Thief always gets the shaftFollow

And what are your other options at LV50? A Brigandine that adds 6 whole damage to your SA? OK then.

The point is, bonuses add up. When you add Rapparee, Bravo Subligar, DW2, and Haste, you get a total of 33.5% haste. I've exped with DEX+30/AGI+30, and obviously I could sit around and say "Lightning Bow +1 only adds THREE DEX, wowowowow!!!!11!" but the objective is to get as large of a TOTAL bonus as you can. Every little bit helps, and +haste equipment for a THF isn't exactly growing on trees.


Or you might as well just buy a Peacock Charm, and land more hits anyway, right?

Comparing a 10 million gil item to a (fairly easily acquired) rare/ex item isn't exactly apples to apples. It's ridiculous to say, "Oh, well SH+1 is better, so therefore THF JSE sucks."

Edited, Wed Feb 9 18:57:45 2005 by redvenomweb

Yes but a RICH SAM/RNG can do amazing damage on HNMs using archery cause they can actually make use of their skill. While THFs on the other hands get crap for ranged weapons.

RNG don't have access to Shadowbind until 40, this combo will work till then. Afterwards they can save their gil and sub THF.



Us THF are very lucky to have our good skills in Marksmanship and Archery, but who the hell thought it was a good idea to give us a better Marksmanship skill and more Archery weapons? I was trying to say lower archery and raise marksmanship skill, you get Ranged Accuracy+8 from a +1 bow and arrows but eventually that will just be making up for the slightly lower skill level.



I'd toss MNK in there too, MNK are a great DD job but don't seem to get much out of the game, as far as DD people always seem to choose RNG and DRK. On my server there seem to be a lot of DRK around to fill the demand meaning that leaves very little for MNK besides bones.



TH2 seems be the worst thing us THF have going on. Plenty of people level up crappy THFs to 15 or 45 and give THF a bad rep. Most of the people in the game also seem to want to use THF for it as well resulting in some uncomfortable situations. On the bright side it helps us farm mats so we can craft, it takes us twice as long to kill a mob so if drop rate was doubled... well at least we have NMs. ><

What the hell are you talking about? Up until a few months ago when we got xbows, THF Marksmanship wasn't even that useful. There's no perks to Steal, Hide, TH2, coffer popping? There's no perk to having the strongest WS (by FAR) for 22 levels? There's no perks to being, hands down, the best SC closer for 51 levels? There's no perks to being the only job with any sort of hate transfer ability for 30 levels? What world do you live in?

Your entire point seems to be, "THF isn't useful for HNM!" Ummm, so what? Most of the jobs in the game can't solo as well as THF. What is your point?


So then, you're comparing THF/NIN strictly to NIN/THF. That means no curing, no Erase, no Provoke, no Double Attack/Berserk. You've got to be kidding. NIN/THF loses to THF/NIN on downtime alone.


I'll take Acid/Blind/Sleep/Bloody bolts over ninjutsu enfeebles, and be happy to do it...


Both katanas and daggers have pathetic base damage; arguing over which one is slightly less horrible is trivial...


Yes, NIN has quite a wide variety of less damaging WSes to choose from, though I fail to understand how this is a benefit while soloing...


Lower evasion, so you'll actually need both of the above...


TH2/3/4, +Steal equipment, Hide.


How, exactly, do you plan to recover HP?

Edited, Thu Feb 10 00:25:13 2005 by redvenomweb

so you spend countless hours getting thief to 75 for? who cares about midgame, what really matters is endgame, that's why everyone is out exping... oh and steal? stealing gold coins is tedious and pointless unless you kill the monster so another pops with a coin, soloing yagudo isn't tough, but it's still very slow gil. hide? what are you smoking? wow we can get away from yagudo and goblins, that's nice and all, but why is that important? TH2? read my post. coffer popping? where have you been? no more astrals, all we're left with is a random amount of gil and some decent items, nothing special.

uhh... why would a soloing ninja need provoke? and downtime? what are you thinking about a thief soloing? farming regular monsters at lvl75 is rather pointles...

depending on the monster they're fighting paralyze and slow will be much more beneficial then sleep and bloody bolts. if they need healing they sub whm and have stoneskin, protect and cures... they miss out on some evasion and TH1, but that's not incredibly important... when you think of thf and nin soloing what exactly are you thinking that we kill? the only thing really worthwhile are high lvl NM's and low level HNM's that aren't overcamped... otherwise you could make more gil just killing goobbues or something, lol.

