To paraphrase Wil Smith: "Here's a little story all about how my world got flipped, turned upside down."
Except that in this case the story is about a guild member who, rather than naming and shaming, I shall refer to as 'FailMuppet the Shaman'.
The story takes place on a Ulduar 25 guild run. We had 26 members online so we had a full raid with the 26th player FailMuppet the Shaman doing some PVP. We had cleared up to Freya when one of our DPS had a sudden family emergency and had to leave.
At this point FailMuppet the Shaman was not doing any PVP so we asked if he wanted to join to make up the full raid, and for once he said yes but with the comment 'I've been told I've got to do so many raids a month' so it was clear that he didn't really want to be there.
Anyway we cleared the trash and got on to Freya where we had a couple of wipes due mainly to over enthusiastic AoE and the resulting lasher explosions. During this FailMuppet the Shaman's Wintertime addon kept saying 'The defensive battle for Wintergrasp will start in XX:XX minutes', mildly annoying but there you go.
After one of these wipes we had rushed back in, buffed up and were almost ready to go when I noticed that one of the players was showing up as outside my healing range in Grid so I moused over his grid box to find that he was in Wintergrasp.
The conversation in raid chat went something like this:
Me: What's FailMuppet the Shaman doing in Wintergrasp?
FailMuppet the Shaman: Killing Siege Engines
Silence on vent and raid chat.
Raid Leader: What? How?
FailMuppet the Shaman: I hearthed to Dalaran and took a portal
Further silence on vent and raid chat.
Raid Leader: What the #&@$ are you doing? There's 24 people here waiting to do a boss and you #&@$ off?
Its at this point that we go back to the title of this thread: Don't you love /gkick?
p.s. We are now recruiting one elemental shaman for Ulduar 25 man raids, please don't apply if you like licking windows.
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Zarhym wrote:
I've been wrong about too many things this week I guess, but I feel confident fielding this question...
Keanu Reeves is coming from out of the heavens to inform world leaders that their way of life must end.
Keanu Reeves is coming from out of the heavens to inform world leaders that their way of life must end.
Blizzcon Open Q&A wrote:
Q: Horde currently has two very shoutable, very good battle cries. Wondering what I yell as an Alliance character when someone yells 'For the Horde'!?
A: Have mercy?
A: Have mercy?
Wow that is one heck of an epic player. He seems to be the exact type to show you WHY you have /gkick.
Personally I love /gkick for people who are mouthy or just overall have no clue. When you join a raiding guild, or guild that raids, expect to raid or join a different kind of guild.
Personally I love /gkick for people who are mouthy or just overall have no clue. When you join a raiding guild, or guild that raids, expect to raid or join a different kind of guild.
Quote:
I've been married for 15 years, and I can say with confidence that wives are definitely BoP. And Unique. Hope yours has a short cooldown.
Heroic-ize your Ret!
Ret Solo Data
Paladin Stats
#3RAWDEAL,
Posted: Jul 26 2009 at 4:38 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Failmuppet being the last one picked and joining a fail group quickly hearted.
Raw, you're a FailMuppet, aren't you? It's the only reason I can think of anyone defending that sort of behaviour. I don't raid much, but I know I would have done the same. If you agree to join a raid, you don't just leave it without at least giving a little notice. That's not just thoughtless, it's selfish and stupid. If it wasn't realised before they pulled, it could have potentially been a wipe. No matter why he left, he treated his guildies like they were a cheap pug group. 
#5RAWDEAL,
Posted: Jul 26 2009 at 5:06 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) All i'm saying is this is an incredible story, have to be more to it. Failmuppet obviously raid before and knew exactly what he was doing. Sounds more like a payback before leaving the guild.
RAWDEAL wrote:
Something is missing in this story
Something is indeed missing from this story. When I do Wintergrasp, it's always in a raid group where the raid group is in Wintergrasp. If this Failmuppet story is true, I'd have expected the Failmuppet to have dropped group as soon as hearthing and found a different raid to join in WG.
Either way, it's extremely bad form to leave a raid to go for pvp.
