Hey guys-
So as the subject says, I'm another sucker who took LW, thinking that it would be an awesome profession (because logically, it SHOULD be). I'm going to change to enchanting as soon as I get some money. I've read numerous (and repeated) posts and agree that LW is a horrible prof, but to differ from other recent posts, my question is:
Has there been any news on Blizz "reworking" (ie making it a viable prof) LW?
No one is going to argue that it's the worst profession in the game and if you do you've been mislead by the same rationale that made me choose it in the first place.
Primal Strike is nice, yes but it's completely and entirely replaceable by an enormous amount of gear. Mid levels- yes, you create some decent gear but all of it is available (usually very inexpensively) in the AH.
Blacksmithing gets damn nice maces- if they're your thing, go for it. Otherwise it's pretty worthless for Rogues (but for other classes it's awesome).
Engineering gets nice goggles and pvp/crowd help.
Tailoring...if you don't know how good tailoring is for clothies read more threads.
Enchanting is just awesome.
Jewelcrafting you get a nice trinket for stealth (that's replaceable, but nice when you get it) and some rather snazzy rings/necklaces in addition to getting your gems cut for free and being a boon to your guild.
Alchemy has obvious benefits for everyone, rogues of course included.
So what are they going to do to make LW a REAL profession? Does the fact that past 40 we're the only class that wears leather really mean that LW is the last thing on Blizz's mind(s)?
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Eh, i got LW to 375, I can make some decent money on epic patterns, but half the time i dont have primals on me cause i don't run heroics too often.
I actually dropped skinning to pick up enchanting and PL'd it up to 296 so far. (The leather market is useless on horde side anetheron so i stopped trying to use it as a moneymaker. (1g ea for thick clefthoofs for example)
I already made my primalstrike set so almost all my LW is done for other people in which they supply the mats so I wasn't too worried about it. I also have an RL friend whose account I can play and he is skinning on it as a gathering skill only.
The drums are pretty nice though, people get surprised when a rogue fears them :)
as for news about changes, haven't heard anything, I wouldn't expect much until WOTLK though.
Edited, Aug 20th 2007 1:03:12pm by TseTsuo
I actually dropped skinning to pick up enchanting and PL'd it up to 296 so far. (The leather market is useless on horde side anetheron so i stopped trying to use it as a moneymaker. (1g ea for thick clefthoofs for example)
I already made my primalstrike set so almost all my LW is done for other people in which they supply the mats so I wasn't too worried about it. I also have an RL friend whose account I can play and he is skinning on it as a gathering skill only.
The drums are pretty nice though, people get surprised when a rogue fears them :)
as for news about changes, haven't heard anything, I wouldn't expect much until WOTLK though.
Edited, Aug 20th 2007 1:03:12pm by TseTsuo
I'm currently a miner/blacksmith right now and I was considering dropping mining to powerlevel leatherworking to 375 as we're starting to get into The Eye and SSC right now and the swift strike stuff looks really nice.
Haven't quite decided yet.
Haven't quite decided yet.
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KnifeInUrEye wrote:
Does the fact that past 40 we're the only class that wears leather really mean that LW is the last thing on Blizz's mind(s)?
First, Druids also use leather.
Second, if you keep leatherworking up to your level so your making gear at exactly or only slightly lower than you it is not bad at all, ex. Earthen Shoulders or whatever, they are only level 22 I think and get 7 stam, something not really beat for several levels.
Last, there are specific "trees" you can go into, Elemental for feral druids and rogues, Dragonscale for hunters and shaman (they progress to mail so thats what you can make), and Tribal for balance/resto druids. If you go elemental your gonna make some pretty nice armor that your gonna like.
Yeah...sorry, completely forgot about Druids for some reason. In any event, however, that's beside the actual point of the post; it being to garner any news or insight as to updates from Blizz regarding LW as a profession.
To your points, though-
1. already addressed. my bad, i forgot about druids somehow.
2 and 3- Yes, if you keep LW to your level you make decent armor for your level. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, first, that there is vastly better armor than what you can make out there (as opposed to tailors, for instance) and second that all the "good armor for your level" can be bought cheap as hell in the AH. Right now i can buy a Nightscape Headband for 50s in the AH on my server. 50s! for a lvl 38 helm with +12sta/+12agil? No contest. I'd rather get a profession i can actually use (and make money on) than LW. I'll buy the cheap armor when i need it.
