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#1 Jun 30 2010 at 5:39 PM Rating: Default
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I've been on the receiving end of some rather infuriating discrimination from Blizzard for the last three weeks, and I've finally had enough. Let's get one thing out of the way: I'm a pretty tolerant guy. However, this is something that needs to be brought to light. In a nutshell, I've been getting repeatedly suspended for living in Taiwan. That doesn't seem like it should be that horrible of an offense to me.

This whole mess started when my guild started having gold DKP runs in ICC 25. I bought some stuff, I made some gold, and a few hours after the raid ended, I found myself suspended. Of course, no one else in the raid got suspended, and some people paid out quite a bit more than I did. I was targeted for my location. It's not like that was the first time Blizzard harassed me about living in Taiwan, but it was the first time I got suspended for it. And it's happened every week since.

After the second week, I informed account management that I would no longer tolerate receiving form emails they copied and pasted to me and wanted a real response, so they got a GM to contact me in game. He/she claimed to have personally done something on their end to make sure it wouldn't happen again. Blatant lie. As a matter of fact, since this GM action, it has gotten much, much worse. In this past week, I have been suspended three times. Once for the last gold DKP run, and twice for mailing gold to other characters... on the same account. Yup. Apparently I'm selling gold to my alt now. I don't mean another WoW account on the same battle net ID either. I mean the same account. Before, I'd get suspended several hours after the raid. The last time I got suspended from the gold DKP run in the middle of the raid.

This is clearly harassment. No one else in my guild or in these runs is being treated in this manner. I tried posting on the official WoW forums because I wasn't getting a real response from account management. The blues helpfully responded by editing out my subject and post and locking the thread.

"But Fiber," you might be thinking, "This is clearly just an automated script! You're not being discriminated against!"

You know what isn't automated? Being lied to outright by GMs. Let me explain something here. This harassment tells me what Blizzard thinks of my family. By doing this, they're saying that my mother, grandmother, aunts, uncles, cousins, fiance, her entire family, and many of my friends and coworkers are not to be trusted. In what way, shape, or form is this acceptable? I'm so sorry for wanting to keep in touch with my friends from the US and Canada when I had to move back to Taiwan. Clearly I'm a major threat.

I've expressed my concerns over this to Blizzard multiple times, and they respond by telling me account security is my responsibility. Yeah, thanks. My account wasn't compromised, and I don't appreciate being told I don't know how to use a computer.

So what am I hoping to gain by posting this here? I'm hoping that by making this public I can make them care enough to stop harassing me, and probably others as well. It's not illegal to be Asian; I'd like to not be treated like a petty criminal.
#2 Jun 30 2010 at 6:17 PM Rating: Decent
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1. Gold DKP runs are retarded.

2. We have no reason to assume you've been suspended because you live in Taiwan. You say they've "harassed" you for living in Taiwan, but this was the first suspension? How exactly did they "harass" you?

3. If you've been suspended every week since then, you've been doing some extremely suspect stuff that you are conveniently leaving out.

Quote:
In this past week, I have been suspended three times. Once for the last gold DKP run, and twice for mailing gold to other characters... on the same account.

...Before, I'd get suspended several hours after the raid. The last time I got suspended from the gold DKP run in the middle of the raid.


You have no clue why you were suspended--you are guessing. And the DKP run where you got suspended in the middle was DEFINITELY not the cause.

4. Here's a question. Where is this massive amount of gold for all these runs coming from? You couldn't be buying it, could you?

Quote:
This is clearly harassment. No one else in my guild or in these runs is being treated in this manner. I tried posting on the official WoW forums because I wasn't getting a real response from account management. The blues helpfully responded by editing out my subject and post and locking the thread.


So you posted a clearly-biased, unfounded accusatory post in their forums (and possibly in the wrong one) and you wonder why they got rid of your post? Well, I made one about rainbow unicorns on the WoW boards and the admins moved it--CLEAR DISCRIMINATION.

