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#27 Jan 22 2007 at 7:04 AM Rating: Good
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What stats should I be looking for on gear for Frost AOE grinding?


I would get the same kind of gear you get for a fire mage.... +int and +spirit and +stam (unless you like PvP a lot, then it's +int, +sta, +spirit). I wouldn't worry about +damage gear until you get close to 60 as with frost grinding, you do a lot of blizzarding (big manna drain) and cone of cold. The bigger your manna pool, the better.

If you came across trinkets that do +damage, or a ring had +damage, I'd pick that up, but don't sacrafice +int for +damage.

Edited, Jan 22nd 2007 9:05am by ktangent
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#28 Jan 24 2007 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
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bump for obvious reasons
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#29 Feb 02 2007 at 7:22 PM Rating: Decent
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bump sticky thiisssss

Edited, Feb 2nd 2007 10:22pm by Droa
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yes, BE males do dance like a euphorical enthusiast at a gay pride parade.
And yes, both BE sexes look a bit androginous.
If you are still thinking "omfg you're stupid for making a BE they look horrible" maybe you should go create a NE and have her pole-dance naked so you can do something smart like twiddling your privates.
#30 Feb 02 2007 at 10:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Droa wrote:
bump sticky thiisssss


We've reached the max number of stickies for this board.
#31 Feb 02 2007 at 11:01 PM Rating: Decent
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hey guys. im a noob here, but anyways, I got a lvl 49 mage right now and honestly, i dunno what i should be putting all my talents in. I know i will most likely being paying for this, but ever since i started, i mainly wanted to be a fire mage. So basically every level, I been putting every talent point into fire.

I am kind of confused how the whole 18, 21, etc arcane, fire, or frost thing work. I honestly don't know what is best for me. I am not much of a PvP person, but I do a lil bit here and there. Any help would be very much appreciated.

I am guessing that this 18, 21, etc stuff is putting a total of my talent points into one of the specific groups then putting another amount in another. Anyways... if someone can explain it in lamen terms, would be very much helpful.

Thanks
#32 Feb 02 2007 at 11:50 PM Rating: Good
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Most of the build defining talents are located such that you need 21, 31 or 41 points to get them.

For example:
Ice Block - 21 Point talent/frost
Ice Barrier - 31 point talent/frost
Water Elemental - 41 point talent/frost
Presence of Mind - 21 point talent/arcane
Arcane Power - 31 point talent/arcane
Combustion - 31 point talent/fire

This is done so that you can't get, say, Water Elemental and Presence of Mind at the same time.

Going all fire is just fine for leveling(I'm 48 points in fire right now, myself). The key is really avoiding the crap talents(for example, imp Fire Ward or whatever it's called).

Hope this helped, and if there's more info you need, please feel free to ask.
#33 Feb 03 2007 at 11:51 AM Rating: Decent
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ah yeah, that helps. Yeah i just been putting ALL my talent points into fire so I wasn't sure if I should be doing that or not. I haven't spent any really on things that are useless. Just been upping my crits and improved such and others. I dont use any arcane spells and only 2 or 3 frost spells, blizzard and frost nova, sometimes frost bolt. So I dunno if I should use remaining points on any frost talents.

Anyways, thank you for the help, pretty straight forward and I feel I'm doing alright with my talents then by sticking em all in fire.
#34 Feb 03 2007 at 12:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Dead, you'll be fine with fire. Don't go just randomly switching.

Next time the test realm is available, copy your mage into it (your "real" mage is unaffected) and respec in there to save $. Mess around w/ other builds to see what they are like.

Read read read posts in here. You may have to dig, but there is lots of good info.

Fire is really good dps and lets you cast fireballs w/out getting interrupted (much).

Frost is better for controlling your targets - hindering their movement, keeping htem off you so you can kite better - and giving you some defense.

Arcane is good for efficiency - fewer resists - instant casts - and now better dps.

