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Just a question about HPFollow
If i put a warrior and a paladin at lvl 80 with exact same gear, do both have the same hp? or does warrior get more hp? why do they have more HP? How much is the deference in HP between a Paladin vs a Warrior (both human) naked (no gear)?
Thank for the info.
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80 Paladin
70 Hunter
80 Paladin
70 Hunter
Untalented all characters receive 10hp per 1 stam. Warr get about an extra 1k hp by the time the hit lvl 80, however. But currently paladins receive more stam bonuses from talents(14% for pallys, 6% for warr). Raid buffed in stam set i generally have more hp than any of our warr, just a bit over 40k fully buffed(flasked, food, everything).
My info is anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt.
Palys generally have the lowest HP for a tank – all things being equal.
Druids have the most HP for a tank – all things being equal.
DK and Warriors are somewhere in between – all things being equal.
To compensate for the lowest HP, Paly tanks are given the most effective health. (Basically – my understanding of “Effective health” means that the Paly might have less HP, but be able to take more damage due to being able to avoid and better mitigate incoming damage… EXAMPLE: Warrior tank with 30k HP will be able to tank through, let’s say, 35k damage. 30k of Health eaten and 5k that he will dodge, parry, block, etc… A Paly will come to the party with only 29k, but be able to tank through 36k of damage. This is due to their ability to be Def Cap’d (Generalization for being Crit Immune and a standard for ALL tanks), but also because Paly tanks can be Block Cap’d at all times.
I don’t know the statistics, but if Paly tanking is done correctly – you can effectively be at something like 102% chance to mitigate damage (through something other than just plate armor mitigation – aka the 5 D’s of dodgeball: Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge.)
Someone like Losie should further explain this, but I think my generalizations are pretty accurate.
Palys generally have the lowest HP for a tank – all things being equal.
Druids have the most HP for a tank – all things being equal.
DK and Warriors are somewhere in between – all things being equal.
To compensate for the lowest HP, Paly tanks are given the most effective health. (Basically – my understanding of “Effective health” means that the Paly might have less HP, but be able to take more damage due to being able to avoid and better mitigate incoming damage… EXAMPLE: Warrior tank with 30k HP will be able to tank through, let’s say, 35k damage. 30k of Health eaten and 5k that he will dodge, parry, block, etc… A Paly will come to the party with only 29k, but be able to tank through 36k of damage. This is due to their ability to be Def Cap’d (Generalization for being Crit Immune and a standard for ALL tanks), but also because Paly tanks can be Block Cap’d at all times.
I don’t know the statistics, but if Paly tanking is done correctly – you can effectively be at something like 102% chance to mitigate damage (through something other than just plate armor mitigation – aka the 5 D’s of dodgeball: Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge.)
Someone like Losie should further explain this, but I think my generalizations are pretty accurate.
Most things you worry about never happen anyway.
Also remember that one source of the health difference is that a pally and warrior cannot show up in the same gear. We're using a libram with a BV proc when we judge, they (should) have a gun with massive stam and some avoidance stats on it. While I love the emblem libram, I'd trade it for an armor plated combat shotgun in a heartbeat.
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99 WHM, BLM, BST, BRD
Amen to that. I like the extra blockvalue but its absolutley crappy that a 15 emblem of heroism is our best in slot libram. I know there is the Consecration Libram in Naxx but I personally wouldnt be using it. To answer the OP's question along with what the others have said. Each Tank class has its ups and downs. Though in Wotlk the differences between the tank's are much smaller then in TBC(from what i've been told and read I started at Wotlk). Paladins technically do have the most "effective health" Thanks to our Holy shield we are the only tank class that can easily max out our avoidance at what like 103.4%. Someone correct me on that number I know i'm close. But as a pally unless you gem specifically for Sta and dont even look at avoidance...which is bad!! bad.. We'll generally have the lowest health. We also have the best AoE threat so incombination with being the best in blocking/avoidance it makes Pallies exceptionally good at tanking massiveamounts of trash.