Bottom line- Leather armor levels decently until a certain point (say...at or around 40) when TONS of new, and often vastly better, armor is made available to you at which point your entire profession that you spent money leveling is trash.
To your points, though-
1. already addressed. my bad, i forgot about druids somehow.
2 and 3- Yes, if you keep LW to your level you make decent armor for your level. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, first, that there is vastly better armor than what you can make out there (as opposed to tailors, for instance) and second that all the "good armor for your level" can be bought cheap as hell in the AH. Right now i can buy a Nightscape Headband for 50s in the AH on my server. 50s! for a lvl 38 helm with +12sta/+12agil? No contest. I'd rather get a profession i can actually use (and make money on) than LW. I'll buy the cheap armor when i need it.
Bottom line- Leather armor levels decently until a certain point (say...at or around 40) when TONS of new, and often vastly better, armor is made available to you at which point your entire profession that you spent money leveling is trash.
Sounds like you just have a crappy server for LW. On one of my horde alts (Gurubashi) I can literally buy all the stacks of light leather under 75s and the light and cured light hides for 2g per stack and still make a lot of money. I know this is still very low (under 150) LW but I'm hoping it stays like this.
There was a bug with the Stormshroud Set where if you had the 2 piece set bonus the nature proc would break gouge.
The damage is added after you attack, so effectively it goes something like:
You gouge,
Enemy is afflicted by gouge,
Stormstrike set bonus procs,
Gouge is removed
Not sure if Blizz has done anything about this but they are "aware" of the problem. At least I paged a GM about it who said as much. Just something to keep in mind since if you can come across the Stormshroud kit pretty easily it is worth having for Mutilate grinding since the Critical strike bonus is decent. But as you may be aware of - mutilate can be very unforgiving if your Kidney Shot is dodged/parried/misses & then your gouge is broken by a goddam set bonus proc. Throwing a blind is always good in that kind of situation since you can bandage & then get a mutilate off during blind... And don't quote me on this, but since blind is a "poison" the debuff should technically give your Mutilate the bonus damage, although again, I'm not sure about that one.
The damage is added after you attack, so effectively it goes something like:
You gouge,
Enemy is afflicted by gouge,
Stormstrike set bonus procs,
Gouge is removed
Not sure if Blizz has done anything about this but they are "aware" of the problem. At least I paged a GM about it who said as much. Just something to keep in mind since if you can come across the Stormshroud kit pretty easily it is worth having for Mutilate grinding since the Critical strike bonus is decent. But as you may be aware of - mutilate can be very unforgiving if your Kidney Shot is dodged/parried/misses & then your gouge is broken by a goddam set bonus proc. Throwing a blind is always good in that kind of situation since you can bandage & then get a mutilate off during blind... And don't quote me on this, but since blind is a "poison" the debuff should technically give your Mutilate the bonus damage, although again, I'm not sure about that one.
I actually dropped 375 Enchanting to level LW. I just hut 375 and am about to craft my Primalstrike set.
Of course for me, Enchanting was no longer useful since my gear changes so little these days I don't often need enchanting.
The Primalstrike offers me more DPS than Kara epics and, further down the line, will offer me some of the best items in the game.
Of course if money is a problem for you, then take a profession you feel you will make money on. I never take profs to make money, merely those which serve me best (e.g. Engineering for the goggles, LW for the Primalstrike set.)
I am finding LW more enjoyable then Enchanting though, and it looks to be a better business on my server than Enchanting.
Of course for me, Enchanting was no longer useful since my gear changes so little these days I don't often need enchanting.
The Primalstrike offers me more DPS than Kara epics and, further down the line, will offer me some of the best items in the game.
Of course if money is a problem for you, then take a profession you feel you will make money on. I never take profs to make money, merely those which serve me best (e.g. Engineering for the goggles, LW for the Primalstrike set.)
I am finding LW more enjoyable then Enchanting though, and it looks to be a better business on my server than Enchanting.
Kindeythelf - Lvl 70 Undead Rogue - Earthen Ring (Europe)
I do agree that LW isn't very viable until you get better rep with some factions (Thrallmar I believe) to get the Clefthide and Cobrahide leg armor. You can make 150G EASY on the AH selling those and not to mention once you get some really nice leggings, you can put a pretty huge buff on them with the clefthide and cobrahide armor. Clefthide gives you a +30(40?)stam and +10agi and cobrahide gives you +40atkpwr and +10Crit. Very, very much worth it IMO.
