How come you don't do it?Follow

I don't know. I am aware that my current guild isn't really hardcore - we're stuck at 11/12 ICC25HM now.

The thing is, I applied to that guild with a proper application, and I really like most of the people who are actually active beyond showing up for raids. I am also pretty sure that if I decided not to raid with them anymore, I'd still be able to stay as casual.

The thing is, due to our lack in Holy paladins (or rather the fact that the Holy paladin who's been carrying the rest of us all the way to 11/12HM is taking a break at the moment), we are currently not even doing anything that counts as progression fights. We will mostly do farm content until he comes back or we've found a replacement, which means 7½ hours of raiding a week - that is very casual, right?
We're definitely social, as well. We do LANs where we level alts, and play other games and do stuff.

I am a rubbish player. I don't know how I even got into that guild, and didn't get kicked yet. And people in Dalaran and such randomly talk to me because I'm in such a hardcore guild. Yeah, right. In the eyes of a lot of people, we are a serious raiding guild.

I do know that there are lots of "raiding guilds" that are stuck on 10/12 normal and raid 4+ nights a week. It's just funny to me because I know how little skill 9/12HM, or even more, takes. On the other hand, I've been in guilds like that, and I think it is mostly down to leadership.

LOL!

Edited, Aug 27th 2010 10:02pm by KassandrahKnight

A combination of it not being my thing and not having the time.

I like raiding for a few weeks. Then I get bored of doing the same thing over and over, multiple nights a week. I'd rather be out with friends! Usually after I take a break for a couple of months. Like right now :-P

Our guild is mostly social. We raid a bit if enough people are on, but the goal is mainly to have fun.

I'd rather spend time at the AH, or working on a profession, or any number of other goals I set for myself. Raiding occasionally or even weekly is fun. However, several days a week of mandatory raiding doesn't appeal to me.

Then you wouldn't have interest in being in a leading progression guild. That's all. Nothing "good" or "bad" about knowing that you're not interested in that style of game play. Not every aspect of the game is to everyone's liking. No biggie.

The point of progression guild attendance, commitment, optimization, etc isn't about elitism. It's that you need these aspects in order to get world/realm first-second-third kills on the most difficult encounters in the game.

I wouldn't show up to a professional baseball team in my crappy physical condition and complain that they're not giving me a shot even though I smoke, drink and have spent the better part of my life at punk shows instead of the diamond or a gym. Point is, from the Major League on down through AAA and serious amateur leagues you NEED to have physical conditioning, serious training and a commitment to show up and play hard every time in order for the team to succeed. While WoW isn't anywhere near as demanding, the same general philosophy can apply to those folks pushing the leading edge of the content.

"Making the cut" for a serious progression team means that you are serious about not wasting the time of 24 or more other people by causing wipes, not showing up, showing up unprepared, etc. "The Cut" is not a judgement about how you smell or if you're a nice person. "The Cut" means that you can benefit the team and help push for that world/realm first.


And for the record: The hardest boss in the game is still The Almighty Ledge Boss. SWP's most hated beast!

I voted "I don't have the time" but to be honest, I don't know that I'd go back to progression raiding if I did at this point. Miss it sometimes but....

Cheers!

I imagine this post accompanied by the sound of creaking bone, as from the spines of those unfortunate enough to have to carry Bodhi.

I don't mind saying that I don't think I'm good enough.

I can do just fine in heroics, but I feel that for raiding my rotation should be almost perfect and I don't think I'm there yet. Add in the fact that my PC isn't the best and running Oman, DBM, Healbot and the other add-ons in 25 mnan content would cause it to have a nervous breakdown.

I'm happy running heroics and pvping. I don't feel I'm missing anything at the moment.

I voted #5, due to there being more than one reason.

1). I've done some raids, and actually enjoyed it the experience somewhat, but when it comes down to relying on other people whom I barely know (even guildies), I... I dunno, I don't like having to rely on everyone *else* to do their job right. If you get 2+ people who ***** up, everyone in the group ends up paying the price. I don't much like that; I hate eating dirt when I did *everything* right, because you got someone in the group keeps dropping the ball. Yes yes vote kick blah blah, but trying to find a replacement sucks.

2). Elitism and gear requirements. The *good* raiding guilds obviously want the best-geared players and I honestly didn't feel like grinding the same handful of heroic dungeons 500+ times to get enough Frost Badges to buy everything off the badge vendor ASAP in the "gear up race" so that there aren't a million players in front of me in the recruitment lines.

