Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

No damage tax in 2.3!!Follow

#1 Sep 26 2007 at 2:58 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
3,761 posts
Quote:
Drysc wrote:

Obliterated. Damage coefficient reduction removed from Improved Fireball/Frostbolt.




http://www.curse.com/articles/details/3199/


Also nice changes to Evocate (15% of mana every 2 second tick, with the current guaranteed 4 ticks added in 2.2), and we get a nice little vending machine too (ie: food/water soulwell) =)

Quote:
It's called Ritual of Refreshment and will allow players to pick up their own stacks of food/water, similar to a Soulwell.
#2 Sep 26 2007 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
64 posts
How does this water well thing work? Will i make waters and put them in some kind of bag that everyone can draw from? This is great new! Passing out food and water is a B

-V
#3 Sep 26 2007 at 5:07 PM Rating: Decent
so basically spirit will go from semi useless to completely useless, we'll be doing even more dmg and giving people water wont be such a pain, sounds like
a good patch in my book
____________________________
Dales
-80 rogue on Blood Furnace

Vanish IRL
#4 Sep 26 2007 at 5:10 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
794 posts
the ritual will create something like a cauldron which should function like a chest of sorts...

inside will be stacks and stacks of food and water. since it contains both food and water (which is what is being said out there, as much as this is nice and all I would hate to have to make 2 big things when I could just make one larder and be done with it).

10% dmg tax removal is HUGE. Unfortunately, it also means that we are back to normal.... hopefully 10/48/3 does not become an abuseable spec or we might get a nerf somewhere else.

I still want some more synergy though, lack of synergy is the suck....
____________________________
Rejoice. For very bad things are about to happen...
bodhisattva, Defender of Justice wrote:

The first week he was all "ZOMG just happy to be here, killing bosses! I just want to raid", 2nd week there was grumbling, 3rd week he is about ready to emoplode


tigole wrote:
You won't like the ones made to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other classes are all overpowered.
#5 Sep 26 2007 at 7:41 PM Rating: Default
*
63 posts
The change to evocation would be a massive nerf to pve mages.

I dont understand how removing the damage coefficient with improved fireball will help us.

Edited, Sep 26th 2007 11:43pm by tuvollation

Edited, Sep 26th 2007 11:43pm by tuvollation

Edited, Sep 27th 2007 12:06am by tuvollation
#6 Sep 26 2007 at 7:50 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
794 posts
tuvollation wrote:
The change to evocation would be a massice nerf to pve mages.


I would get around say 70% mana back with a spirit stick and wand while fully buffed. Now a fixed 60% off based mana sounds like a nerf but granted that if you mistime evocate in combat you waste 1 tick at least. This patch already settles the problem of lost ticks.

There is also a change for spirit doing something extra that is in the works for 2.3 or 2.3.1, there is no word on what it is though so do not hold your breath on that one.
____________________________
Rejoice. For very bad things are about to happen...
bodhisattva, Defender of Justice wrote:

The first week he was all "ZOMG just happy to be here, killing bosses! I just want to raid", 2nd week there was grumbling, 3rd week he is about ready to emoplode


tigole wrote:
You won't like the ones made to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other classes are all overpowered.
#7 Sep 26 2007 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
****
8,272 posts
holy f-ing crap, thank god.
____________________________
Anobix and Brutusbukeye of <Imprimis> of US-Stormscale
Progress: TBC: Clear. WotLK: Clear -25HLK. Cata: 85 and Unsubscribed!
How to Use Rawr
#8 Sep 26 2007 at 9:43 PM Rating: Good
Citizen's Arrest!
Avatar
******
29,465 posts
I'm crying tears of happy!


Really, really I am.
#9 Sep 27 2007 at 4:41 AM Rating: Good
**
501 posts
Because I knew that I would be depressed if I knew what I was missing, I never learned about the damage tax.

Now that it is coming back, could someone explain what it is (in layman's terms), how it has been gimping me, and what I can expect to see when it is taken away. I am already a 10/48/3 mage, so I am excited that I may be getting a buff.

Thanks!