oh man, what game are you playing?! maybe if you're comparing a normal katana to a mandau, but otherwise you're just crazy, katanas have a much better dmg/dly ratio then daggers.

depending on what they're fighting some ws's will do better then dancing edge...

no they wont... if you take a thf with their best possible gear and compare it with a ninja with their best possible gear the evasion difference is hardly anything to worry about.

i already mentioned TH as the only advantage thf has over nin. hide is stupid, why would you be fighting yagudo or goblins? steal? again, why? you can make better gil farming low level monsters with TH3/4 then you can farming stuff you can steal gold from...

why exactly do they need to? i really don't know what you think of when we're talking about soloing... we're talking about thf's ability to solo vs. other jobs abilities to fight gods. you will never get as much gil as someone in a HNM linkshell soloing worthless monsters and stealing gold coins all day long. i'm talking about high level NM's/weak HNM's, not normal monsters. if a ninja wants to FARM, they can sub whm. but again, what reason is their to farm extremely high level monsters unless they want the exp? if they're fighting stuff decent challenge or below a ninja won't even get touched aside from ws attacks that go through shadows...

i mean i'm not trying to make thief look bad, it's my job and it's incredibly fun, however there is nothing a thf can do that another job can't do aside from standing around with TH2/3/4. exp situation ~ any tank can hold hate without a thf, especially if another DD subs thf. endgame stuff ~ thf is eclipsed by other DD's and hate is not a problem, we're only there for TH2. thf is just slightly better off then drg, which is quite sad. as i said i suspect any job changes we see in updates will deal with thf and drg exclusively, perhaps downgrades on other jobs as well. anyways if you want to farm, go bst, they make more gil soloing then a thf could ever dream of making. plus they don't need to waste so much on bolts and shihei ;).

So then, bottom line, since THF is not useful in HNM fights, you complain about it being useless and broken. Exactly how do you consider BST being remotely useful, then?


Seems to be useful for claiming. But I suppose you could just Flee+Mug like THF.


I'll tell you what... why don't you give me a situation where soloing with enfeebling ninjutsu+1 extra shadow+katanas outweighs soloing with status bolts+THF's TH bonuses. Certainly, you'd have to be talking about something that would kill the THF but not the NIN, right? Because otherwise, this discussion is just ridiculous. It's a landslide victory for THF, on TH2 alone.

I can summarize this very simply: in exactly what solo situations would it be more beneficial to give up THF's TH2 for whatever you get from NIN?

This is why I say THF is a "better" soloist than NIN. The majority of the time one solos, it's for drops. That is the whole reason you are out there. THF affects the bottom line, pure and simple.


You completely failed to grasp the point.

Can katanas deal better damage than daggers? Probably, but who cares? Both are pathetic. It's like arguing about which is faster, an Escort or a Tercel. Nobody cares.


Katana WSes would struggle mightily to match DE. They would have no chance at all of beating SA+DE (which we all know can be done solo quite easily).


To be honest, your posts just seem like whining. It's no different than the WHMs that complain that RDMs make them obsolete (except as taxi/raise *****). I don't see how you possibly arrived at the conclusion that WHM and SAM are crucial, well-appreciated jobs while THF is a lowly outcast.

Obviously, different jobs are better at different level ranges. From what I've read (and I'm certainly open to correction), in higher level HNM fights, there are basically 5 roles:

1) tank
2) support
3) RNG
4) Chi Blast *****
5) Spirits Within *****

THF can sub SAM and Spirits Within like anyone else, and I don't see boostboostboostboostboostboostboostboostboostboostboostboostChiBlast as being some sort of noble step up in prestige.

Edited, Thu Feb 10 03:41:07 2005 by redvenomweb

Powder Boots only give you 12 seconds of flee, a THF with AF boots gets 45 seconds.

Edited, Thu Feb 10 06:50:25 2005 by Lobivopis

Then I guess it's a good thing I didn't say that, isn't it?


Either quote where I said that, or STFU. Stop inventing statements for me and then blasting them. Learn to read, or stop posting.


More like the the most ludicrous thing I've never said.

I usually only use Flee on NM hunts and a 12 sec. Flee is still good enough for a RNG to get close enough plenty of NMs to do ranged attack or whatever they want to do. I'm not a heavy NM hunter but I do camp VE on occasion and since the pin is hovering around 950k~1m gil range it's a solid choice for non-crafters for a few levels.



Gilfinder+1... worthless imo.