3). Tank or Heal ONRY. With the fact that there are 10 classes and all 10 classes can be DPS in raids nowadays, but only 1 spec in 4 different classes can Tank, and only 1 spec in 3 different classes, and 1 more class who has 2 healing specs can be healers, you get this over-abundance of DPS classes wanting raid slots, and a shortage of Heals and Tanks. Raid tanking is so-so... a bit stressful and demanding... but raid healing? NO freaking thanks. I've tried _heroic_ 5-man healing and I didn't like it because you don't have a split second to look away from the computer screen; Raid healing would be worse. I just don't enjoy that style of play.

4). Time. I work in retail; my schedule varies week-to-week. I simply cannot be off every Friday, Saturday, or Sunday Night when most guilds want to raid. That and I don't like the whole Night thing myself -- everyone wants to start raiding at 10PM EST. I don't like staying up to 1-2AM and having to go to work the next morning. I used to do that in FFXI, it sucks. I chose not to do it much in WoW.

5). Luck. I joined a "casual raiding guild" for aforementioned reasons, and I had limited success with having fun. Sure we wiped on bosses and such, but meh. We did win sometimes too, and had some good times. But recently (after that patch that gave us raid weeklies) I started seeing people with Ulduar, ToC and Icecrown-Freaking-Citadel achievements doing absolutely stupid crap on old raid bosses, completely dropping the ball (this one guy has both 10 and 25man Furnace Master achievement and somehow didn't know how the fight was supposed to go!?) and causing wipes. The last time I did a raid, was Ignuus the Furnace master I believe his name was. First time I ever attempted it, and we were in a 10man raid group. 8 of the 10 people had the achievement for him and half of the rest of Uld10. We couldn't get him down because nobody seemed to know how to handle the adds. Then it was suggested we do XT for fun. Heh. They couldn't get him down either and people started leaving. I said '***** it' to raiding that night.

So there you have my top 5 reasons for not being eager to raid.

Edited, Aug 28th 2010 10:59am by Lyrailis

Yeah I never said anything about progression content at all.




Nah, no elitism at all. I don't know where everybody keeps getting that from.

I do love though how people can presume how well somebody would do at something they haven't tried based on absolutely nothing.

Not wanting to turn a game into a job does not make me bad, just not hardcore.


Yeah, again, I'm not even talking about major or minor leagues here pushing boundaries and aiming for firsts of anything.

There seem to be different definitions of "raiding" going on here.

Teacake hit some of the really big points for me. I'm just not interested in finding the time to do it, or being yelled at by people 1/3 my age for not doing it right. I can't even find the time for dungeons because I don't want to burden anyone else with frequent afk's or just flat out being bad. My time is my family's, first and foremost. Yes, I've had time to level up tons of characters-but when I need to go fix dinner(and yes, I cook full big, sit down at the table dinners), or help my kid with something, I will log out on the spot. Or when "Big Bang Theory" comes on. :D

And yes, Bodhi must be right, I am certain that I suck at this game and could never cut it in a raid. I can't even cut it in dungeons where the mobs are gray to me. I just suck and want to keep my suckiness away from all the other players so they won't /point and /laugh at my absolute suckiness.

I also have a severe hearing loss and not being able to use vent pretty much precludes me from ever even trying a raid.

And this isn't comparable to trying out for the minor leagues. I can go to the park and hit a tennis ball against a wall if I want to play tennis-I don't need to be as good as Chris Everett, I don't even need to be as good as the local high school tennis player, just to have fun. And I am having tons of fun playing this game still! Playing it the way I like to play it. :)

Woah Brocephus,


End of the day, as highlighted in this thread, we as a community have a number of priorities and goals when it comes to raiding. The fact that current end game raiding can make it accessible for all of us with our different levels of game play is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with pugging, or being in an entry level raid group and learning how to play, or just playing with friends and wiping to bosses. As long as you are enjoying your time spent, it's all golden.


But the simple fact is that players see their success at a casual or entry level and think that would translate into an easy transition or stunning numbers in a top end guild and they couldn't be more wrong. A couple people on the forums have experienced this and talked about it in detail.


Not just that but gear, and min maxing, minimizing damage, reaction time on boss abilities, etc. When you are doing Marrowgar HM with a 30% buff and it isn't even a hardmode anymore then these things don't matter. You just steamroll it. Go to real content, undergeared and push it at a progression level and those things change and the "lewl I do fine gemming SP as a resto sham" argument falls apart because at that point the minmxing separates the men from the boys.

/rant

Oh I know Bodhi, I'm just clownin on your trollin one liner which was funny and made me lol as well. I think its fine to play the game any way anyone wants. I think its impressive that Blizz found a way to cater to such of range of players this expansion pack. It's part of what makes them the king of MMO's atm.

I am bored with ICC though. Even after a 6 month break it took me about 1 month to be bored with it again.

Bring on the Caty!