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WoW Lost 600k Subscribers, down to 11.4MFollow

#52 May 13 2011 at 7:59 AM Rating: Decent
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I think that number would be closer to triple if you counted all the players who, in the last 3 months, were still subscribed but averaged less than 3 hours per week.
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#53 May 13 2011 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
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/ignore Jackass-Sistersofelune would ignore people from another server.
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#54 May 13 2011 at 2:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Tynuv wrote:
I like the idea of having a rating system for LFG players, with a "would like to group with again", "no preference" and "would not like to group with again" (especially as you can't ignore people from other servers who don't say anything) and the system then tries to group you with people you've rated favourably. Of course in my head this extends to all the whiney, rude, incompetent players being left to group with each other until they get so annoyed they quit the game :)
This doesn't address my problem with the system though. I've gotten bad groups in LFG, but I've also gotten great groups. The problem is that the whole process of finding the good people, and building a community is completely gutted. I rarely will find anyone from my server in my groups, you can't queue with people from other servers, and even when you do, there is no incentive to add people to your friends list because in the end no one wants to do heroics the same way. No one ever messages people having grouped with them in the past for a run, no one messages people asking if they have any alts that they want to do something on because they know they're a good player.

Edited, May 13th 2011 3:39pm by Xsarus
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#55 May 13 2011 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
Tynuv wrote:
I like the idea of having a rating system for LFG players, with a "would like to group with again", "no preference" and "would not like to group with again" (especially as you can't ignore people from other servers who don't say anything) and the system then tries to group you with people you've rated favourably. Of course in my head this extends to all the whiney, rude, incompetent players being left to group with each other until they get so annoyed they quit the game :)
This doesn't address my problem with the system though. I've gotten bad groups in LFG, but I've also gotten great groups. The problem is that the whole process of finding the good people, and building a community is completely gutted. I rarely will find anyone from my server in my groups, you can't queue with people from other servers, and even when you do, there is no incentive to add people to your friends list because in the end no one wants to do heroics the same way. No one ever messages people having grouped with them in the past for a run, no one messages people asking if they have any alts that they want to do something on because they know they're a good player.

Edited, May 13th 2011 3:39pm by Xsarus


I get what you're saying...I never did much outside of guild though. I think it would be a little better if the LFG was by server.

Now you don't even have to socialize to find a guild, The game has become somewhat impersonal over the years, but I get some social interaction in my guild.
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#56 May 14 2011 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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I quit back in March, after playing since release. Nothing to hate about Cataclysm, I wasn't even burnt out.


I've always been a healer, the changes to healing this expansion didn't turn me on. Anyone that had access to beta and played high end knew Cataclysm was going live with zero class balance. Which is why the first 8-10 weeks of Cata saw almost daily huge class changes across the board. Once things were settled by 4.1 and it was clear they were moving to fine tuning I wasn't impressed with how healing in a PvE Hard Mode environment was going to play out and decided that it was time to put my toon into his Full 8/8 Tier 6 that I earned while Sunwell was live and log out.

Edited, May 14th 2011 11:59am by bodhisattva
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#57 May 14 2011 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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bodhisattva wrote:
I quit back in March, after playing since release. Nothing to hate about Cataclysm, I wasn't even burnt out.


I've always been a healer, the changes to healing this expansion didn't turn me on. Anyone that had access to beta and played high end knew Cataclysm was going live with zero class balance. Which is why the first 8-10 weeks of Cata saw almost daily huge class changes across the board. Once things were settled by 4.1 and it was clear they were moving to fine tuning I wasn't impressed with how healing in a PvE Hard Mode environment was going to play out and decided that it was time to put my toon into his Full 8/8 Tier 6 that I earned while Sunwell was live and log out.

Edited, May 14th 2011 11:59am by bodhisattva



It would greatly help if Blizzard instead of redoing every class every expansion simply built off of previous expansions. Every total redo they completely create new problems they seem to have no idea how to solve.

Its one thing to gradually change the game. Its a completely different thing to change how everyone plays every few patches or expansions.
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#58 May 14 2011 at 7:15 PM Rating: Default
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ekaterinodar wrote:

It would greatly help if Blizzard instead of redoing every class every expansion simply built off of previous expansions. Every total redo they completely create new problems they seem to have no idea how to solve.

Its one thing to gradually change the game. Its a completely different thing to change how everyone plays every few patches or expansions.


I honestly think this is the heart of the problem. After a certain point people get tired of all the changes. Traditionally this has been a feature of the elderly. Props to Blizz for making this an equal opportunity affliction.
#59 May 14 2011 at 9:02 PM Rating: Good
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JDLKY wrote:
I honestly think this is the heart of the problem. After a certain point people get tired of all the changes. Traditionally this has been a feature of the elderly. Props to Blizz for making this an equal opportunity affliction.


