. The only thing you can say is that MNK can WS more often, which makes you look like the CEO of the "Duh" Corporation. If that wasn't the case, THF would replace MNK. That would lead to a bunch of MNKs ******** and moaning about how their job is usele... oh, wait...

I'll probably get rated down for this post, but I must defend my fellow THFs. I feel THF is just fine the way it is. We don't get party invites as much as others, but we do so very well solo thanks to SE allowing us to use status bolts. We can't wear the god gear, but thats all right, I won't let that bother me.

Anyway, the reason I was posting this.



I don't know if anyone ever noticed it, but monk is designed to be a tank. With the right gear, they can tank very well (Bone parties come to mind). the VIT also helps with chakra, as stated, and the agi helps with Guarding, etc. It is clearly made for tanking and it has very good stats, but definitely not "the worse" if you assume they were made for situations.

Now for the RDM JSE, you failed to mention that red mages get two sets of JSE. one they share with bard, the one you posted (why does bard need +acc/atk?! if anything, thats the worst for the job) and then this one, which you left out


Glamor Jupon
Level: 50
Slot: Body
Rare / Exclusive
Jobs: RDM
Races: All
Defense: 27
Affects:
Enhancing Magic Skill +3
Enfeebling Magic Skill +3
Elemental Magic Skill +3
Dark Magic Skill +3


{Hmmm.} I'd say that this is just what all red mages in a party would lust over. It is very difficult to get since the fomor red mages are always in a party (ironic, isnt it?) but definitely worth the effort.

Check waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy back on the 1st page of the thread and you'll see one sentence (by me) that says something about RDM JSE. ^^


Edited, Sun Feb 13 03:13:13 2005 by RhondaTheSly

Where did i state that the A- was irrelevant? If spinning slash was war ex drks would not use it at all, they use it because it has a high damage modifier and is one hit, with sneak attack they will never miss it. If they could only use the ws by subbing war you'd see a hell of a lot less drks running around with great swords. An A+ weapon does more damage and has better accuracy then a A- weapon, period.

How are the questions I asked rhetorical? They aren't. Answer them or stop with the whole "it's ok for thf's to get an A- since ninjas do" bull.

Fine, what is the base dex of a 75/37 thf/nin compared to a 75/37 drk/thf? It will probably only strengthen my argument. And what haven't I done on my own? Get to level 75 with both thf and drk? Uhh no, I haven't, does that matter?

As for the dex/acc argument, setup a thf/nin in the best possible gear, then setup a drk/thf in their best possible gear, let me know the outcome ;). Also note the amount of gil it takes to set up each, lol. As a thf overcomes their A- in dagger other jobs are pushing their A+'s through the roof.

This still doesn't address the obvious shortcoming of thiefs in god fights and exp situations, unless you think a thief can tank. I mean thieves definitely don't "suck" when compared to other jobs, but aside from soloing a few weak HNM's we have nothing but TH. I mean all i'm asking for is more of a role in HNM and god fights, we're obviously only there now for TH2/3/4 and as i've said that's pathetic. The only other job that has it worse then us in those situations are dragoons.

I care, thf's are meant to use daggers as much as a monk is meant to use their fists, there is simply no reason to not give us an A+. As I've pointed out many times, thf is the only melee non-tanking class that does not get an A+ weapon, no matter how you spin it that is being shafted. People obviously don't worry about brd's C in singing skill because they're the ONLY job that can sing and the songs are very very powerful. If thief was the only job that could use daggers and the base damage of dagger was somewhere near 35-40 damage I would be one happy thief. Again, you missed the point.

Once again you miss the point and run off tangent. There is a huge difference between being "screwed" and being "shafted", no pun intended. Thief is a great job and a lot of fun to play, but it still doesn't justify some of the crap we have to put up with. Sure not all jobs can solo, but jobs that cannot solo are very powerful in parties (brd, drk, rng, pld, whm, war, mnk, sam). Most jobs that can solo are also very powerful in parties (nin, smn, blm, rdm, bst) while some can have their roles in the party taken away by other damage dealers cough..thief... and some just are overlooked because many people think they don't do a lot of damage, dragoon.

So if I understand you correctly, scythe is a more damaging weapon than GS, and has a far superior rating, yet DRKs are running around with their gimped A- GSDs and WARs are running around with their useless A- axes anyway.

If other jobs have A+ weapons and don't even use them, preferring to use A- weapons instead, why are you complaining? If THF got A+ in Marksmanship (their 2nd highest weapon) tomorrow, what difference would it make?

When it comes right down to it, the majority of late-game jobs use A- weapons, even when they have a choice to use A+. The three jobs that only use A+ (SAM, DRG, MNK) don't even have an A- weapon to use. Their next step down is B or worse.

Imo, every melee job at lest should get 2 weapons to have skill in the A-/A+ range. How is it fair that drk/war/rng/pld get two weapons to have A+/A- while other melee jobs don't?