Very simplified and not 100% accurate, but the above's a ballpark estimate on the three trees. If you like fire and are doing fine w/ it, just stick with it.
#35 Feb 03 2007 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
Okay, I've been having some issues with my mage. You should be able to see her build from the link in my signature. I've got her with just frost right now, because from what I've read frost is best for survivability. Up until now I've had lots of problems with death, which is really frustrating. I haven't done anything with her since she turned 20 though, I just trained and went to bed, but it looks like some of the spells I got will help, like mana shield. Where as Echou's talent suggestions are useful and interesting, he marks that the builds he suggests are useful only once you have all the points available to get the entire build. I need some suggestions for increased survivability PvE leveling until I get to 32 and can do AoE grinding. An indication of what talents to choose first would also be most helpful. Thanks in advance. :-)
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#36 Feb 04 2007 at 12:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pigtail, your build is all wrong - this is part of why you're dying too much. The other reason, I would guess from your build, is that you don't yet grasp the "right strategy" for playing a mage in pve solo grinding.

I hope I can help you here.

Mobility and control, not letting the enemy hit you: this is the core power of a frost mage. You are a "glass cannon." You win if the enemy spends very little time hitting you while you land your vicious spells from range!

You must focus first on talents that improve your ability to control the target's movement! You put 2/2 in frost ward (utterly useless for you), 2/3 in the one that helps with resists (sounds very useful, but you don't want this one yet, if ever), and only 1/5 in improved frostbolt.

Always put your first talents 5/5 in improved frostbolt. Frostbolt snares your target. The faster you can cast fr-b, the faster you can get the target slowed. Also, faster cast time improves your dps. Note, you will always want to keep fb rank one on your toolbar. Why? W/ 5/5 imp fr-b, rank one can be cast in ONE SECOND - it's great for an emergency snare, when you need to get something slowed really fast.

Next, go 3/3 in Permafrost. Why? W/ this your chill (snare) effects last 3 seconds longer and slow them 10% more. Doesn't sound like much, but it is! In WOW 3 seconds is an eternity; 10% slower gives you more time to damage them while they slowly try to reach you. Makes a HUGE difference.

Now, go 2/2 in Improved Frost Nova. Why? Reduces the cooldown on FN by 4 seconds, making FN reusable much faster. FN is one of your best spells - it ROOTS the enemy while you get distance and nuke. The more you can FN and the faster you can FN, the better you will do.

You will want Ice SHards 5/5, but later on.

Okay, now, with these new talents (and I'm sorry, but you do need to respec - your current spec is ... well more on this in a moment), how do you use them?

Go out into a target-rich environment and try to start from a road, which is relatively safe - and look for something to kill. Cast your best Frostbolt at extreme range.

The second your "cast bar" turns green, hit your highest FIREBALL - yes fireball. But wait, I'm a frost mage! Why am I casting a fireball? Fireballs still do the most damage. You use frost to control the target and whatever is best to kill - and fire is often the best.

The idea is to be casting that fireball while the frostbolt is flying through the air to the target. The frostbolt should hit and should slow the target. You can probably get off TWO fireballs as target closes - target may hit you a bit while you cast second fireball.

But w/ one frostbolt and two fireballs on it, it will be very hurt. Now what?

If you have no room to move (i.e. you're in a tunnel - there are many monsters around) then use Mana Shield. Fire Blast. Frost Nova and back up just out of melee range. Fireball again. Or wand if it's about to die (to save mana). OR Frost Nova first, then Fire blast while backing up a little - then finish it off.

But if you have room to move, strafe away. Yes strafe (q and e keys). You strafe at 100% mvment speed, you back up at about 50%. As long as the target's in your 180 degree forward-facing arc, you can hit it w/ spells, even if you can't see it. So strafe right while fireblasting (get used to fireblasting on the run). And then frost nova. Strafe away a little. Frostbolt and fireball if it has lots of hit points. Fireball or wand if it's about to die.

You will need to practice this a lot to get it down. I'd go practice on low greens or even greys! So there is no stress. By hitting AE keys together or QD you can even circle things! This is "kiting" - staying on the move. In pvp you can kill things mostly by casting insta-cast spells on the run, only stopping to fireball or frostbolt when the target is FN'd or very far away and chilled (or occupied w/ someone else on your team).

But the basic drill w/ pve is: Frostbolt, Fireball, Fireball, Fireblast, Fnova, move off, Fireball or wand.

OR: Frostbolt, Fireball, Fireball, Frost Nova, Fireblast while moving off - and fireball or wand.

Or: Frosbolt, Fireball, Fireblast, Fnova, move off, Frbolt and fireball - whatever.

Or: Frostbolt, Arcane Missiles, Fnova, move off fireblasting, fireball....