Not uncommon for Pallies to be MT's in raids. Like I said the difference in tanks abilities in Wotlk really are not that far apart anymore. It does **** me off that Druids can have over 50khp raid buffed...thats just sick. I almost crapped myself when I saw that.
Not uncommon for Pallies to be MT's in raids. Like I said the difference in tanks abilities in Wotlk really are not that far apart anymore. It does **** me off that Druids can have over 50khp raid buffed...thats just sick. I almost crapped myself when I saw that.
All things being equal, a pally will have less actual health than a warrior. Not by much, but the pally will have less.
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Quote:
Palys generally have the lowest HP for a tank – all things being equal.
Druids have the most HP for a tank – all things being equal.
DK and Warriors are somewhere in between – all things being equal.
Druids have the most HP for a tank – all things being equal.
DK and Warriors are somewhere in between – all things being equal.
Unbuffed i'd agree with the above post, but raid buffed this has not been the case, at least in my experience(pugs, other guild tanks, etc). Two reasons for this 1)already stated earlier, pallys get more hp for every point of stam and thus scale better with raid stam buffs; 2)pallys can gem for pure stam as it is also a threat stat while warr must gem for a lot of expertise once they are at the 25man MT lvl or their threat will suffer quite a bit. If both classes gem/chant strictly for stam a warr will come out on top, but the difference is a lot less than in TBC.
Keep in mind HP is not everything. As some are sadly misled to think. A druid has a heck of a lot of health because they need a heck of a lot of health. A paladin could use more health, but their skills and talents generally compensate.
As a healer I personally prefer healing the lower hp, higher avoidance tanks. The high HP tanks seem to be just mana sinks. But everyone has their own preference.
Let me find that quote from the Lich King tanking guide posted here...
Reference: http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/class.html?wclass=2;mid=1229110515202736947;num=52;page=1
So in essence we don't need as much health because we don't lose it as quickly as other tanking classes.
Again there are always exception...
As a healer I personally prefer healing the lower hp, higher avoidance tanks. The high HP tanks seem to be just mana sinks. But everyone has their own preference.
Let me find that quote from the Lich King tanking guide posted here...
Quote:
Since Paladins are the only tank in the game that can reliably be Blocked Capped nearly 100% of the time thanks to Holy Shield -- reaching the block cap means we have the highest effective health of any tank in the game.
Reference: http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/class.html?wclass=2;mid=1229110515202736947;num=52;page=1
So in essence we don't need as much health because we don't lose it as quickly as other tanking classes.
Again there are always exception...
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Also, since this analysis has been based on mostly anecdotal evidence, let's not forget that you'll never see a Tauren pally, whereas you see quite a few Tauren warriors because of their racial stam bonus.
Mccready | 85 Human Rogue | Argent Dawn
Rubmyhorns | 80 Tauren Druid | Bleeding Hollow
Giventofly | 82 Dwarf Paladin | Argent Dawn
Ayn | 82 Human Mage | Argent Dawn
Sevendeuce | 71 Undead Warlock | Bleeding Hollow
Nyadnar | 70 Orc Warrior | Bleeding Hollow
Outofideas | 56 Troll Hunter | Bleeding Hollow
Killphilip | 44 Undead Priest
Rubmyhorns | 80 Tauren Druid | Bleeding Hollow
Giventofly | 82 Dwarf Paladin | Argent Dawn
Ayn | 82 Human Mage | Argent Dawn
Sevendeuce | 71 Undead Warlock | Bleeding Hollow
Nyadnar | 70 Orc Warrior | Bleeding Hollow
Outofideas | 56 Troll Hunter | Bleeding Hollow
Killphilip | 44 Undead Priest
I kinda missed the boat on this thread, as I've been away for the last little while -- but I'll contribute this, some of which has already been offered.