The thing I was thinking was maybe he didn't think his guild would notice if he stayed in raid. After all, one person out of twenty-four missing- who would notice something as small as that? If he dropped raid to join a WG raid, it would be a little more obvious. It just seems that he took a calculated (and selfish) risk, and got caught out.
It is easy mode Freya, 24 man it.
Don't bring the pvp'er to raids anymore, it is wasted gear and you guild would get more benefit from picking up their performance and 24 manning content, than they would carrying and defaulting shardable loot to a bad kid that is in no way reliable..
Don't bring the pvp'er to raids anymore, it is wasted gear and you guild would get more benefit from picking up their performance and 24 manning content, than they would carrying and defaulting shardable loot to a bad kid that is in no way reliable..
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
karheim wrote:
We had 26 members online so we had a full raid with the 26th player FailMuppet the Shaman doing some PVP
karheim wrote:
for once he said yes but with the comment 'I've been told I've got to do so many raids a month' so it was clear that he didn't really want to be there.
karheim wrote:
During this FailMuppet the Shaman's Wintertime addon kept saying 'The defensive battle for Wintergrasp will start in XX:XX minutes', mildly annoying but there you go.
the only reason im siding with the shaman is because your ulduar raid was full and the shaman wasn't part of it. he joined due to circumstances beyond anyones control. i'm sure he had no plans to raid that night and you had no plans of taking him along to a raid that night.
in my opinion, there was a failure on both sides to be considerate to the other. he shouldn't have left to do his own thing while 24 other people wait but in the same regard if he's doing the 24 other people a favor they should at least let him go do his WG. again, it sounds like in the end it worked out for everyone albeit in a dramatic fashion.
i'm not saying, i'm just saying
_________________________
Babu Voyvoda - Hyur Midlander
White Mage
_________________________
Babu Voyvoda - Hyur Midlander
White Mage
I agree with Wondrous. I would do the exact same thing as OP. In fact I once did.
When my small guild started to do Karazhan nack in TBC we struggled a bit since none of us had any raiding experience. We also had problems with shaping core team. We had this resto Druid. We went itno our maybe third Kara with him. We wiped twice on Moroes due to people failing at cc and focus fire. I know how noobish it was, I admit it but it has no relevance to the case. At least in my opinion. After second wipe, in which we had moroes to about 15% the druid said nothing and went offline. We first assumed that he DC, which happens. But in 2 mins time his known alt came online and joined BG. My GM wanted to give him a chance to explain, but I convinced him that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable and I never want him in my raid again. Whole raid consisting all our officers agreed and we promptly kicked all his characters.
Raiding is all about teamwork. One "special unique snowflake" can sometimes ruin whole raiding night. I understand that some people have their own view on how to play game. I have no problems with that. But when you are in a raiding guild one have to keep in my mind not only their need but their's guild as well. If they can't do this then it's not a guild for them. If they fail to realize this it's their officer's job to do that in their behalf. It's really simple.
When my small guild started to do Karazhan nack in TBC we struggled a bit since none of us had any raiding experience. We also had problems with shaping core team. We had this resto Druid. We went itno our maybe third Kara with him. We wiped twice on Moroes due to people failing at cc and focus fire. I know how noobish it was, I admit it but it has no relevance to the case. At least in my opinion. After second wipe, in which we had moroes to about 15% the druid said nothing and went offline. We first assumed that he DC, which happens. But in 2 mins time his known alt came online and joined BG. My GM wanted to give him a chance to explain, but I convinced him that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable and I never want him in my raid again. Whole raid consisting all our officers agreed and we promptly kicked all his characters.
Raiding is all about teamwork. One "special unique snowflake" can sometimes ruin whole raiding night. I understand that some people have their own view on how to play game. I have no problems with that. But when you are in a raiding guild one have to keep in my mind not only their need but their's guild as well. If they can't do this then it's not a guild for them. If they fail to realize this it's their officer's job to do that in their behalf. It's really simple.
A warrior is kinda like a blender. You can shatter it from a long way off with a gun, or you could even pull the plug so it can't move, but if you stick your face into it when it's moving you're going to lose.
Timelordwho wrote:
Good plans are never ruined, only secondary contingencies triggered.
