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The Overwhelming Power of StupidityFollow

#27 Apr 01 2010 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
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I didn't get past reading the words potsoriginal and stupidity.
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#28 Apr 01 2010 at 10:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Seriously?

We all know it's even worse for warriors and druids =P. His point is true though - because all of those abilities are directed towards a single target it just turns into a huge *********** if you have to Silence one of the mobs while running to another one to get in melee range to interrupt him while he's actually casting and use DG at the right moment as well (open with it and you're still gonna have Caster #1 stand miles away from #2 and #3 since it doesn't interrupt). And you need to do all of that before Strangulate runs out as well.

I've been there on my DK, and while AOE threat on casters sucks on warriors and druids you can at least simply go "oh well, it's not like I *CAN* actually do anything to get them all on me anyway" while a DK has to live with the realization that he can actually pick them all up but has to do some impressive *********** targeting, ability use and have impeccable timing aside from the usual tanking rules (keep your front to the melee mob and spam your main ability on him) to actually pull it off.
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#29 Apr 01 2010 at 11:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Name me a trashgroup where more than 3 casters are far away from each other.
Actually, make that four.

Run to one, throw down D&D, brainfreeze and drag it to the second while strangulating a third and then DG the fourth.





Now as a druid:
Feral charge one and pray, or LoS but with most dps that's a lost cause as they'll start dps too early for any LoS, if the possibility is even there.
As a DK you can pick them all up with a bit of targetswitching and a plan, as a druid you have to live with the realization that there's @#%^ all you can do about people eating spells because you're running between casters trying to hold aggro on all of them.


Edit: I'll say it. If you're a DK and whining about caster mobs you're trash that needs to learn how to play.
You can rate me down for being an elitist now.

Edited, Apr 1st 2010 7:25pm by Aethien
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#30 Apr 01 2010 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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^ rateup for truth

DKs are actually #2 in line for multiple-caster-tanking, second only to warriors.
#32 Apr 01 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Name me a trashgroup where more than 3 casters are far away from each other.
Actually, make that four.

Run to one, throw down D&D, brainfreeze and drag it to the second while strangulating a third and then DG the fourth.

Now as a druid:
Feral charge one and pray, or LoS but with most dps that's a lost cause as they'll start dps too early for any LoS, if the possibility is even there.
As a DK you can pick them all up with a bit of targetswitching and a plan, as a druid you have to live with the realization that there's @#%^ all you can do about people eating spells because you're running between casters trying to hold aggro on all of them.

Edit: I'll say it. If you're a DK and whining about caster mobs you're trash that needs to learn how to play.
You can rate me down for being an elitist now.

Without trying to be an *******... I giggled when I read that post. You just confirmed exactly what I said, except that you pulled out a different conclusion. If you don't get what I mean by that, reread the posts; the parallel is really there. The only thing I have to add is that nobody's whining about caster mobs as a DK - we're just saying that it can be helpful if someone 'takes down that lone caster' as life isn't always as easy-peasy as a Death Knight as it seems.
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#33 Apr 01 2010 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm saying that it's easy compared to other tanks.
And really, what I stated isn't very complicated and there shouldn't ever be a lone caster if you're tanking on a DK because of all the tools you have.

And the post wasn't really aimed at you, more at whoever it was that said that DK's don't have many tools when they have more than enough to pull just about any number of casters.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
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#34 Apr 01 2010 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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How can you two actually stand to be in the same guild? Smiley: laugh

I know it's me. I just want you to say it.
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#35 Apr 01 2010 at 1:54 PM Rating: Good
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I can kick him whenever if I want to.
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Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#36 Apr 02 2010 at 8:57 AM Rating: Good
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I had a group giving me grief over wearing the cloth exp shoulders on my hunter in a dungeon at level 78.

I just posted the recount report and replied, "skill>gear". Still, the idiocy ticks me off.
#37 Apr 02 2010 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
I can kick him whenever if I want to.


I don't think you can. I think you're a coward. Smiley: um Smiley: sly

Also, I agree that Death Knights have it easy when tanking casters. Warriors, unless they can use Spell Reflection, really lack some way to prevent taking magical damage. They have various ways to charge stuff, but that only interrupts the casters, it doesn't gather them. Paladins have Avenger's Shield which is on a pretty heavy cooldown. They lack a spell reflect, but can absorb 40% or 50% damage every couple of minutes, I forgot the exact number. Death Knights can absorb incoming magical damage as well as increase damage mitigation from physical blows. Druids... well, Druids are just out of luck. They get Barkskin every minute which decreases damage taken by 20% or something like that. Zero silence effects (except for their stun) and no interrupts except for a single charge ability. Having mostly tanked in WotLK, I agree with Aeth that Druids got the shaft this expansion.

And I'd like to add that Paladins managed to make Ghostcrawler their *****. Not only do they have superior AOE threat, but half the mobs in this expansion are undead, giving them such additional advantages, it's just crazy.

Bleargh!

Edited, Apr 2nd 2010 5:20pm by Mazra
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#38 Apr 02 2010 at 10:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
Druids... well, Druids are just out of luck.