You have to adjust this to the fight.

Okay, you will lose the 2/2 in the one that helps against resists. What if target resists first frostbolt?? Well, first fireball should land. If you feel worried, Frost Nova and move away. Start over, but in shortened form. Now Frostbolt, Fireball, Fireblast - mana shield if needed - fireball --- or if you can just kite them in a safe area, keeping them slowed with frostbolt rank one - and fireblasting on the run whenever that's available (later on you can mix cone of cold w/ this) - fNova and finish them off if needed.

If worse comes to worse, sheep and run. Or nova and run. Get away, let them reset, come back and start over.

Get Cold Snap 1/1 next. Resets your cooldowns. Lets you FN in an emergency - killer talent. Next I'd get 5/5 ice shards and not imp bliz yet. Then I'd get 3/3 in imp bliz. Hard to AoE w/ bliz until lvl 28 or 32, anyway.

Next I'd get 5/5 in shatter. W/ shatter and ice shards, you can seriously hurt frozen targets! Don't get Frostbite at all if you want to AoE. It messes it up (some will stay in place, others will pursue you - your cluster of targets is broken up - and you can't neatly kill them all, trust me).

So, do you really need to redo your build? Frost Ward is utterly useless to you pve. 2/3 in Elemental Precision is useful. Will even things out by reducing resists - and will be handy when doing hte AoE thing, yes. But that 2/2 in frost ward will hurt you badly. It costs 1g to reset - I would.

Maybe go 5/5 imp fr-b, 3/3 Permafr, 2/2 imp fr nova, then 1/1 Cold Snap, 2/3 or 3/3 Elemental Precision, 3/3 Imp Bliz, then go 5/5 Ice shards and 5/5 Shatter.

But mostly work on MOVING in combat and CONTROLLING your target. Be heads-up. Am I in a safe place to kite or move around? If not, I can still Fnova, but I can only move a teeny bit away - or I get an add. I need to rely on Mana Shield to live maybe. If I can move, then I need to keep target chilled/snared and nova'd (rooted) while I nuke it from range.

You need to move around effectively to AoE kill w/ bliz.

Here's a trick: w/ permafrost you can kill green-con ELITES, solo! Maybe yellows (it's hard). You only use Frostbolt and fireblast. It takes a while, have a mana potion just in case. And you need room to move. Basically pull the elite to a safe zone to kite. Keep it chilled/snared - use frost bolt rank 1 maybe. And fireblast whenever fireblast is usable while strafing from it. If you have the mana you can nova, strafe off, and fireball twice. Learn when to do this and when not. (try not to let the elites hit you, especially if they can stun! Learn the range of Fnova - to cast it right before they can hit you, but not too early, missing them).

Even if you don't respec, or even if you respec fire - you should not be dying. The basic: open w/ frostbolt, then fireball (or arcane missiles) while mob closes, frost nova, fireblast while moving away, fireball again - this kills most yellows quite nicely. Never just stand there and let them pummel you while you try to cast on them if you can at all help it.

And if you die because of adds, you must add a new mindset to your thinking: escape. Many players think they can't run. I just don't get this. Dying in the Barrens is a PAIN, you often res about 40 miles away. Don't die. If you get an add you can't handle, Nova, or sheep, or frostbolt rank 1 and RUN. Always know where your safe route is! Usually it's bakc to the road. Roads are often clear of monsters. If u are oom rely on your frost armor to chill and slow them as they hit you - always have that buff up (the one that chills whatever hits you - I forget its exact name).

If you get one add in a fight - sheep it if you can. Kill the one you are on, then back off, FIRST AID IF YOU ARE HURT (you can't eat and drink, you're still in combat - but you can FA) - and kill the sheep. If you can't sheep, strongly consider running. Practice fighting low level undeads (or things you can't sheep) two at a time - when you can bliz you can switch over to AoE tactics when you get unexpected adds.

But you should not be dying as a mage. Mages die all the time, but this is because they are played wrong. Learn "right play," and you'll conquer! GL!

P.S. You are right that Frost = good survivability. But you have to pick the talents that give you this and understand how to use them! These are, again: controlling the ability of your target to reach you and speeding up the casting time (and lowering the cooldowns) of your handy, frost spells. To recap: use frost to control - use fire or whatever is best to damage.