ACLinjury wrote:
the only reason im siding with the shaman is because your ulduar raid was full and the shaman wasn't part of it. he joined due to circumstances beyond anyones control. i'm sure he had no plans to raid that night and you had no plans of taking him along to a raid that night.
in my opinion, there was a failure on both sides to be considerate to the other. he shouldn't have left to do his own thing while 24 other people wait but in the same regard if he's doing the 24 other people a favor they should at least let him go do his WG. again, it sounds like in the end it worked out for everyone albeit in a dramatic fashion.
in my opinion, there was a failure on both sides to be considerate to the other. he shouldn't have left to do his own thing while 24 other people wait but in the same regard if he's doing the 24 other people a favor they should at least let him go do his WG. again, it sounds like in the end it worked out for everyone albeit in a dramatic fashion.
You're only siding with the shaman so that you can argue with people. If the shaman had plans that night and wasn't going to give them up, then the simple answer would be "No I can't come to the raid" and the whole story would be different (and he'd be moved to social status, or kicked for inactivity).
There is absolutely zero excuse to leave MID-RAID to do Wintergrasp. If Wintergrasp is that important to you, don't join the raid to begin with.
Quote:
Something is indeed missing from this story. When I do Wintergrasp, it's always in a raid group where the raid group is in Wintergrasp. If this Failmuppet story is true, I'd have expected the Failmuppet to have dropped group as soon as hearthing and found a different raid to join in WG.
I run a lot by myself. I want the win achievement(or on alts the tokens.) and don't want to deal with the people. You still get honor and kill counts.
Karthal - Moon Guard - Warrior [A]
Katran - Moon Guard - Warlock [A]
Taurun - Moon Guard - Shaman [H]
Stygius - Moon Guard - Death Knight [A]
Katekat - Moon Guard - Paladin [A]
Karthal(FFXI) - Seraph Server - Warrior 75, BeastMaster 70
Katran - Moon Guard - Warlock [A]
Taurun - Moon Guard - Shaman [H]
Stygius - Moon Guard - Death Knight [A]
Katekat - Moon Guard - Paladin [A]
Karthal(FFXI) - Seraph Server - Warrior 75, BeastMaster 70
bodhisattva wrote:
It is easy mode Freya, 24 man it.
Recently I find myself agreeing with Bodhi a lot, he's made some very good points about raids and participation, and this was actually the first time we've tried it with more than 21, we're trying to get more people up to scratch so we can go from 10 man hard modes to 25 man.
In this case we knew we could down the boss easily with 24 people, we offered the chance to join up and he took it. I think that he had been told before that we are a raiding guild, not up to Bodhi's standards but we try, and that meant coming along to raids a certain number of times a month. He had in the past signed up for raids and then not been online at the time, and had never been involved in guild chat.
But as other people have said this is how I saw the story and I don't know his side of things.
Edited, Jul 26th 2009 2:14pm by Karheim
Zarhym wrote:
I've been wrong about too many things this week I guess, but I feel confident fielding this question...
Keanu Reeves is coming from out of the heavens to inform world leaders that their way of life must end.
Keanu Reeves is coming from out of the heavens to inform world leaders that their way of life must end.
Blizzcon Open Q&A wrote:
Q: Horde currently has two very shoutable, very good battle cries. Wondering what I yell as an Alliance character when someone yells 'For the Horde'!?
A: Have mercy?
A: Have mercy?
Quote:
The conversation in raid chat went something like this:
Me: What's FailMuppet the Shaman doing in Wintergrasp?
FailMuppet the Shaman: Killing Siege Engines
Silence on vent and raid chat.
Raid Leader: What? How?
FailMuppet the Shaman: I hearthed to Dalaran and took a portal
Me: What's FailMuppet the Shaman doing in Wintergrasp?
FailMuppet the Shaman: Killing Siege Engines
Silence on vent and raid chat.
Raid Leader: What? How?
FailMuppet the Shaman: I hearthed to Dalaran and took a portal
I lol'd
lalaman wrote:
You're only siding with the shaman so that you can argue with people
i apologize if it seemed like i'm trying to argue, i was just stating my opinion and i tried to rationalize it with my thoughts.
i'm not saying, i'm just saying
_________________________
Babu Voyvoda - Hyur Midlander
White Mage
_________________________
Babu Voyvoda - Hyur Midlander
White Mage
ACLinjury wrote:
so he wasn't in the raid and only came after you needed him due to someone leaving?