Quote:
You know what isn't automated? Being lied to outright by GMs. Let me explain something here. This harassment tells me what Blizzard thinks of my family. By doing this, they're saying that my mother, grandmother, aunts, uncles, cousins, fiance, her entire family, and many of my friends and coworkers are not to be trusted. In what way, shape, or form is this acceptable? I'm so sorry for wanting to keep in touch with my friends from the US and Canada when I had to move back to Taiwan. Clearly I'm a major threat.


They'd have ABSOLUTELY no reason to suspect you for moving. They probably cannot tell where you log in from, and I seriously doubt they would consider the billing address change to be suspect (most gold farming companies are American--the accounts just operate in Asia, which Blizz probably can't tell from the login).

And, even if they do have your account flagged through some system, it's frankly for a reason. If you actually did nothing against the ToA, you are probably in the VAST minority of asian-based players on american servers. That isn't discriminatory, it's just a fact of the system (and also not Blizzard's fault at all).

Plus, GMs aren't perfect. They aren't LYING to you, they probably just don't know exactly how to fix the situation. And my guess is that you've actually been flagged for a specific reason. All they can do is remove the flag. NO GM will EVER set up an account to never be flagged again. So stop doing whatever is suspect (which definitely isn't moving gold around) and you won't have a problem.

And going on an ethical tirade because Blizzard doesn't give a crap about your family is funny. Because, guess what? I'm white and live in New Jersey, and they don't give a crap about mine either! I have friends in CA that I never see, but that isn't going to stop Blizz from closing my account if something suspect comes up.

Stop playing the victim and deal with it.
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#3 Jun 30 2010 at 6:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory wrote:
1. Gold DKP runs are retarded.


I disagree. I find them a great way to gear up alts, while providing an incentive for mains to help out and make some extra cash.

Just sayin'.
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#4 Jun 30 2010 at 6:34 PM Rating: Default
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When the only thing I do with a significant amount of gold (unless you count repairs and vendoring greys as significant) is mail gold to an alt, and I get suspended rather quickly for it, then yes, that's the cause. By the way, just because someone isn't completely poor doesn't mean they buy gold. People have legitimately hit the gold cap. Meanwhile I have a massive 40k total.
#5 Jun 30 2010 at 6:38 PM Rating: Default
You are not telling us everything. You did something wrong that you refuse to disclose, and are looking for a shoulder to cry on. Well, it's not going to happen. Let me ask one thing:
Quote:

It's not like that was the first time Blizzard harassed me about living in Taiwan, but it was the first time I got suspended for it. And it's happened every week since.


So why do you keep giving them your business?
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#6 Jun 30 2010 at 6:40 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
In a nutshell, I've been getting repeatedly suspended for living in Taiwan.


Oh, really? Or did Blizzard list the reason for your account suspensions as something different? If you look down toward the end of your post, you mentioned that…
Quote:
I've expressed my concerns over this to Blizzard multiple times, and they respond by telling me account security is my responsibility. Yeah, thanks. My account wasn't compromised, and I don't appreciate being told I don't know how to use a computer.
…and, to be honest, if your account is actually being compromised, that has nothing to do with your living in Taiwan.
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#7 Jun 30 2010 at 6:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

So why do you keep giving them your business?


I play because several of my friends play, and it's nice to be able to do something with them even though I live on the other side of the planet. Obviously if it gets much worse (I don't really see how that's possible at this point, but I'm sure Blizzard will come up with something) I won't really have any choice but to stop playing.

Quote:
…and, to be honest, if your account is actually being compromised, that has nothing to do with your living in Taiwan.


As I said, my account is NOT being compromised. That's just the copied and pasted response they give me.

Edited, Jun 30th 2010 8:45pm by Fibericon
#8 Jun 30 2010 at 7:26 PM Rating: Good
You still haven't given us any solid proof to support your claim that Blizzard is biased against Taiwanese customers. There is no specific rule against accessing a North American account in a country where the North American release is not available. And for the record, Taiwan has its own localized release, so that only gives me less reason to believe that Blizzard would want to harm any business there, at least intentionally.