FOR THE HORDE!!!
An eye for an eye makes the whole world.....EQUAL!!!
Chars: Hakker, Lv. 70 Rogue on the Twisting Nether
Starscream, brand spankin new Tauren Warrior - Twisting Nether
Pinkbullet wrote:
what if a tauren and a gnome mated? O_O
Dead gnome methinks.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Twisting%20Nether&n=Hakker
An eye for an eye makes the whole world.....EQUAL!!!
Chars: Hakker, Lv. 70 Rogue on the Twisting Nether
Starscream, brand spankin new Tauren Warrior - Twisting Nether
Pinkbullet wrote:
what if a tauren and a gnome mated? O_O
Dead gnome methinks.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Twisting%20Nether&n=Hakker
Quote:
I do agree that LW isn't very viable until you get better rep with some factions (Thrallmar I believe) to get the Clefthide and Cobrahide leg armor. You can make 150G EASY on the AH selling those and not to mention once you get some really nice leggings, you can put a pretty huge buff on them with the clefthide and cobrahide armor. Clefthide gives you a +30(40?)stam and +10agi and cobrahide gives you +40atkpwr and +10Crit. Very, very much worth it IMO.
This is a very bad reason to take Leatherworking nonetheless, seeing as all the armor kits are BoE and can be bought on the AH.
Yeah but why buy them when you can make them and sell them?
FOR THE HORDE!!!
An eye for an eye makes the whole world.....EQUAL!!!
Chars: Hakker, Lv. 70 Rogue on the Twisting Nether
Starscream, brand spankin new Tauren Warrior - Twisting Nether
Pinkbullet wrote:
what if a tauren and a gnome mated? O_O
Dead gnome methinks.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Twisting%20Nether&n=Hakker
An eye for an eye makes the whole world.....EQUAL!!!
Chars: Hakker, Lv. 70 Rogue on the Twisting Nether
Starscream, brand spankin new Tauren Warrior - Twisting Nether
Pinkbullet wrote:
what if a tauren and a gnome mated? O_O
Dead gnome methinks.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Twisting%20Nether&n=Hakker
Because the mats usually cost more than the finished product.
Leatherworking is useless, I am thoroughly convinced. I should be making money on ores and such.
Leatherworking is useless, I am thoroughly convinced. I should be making money on ores and such.
Biohacker- you're making my point for me. You're selling these in the AH for an "easy" 150g?
4 Heavy Knothide Leather - at roughly 4g a piece = 16g
2 Cobrascales - at roughly 30g a piece = 60g
4 Primal Air - at roughly 25g a piece = 100g
= 176g (aka- you just lost 26g by creating the item).
So we find, as is evident all over these forums- Crafting professions COST money while gathering professions provide (usually vastly) MORE money.
However- once you're LW skill is that high, yes, you can get a pretty nice enchant for your legs...OR I can buy your enchant from you for 26g less than the materials cost, AND i can keep my cooler profession to, say, enchant my rings or make myself some of the best pvp maces or JC cut some gems or or or etc.
4 Heavy Knothide Leather - at roughly 4g a piece = 16g
2 Cobrascales - at roughly 30g a piece = 60g
4 Primal Air - at roughly 25g a piece = 100g
= 176g (aka- you just lost 26g by creating the item).
So we find, as is evident all over these forums- Crafting professions COST money while gathering professions provide (usually vastly) MORE money.
However- once you're LW skill is that high, yes, you can get a pretty nice enchant for your legs...OR I can buy your enchant from you for 26g less than the materials cost, AND i can keep my cooler profession to, say, enchant my rings or make myself some of the best pvp maces or JC cut some gems or or or etc.
I don't think I can count the number of threads that state "gathering prof ftw!!" I am actually quite sick of seeing it. It is a commonly known fact that if all you do is gather and sell you will make money. There is no reason to keep repeating it on every thread where someone starts talking about crafting.
Some people enjoy doing a crafting profession and are interested in a larger game experience than having "all the money in the world"...of Warcraft. I currently have characters of every race, class, and profession.
The way I see it, play your character the way you want to play it, but I don't think it is fair to call someone who took LWing on a Rogue a sucker. That is just how they decided they would enjoy the game.
Some people enjoy doing a crafting profession and are interested in a larger game experience than having "all the money in the world"...of Warcraft. I currently have characters of every race, class, and profession.