People in general are creatures of habit and familiarity. They do not like massive--especially unneeded or wanted--changes. I was warning about this a couple of years ago when Wrath hit and reshaped everything and then many of the subsequent patches.

It is one thing to evolve classes. Its another to just steamroll them every few months to a year. After playing a game for four or five years I'd expect to be able to have long mastered a class. If I'm going to be forced to relearn after all of that time invested, then, as a player, after so many times I start thinking about why not start over in a new game?
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#60 May 14 2011 at 10:26 PM Rating: Good
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Is this overreaction? I only play tanks and dps but the cycle I see is:
-I become awesome at what I do.
-Something changes, I adjust.
-Something else changes, I adjust.
-A class-centered patch comes along and a lot of things change, but I manage to adjust.
-I look back at the state of the class when I started playing (which was a feral druid, so... yeah) and it's radically different from the current one I play, but I've adjusted and maintained/improved my awesomeness over the entire time.

So yeah, I've had to change my mentality sometimes "Oh, ferocious bite is good now? ...now it's not again...now good...now I remove the button entirely" and so on, but is it worth raging over? Should we still play Vanilla because they shouldn't change anything?
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#61 May 14 2011 at 11:08 PM Rating: Good
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I dig that Selebrin. The changes keep the game from getting stale, to me.
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#62 May 15 2011 at 4:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
Tynuv wrote:
I like the idea of having a rating system for LFG players, with a "would like to group with again", "no preference" and "would not like to group with again" (especially as you can't ignore people from other servers who don't say anything) and the system then tries to group you with people you've rated favourably. Of course in my head this extends to all the whiney, rude, incompetent players being left to group with each other until they get so annoyed they quit the game :)
This doesn't address my problem with the system though. I've gotten bad groups in LFG, but I've also gotten great groups. The problem is that the whole process of finding the good people, and building a community is completely gutted. I rarely will find anyone from my server in my groups, you can't queue with people from other servers, and even when you do, there is no incentive to add people to your friends list because in the end no one wants to do heroics the same way. No one ever messages people having grouped with them in the past for a run, no one messages people asking if they have any alts that they want to do something on because they know they're a good player.


On the other hand...

I've been playing Rift for the past few months, and they just added a LFG tool. Know what you'd find before? Endless calls for dungeons in global chat, and very few out-of-guild runs being had. It's not fun. It's frustrating, especially at non-peak times. I would love to play more of their instances, but it's just too difficult to find a group and it sucks to be that guy who needs to spam for hours to get one. If I wanted that, I'd go back to FFXI! luckily the feature was added in 1.2, so it should help the problem some.

Edited, May 15th 2011 6:40am by LockeColeMA
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#63 May 15 2011 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
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If this is the first time the player base hasn't grown (or at least the first time it's gone down), then one has to assume that the player base went up, or remained steady, during "WOTLK easy mode," which would indicate that the transition from WOTLK to Cataclysm is what killed the drive for the people who left.

Well, yes. What I'm trying to say that I think is the cause, is that WOTLK made a lot of stuff easier; not in a Bodhi sense of 'everything but Yogg+0 and LK25HM is **** easy', but in a sense of 'normal raids are something everyone can do with ease'. This hauled in new people while all normal players got used to the relative ease of the content. Cataclysm made content a bit harder again. I don't want to say raiding is terribly hard right now, but people could ding 85 and actually wipe in heroics, and raids are even a step above that. I think that's what has put most people off who were used to having an easy time in heroics and easy access into raids.

Basically, the way I see it, Blizzard kind of dug their own grave when they decided to make Cata a tad harder after the complaints on WOTLK's easymode. It's kind of ironic, because I for one liked the change.
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#64 May 15 2011 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
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I think the problem is that the majority of the player base didn't complain about the easy mode of Wrath.

Sure, ICC with the buff was lulsies, but it was fun. Wiping five times in a 5-man because of coin-flip mechanics isn't fun.
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#65 May 15 2011 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
I think the problem is that the majority of the player base didn't complain about the easy mode of Wrath.

Sure, ICC with the buff was lulsies, but it was fun. Wiping five times in a 5-man because of coin-flip mechanics isn't fun.


What coin-flip mechanics do you have in mind? Only thing I can think of that's currently much to sensitive (though still a skillcheck) is Venoxis for melee due to odd hitboxes on his breath and the ground poison.

VVVVV Fire is hot. I saw it on da interboards.

Edited, May 15th 2011 12:37pm by selebrin
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#66 May 15 2011 at 12:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Basically any boss using a 'avoid this or die' ability. Yes, it's easy to avoid, in theory, but **** happens, and spending 20 minutes in the queue, 30 minutes in a dungeon and then having to requeue after the group falls apart because someone missed the S-button and died to spikes/fire/poison/charge is not fun. It's frustrating.