Also, I'm not why you thought posting on a non-Blizzard website would help you resolve your issue.
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#9 Jun 30 2010 at 7:33 PM Rating: Good
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If Blizzard doesn't like you doing gold dkp runs, perhaps you should stop. If anything, you should be mad at the other players in your location. They are the ones who by their constant assault on the player community have made your actions suspicious.
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#10 Jun 30 2010 at 10:26 PM Rating: Good
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Blizzard is not harassing you. They're denying you service, a right they very well have. Just like you have the right to no longer use their services.

You're also making a generalization. If Blizzard is targeting you because of your location your story wouldn't be the only one. Come back with more proof that they're discriminating against legitimate players in your country or else drop the victim act.
#11 Jul 01 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Have you ever filed a ticket to the GMs? Have you ever filed a complaint about someone? Do you have ANY clue how long it takes for them to do, well, anything?
Whatever you're being consistently banned for, it's something that happened a while back, NOT something that happened the night, or even week, you got banned.
Stop buying gold from the 8 year old down the street, it's bad.
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#12 Jul 01 2010 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
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You know what's really cool? Telling a coherent story, instead of an incoherent rant with tidbits strewn throughout it.

By removing 90% or the irrelevant conspiracy parts, then rearranging what little else you said, I have come up with this:
1) You used to live in North America, somewhere.
2) You started playing WoW on a NA account, with a NA address.
3) You moved (back) to Taiwan.
4) Blizz has suspended your account several times since moving back.
4a) They apparently think you keep getting hacked, because your NA account (that was created in NA) keeps being accessed from Taiwan.
5) You became convinced that the only reason they are suspending your account is that the implant the CIA put in your brain told the Blizz servers you're not white. (Or something like that. Could be the mind control lasers. Was hard to tell. You didn't mention tin foil, nor exclude it.)
5a) The GMs are personally in on this conspiracy. Even the Asian ones. (Maybe they're Korean?)

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#13 Jul 01 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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You forgot to mention the wiretaps Blizzard put on all of his family.
#14 Jul 01 2010 at 3:50 PM Rating: Decent
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arnlell wrote:
You know what's really cool? Telling a coherent story, instead of an incoherent rant with tidbits strewn throughout it.

By removing 90% or the irrelevant conspiracy parts, then rearranging what little else you said, I have come up with this:
1) You used to live in North America, somewhere.
2) You started playing WoW on a NA account, with a NA address.
3) You moved (back) to Taiwan.
4) Blizz has suspended your account several times since moving back.

4a) They apparently think you keep getting hacked, because your NA account (that was created in NA) keeps being accessed from Taiwan.

5) You became convinced that the only reason they are suspending your account is that the implant the CIA put in your brain told the Blizz servers you're not white. (Or something like that. Could be the mind control lasers. Was hard to tell. You didn't mention tin foil, nor exclude it.)
5a) The GMs are personally in on this conspiracy. Even the Asian ones. (Maybe they're Korean?)



Pretty much my take on it, too.
#15 Jul 01 2010 at 5:04 PM Rating: Default
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idiggory wrote:
Quote:
4. Here's a question. Where is this massive amount of gold for all these runs coming from? You couldn't be buying it, could you?


Just because someone has a lot of gold doesn't instantly mean they bought it. I have over 300,000 gold on one of my accounts. I earned it by playing the AH, crafting, transmuting, camping spawns etc.

Quote:
So you posted a clearly-biased, unfounded accusatory post in their forums (and possibly in the wrong one)


You have no reason at all to type that last bit except to be an ***.

Quote:
If you actually did nothing against the ToA, you are probably in the VAST minority of asian-based players on american servers.


Another idiotic statement. Where's your proof of this? Can I see the stats you're pulling this from?


You all would be up-in-arms if this was happening to you. You might approach it a bit differently, but to treat this guy like the villain with absolutely no proof of wrong-doing is wrong in itself.

