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Thorns on yourself?Follow

#1 Nov 03 2005 at 10:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Can you do thorns on yourself aswell of only at other players..?

(Druid lvl 5)
#2 Nov 03 2005 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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YES!!!!!!!!!!

Keep ALL of your buffs(Thorns, MoTW, ect..) active on yourself at ALL times! Not useing your buffs is about as bad as not wearing armor, because it just doesn't look cool!

#3 Nov 03 2005 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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When soloiong and in small groups, but when playing healer in a instance, take thords off, it is quite possible to pull a huge pile of mobs with a crit heal, thors makes it harder for folks to peal those mobs off you, so.... dont put it on clothies, or rogues, When in a instance, outside.... always have it on.
#4 Nov 03 2005 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
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Nekar wrote:
Keep ALL of your buffs(Thorns, MoTW, ect..) active on yourself at ALL times!
Aside from the instance situation CapG brought up, there is one minor other exception to this rule that nonetheless bears mentioning. Anyone who wears the Green Whelp armor for the sleep effect (And I know that I still do for PvP purposes), take off thorns! The reflected damage will cancel the sleep immidiately. I can only assume this is because the sleep effect is applied immediately upon getting hit, and the thorns damage is applied just after.
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#5 Nov 03 2005 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Good point, so good i rated you up,sleep well knowing that green whlep amror isusfull again on the Panther boss of ZG, My guild takes 4 druids on a run where we go after only him.
#6 Nov 04 2005 at 6:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Speaking of thorns, I think I actually killed a guild mate with them in a duel earlier today. Him and I were dueling in front of Orgrimmar and we both got down very low on health, and he blasted me with one final Sinister Strike, while he only had a small sliver of life left, I got the yellow text that he defeated me in the duel, but immediately after that he collapsed, dead at my feet! I was kind of surprised and I thought maybe the alliance were attacking us, but then I realized he wasn't pvp flagged or anything, and no mobs were around to agro him (not that they could have hit him,) so the only logical reason why he died was that my thorns took him out. I never knew that could happen, but I just thought I would add that to the thread =)
#7 Nov 04 2005 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Thorns has a wierd slight deley thing, that is the very property that allows it to break sleep, because how could a mob hit you to take thorns dammage if they are asleep? well guess it is just a slight deley between attack and applying damamge, it is possible that in your case (sicne rogues attack so fast) one shot defeted him in a dule but the next one killed him before he was a non targetable object.
#8 Nov 04 2005 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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All good points, that I did not mention. As he is level 5, Green Whelp Armor and instance parties is out of the question for several levels.
#9 Nov 04 2005 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent
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I thought that you could not kill another player in a duel... especially not after they've defeated you. I've tried to kill players that pissed me off many times but the system won't allow me to attack them at a certain point after I've won.
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#10 Nov 04 2005 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I thought that you could not kill another player in a duel... especially not after they've defeated you. I've tried to kill players that pissed me off many times but the system won't allow me to attack them at a certain point after I've won.


Well thats why i posted

Quote:
Thorns has a wierd slight deley thing, that is the very property that allows it to break sleep, because how could a mob hit you to take thorns dammage if they are asleep? well guess it is just a slight deley between attack and applying damamge, it is possible that in your case (sicne rogues attack so fast) one shot defeted him in a dule but the next one killed him before he was a non targetable object.


it all comes down to the delay in the Thorns damamge, thronrs is applyed after all other dammage but before the Rogue became "freindly".
#11 Nov 06 2005 at 2:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Also if your friend was an orc, and he used his Blood Fury racial, that may have killed him. It happened to me on an Orc alt after a duel.
#12 Nov 14 2005 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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And do not apply thorns to rogues it will break sap.
#13 Jan 04 2006 at 9:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Just a thought though. When you place thorns on yourself and it does damage, does it generate rage?
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#14 Jan 05 2006 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
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No, it doesn't generate rage, nor does it build hate. Thorns is a great buff for solo work, but in groups or raids I usually only keep it up on the warriors and not even them if they are pulling.
#15 Jan 05 2006 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Hummmmmmmm,
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nor does it build hate


Are we sure of this? In early levels we would use throns to keep mobs stuck to the tank, and IIRC it worked!, now a days my buddies all have skullflame shilds with Thorium spikes, so thonrs seems silly, but even after just asking a buddie, we seem to remember thonrs generating enuff hate to let rejuive go off and not pull mobs off the tank.