Edited, Sep 27th 2007 8:41am by NCspaz
____________________________
for the
╔╗║║¤╔╗╔╗╔═╔╗
╠╣║║║╠╣║║║ ╠╝
║║╚╚║║║║║╚═╚═

(stolen from Kelnoen)
#10 Sep 27 2007 at 5:05 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,262 posts
This is awesome, and it will cause much QQing in other forums. I was on vent last night with our GM who stated, "Mages have never been nerfed"... and "Mages are OverPowered"...

Now, keep in mind this was coming from a warrior (who gets pwned by frost mages because he's PvE spec). Still... I mentioned the 10% damage tax and he said it was a "correction", not a nerf. I told him that in the higher instances, rogues and locks seriously out-dps mages of equal gear. The response to that was something along the lines of "you need to l2play your class", although stated much more nicely.

Now with the damage tax being removed, I expect his QQ to increase exponentially, but I'd rather have the tax gone than to have less QQ.

OMFG, doing a happy dance!


NCspaz:

The 10% damage tax is basically a reduction in the damage coefficient when you chose either improved frostbolt or improved fireball. You come out ahead by picking those talents, but now you'll come out way ahead (as before the nerf).
____________________________
Quote:
And so, may Evil beware and may Good dress warmly and eat plenty of fresh vegetables.

--
Dethgar -- Lvl 80 Human Warlock
Steelyheart -- Lvl 80 Dwarf Paladin
Tangent -- Lvl 80 Human Mage
#11 Sep 27 2007 at 6:28 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
78 posts
Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you !!!!!!!!! NO MORE 10% REDUCTION!!! I LOVE IT!!!!1
____________________________
I think North is a little power crazy...

NorthAI wrote:
North: Go kill that thing!
Revan: ... are you stupid? It's a giant!
North: Obey!

Churler wrote:
Male humans run like autistic kids chasing an armadillo.


Nezoia from MMO-champ :P wrote:
Both sides were retarded.


Emochick 10K HP Pee Pee
17/0/44 369 Resil Vee Mage :D


#12 Sep 27 2007 at 7:03 AM Rating: Default
*
195 posts
I have a question. There was something about +spell damage affecting the damage absorbed by ice barrier. Anyone care to elaborate?

Also, NO DAMAGE TAX!! AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA! THE FOOLS! AHAHAHAHA! THE POWER!!!!
____________________________
OFFICIAL BLIZZARD DESCRIPTION OF THE DEATH KNIGHT

The Death Knight: A class that has complete control over the force known as death, they can manipulate it's powers to their every whim. At level X, they learn a spell called "Death," which is an instant cast spell with no cooldown that instantly drains all life force from a target, killing them. Also, since they can control death, they cannot be killed.
#13 Sep 27 2007 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
Citizen's Arrest!
Avatar
******
29,465 posts
ktangent wrote:
The 10% damage tax is basically a reduction in the damage coefficient when you chose either improved frostbolt or improved fireball. You come out ahead by picking those talents, but now you'll come out way ahead (as before the nerf).


Indeed. It came about because the devs tested mages in Spellfire gear versus other DPS in Kara gear, which SUCKED BAD at the time(this was before they buffed Kara gear). Mages naturally did a ridiculous amount more damage and were consequently nerfed.

When people started getting equivalent gear, mages started dropping way behind the pack.
#14 Sep 27 2007 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
**
501 posts
Well thanks for the explanations....I have been trying to build up my gear. Up until now, I have been using a mix of kara, PvP, and Battlecast set.

Yesterday, I started leveling my tailoring and plan on getting the Spellfire/Spellstrike set. I noticed that it doesn't have the stamina (obviously) of my current set-up.

My calculations will put my HP around 6100. My damage, crit, and hit will be ridiculous, though. How do you guys get around not having enough HP?

Sorry for the hijack!

Edit: my profile: Click!

Edited, Sep 27th 2007 2:38pm by NCspaz
____________________________
for the
╔╗║║¤╔╗╔╗╔═╔╗
╠╣║║║╠╣║║║ ╠╝
║║╚╚║║║║║╚═╚═

(stolen from Kelnoen)
#15 Sep 27 2007 at 1:12 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
428 posts
Whoa whoa whoa. So in the next patch, my Improved fireballs will effectively do 10% more dmg? What exactly is meant by coefficient in this context?