Edited, Feb 4th 2007 3:30pm by IponemaGirl
#37 Feb 04 2007 at 10:02 PM Rating: Decent
Thank you so much for the advice. I'm printing it off and putting it next to my computer so I can get to it in a hurry. :-)
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#38 Feb 04 2007 at 10:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Here's a trick: w/ permafrost you can kill green-con ELITES, solo! Maybe yellows (it's hard).


I'm gonna take this a step further. If it can be snared + rooted and doesn't do a ranged attack, a frosty can solo it...naked.

Yes. Naked.

Stone Guardians in Un'goro?
Cake.

Demons in Winterspring(the Fel Guard type ones)?
Easy.

Giant ugly worm whose name escapes me in EPL?
No prob.


You may be forced to use rank 1 frostbolt, but mage armor and arcane intellect were all I had other than a Simple Black Dress and some grey boots(naked for all purposes). Sure, it takes forever, but you should never get hit and your mana will regen fast enough that it doesn't matter with rank 1.
#39 Feb 05 2007 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Hehe Poldaran, you are right. I just didn't want to ... make it sound too "extreme." But you're right. When you switch to frost you have to get used to it, but once you do, you are very powerful in many circumstances!

I wouldn't start out doing naked-elite-challenges, but do work up to it!

Start out on low greens and learn how to move, how to strafe, how to circle strafe - which spells to cast when - get a sense for how long things last. It won't take long. You will need to know how to move well to AoE w/ Bliz.

Pigtails, glad I helped - hope you have a great time playing your mage! All the best!

(edit - OH - once you get Ice Shards and Shatter, you may want to Frost Nova earlier on in your battle sequence. Then strafe away and Frostbolt (or use whichever spell you want - Fireblast and Fireball will crit better, too ---- but frostbolt has the +crit w/ shards (but in pvp, if you think the player will click out of your frost nova, FN -> immediately fireblast -- hope they click a split second too late and waste their ability -- cold snap, FN again, strafe off and frostbolt)). Play with it and see what works best.)

Edited, Feb 5th 2007 1:41pm by IponemaGirl
#40 Feb 07 2007 at 5:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Echou,

A question...I've been using your Fire PvE grinding progression, and it has been great so far. I'm lvl 38 Human Mage, but I have a question...what is the theory behind not having PoM in this build? I didn't see any specific comments on this part. Is there something that offsets the ability to turn some spells into instant cast? I'd appreciate any insights.

I've been lurking since November when I first started WoW, and this is my first and only character, which I want to level all the way to 60 and beyond. First post :) You all have been very helpful in these forums.

MAGES RULE :)
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#41 Feb 07 2007 at 7:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Can you still AOE grind with this pure frost pvp build?



*NEW* Pure Frost PvP (Levels 10 to 60): 0/0/51

5/5 Improved Frostbolt
2/2 Improved Frost Nova
3/5 Ice Shards
3/3 Piercing Ice
+2 Ice Shards
5/5 Shatter
1/1 Ice Block
1/1 Cold Snap
3/3 Frostbite
3/3 Improved Cone of Cold
2/2 Ice Floes
1/1 Ice Barrier
2/2 Arctic Reach
2/3 Frost Channeling
5/5 Empowered Frostbolt
1/1 Water Elemental
+1 Frost Channeling
3/3 Elemental Precision
3/3 Permafrost
3/5 Winter's Chill

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I will cleanse this land of your kind!

Uhh, were on a PvE realm. Good luck trying...


#42 Feb 07 2007 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Bulana wrote:
Can you still AOE grind with this pure frost pvp build?


Bulana wrote:
3/3 Frostbite


Wouldn't suggest it.
#43 Feb 08 2007 at 12:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Beside dropping forstbite i would drop elemental precision, youre not going to AOE stuff higher then youre level, if anything 1-2 under youre level is preferred, base hitchance is same level mobs is 96%.

Winter's chill it doesnt stack with Blizzard and Blizzard doesnt crit. Blizzard will be 70% of youre damage output as AOEer

Poldaren try that elite bat in EPL, Duskwing i believe, he is a good frostmage trainer, if you get in melee range, he silences you, youre dead :)

Edited, Feb 8th 2007 3:34am by Sjans
#44 Feb 08 2007 at 12:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Sjans wrote:
Beside dropping forstbite i would drop elemental precision, youre not going to AOE stuff higher then youre level, if anything 1-2 under youre level is preferred, base hitchance is same level mobs is 96%.


