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#1 Jan 07 2009 at 6:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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...on my guild.

I'm not entirely sure what to do at this point.

The guild that I am currently with (let's call them "Guild A" is a great guild. Supportive, fun, and I've been with them since I hit 70 in mid TBC. The thing is, I can barely raid with them. I'm two hours ahead of server time, where as most of my guild is at server time or one hour before it. They raid at 4:30 Server Time on Tuesdays and Thursdays, 6:30 ST here. I hate doing this, but I have to disclose some personal details. I'm young (not like 7 or anything, but high-school age. Sorry, not going to give a specific number due to the whole kid = tard stigma attached), and I live at home with my parents. It's just a pain for me to get home, get everything done, eat dinner, etc. in time for the 4:30 Server Time raid.

My guild took a raiding break over the holidays, and only started again about a week ago. But this time I couldn't go to the raids not because I wasn't on in time, but because I was already saved to Naxx. D: I had thought that I wouldn't be able to get on again in time, and had PuG'd it over the weekend. This PuG was also my first ever Naxx run. Well, imagine my disappointment when one of the officers of my guild sent me a /w at the raid time and asked me if I was going to Naxx. Unfortunately, I had to tell him that I was already saved to the instance.

Over the weekend when I PuG'd Naxx, I ended up finding a run that was mostly another guild (Let's call them "Guild B") that was just pugging 4 or so people because they didn't have enough 80s at the moment. Now, it turns out this was no ordinary PuG. This guild was capable and fun (I tanked the casters in 4 Horsemen. O.o). We cleared Plague and Spider wings with no wipes whatsoever. They liked me enough that they invited me back to finish out last Sunday (we cleared Military and most of Abomination, up to Grob, before we ran out of time). We even one-shotted Horsemen, while it took Guild A quite a few wipes to get the fight down. We were having a great time, kicking *** and taking names up until the end. They made note of me as a good person to invite if the needed more people.

Today (Wednesday), I got a /w from one of Guild B's officers. He said he was very impressed with my raiding, competency - a rare quality on our server, etc., and they wanted me to do another Naxx run tomorrow (Thursday). I accepted, mainly because I wouldn't be able to do a run with Guild A at their time tomorrow (I was positive this time). The officer also discussed another thing with me: the loot in tomorrow's Naxx run will be determined with the EPGP system which is similar to DKP. He said that he "won't pressure you into leaving your guild for ours", but to make the loot system easier to track for the both of us, he did ask that I make an alt to put in their guild. I told him that I just didn't want to leave Guild A because I felt like I owed them. They helped me a lot back in TBC, and I didn't want to take and run. The officer of Guild B said that he completely understood that, however, once their guild grows more there will most likely be less and less spots for me as they fill up with actual guildies. Guild > everyone else, after all. He also said that there will always be a spot in Guild B for me, should I need it.

So, my question is... what do you guys, the greatness that is Alla, think I should do? Should I stay with Guild A, who I raided with in TBC (rather infrequently) and had a blast with and am finally starting to fit in with, or should I go to Guild B that has been kind enough to let me run with them, and was impressed enough to offer me a permanent spot in their Guild? I just feel that by running more WotLK instances with PuGs and another guild I've somehow been cheating on my original guild that's helped me so much.

There's no rush to answer this question, no deadline to meet. I could just stick with A for now, do the run with B tomorrow, and wait to see how this all plays out, but... I just want this resolved as soon as possible.
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#2 Jan 07 2009 at 7:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Personally I would think about what you really want to do in the game. You sound like you are keen on raiding so I would be looking to join a guild that is going to maximise the raiding experience that can fit in with your life. At the moment that sounds more like Guild B.

Sure Guild A helped you a lot back in TBC times but surely you must have helped them too. Personally I would be tempted to give Guild B a go. If I was leaving Guild A, I would try to leave on good terms though in case it didn't really work out with Guild B and I wanted to come back later.
#3 Jan 07 2009 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
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I am in a similar situation. I was ina guild that was loads of fun, ******* around on vent, being dumb when it wasnt frustrationg. It was great. But most members were the kind you didnt want to raid with. You know, the kind that cant do Heigan. Or die everytime on the slimes to Grobbulus. After a fight with a member who ninja'd a lot of loot for himself and his friend and was trying to justify it, I left.

I joined another guild that is more Raiding First, Fun Second. Anytime we do a raid, we rarley make the same stupid mistakes twice and waste very little time. They are impressed with my healing so I'll most likley be staying.