The way I see it, play your character the way you want to play it, but I don't think it is fair to call someone who took LWing on a Rogue a sucker. That is just how they decided they would enjoy the game.
KnifeInUrEye wrote:
Biohacker- you're making my point for me. You're selling these in the AH for an "easy" 150g?
4 Heavy Knothide Leather - at roughly 4g a piece = 16g
2 Cobrascales - at roughly 30g a piece = 60g
4 Primal Air - at roughly 25g a piece = 100g
= 176g (aka- you just lost 26g by creating the item).
So we find, as is evident all over these forums- Crafting professions COST money while gathering professions provide (usually vastly) MORE money.
However- once you're LW skill is that high, yes, you can get a pretty nice enchant for your legs...OR I can buy your enchant from you for 26g less than the materials cost, AND i can keep my cooler profession to, say, enchant my rings or make myself some of the best pvp maces or JC cut some gems or or or etc.
4 Heavy Knothide Leather - at roughly 4g a piece = 16g
2 Cobrascales - at roughly 30g a piece = 60g
4 Primal Air - at roughly 25g a piece = 100g
= 176g (aka- you just lost 26g by creating the item).
So we find, as is evident all over these forums- Crafting professions COST money while gathering professions provide (usually vastly) MORE money.
However- once you're LW skill is that high, yes, you can get a pretty nice enchant for your legs...OR I can buy your enchant from you for 26g less than the materials cost, AND i can keep my cooler profession to, say, enchant my rings or make myself some of the best pvp maces or JC cut some gems or or or etc.
This is entirely true, unless you farm some (or all) of the mats yourself. Besides, if everybody took this approach, there would be nobody around to make the damn stuff!
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.
I took LW, and I still don't know why I'm pushing it to 375 (a few levels to go). There just isn't much I can make, a few drums, a couple pieces of decent gear, a few epic patterns where the cost of mats ensures you'll never make money.
I'll never drop it though. I can make money well enough doing other things, I don't really need two gathering professions, although it is extremely easier. Guildies can use a few of the items I make, the drums can be situationally nice. Nothing too special, but I'll hold onto it until WotLK lets me level it a bit more, maybe LW will get some love.
That said, it could still be worse. Just look at engineering.
I'll never drop it though. I can make money well enough doing other things, I don't really need two gathering professions, although it is extremely easier. Guildies can use a few of the items I make, the drums can be situationally nice. Nothing too special, but I'll hold onto it until WotLK lets me level it a bit more, maybe LW will get some love.
That said, it could still be worse. Just look at engineering.
Stunlocked - Hakkar Server US (Retired) 70 Rogue
Wartortle - Blackrock Server US (Active Main) 80 Death Knight (Frost, Tank)
Wartortle - Blackrock Server US (Active Main) 80 Death Knight (Frost, Tank)
Quote:
Biohacker- you're making my point for me. You're selling these in the AH for an "easy" 150g?
4 Heavy Knothide Leather - at roughly 4g a piece = 16g
2 Cobrascales - at roughly 30g a piece = 60g
4 Primal Air - at roughly 25g a piece = 100g
= 176g (aka- you just lost 26g by creating the item).
So we find, as is evident all over these forums- Crafting professions COST money while gathering professions provide (usually vastly) MORE money.
However- once you're LW skill is that high, yes, you can get a pretty nice enchant for your legs...OR I can buy your enchant from you for 26g less than the materials cost, AND i can keep my cooler profession to, say, enchant my rings or make myself some of the best pvp maces or JC cut some gems or or or etc.
4 Heavy Knothide Leather - at roughly 4g a piece = 16g
2 Cobrascales - at roughly 30g a piece = 60g
4 Primal Air - at roughly 25g a piece = 100g
= 176g (aka- you just lost 26g by creating the item).
So we find, as is evident all over these forums- Crafting professions COST money while gathering professions provide (usually vastly) MORE money.
However- once you're LW skill is that high, yes, you can get a pretty nice enchant for your legs...OR I can buy your enchant from you for 26g less than the materials cost, AND i can keep my cooler profession to, say, enchant my rings or make myself some of the best pvp maces or JC cut some gems or or or etc.
So uhh.....FARM!! Its not that difficult.
FOR THE HORDE!!!
An eye for an eye makes the whole world.....EQUAL!!!