It's a cheap way of making a dungeon remain challenging for a longer time, since getting better gear means **** all if you don't move out of fire. Unfortunately, it doesn't make the dungeon more fun. That's my opinion, at least. I, for one, don't clap my hands in joy whenever a boss turns my face inside out because I missed a warning somewhere in the sea of numbers floating across my screen.
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#67 May 15 2011 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Wrath was fun, 10 zones, Dalaran, tourney, questing, hard mode, pvp, easy purple, cooking , fishing, "For the Horde" war bear raid, grinding for tiger mounts, Wintergrasp, special pets (hunter), Lost time proto drake, eggs , 20 mins heroics and LK himself.

Cata is fail, playing Russian roulette with classes and wait for 4.2 to make us grind RBG'S for conquests...they are killing us! Bring sexy back please Mr. Blizzard, i want to have FUN!

Look at Alla WOW forum, can't find 1 thread about how fun Cata is. Nothing to talk about except beer and boobs.


Edited, May 15th 2011 6:57pm by RAWDEAL
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#68 May 15 2011 at 6:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't remember many posts about how fun Lich was, either.
There were quite a few "Lich sucks, bring back BC" posts.
There were quite a few "Lich is too easy, we're full T7 already and it's been a week" threads.
"Uld hard modes are too hard and easy modes are too easy."
"T9 is a joke."
"T10 is a joke and looks terrible."
"Way to rehash content Blizzard."
"There's nothing to do at endgame except grind 4 versions of the same raid and do dailies."

Are we noticing a trend?
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#69 May 15 2011 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
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jaysgsl wrote:
I don't remember many posts about how fun Lich was, either.
Are we noticing a trend?
I'll trade Ulduar for the entire Cata expansion in a heart beat! At least we were talking about the game in WOTLK, Cata is so boring that we can't even make a thread about it (just derailed ones).
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#70 May 15 2011 at 6:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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I actually do remember posts about how good WotLK was. At least, certain aspects of it.

I'm really trying as hard as I can to take the Nostalgia Filter out of the equation here.

Wrath had its problems. There is no denying that. However, it also had many things that made it great. I've noticed that when both BC and WotLK came out, they both changed the game in unprecedented ways. When Cata came out... it was pretty much more of the same. A couple new races, a few new zones, a revamped old world, but it still felt like Wrath. And there is the problem.

If it feels like more of the same, then it probably is more of the same. And that isn't going to keep people interested very long. Wrath had its issues, and so did BC. But at least they kept things fresh.
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#71 May 15 2011 at 8:38 PM Rating: Good
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IDrownFish wrote:
I actually do remember posts about how good WotLK was. At least, certain aspects of it.

I'm really trying as hard as I can to take the Nostalgia Filter out of the equation here.

Wrath had its problems. There is no denying that. However, it also had many things that made it great. I've noticed that when both BC and WotLK came out, they both changed the game in unprecedented ways. When Cata came out... it was pretty much more of the same. A couple new races, a few new zones, a revamped old world, but it still felt like Wrath. And there is the problem.

If it feels like more of the same, then it probably is more of the same. And that isn't going to keep people interested very long. Wrath had its issues, and so did BC. But at least they kept things fresh.


You say nothing changed and that's a problem. JDLKY says that all the changes are hurting the game.

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#72 May 15 2011 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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How about they're both the problem?

Blizzard is trying to change things, but despite all the changes they're making, it's still the same core game that we've seen for years.

Don't get me wrong, it's changed a lot over the years. However, there's only so far you can go without it being a completely new game.
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#73 May 15 2011 at 9:35 PM Rating: Default
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selebrin wrote:


You say nothing changed and that's a problem. JDLKY says that all the changes are hurting the game.

Two men enter, one man leaves!


I am pretty sure Fish and I are talking about 2 different things. My emphasis is on the mechanical and Fish it seems to me is more oriented on the aesthetics.
#74 May 15 2011 at 10:51 PM Rating: Good
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Y'all are no fun. :(
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#75 May 16 2011 at 12:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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RAWDEAL wrote:
jaysgsl wrote:
I don't remember many posts about how fun Lich was, either.
Are we noticing a trend?
I'll trade Ulduar for the entire Cata expansion in a heart beat! At least we were talking about the game in WOTLK, Cata is so boring that we can't even make a thread about it (just derailed ones).


In my opinion Ulduar was the best raid Blizz has made that I was a part of as current content.

Most of the grumbling about Cata is people remembering being overgeared in late Wrath with the only raid being nerfed heavily and forgetting how hard stuff was at first. Even now the non-Zandalar heroics are zerg fests, heck even most pulls in ZA/ZG are now that people understand how they work.

The derailing of threads is largely do to a lot of long time posters (who aren't as active in the game) derailing threads after the questions have been answered. That and its fun to do.
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#76 May 16 2011 at 1:45 AM Rating: Good
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IDrownFish wrote:
However, there's only so far you can go without it being a completely new game.
Go Titan Go!


Shame it'll be another year or two before that's released.
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