However, I often stay on the old guilds vent while and occasionaly raid with them if I dont think my new guild would mind. I've considered going back, but why? The way I see it, I am still in the old guild I just raid with the new one.
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#4 Jan 07 2009 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
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You could always keep that character in "guild B" and still keep in contact with "guild A" considering you have more that one character.
Its not like you cant raid with guild A and guild B. (for the most part) If you have been with the guild for a wile they will most likely understand anyway.


Just remember to talk to guild A first.
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#5 Jan 07 2009 at 7:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Politely explain to Guild A that you have found another guild that raids at a time more convinient to your schedule. If they do not undertstand there is nothing you can do about that.

Edited, Jan 7th 2009 10:13pm by Klagoth
#6 Jan 07 2009 at 7:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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My first thought is possibly not at all useful, but I have to mention it anyway: why don't you level a new character with Guild A and switch your raiding character to Guild B, and then play with both guilds? Then, you wouldn't miss out on raiding, but you'd maintain the social ties with Guild A (assuming you actually played both characters). Then, when your new character was a high enough level, you could do the runs with Guild A that you could actually make it to. Obviously, you'd have to have a more casual feel for the new character to avoid the same problem coming up -- you'd have to deliberately not worry about missing runs at the earlier time, and yet being available for runs that would be at a good time. If you did this, though, you'd definitely want to talk to both guilds: Guild A, so they knew why you were switching your main to a different guild, and Guild B, so they understood the time situation (i.e. splitting your time between two characters).

As I said, possibly not useful. Most people, it seems, have just one main that they focus on. Even people with altitis seem to focus on just one character, rather than switching among more than one. This would require commitment to both guilds, too, which might be difficult depending on your time situation and the requirements of Guild B. You wouldn't want to say that you were doing this, and then never actually spend any time on the new character in Guild A. That would defeat the purpose.

If you don't think that two characters in two guilds is an option, then none of us can really advise you, because it really comes down to what is most important to you. If the social ties with Guild A are more important than raiding, then you should choose to stay in Guild A. If, on the other hand, you aren't having any fun because you want to raid but can't, then you should switch to Guild B. Regardless, as long as you are open and honest with both guilds, you shouldn't have any problems. Guild A has to understand that the time of the runs isn't working for you (if not, why not? Let them know and maybe they'll find a better time, and this whole issue would be mostly moot), so they should understand your desire to move into a guild where you *can* raid. Meanwhile, it sounds like Guild B understands why you would want to stay in your current guild, and you have a good relationship with them even though you aren't in the guild officially. It all depends on which aspect of gaming is most important to you, and either answer is fine as long as you're happy with it.
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#7 Jan 07 2009 at 7:17 PM Rating: Good
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Depends what you're getting more from and your own personal play experience. If you enjoy the raiding aspect of the game and the guild you're with isn't fulfilling it, then go to Guild B, but if you feel that the friendships and the place you've earned and made in your current guild is too much to give up then stay with them. In the end, it's how you want to play the game. Remember, with a new guild will come new friendships if you choose to have them. If there's certain people in the current guild that you don't want to play the game without, you still can without being in the same guild as them. This is a decision you will have to make on your own, it may not be easy, but it'll determine how you play the game, and whichever way seems better is up to you.
#8 Jan 07 2009 at 7:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Guild A sounds like a bunch of losers, though they sound like nice losers.

I'd politely bow out of Guild A and get an invite to Guild B.
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#9 Jan 07 2009 at 7:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Leaving a guild for another guild is a hard thing to do. It's like breaking up with someone. You have kinda come to the crossroads though.

The question you have to ask yourself is where do you want to be in 1/3/6 months time?

Is raiding new content with fun people what you want to do?

Would you be happy to wipe/struggle (timewise/and with wipes etc) with progression in your current guild?

And if you do intend to move to Guild B remember, just because your not with Guild A doesnt mean you still can't be friends with them. Wow this really is starting to sound like relationship stuff now =O
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#10 Jan 07 2009 at 7:24 PM Rating: Default
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
Guild A sounds like a bunch of losers, though they sound like nice losers.

I'd politely bow out of Guild A and get an invite to Guild B.



To be honest. I'd listen to this guy. If, and I do mean if... I ever had a reason, or ability to raid... he's the one I'd seek advice with. He, and like minded posters agree.
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#11 Jan 07 2009 at 7:24 PM Rating: Good
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Join the guild that raids when you are more comfortable raiding. Most definitely man.
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#12 Jan 07 2009 at 7:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Politely explain to Guild A that you have found another guild that raids at a time more convinient to your schedule. If they do not undertstand there is nothing you can do about that.