Edited, Jul 1st 2010 7:07pm by FFATMA
#16FFATMA, Posted: Jul 01 2010 at 6:27 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yeah yeah, rate me down all you want, I stand by what I said.
#17 Jul 01 2010 at 7:09 PM Rating: Default
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QQ more.
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#18 Jul 01 2010 at 7:53 PM Rating: Default
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Amazingly intelligent rebuttal.

What is wrong with you people? Most of the time, most of you seem decent but today you're all acting like jerks. Is it only established posters that get any sympathy when things go wrong with their accounts? I'd like to see you guys have some troubles that aren't being resolved and see how much QQ you do. This isn't the O-boards.

Edited, Jul 1st 2010 9:56pm by FFATMA
#19 Jul 01 2010 at 7:54 PM Rating: Default
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^ This.

Also, if you want sympathy, look in the dictionary between **** and syphilis, because you sure as hell ain't gonna find it here.
#20 Jul 01 2010 at 10:22 PM Rating: Good
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FFATMA wrote:
What is wrong with you people?


Perhaps FF doesn't see the same regular stream of "my account just got hacked" posts that WOW does? There is usually at least one on the front page here at any given time. A common theme of such posts is trying to do damage control so that the hijacked toon doesn't just lose gear, but also pillage the guild bank and ***** over everyone. Has OP's account been hacked? Take him at his word and say it hasn't, but being cautious about an account that might have been hacked is hardly proof of racism on the part of Blizzard. Locking down suspicious log ins may have saved some of the people here a bit of trouble when their account got hacked.

A log in from Taiwan is just that -- a number that does not contain any information about race. Playing race as the "I win" button in an account dispute is manipulative BS. Posting that accusation on multiple forums is more of the same BS. According to the Armory, Fibericon (Blackheart, Azjol-Nerub) doesn't seem to have missed much play time. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-feed.xml?r=Azjol-Nerub&cn=Fibericon

Note -- See also, Terms of Use, items 7 & 8 for Blizzard's legal obligations regarding account ownership and suspension of accounts. As far as the issue of race goes, Blizzard could ban him just for having big feet; people with big feet would be free to boycott them, but that's the way the click wrap reads.

FFATMA wrote:
You have no reason at all to type that last bit except to be an ***.


Perhaps Idiggory simply knows the O-boards. Was Fibericon's post on the NA Forum in the right place?

Quote:
Edit: This is not the venue to dispute account actions, Fiber - emailing Account Administration at wowaccountadmin@blizzard.com is.


To judge the content of the original post: http://www.threadmeters.com/rOwhWD/Repeated_vague_answers/

FFATMA wrote:
Another idiotic statement. Where's your proof of this? Can I see the stats you're pulling this from?


Again, perhaps FF doesn't have the same situation, but Idiggory was quite specific about referring to players 1) based in Asia [no reference to ethnicity, just location] and 2) choosing to play on North American servers. Statistics are nice; the lack of statistics does not completely invalidate personal observation.

Taiwan, the PRC and Korea have localized versions of WOW. Playing outside of the localized version tends to be laggy, is comparatively difficult to pay for and is further complicated by different time zones. Unlike the PRC, the Taiwanese and Korean localizations are more or less current with NA/EU versions (e.g. have WotLK and can expect to get Cataclysm when it is released). Although it may be a stereotype, there is a reason that "gold farmer" is strongly associated with players in the category Idiggory described.

There are other regular posters who are, to the best of my knowledge, Asian and who are involved in international travel. They do not report similar problems. I play on the Chinese servers and have never had a similar problem. A person who has never contributed to the forum here shows up to air his O-board drama about race and it doesn't play well. Far from being a reason to ask "what's wrong" it is a variant on a theme so common that it has a place in the FAQ. You know, the thing that tells new posters "Please read before posting."

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7. "Blizz sucks!"

a. Ranting at Blizz here isn't going to solve your problem. If you want to rant at Blizz someplace where they actually look, post in the O-forums. http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/

b. If you are posting here to get sympathy or much needed attention, you won't get much. Most posters here don't want to hear rants, so chances are that you will get downrated to oblivion. So calm down and post something that might actually help people instead of ranting.