Hi, there are guilds out there with more than 25 people. I've been left out of many raids only to be picked up later in because someone had to go. The joys of a large roster is people get left out. Don't like it? Don't join a good guild. Make your own.
Quote:
for once? so he's not a raider? at least he's somewhat trying to help out. although i've never been in a guild where you have have to meet a quota of some kind so not too sure on that issuse. to me, it doesn't sounds like he raids that much but was yet to be kicked.
He was a **** in his "helping". Either you are positive and willing to help, or you're a douche and you are not. You are in a RAIDING GUILD if the GL says "drop whatever you are doing and raid now" you do it. If you do not, join a social.
Quote:
although it may be annoying it sounds like he's dropping hints as to where and what he'd rather go and do, or planned to do while you had the original 25 in ulduar and he wasn't part of that[/qupte]
The above covers this too.
Well this is basically the same thing said above and my point still stands. Your plans are irrelevant if you join a raiding guild. The rule of thumb for ALL guilds out there "if you are online, you are willing to raid. if not, why did you join?"
[quote]in my opinion, there was a failure on both sides to be considerate to the other. he shouldn't have left to do his own thing while 24 other people wait but in the same regard if he's doing the 24 other people a favor they should at least let him go do his WG. again, it sounds like in the end it worked out for everyone albeit in a dramatic fashion.
The above covers this too.
Quote:
the only reason im siding with the shaman is because your ulduar raid was full and the shaman wasn't part of it. he joined due to circumstances beyond anyones control. i'm sure he had no plans to raid that night and you had no plans of taking him along to a raid that night.
Well this is basically the same thing said above and my point still stands. Your plans are irrelevant if you join a raiding guild. The rule of thumb for ALL guilds out there "if you are online, you are willing to raid. if not, why did you join?"
[quote]in my opinion, there was a failure on both sides to be considerate to the other. he shouldn't have left to do his own thing while 24 other people wait but in the same regard if he's doing the 24 other people a favor they should at least let him go do his WG. again, it sounds like in the end it worked out for everyone albeit in a dramatic fashion.
WG is every 2.5 hours. If missing a WG is that important to you, /gquit is an option. Woo, a little free honor and some PvP marks. Yeah, raiders don't care. You join a raiding guild to raid, not do a 10x(or more) a day event. If you want to PvP and not help your guildies, join a PvP guild.
Quote:
I've been married for 15 years, and I can say with confidence that wives are definitely BoP. And Unique. Hope yours has a short cooldown.
Heroic-ize your Ret!
Ret Solo Data
Paladin Stats
Karheim wrote:
p.s. We are now recruiting one elemental shaman for Ulduar 25 man raids, please don't apply if you like licking windows.
Server/faction can help here.
Beohrn -- 85 druid
Brandmanen -- 85 Hunter
"Skill is a measure of how fast a player can turn experience into competence." -- Anedris, EJ forums
"The warrior acts, the fool reacts"
Please pardon the ego, it keeps getting stuck in doorways. I'm working on it.
Brandmanen -- 85 Hunter
"Skill is a measure of how fast a player can turn experience into competence." -- Anedris, EJ forums
"The warrior acts, the fool reacts"
Please pardon the ego, it keeps getting stuck in doorways. I'm working on it.
aclinjury wrote:
although i've never been in a guild where you have have to meet a quota of some kind so not too sure on that issues
most of you have probably been in guilds that are raiding guilds. i haven't. i'm unfamiliar with the rules or stipulations. i was not aware that if the guild is raiding and they need you, you must drop what you're doing and go raid. however, i still believe that somewhere there was a miss communication of some sort. i agree with rawdeal, there has to be more to this story.
i'm not saying, i'm just saying
_________________________
Babu Voyvoda - Hyur Midlander
White Mage
_________________________
Babu Voyvoda - Hyur Midlander
White Mage
ACLinjury wrote:
aclinjury wrote:
although i've never been in a guild where you have have to meet a quota of some kind so not too sure on that issues
most of you have probably been in guilds that are raiding guilds. i haven't. i'm unfamiliar with the rules or stipulations. i was not aware that if the guild is raiding and they need you, you must drop what you're doing and go raid. however, i still believe that somewhere there was a miss communication of some sort. i agree with rawdeal, there has to be more to this story.