Were we worng? Has this changed since 1.3(the last time i used it for more than a lil extra dammage). We were told that it causes hate on the person it was applyed to, not the caster.

so some feedback on the hate generation would be appreicated.
#16 Jan 06 2006 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Of course, the more buffs you have, the more things a dispeller has to dispell.

If you only have MotW on, and a Warlock attacks you with Felhunter, you can kiss MotW goodbye. If you have Thorns and/or any other buffs, there is a chance they will be dispelled first.


Think of lesser buffs as meat shields for greater ones.
#17 Jan 06 2006 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
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My understanding is that it doesn't generate hate because it doesn't really count as a directed attack. The indicator for this is that you can catch aggro from a mob and your thorns can do damage, but the mob will not be tagged.

If you notice though, the first player a mob sees and the first player to do damage to a mob both get a significant amount of hate. I believe the first round of damage done by thorns counts as the first damage done to a mob, but I don't believe it makes a difference after that. It does make a difference if a tank runs into a group of mobs and everyone manages to count to five before cranking up the DPS.

I'll tack a disclaimer to all this by noting that I've done no real testing myself, and this is only the impression I developed mixed with a little bit of hearsay.
#18 Jan 06 2006 at 11:15 AM Rating: Decent
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I am inclide to agree with you, mosttly as i have never seen a warrior aoe taunt and reestablish (lost) aggro with thorns, sure they attack for the durration of the taunt but go back if no new dammage is done, but i think your point on original dammage is right on as it seems to hold mobs on the tank .... at least at the begening.
#19 Jan 06 2006 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
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highRfrequenC wrote:
My understanding is that it doesn't generate hate because it doesn't really count as a directed attack. The indicator for this is that you can catch aggro from a mob and your thorns can do damage, but the mob will not be tagged.

This particular piece is completely unsound. I powerlevel newbs with my druid by 'pulling' a mob with faerie fire. It generates enough aggro I can keep the mob on me the entire time without ever actually "interacting" with it and cutting experience. So I'm going to conclude that just because an action doesn't tag a mob doesn't mean it doesn't generate aggro.

However, I have no idea if thorns causes aggro or not. I've always just assumed it does and put it on the tank, if anyone, in groups. Honestly, I'm too lazy to keep thorns up all the time in instances anyway!

Edited, Fri Jan 6 12:02:15 2006 by Kouren
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#20 Jan 07 2006 at 9:43 PM Rating: Good
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In EQ a druid's thorns generated aggro but did not tag the mob as being attacked by the caster or the person who has thorns on themselves. I know it sounds wierd but i know this becuase i powerlvled with a 70 druid by 1: running around and getting aggro by getting too close to a mob 2: letting the mob hit the druid for a while 3: attacking the mob with my lowbie, by doing this the mob would die by the druid's thorns but would count as my lowbie doing the killing becuase he did the only damage to it.
Of course this has nothing to do with WoW except that i tried to do the same thing and it didnt work becuase Thorns in WoW count as damage by whoever has thorns on them. What im trying to say is that if a warrior has thorns on him it will create aggro for him becuase it counts as him attacking (however small) and not for the druid who cast it on him.
I have done testing.
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#21 Jan 11 2006 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Like previouss poster pointed out, it's imperative you keep your self-buffs active at all times, except when you expect to be sleeping a mob (Such as Mother Smolderweb) that will be hitting you. Thorns is somehow delayed and the damage can land after your Sleep, dispelling the effect.
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#22 Jan 12 2006 at 10:24 PM Rating: Decent
Put thorns on whoever SHOULD be taking aggro. Believe it or not I think this buff actually helps me hold aggro in bear form if I'm tanking, because it's regular damage the mob is taking from you, and therefore regular threat. (even though damage doesn't always = threat, it's still worthwhile)

I wouldn't go around trying to cast it on an entire raid group or something ridiculous like that, your mana just won't hold for one thing. But also you don't want to generate threat for anything other than tanks.

In solo, naturally keep ALL your buffs on you at ALL times. As small as the damage is it chops about 2-3 seconds off the length of a solo PvE fight. More if you're fighting a rogue-like (damage-little-but-often) mob.

And to the later topic.. I use Green Whelp Armor, and Thorns never breaks it for me. What breaks it is Moonfire, Rake, Rip etc.. There's a mod somewhere called SheepDefender that's wonderful for Green Whelp Armor users, stops you breaking it with swings.. but really, I've never had a problem with it at all. Not once. And I've used Green Whelp Armor for quite a while now.
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