Don't forget that elemental precision lowers spell costs. Sure it's not much, but every little bit helps.
#45 Feb 09 2007 at 6:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I am now a level 28 fire mage. Here is my current Build

5/5 Improved Fireball
5/5 Ignite
1/1 Pyroblast
2/2 Flame Throwing
2/2 Incinerate
3/3 Improved Scorch
1/2 Burning Soul

I love pvp! I want to kill quickly with high damage. Can someone layout the talent build for max dps. I am assuming that Fire is the tree to do this, but I am not 100% for sure. I would like to know what to invest my points in to next.

Thanks in Advance


#46 Feb 09 2007 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent
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jaziar wrote:
I love pvp! I want to kill quickly with high damage. Can someone layout the talent build for max dps. I am assuming that Fire is the tree to do this, but I am not 100% for sure. I would like to know what to invest my points in to next.


Actually, for PvP, you want max burst damage(either sustainable burst via shatter, for example) or extreme burst with a long cooldown(AP PoM Pyro...which you can't get at your level).

I'm a little tired and starting to see double right now, but if you haven't been answered when I wake up I'll see what I can do.

And if I manage to forget(again...tired) PM me to remind me tonight.
#47 Feb 09 2007 at 6:54 PM Rating: Decent
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You refer to AoE grinding using Blizzard. I'm a level 32 frost mage with specs going for AoE grinding. My question is, you did such a wonderful job explaining how to use frost effectively to control the target, and fire to do the damage. How do you go about using blizzard to effectively AoE?
#48 Feb 10 2007 at 10:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Bulana wrote:
Can you still AOE grind with this pure frost pvp build?

Poldaran wrote:
3/3 Frostbite

Wouldn't suggest it.


What if I just took out frostbite? Because I plan on getting the game this week and want to do pvp and aoe grind so I need a build I can use to aoe grind and just turn around and pvp with the same build.


Thanks



Edited, Feb 10th 2007 12:05pm by Bulana
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#49 Feb 10 2007 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Bulana wrote:
Quote:
Bulana wrote:
Can you still AOE grind with this pure frost pvp build?

Poldaran wrote:
3/3 Frostbite

Wouldn't suggest it.


What if I just took out frostbite? Because I plan on getting the game this week and want to do pvp and aoe grind so I need a build I can use to aoe grind and just turn around and pvp with the same build.


Thanks



Edited, Feb 10th 2007 12:05pm by Bulana


Would go much better that way.
#50 Feb 11 2007 at 7:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Great guide thanks.
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#51 Feb 15 2007 at 8:31 PM Rating: Decent
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But the basic drill w/ pve is: Frostbolt, Fireball, Fireball, Fireblast, Fnova, move off, Fireball or wand.

OR: Frostbolt, Fireball, Fireball, Frost Nova, Fireblast while moving off - and fireball or wand.

Or: Frosbolt, Fireball, Fireblast, Fnova, move off, Frbolt and fireball - whatever.

Or: Frostbolt, Arcane Missiles, Fnova, move off fireblasting, fireball....

You have to adjust this to the fight.


IponemaGirl, great post.

One note: obviously, you're giving strategy for an AOE-grinding/no Frostbite build, but for those who go with the Frost trifecta of shatter-frostbite-ice shards, I'd recommend spamming frostbolt, with the occasional instant cast (fireblast, arcane blast, and cone of cold) as mobs close in on you. In other words:
frostbolt, frostbolt, frostbolt, fireblast, frost nova, move away, frostbolt, (rinse and repeat).

The reason: I often get one or two frostbite procs before the mob reaches me, and consequently I don't even need frostnova - it freezes mobs before they can reach me, allowing me to continue to hit them with non-instant cast spells like frostbolt. Even better, when frostbite procs, I can get big shatter crits off of them while frozen, making it even less likely they'll reach me before dying.

Another alternative: Ice lance (obviously, only available at 66). Triple damage against frozen targest plus 50% chance to crit, and very low mana cost.

Also, I'd agree with you that frost AOE grinding takes a lot of practice and is not recommended for beginners.

But that said, frost is great.
In the interest of full disclosure, my build:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Rf0V0oZZVAGckfxRiot
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