Raw is a troll, nothing more. But thank you for clarifying your experience(or lack of in this case) as it makes a lot more sense :) Good to see people can disagree on something and not resort to screaming matches lol.
Quote:
I've been married for 15 years, and I can say with confidence that wives are definitely BoP. And Unique. Hope yours has a short cooldown.
Heroic-ize your Ret!
Ret Solo Data
Paladin Stats
Quote:
although i've never been in a guild where you have have to meet a quota of some kind
He may be referring to some of the DKP options out there - for instance, my guild looks at percentage attendance in addition to actual DKP, plus, there's a six week refresh rate, so someone who's only hitting a single raid a month is never really going to advance on the DKP charts.
Quote:
He may be referring to some of the DKP options out there - for instance, my guild looks at percentage attendance in addition to actual DKP, plus, there's a six week refresh rate, so someone who's only hitting a single raid a month is never really going to advance on the DKP charts.
I rather think it is a raid quota, plain and simple. I've been in guilds where being online during raid and not in the raid was unacceptable (another game but I can see how it applies to WoW).
But the point that makes the difference is that he joined the raid. After that there is no justification for quitting to do WG. Raiding aside its just plain bad manners.
I suspect that there is indeed more to this than meets the eye but nothing terribly exciting. I suspect the shaman knew he was going to do WG, probably knew he'd get /gkick and didn't care.
Wherever I go - there I am.
Karheim wrote:
The conversation in raid chat went something like this:
Me: What's FailMuppet the Shaman doing in Wintergrasp?
FailMuppet the Shaman: Killing Siege Engines
Silence on vent and raid chat.
Raid Leader: What? How?
FailMuppet the Shaman: I hearthed to Dalaran and took a portal
Further silence on vent and raid chat.
Raid Leader: What the #&@$ are you doing? There's 24 people here waiting to do a boss and you #&@$ off?
I don't know if I could have been mad at that point. This is too funny. The audacity it takes to do that really makes me giggle. Of course I would have kicked him too and all but the overall is situation is priceless.
Also love Failmuppet :)
For people in my guild that don't raid we have a Socialite ranking.
Raiders are either Members, Raiders or Raid Core.
FailMuppet would have gotten a /gkick for sh*tty attitude judging from what I know of the story now.
Raiders are either Members, Raiders or Raid Core.
FailMuppet would have gotten a /gkick for sh*tty attitude judging from what I know of the story now.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
No difference between a raid or a dungeon as far as I'm concerned - if you don't want to participate just say so. I don't see the difficulty in either saying "yes I'll join" and then do your best or saying "nah, but thanks anyway" and then continuing to do what you want to do.
But then I get somewhat cross at lowlevel guildies who first badger every 80 to help them with a quest somewhere and then go "gotta go byebye" when you've agreed three minutes ago and told them know you're on the gryphon to wherever they are.
But then I get somewhat cross at lowlevel guildies who first badger every 80 to help them with a quest somewhere and then go "gotta go byebye" when you've agreed three minutes ago and told them know you're on the gryphon to wherever they are.
Cobra101 wrote:
I suspect that there is indeed more to this than meets the eye but nothing terribly exciting.
That sums about all the drama on alla, hehe.
Quote:
the only reason im siding with the shaman is because your ulduar raid was full and the shaman wasn't part of it. he joined due to circumstances beyond anyones control. i'm sure he had no plans to raid that night and you had no plans of taking him along to a raid that night.
The reason he was invited is irrelevant, if he wanted to do Wintergrasp he shouldn't have accepted the Ulduar invite. You don't let between 4 and 39 other people down to go do your own thing after accepting an invite to an instance or raid. If you can't or won't put your plans on hold then you shouldn't accept an invite to do something that will clash with those plans.
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