Without factoring in the adjustment that currently exists, losing .5 seconds off your cast time raises dps by 16.66% I believe. Are you telling me that, due to the current coefficent reduction, the dps boost is really only:

16.66% - 10% = 6.66%?

Or is it 10% less than 16.66%:

16.66% * (1-adjustment) = 16.66% * 90% = 15%?

Or is it, you know, something else altogether. /cornfused
____________________________
Mccready | 85 Human Rogue | Argent Dawn
Rubmyhorns | 80 Tauren Druid | Bleeding Hollow
Giventofly | 82 Dwarf Paladin | Argent Dawn
Ayn | 82 Human Mage | Argent Dawn
Sevendeuce | 71 Undead Warlock | Bleeding Hollow
Nyadnar | 70 Orc Warrior | Bleeding Hollow
Outofideas | 56 Troll Hunter | Bleeding Hollow
Killphilip | 44 Undead Priest
#16 Sep 27 2007 at 6:30 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
794 posts
simply put, fireball is supposed to get 100% bonus from spell damage.
having the improved fireball talent cuts that bonus from 100% to 90%.
Having the EMPOWERED fireball talent kinda puts it back on par.

(100% + (3 * 3%)) * (100% - (5 *2%))
= 115% * 90% = 103.5%

when the bonus from 5/5 empowered fireball should have been 115%, as such the 10% tax has an effect on empowered fireball as well making it a total of 12% reduction of bonus damage. Without the imp. fireball talent which means your dps will be lower anyway but with the tax mages were doing significantly less damage than their peers.
____________________________
Rejoice. For very bad things are about to happen...
bodhisattva, Defender of Justice wrote:

The first week he was all "ZOMG just happy to be here, killing bosses! I just want to raid", 2nd week there was grumbling, 3rd week he is about ready to emoplode


tigole wrote:
You won't like the ones made to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other classes are all overpowered.
#17 Sep 27 2007 at 6:33 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,245 posts
ONE: http://www.wowblues.com/eu/upcoming-changes-for-the-mage-class-1017251724.html

Here is a little more mage goodness.

TWO:

The coefficient that we're talking about, being the damage tax, is the Bonus Spell Damage coefficient.

Most spells have a certain % gained from Spell Damage gear. This is why it always says "Increases Spell Damage and Healing by up to 75" or whatever. Generally, longer casts have higher coefficients, which means they get more effect from the bonus spell damage. DoTs and HoTs (I'm sure of the latter, not of the former) get 100% spell coefficients because, even though they're instant casts, the effect's duration usually is longer than a 3.5 second cast.

Here's a good way to see it: http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_Damage_Coefficients

Apparently, someone already updated this page for 2.3
____________________________
Zepoodle: [responding to suggestion of evolving WoW] Undead starting quests now involve torturing small animals. Blood Elf starting quests now consist of visiting strip clubs in Silvermoon and having hashish orgies. The Argent Dawn retires and gets into banking. Mograine's son becomes a worthless alcoholic devastated by his uselessness in a world that has moved on. Instead of "Turn Undead," paladins get "Hammertime", which forces the targeted player to dance uncontrollably for 20 seconds.
#18 Sep 27 2007 at 10:14 PM Rating: Good
****
8,272 posts
NCspaz wrote:
Well thanks for the explanations....I have been trying to build up my gear. Up until now, I have been using a mix of kara, PvP, and Battlecast set.

Yesterday, I started leveling my tailoring and plan on getting the Spellfire/Spellstrike set. I noticed that it doesn't have the stamina (obviously) of my current set-up.

My calculations will put my HP around 6100. My damage, crit, and hit will be ridiculous, though. How do you guys get around not having enough HP?

Sorry for the hijack!

Edit: my profile: Click!