Ugh, ya I FF a ranged at the start, then taunt + FF if I lose it. So what I can hold 2 then, if I tank the rest of the pack on the 2nd?

Worst part is that neither spell has a very big animation. I mean if a pally throws down consecration, you notice. It's a giant circle of yellow glory on the ground. We're all extra jumpy about ground animations anyway; don't want to be known as the one who stood in something they shouldn't! So it works well.

On the other hand, if I FF a ranged, it's really hard to tell. I mean a barely visible puff and that's it? Really?! Most people wont even notice. I'll have a well-intentioned DPS see a caster that looks like it's not picked up and go attempt to handle it alone, when in fact I got a decent hold on it. Frustrating...
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#39 Apr 02 2010 at 6:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, trying to hold aggro on a bunch of casters or ranged mobs on my druid tank inhales excrement through a hollow cylindrical prism.

If I am DPSing on my pally, and I notice that the tank has lost aggro on a caster or ranged mob, I WILL go over and solo it to help out (especially if it's atacking the healer)... and, yes, I can kill them just fine without heals if I have to.

And, yeah, pallys & druids ARE the two most useful PVE classes.

:-)

#40 Apr 03 2010 at 2:55 AM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:

Also, I agree that Death Knights have it easy when tanking casters. Warriors, unless they can use Spell Reflection, really lack some way to prevent taking magical damage. They have various ways to charge stuff, but that only interrupts the casters, it doesn't gather them.


Maybe they don't have DG but if you have problems to gather caster as a warrior L2Gag Order.

Supposedly we have 4 caster scenario as Aeth described. Heroic Throw one(silcenced and is running to you), charge middle one and Shield Bash it (silenced and is now following you). If you started with HT-ing far left proceed to far right and use Concussion Blow on the one you are passing by and proceed to last one on which you will stand with three of caster with you and one stunned. When stun wears of you can: 1. Shield bash it and get it to you. 2. Taunt it until some mobs die off. 3. Charge with warbringer. Spell Reflection on cd for extra threat.

It's not all that difficult. As usually with warriors it requires more movement but with all silences, stuns and charges something is usually off cd.

Edit: I linked first level of gag order, the second has 100% chance. Clarification for those unfamiliar with warrior specs.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2010 10:57am by himdraug
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#41 Apr 03 2010 at 6:16 AM Rating: Good
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Or in other words, feral tanking druids need a silence as all other classes have something besides LoS.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
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#42 Apr 03 2010 at 6:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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himdraug wrote:
Mazra wrote:

Also, I agree that Death Knights have it easy when tanking casters. Warriors, unless they can use Spell Reflection, really lack some way to prevent taking magical damage. They have various ways to charge stuff, but that only interrupts the casters, it doesn't gather them.


Maybe they don't have DG but if you have problems to gather caster as a warrior L2Gag Order.

Supposedly we have 4 caster scenario as Aeth described. Heroic Throw one(silcenced and is running to you), charge middle one and Shield Bash it (silenced and is now following you). If you started with HT-ing far left proceed to far right and use Concussion Blow on the one you are passing by and proceed to last one on which you will stand with three of caster with you and one stunned. When stun wears of you can: 1. Shield bash it and get it to you. 2. Taunt it until some mobs die off. 3. Charge with warbringer. Spell Reflection on cd for extra threat.

It's not all that difficult. As usually with warriors it requires more movement but with all silences, stuns and charges something is usually off cd.

Edit: I linked first level of gag order, the second has 100% chance. Clarification for those unfamiliar with warrior specs.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2010 10:57am by himdraug


That's not how it works. Suppose we have 4 casters. Heroic Throw one, charge another. OMG LEET DPS FOR THE ROXXORS! KEEL EEEET NAO!

That's how it works. If you can't round them up in 2 GCDs, you're **** out of luck.
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#43 Apr 03 2010 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
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Sad thing is, you're 100% right. And after some idiot goes ballistic and you try to scramble. Taunt here, silence there and stun somewhere else. I know the drill.

That's why if I see pull that needs precision I say I will need time and they should DPS when mobs are rounded up. If they fail at it and somebody dies I have clear conscience. If I get called idiot/noob/phailtank I don't really bloody care. "I told you I will need time to gather them and you went for it immediately anyway, whose fault is that". I even have it macroed. I only get pissed when I stop to type it and by the middle of "DPS when..." I get "ZOMG GOGOGO".



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A warrior is kinda like a blender. You can shatter it from a long way off with a gun, or you could even pull the plug so it can't move, but if you stick your face into it when it's moving you're going to lose.

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#44 Apr 03 2010 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
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My Warrior is only level 76 or so, so I lack all the necessary abilities, but I'm familiar with tanking in general and having played a Druid most of my time in this game, I'm familiar with tanking multiple casters without the abilities needed for it. Warriors do come close to the caster tankability of the Death Knights. They only lack some kind of magic absorb defensive thing and they'd be somewhat alike, except for the fact that my Death Knight can be a Blood Elf and thus has an AOE spell interrupt, but that's nitpicking.