8. "I've been banned from the official forums and I want to bring my drama here"
Just go away.






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#21 Jul 01 2010 at 10:35 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Just because someone has a lot of gold doesn't instantly mean they bought it. I have over 300,000 gold on one of my accounts. I earned it by playing the AH, crafting, transmuting, camping spawns etc.


No, but it would explain why he keeps getting suspended, because he clearly isn't telling us the whole story.

Quote:
You have no reason at all to type that last bit except to be an ***.


You're right--saying that the post, which was inflamatory, might have been posted in the wrong forum was SUCH a douchebag thing to do. That's intelligent. He has a support issue--what are the chances that he posted his rant about them harassing him in the general forum? Probably pretty high.

Quote:
Another idiotic statement. Where's your proof of this? Can I see the stats you're pulling this from?


Oh, you're right! I'm SURE all the players logging into US servers in Asia, as opposed to the Asian servers, aren't doing anything wrong.

He will be in the minority here--that's an obvious part of having regional servers. VERY few people logging from Asia will have a US account for legitimate reasons. You actually need to buy the American client to have one, which would require importing if you lived elsewhere. WHY bother doing so when you have localized servers where you can play with people who speak the same language with a reduced lag time if you aren't up to no good? People like the OP are the only ones who would (that want to keep in touch with foreign friends or similar), and they are a huge minority of those American accounts accessed in Asia.

Quote:
You all would be up-in-arms if this was happening to you. You might approach it a bit differently, but to treat this guy like the villain with absolutely no proof of wrong-doing is wrong in itself


Well, he's accusing Blizzard of being racist against Asians, which is laughable. He's making a claim based on no evidence. His story has holes in it. He's come here for NO other reason but to rant.

Sorry, but I'm not interested in adding another raving lunatic to these boards. If your first post is going to be a rant, let alone an unfounded one, don't bother.

And frankly, even if Blizzard fixed it so you COULDN'T access a EU or US account from Asia, it still wouldn't be racist. It has NOTHING to do with race. It happens to be due to the fact that your region contains the bulk force of workers in an industry that violates their terms of service.

Actually, the OP is even more ridiculous, because the ONLY reason Blizz hasn't region locked their servers is due to people LIKE the OP. They don't want to cut off those friendships and locations. And that's admirable--if I was in charge I'd just lock them (mostly due to the 400 whispers I've gotten this week).

Is it frustrating? Sure. But the OP is a steaming pile of unfounded crap.
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#22 Jul 01 2010 at 10:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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FFATMA wrote:
Is it only established posters that get any sympathy when things go wrong with their accounts? I'd like to see you guys have some troubles that aren't being resolved and see how much QQ you do.


I don't care who the OP is, he's doing it wrong.

#23 Jul 01 2010 at 10:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ok, well said. A couple of things I still think weren't needed but for the most part I admit I posted a bit hastily. I blame the heat, it's made me grumpy and unreasonable! /apology
#24 Jul 02 2010 at 11:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory wrote:

He will be in the minority here--that's an obvious part of having regional servers. VERY few people logging from Asia will have a US account for legitimate reasons. You actually need to buy the American client to have one, which would require importing if you lived elsewhere. WHY bother doing so when you have localized servers where you can play with people who speak the same language with a reduced lag time if you aren't up to no good? People like the OP are the only ones who would (that want to keep in touch with foreign friends or similar), and they are a huge minority of those American accounts accessed in Asia.

The plural of anecdote is not data. However, I have a friend who joined WoW at the same time I did when we were looking for a new online coop game. He has always used the US client, but his business and personal life have had him living in three different US states and two different Asian countries, and he's also logged in from a number of places he hasn't lived. He is Asian, which is obvious from his surname. He's not goldcapped, but he never stinted on upgrading either of his toons with crafted/BoE gear and still has close to 100k despite no longer really trying.

In short, he has all the same markers as the OP. And yet he has never had a single problem, either from Blizzard or hackers. There's something in this thread's story we're not being told.
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