Edited, Sep 27th 2007 2:38pm by NCspaz


To quickly reply to this, I have different sets of gear for different situations. When I need a bit more mana/hp I put on a couple pieces of my t4 (I swap out my spellstrike for it), when being hit isn't too much of an issue (or shouldn't be) I will wear spellfire/spellstrike.
____________________________
Anobix and Brutusbukeye of <Imprimis> of US-Stormscale
Progress: TBC: Clear. WotLK: Clear -25HLK. Cata: 85 and Unsubscribed!
How to Use Rawr
#19 Oct 01 2007 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
86 posts
Oh my God. I'm gonna die, this is AWESOME! Woo! I'm hyper now (might be from the Monster I just drank, but who cares?!) I love my life now!

POWAH TO TEH MAGES!!1!1!!1!

ExPerson
____________________________
Realm: Nordrassil

Anomalie: 70 Undead Mage
Ridley: 33 Blood Elf Warlock
Limbless: 19 Undead Rogue
Nagain: 18 Orc Warrior
Monies: 14 Tauren Druid

Realm: Dunemaul

Victum: 24 Undead Priest
#20 Oct 01 2007 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
*
248 posts
Tax removed at last - good news. Yet, as always, the buff is coubled with a nerf (to PvE, buff to PvP tho). Still, as long as they replace the spirit on mage sets I promise not to whine.
____________________________
6/6 SSC 4/4 TK 3/5 HS 3/9 BT
Kavek 70 Mage, Genjuros EU
(I am not Greek)
#21 Oct 03 2007 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,245 posts
Here's what the link says for those who missed it:

Here is a small list of changes to the Mage class that are expected to be implemented in the next content patch:

* Fire Ward and Frost Ward now gain additional benefit from spell damage bonuses. Base absorb values of ranks 5 and 6 have been reduced.

* Ice Barrier now gains additional benefit from spell damage bonuses. Base absorb values of ranks 5 and 6 have been reduced.

* Detect Magic removed. All players may now see their target's beneficial effects at all times.

* Arcane Meditation (Arcane) increased to 10/20/30% mana regeneration.

* Evocation now regenerates 15% of total mana every 2 seconds rather than increase Spirit based regeneration.

* (NEW SPELL) Ritual of Refreshment available on trainers at level 70.

* Improved Fireball: The reduction in damage coefficient caused by this talent has been removed.

* Improved Frostbolt: The reduction in damage coefficient caused by this talent has been removed.
____________________________
Zepoodle: [responding to suggestion of evolving WoW] Undead starting quests now involve torturing small animals. Blood Elf starting quests now consist of visiting strip clubs in Silvermoon and having hashish orgies. The Argent Dawn retires and gets into banking. Mograine's son becomes a worthless alcoholic devastated by his uselessness in a world that has moved on. Instead of "Turn Undead," paladins get "Hammertime", which forces the targeted player to dance uncontrollably for 20 seconds.
#22 Oct 04 2007 at 7:12 AM Rating: Decent
Actually, this isn't a buff. This is a removal of a nerf. It's about time, because I have been cutting way back on WoW time due to watching other classes kill me on the dps charts even though I am similarly geared and always topped them or ran neck and neck before the nerf. Yay run-on sentence. =)
____________________________
Maximumcat 67 Beastlord
Saryrn
#23 Oct 08 2007 at 6:38 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
794 posts
In line with 2.3, I have been toying with the idea of going out of 10/48/3 to this Build for raiding with arcane meditation

any comments? No elemental precision bugs me a little or should I just make the push towards arcane? I should be able to complete my spellfire set soon.
____________________________
Rejoice. For very bad things are about to happen...
bodhisattva, Defender of Justice wrote:

The first week he was all "ZOMG just happy to be here, killing bosses! I just want to raid", 2nd week there was grumbling, 3rd week he is about ready to emoplode


tigole wrote:
You won't like the ones made to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other classes are all overpowered.
#24 Oct 08 2007 at 6:46 PM Rating: Decent
**
470 posts
I'm so excited for this new patch. Hopefuly I'll be 70 by then, and I get to really enjoy all the benefits this brings!

This new patch will also help me get some of my alts going up, past 10 and 20 lol.
____________________________
Mage | Druid
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 0 All times are in CDT