Warriors have a higher base HP. Meaning, if you took all of their gear off and removed all of the Stamina that they got from levelling 1-80 they would have a notably higher HP. Paladins gain more HP through each point of Stamina than Warriors.
Both compare fairly equally in terms of Avoidence potential, mitigation from armor, etc. Our block mechanics are different, whereby they are Block Capped half of the time (where they block a bit less than double the damage) and we are Block Capped 100% of the time and have a slightly higher (about 500 usually) Block Value than they have without procs. Meaning -- despite having a little less HP, each point of our HP counts for more than each point of their HP.
Now -- with patch 3.0.8 we got a bit of a Stamina boost which actually brings us up very close to Warriors. In fact, the only thing that keeps them ahead (while geared) now -- with things like professions being equal -- is their ranged weapon slot. Without it, it's not hard for us to surpass them in equal gear with raid buffs that contribute to Stamina, a stat which is more friendly to us than them.
Does it all matter? No. Both can handle anything that's out there. As can Death Knights and Druids. They all do it differently, but it all works.
Warriors have a higher base HP. Meaning, if you took all of their gear off and removed all of the Stamina that they got from levelling 1-80 they would have a notably higher HP. Paladins gain more HP through each point of Stamina than Warriors.
Both compare fairly equally in terms of Avoidence potential, mitigation from armor, etc. Our block mechanics are different, whereby they are Block Capped half of the time (where they block a bit less than double the damage) and we are Block Capped 100% of the time and have a slightly higher (about 500 usually) Block Value than they have without procs. Meaning -- despite having a little less HP, each point of our HP counts for more than each point of their HP.
Now -- with patch 3.0.8 we got a bit of a Stamina boost which actually brings us up very close to Warriors. In fact, the only thing that keeps them ahead (while geared) now -- with things like professions being equal -- is their ranged weapon slot. Without it, it's not hard for us to surpass them in equal gear with raid buffs that contribute to Stamina, a stat which is more friendly to us than them.
Does it all matter? No. Both can handle anything that's out there. As can Death Knights and Druids. They all do it differently, but it all works.
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AynLoD Wrote:
Quote:
Also, since this analysis has been based on mostly anecdotal evidence, let's not forget that you'll never see a Tauren pally, whereas you see quite a few Tauren warriors because of their racial stam bonus.
It's my understanding that ONLY Blood Elves can roll a horde Paly.
Most things you worry about never happen anyway.
JamisonP wrote:
Also remember that one source of the health difference is that a pally and warrior cannot show up in the same gear. We're using a libram with a BV proc when we judge, they (should) have a gun with massive stam and some avoidance stats on it. While I love the emblem libram, I'd trade it for an armor plated combat shotgun in a heartbeat.
Personally, I prefer the 253 average block value libram over the 66 stam/21 def gun.
286 if you get 2/2 Imp Judgement and prioritize judging.
Edited, Mar 9th 2009 9:14am by Ehcks
Ehcks wrote:
Personally, I prefer the 253 average block value libram over the 66 stam/21 def gun.
72 stamina (socket bonus +6 stamina)/21 def/18 hit rating, assuming you're using a rare/blue gem. It's a pretty nice gun. :)
Borsuk wrote:
AynLoD Wrote:
Quote:
Also, since this analysis has been based on mostly anecdotal evidence, let's not forget that you'll never see a Tauren pally, whereas you see quite a few Tauren warriors because of their racial stam bonus.
It's my understanding that ONLY Blood Elves can roll a horde Paly.
And, as such, you will never see a tauren pally.
Quote:
72 stamina (socket bonus +6 stamina)/21 def/18 hit rating, assuming you're using a rare/blue gem. It's a pretty nice gun. :)
It really is pretty nice, not so much from a pure stam point of view, but its 21 def that they don't have to gem/chant for. Be nice if we ever got a libram with a passive stat as well as an on ability use.
I <3 hit rating when it's on a good defensive piece too.
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