Paladins and Druids lack the absorb as well, but Paladins have Sacred Shield which is like a mini-absorb that pretty much runs all the time. And they can silence up to three mobs at a time. And so on. We all know the survivability of Paladins is nuts. I mean, my own Paladin hit 80 and barely got crit immune before he was soloing bosses in Oculus - unintentionally, but still.

Druids these days can take a beating and hold aggro well on single targets and that's about it. They lack the survivability of Divine Protection or Shield Wall and have a mediocre defensive cooldown, like the Death Knight. Unlike the Death Knight, though, Druids lack a bunch of abilities for dealing with casters.

The way I see it, each class was meant to have a specific role (in direct contradiction to developers' claims):

Death Knight: Caster
Druid: Melee
Warrior: Caster & melee <- tough
Paladin: Caster & melee <- lolezmode

It's sad, really. Paladins get the single target TPS of Druids, the AOE TPS of Death Knights, the survivability of Warriors and then a ******** of other stuff just to completely throw the stuff off-balance.
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#45 Apr 03 2010 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Does any1 else have any stories of epic phail?


I was once in Violet Hold on my paladin before LFG cross realm existed. After the first boss a guy linked recount and I was only around 1k dps, maybe 800. So he removed me from the group and told me he wasn't going to carry poor dps. As the next wave started, I was autohearthing out from not being grouped. I was the healer.
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#46 Apr 03 2010 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
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That's not how it works. Suppose we have 4 casters. Heroic Throw one, charge another. OMG LEET DPS FOR THE ROXXORS! KEEL EEEET NAO!

That's how it works. If you can't round them up in 2 GCDs, you're sh*t out of luck.


Luckily casters like to stand and cast.

Heroic throw one, charge and shield bash another, together we go to #3 and let loose a shockwave, #4 will be intercepted, shield slammed and concussion blowed so he should stay with us a while. back to the 1st 3 who will get our full attention with thunderclap, cleave and everything now.

Managed to get killed in this short time? Congrats, you are a class A idiot. /target /golfclap /laugh
#47 Apr 03 2010 at 1:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
Druids these days can take a beating and hold aggro well on single targets and that's about it. They lack the survivability of Divine Protection or Shield Wall and have a mediocre defensive cooldown, like the Death Knight. Unlike the Death Knight, though, Druids lack a bunch of abilities for dealing with casters.


To deal with multiple caster bears must run around while Swipe spamming.

Its a great way to stay in shape.
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#48 Apr 03 2010 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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Horsemouth wrote:
Mazra wrote:
Druids these days can take a beating and hold aggro well on single targets and that's about it. They lack the survivability of Divine Protection or Shield Wall and have a mediocre defensive cooldown, like the Death Knight. Unlike the Death Knight, though, Druids lack a bunch of abilities for dealing with casters.


To deal with multiple caster bears must run around while Swipe spamming.

Its a great way to stay in shape.
My poor druid has so much blisters on her paws that she can barely walk Smiley: frown
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
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#49 Apr 03 2010 at 9:00 PM Rating: Good
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Horsemouth wrote:
To deal with multiple caster bears must run around while Swipe spamming.

Its a great way to stay in shape.


And yet my Druid's butt is still so big.

As for me, I have Swipe bound to 4 on my keyboard and my index finger is now registered as a deadly weapon.
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#50 Apr 03 2010 at 11:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Karthal wrote:
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Does any1 else have any stories of epic phail?


I was once in Violet Hold on my paladin before LFG cross realm existed. After the first boss a guy linked recount and I was only around 1k dps, maybe 800. So he removed me from the group and told me he wasn't going to carry poor dps. As the next wave started, I was autohearthing out from not being grouped. I was the healer.


Quit slacking you noob.

Warriors, you can nail 3 but 4 is a little tough. Heroic throw one, charge another, walk it to 3rd for shield bash, 4th you just conc blow/stun and hold aggro while spamming spell reflect. Nice thing with warrior is that when you have them all gathered up Shockwave keeps them all down. Having a healthy amount of stuns is handy although it is kind of annoying how they took my revenge stun from me.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2010 11:18pm by manicshock
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#51 Apr 09 2010 at 5:34 PM Rating: Good
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I've always enjoyed reading about the fail pug stories and was always sad I didn't have one to share.. until now.

was on my resto druid and que'd up as healer. got Nexxus. Group makeup was pally tank, dk, hunter, lock, me.

First mob, took 1 min to kill. Tank inspects everyone then leaves. Get second pally tank. Next mob takes longer to kill. She inspects everyone and starts ******** about DK wearing spell plate.

I'm thinking, who cares this is my first random, want my badges lets go...we can carry one bad player. She leaves and the lock leaves. Get 3rd tank and some random dps.

Get to next group of mobs...takes for ever. More inspections occur. Boots the DK for low dps. finally get another random dps. grrrrr

That dungeon took 45 min to clear. Nobody was doing over 400dps at level 80. How they ever got let into the heroic was beyond me. I can do 400dps in tree form for crying out loud. UGH....
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