Man you come off wrong in how you say things ekaterinodar.
imo, you were in the right, you were RL. The only thing i see wrong is you didn't say before the boss
that you were taking the loot.
The problem i see, You are acting like four guildies is a guild run, and only the four guildies put
the effort and made the run a success. (which you may have.)
If a pug comes in for one boss, they are entitled to loot. If you throw out the rules after invite
or before the boss, that is all in the good. Killing a boss, then saying "mine!" and "It is because
of me and my three friends" meh.
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#27ekaterinodar,
Posted: Sep 06 2009 at 2:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Actually, on our realm, EoE pugs RARELY happen. Ever. Even before Tier 8 content. EoE was hardly ever visited.
ekaterinodar wrote:
But I did not. I took a key, that requires a full 10 man effort, to ensure the greatest majority of my raid would have access to Eye of Eternity.
Again, this was my raid. Which I created. Which my guild made the brunt of the effort. We showed up for every boss. We were there on time. We directed. We provided the vent. We made sure that all loot from start to finish was fairly distributed, including BoEs that net well over 1k on our realm, guild members politely passed on pieces that would have been great upgrades to ensure as many people as possible walked away with something, we distributed shards at the end of each run. You can't tell me that the pug which I directed and carefully selected the players for, was by no means mine to decide how the loot was distributed.
I've been very much on the fence on this subject since it was first posted, I can see the argument from both sides.
Frankly though, I've come down on the side of you're just being selfish and a little pigheaded. No not because you don't have the right to decide how loot is distributed; hell as far as I'm concerned if you want to start a group where only people with two vowels in their name who do precisely 1337 dps or multiples thereof can roll on loot then fine, so long as you explain it clearly to each member who joins your group and they agree to run on those terms - not on the forum, not in an ingame mail in the form of a contract written in legalese which must be signed in triplicate and sent back but in person when they join.
I might have come down on the other side of the fence but honestly this thread has prove just how bad a leader you actually are. You had the right to make the rules up, you've consistently ignored the fact that people weren't aware of those. This isn't about what you personally find common sense, hell I agree with you for the most part, it's about realising that just because you see something as common sense doesn't mean that everyone else will.
Your mistake and the reason I called you a bad leader is because you've refused to acknowledge your mistake in this. It was fair to you, a good leader would have ensured it seemed fair to everyone else before they went anywhere, negating any need for argument or dispute later. If nothing else you've surely learned that when you're in this situation again you're going to do it differently? I hope so.
I don't care if it's a whole pug, part guild or full guild (but for one pug place) if you expect people to respect your decisions you base them on rules that are known to everyone or people will walk away with very bad thoughts about you, and rightly so.
RIP cococj...!
Ekaterinodar wrote:
I had fully intended on announcing our intentions with the key before the pull, but unsurprisingly the player who threw temper tantrums (note, I do differentiate between honest complaining and downright childish whining) was getting belligerent and causing problems BEFORE the pull. After dealing with them I was pretty flustered and forgot.
Anyway, since it seems these group of guildies want to make raiding a habit I'll probably create up a few macros announcing our run rules which I'll spam every time we get a new member to ensure nobody is confused about loot.
Anyway, since it seems these group of guildies want to make raiding a habit I'll probably create up a few macros announcing our run rules which I'll spam every time we get a new member to ensure nobody is confused about loot.
If that isn't admitting I made a mistake and that I plan on doing things differently in the future I'm not sure what that is.
Again, what I did is common practice on our server. I've never been in a naxx raid where the key looting rules were announced, nor did anyone in raid except a few overly argumentative people complain when there was no open roll. I've never seen an open roll on that key. Ever. I've never heard of an open roll on that key. Ever. It always has gone to the officers of the guild leading or to the leader of the raid if they did not have the key already.
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ekaterinodar wrote:
Again, what I did is common practice on our server. I've never been in a naxx raid where the key looting rules were announced, nor did anyone in raid except a few overly argumentative people complain when there was no open roll. I've never seen an open roll on that key. Ever. I've never heard of an open roll on that key. Ever. It always has gone to the officers of the guild leading or to the leader of the raid if they did not have the key already.
What's common is cool, I've been in this situation myself and I'm happy for those people who it will benefit the most to have it. In the same way, despite being a tank I'm happy for loot to get distributed to those people it'll benefit most.
What I'm saying is, it's wrong to assume that just because something is common everyone knows it. A good leader would have done just that, not assumed that everyone is on the same page but informed them anyway.
ekaterinodar wrote:
Ekaterinodar wrote:
I had fully intended on announcing our intentions with the key before the pull, but unsurprisingly the player who threw temper tantrums (note, I do differentiate between honest complaining and downright childish whining) was getting belligerent and causing problems BEFORE the pull. After dealing with them I was pretty flustered and forgot.
Anyway, since it seems these group of guildies want to make raiding a habit I'll probably create up a few macros announcing our run rules which I'll spam every time we get a new member to ensure nobody is confused about loot.
Anyway, since it seems these group of guildies want to make raiding a habit I'll probably create up a few macros announcing our run rules which I'll spam every time we get a new member to ensure nobody is confused about loot.
If that isn't admitting I made a mistake and that I plan on doing things differently in the future I'm not sure what that is.
Well it's admitting you'll do it differently, not that you made a mistake in this run. In fact you said "I had fully intended on announcing our intentions with the key before the pull" why before the pull? Why not when people had joined? Before the pull on the boss which the loot drops from is way too late to be setting, what to those who didn't previously know your intentions, new loot rules.
You also let your personal dislike of one member blind you to your own job, so you didn't announce the loot rule that you'd assumed was common knowledge to the whole group because one person was being "belligerent"? Well that seems mighty unfair. If you're running the raid then you can't let one difficult person stop you doing something you should have done, if you do then you're not a raid leader I want to run with, all the best I know keep their cool and will carry on regardless.
Anyway, good for you for getting the key, good luck with Malygos.
RIP cococj...!
I personally hate guild-favoring loot rules.
So go 6 man naxx.
Without those other 4 people, your run would not happen. Period.
So a little respect and treating the other people in the run the same way you treat your guildies is not that much to expect is it?
If other people are getting annoyed about the key, bite the bullet and roll for it. If a guildy wins it, have them give it to the person you want within the guild.
Statistically you still have a pretty good chance of keeping it within the guild.
ekaterinodar wrote:
Again, this was my raid. Which I created. Which my guild made the brunt of the effort. We showed up for every boss. We were there on time. We directed. We provided the vent. We made sure that all loot from start to finish was fairly distributed, including BoEs that net well over 1k on our realm, guild members politely passed on pieces that would have been great upgrades to ensure as many people as possible walked away with something, we distributed shards at the end of each run. You can't tell me that the pug which I directed and carefully selected the players for, was by no means mine to decide how the loot was distributed.
So go 6 man naxx.
Without those other 4 people, your run would not happen. Period.
So a little respect and treating the other people in the run the same way you treat your guildies is not that much to expect is it?
If other people are getting annoyed about the key, bite the bullet and roll for it. If a guildy wins it, have them give it to the person you want within the guild.
Statistically you still have a pretty good chance of keeping it within the guild.
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