Chars: Hakker, Lv. 70 Rogue on the Twisting Nether
Starscream, brand spankin new Tauren Warrior - Twisting Nether
Pinkbullet wrote:
what if a tauren and a gnome mated? O_O
Dead gnome methinks.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Twisting%20Nether&n=Hakker
An eye for an eye makes the whole world.....EQUAL!!!
Chars: Hakker, Lv. 70 Rogue on the Twisting Nether
Starscream, brand spankin new Tauren Warrior - Twisting Nether
Pinkbullet wrote:
what if a tauren and a gnome mated? O_O
Dead gnome methinks.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Twisting%20Nether&n=Hakker
BiOhAcKeR wrote:
Quote:
Biohacker- you're making my point for me. You're selling these in the AH for an "easy" 150g?
4 Heavy Knothide Leather - at roughly 4g a piece = 16g
2 Cobrascales - at roughly 30g a piece = 60g
4 Primal Air - at roughly 25g a piece = 100g
= 176g (aka- you just lost 26g by creating the item).
So we find, as is evident all over these forums- Crafting professions COST money while gathering professions provide (usually vastly) MORE money.
However- once you're LW skill is that high, yes, you can get a pretty nice enchant for your legs...OR I can buy your enchant from you for 26g less than the materials cost, AND i can keep my cooler profession to, say, enchant my rings or make myself some of the best pvp maces or JC cut some gems or or or etc.
4 Heavy Knothide Leather - at roughly 4g a piece = 16g
2 Cobrascales - at roughly 30g a piece = 60g
4 Primal Air - at roughly 25g a piece = 100g
= 176g (aka- you just lost 26g by creating the item).
So we find, as is evident all over these forums- Crafting professions COST money while gathering professions provide (usually vastly) MORE money.
However- once you're LW skill is that high, yes, you can get a pretty nice enchant for your legs...OR I can buy your enchant from you for 26g less than the materials cost, AND i can keep my cooler profession to, say, enchant my rings or make myself some of the best pvp maces or JC cut some gems or or or etc.
So uhh.....FARM!! Its not that difficult.
In the time taken to farm all the mats, one could easily farm something else and make a heftier profit. Therefore, by farming these mats to "make money", one is actually losing potential money.
Stunlocked - Hakkar Server US (Retired) 70 Rogue
Wartortle - Blackrock Server US (Active Main) 80 Death Knight (Frost, Tank)
Wartortle - Blackrock Server US (Active Main) 80 Death Knight (Frost, Tank)
Absolute truths:
It's always cheaper to farm mats yourself (cheaper as far as actual cost, not potential cost/revenue from buying the item and farming/selling afterwards).
Two gathering professions are nearly always going to make more money than crafting ones.
Without people crafting, the entire economy crumbles as there is no real demand for...anything.
The main point of this thread wasn't to dispute or restate any of those things (...yeah...even though I just did); it was to say that LW isn't getting any love or, to compare, as much love as other professions. LW is good for leveling, but as said it is only good up to a point (i arbitrarily chose 40) after which the gear you find is better than what you can make, and making the gear almost never nets you a profit.
To call LWers "suckers" is absolutely true. If you don't believe me look at the other professions (besides engineering which is either for fun or for pvp). Look at how tailoring gear scales. BSing stuff. JC even. Alchemy flasks?
To put it a different way- Best pvp weapon is the Dragonmaw (upgraded) mace with Mongoose on it. How many people are gonna say that the Primalstrike gear is the best...ever?
It's always cheaper to farm mats yourself (cheaper as far as actual cost, not potential cost/revenue from buying the item and farming/selling afterwards).
Two gathering professions are nearly always going to make more money than crafting ones.
Without people crafting, the entire economy crumbles as there is no real demand for...anything.
The main point of this thread wasn't to dispute or restate any of those things (...yeah...even though I just did); it was to say that LW isn't getting any love or, to compare, as much love as other professions. LW is good for leveling, but as said it is only good up to a point (i arbitrarily chose 40) after which the gear you find is better than what you can make, and making the gear almost never nets you a profit.
To call LWers "suckers" is absolutely true. If you don't believe me look at the other professions (besides engineering which is either for fun or for pvp). Look at how tailoring gear scales. BSing stuff. JC even. Alchemy flasks?
To put it a different way- Best pvp weapon is the Dragonmaw (upgraded) mace with Mongoose on it. How many people are gonna say that the Primalstrike gear is the best...ever?
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