I concur. Your history of not being able to meet their current raiding schedule is a valid and logical explanation. You are young (not a knock) and need to understand this will be a learning experience. You WILL simultaneously receive bashing from some Guild A members for leaving. However, you WILL also maintain friendships with those who understand.

Ignore the one group and embrace the other.
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#13 Jan 07 2009 at 7:52 PM Rating: Good
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arthoriuss wrote:
Leaving a guild for another guild is a hard thing to do. It's like breaking up with someone.

Uh, not really. I didn't sleep with my guild.
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#14 Jan 07 2009 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Politely explain to Guild A that you have found another guild that raids at a time more convinient to your schedule. If they do not understand there is nothing you can do about that.


This.

Guild A, while nice and helpful, isn't what you are really looking for in a guild. And even if you were to leave Guild A, you can make it clear that if they need help running instances/raids etc, you'll be around. If that's the case anyway.

On another note entirely... You're certain you're in high school? No wall of text, no leet speak, proper grammar and spelling. That isn't to say all young adults do those things, but I'd have a very hard time telling your writing apart from people 20 years older than you.
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#15 Jan 07 2009 at 8:17 PM Rating: Good
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Caia wrote:
On another note entirely... You're certain you're in high school? No wall of text, no leet speak, proper grammar and spelling. That isn't to say all young adults do those things, but I'd have a very hard time telling your writing apart from people 20 years older than you.

Anyone that actually reads throughout their young life will definitely be able to express themselves more clearly than the average person.

I mean really, nowadays parents think that education for their kids is having them watch Barney or the Discovery Channel or something.
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#16 Jan 07 2009 at 8:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks for all the replies, rate-ups inbound.

as for what I'll actually do... I am leaning more towards Guild B, like you guys are suggesting. The GM of A is very understanding, and I'm pretty sure she'd be just fine if I was to explain my situation with raiding.

I may wait a bit, however. I'd like to do at least a little bit with A before making the switch.
Quote:

On another note entirely... You're certain you're in high school? No wall of text, no leet speak, proper grammar and spelling. That isn't to say all young adults do those things, but I'd have a very hard time telling your writing apart from people 20 years older than you.


Lat time I checked, yeah, I'm a kid. A lot of people are surprised at that. That's really the main reason that I don't like to share my age: as much as I hate it, there is a stigma against the young online and for a good reason. The vast majority of people under 16 don't like to use proper grammar and spelling, instead going for "lol tlk leik dis!!1!111elven!1!!2#1". I've always been a bit of a grammar ****, however.

Edit because Theo got his post in before mine: Yeah, I also was a bit of a book nut at a young age. Might have something to do with it.

Edited, Jan 7th 2009 11:19pm by IDrownFish
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#17 Jan 07 2009 at 8:24 PM Rating: Excellent
Hard thing to do OP.

You need to step back and ask yourself what you want to do/get from the game.

The enjoyment of Raiding and progression that you COULD/CAN/WILL get from "B", or staying in a Guild that you can not raid with (due to their raid time)?

If I were you, I'd go to Guild B as a Trial Member (tell this to your Guild A). If it all works out, then you are set. If not, return to Guild A.

It truly is a bummer that you can only be part of one guild in WoW. I came from FFXI and enjoyed being part of many LinkShells (guilds) at one time (craft LS, end game LS, social LS). Helped make more in-game friends, more friends is always good...

So yea, become part of that Guild > PuGs with Guild B and let the good times roll.
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#18 Jan 07 2009 at 8:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
arthoriuss wrote:
Leaving a guild for another guild is a hard thing to do. It's like breaking up with someone.

Uh, not really. I didn't sleep with my guild.

You haven't?

IDrownFish wrote:
I may wait a bit, however. I'd like to do at least a little bit with A before making the switch.

Thats the spirit!

I love quoting out of context... =P

I think the trial period sounds like it will work out the best. I'd keep an alt in Guild A for when you want to chat with them. Also it shows Guild A that you are keen to remain friends with them down the track.
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#19 Jan 07 2009 at 9:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've been in your situation. Time constraints suck. Join Guild B and explain to A that's it not them it's you. Keep them on your buddy list but really if a guild doesn't raid at your time slot it's not the guild for you, no matter how good they are. It's just too much trying to work a schedule around a guild. It's easier to find a guild that works with your schedule. Trust me on this. It sucks to leave but it's honestly for the better.
#20 Jan 07 2009 at 10:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I even left the server and the continent to relevel from scratch (US->EU). Had to leave some friends and a great guild and had to start from level 1 when there was about a month to wotlk release. Timezones matter a lot if you want to experience certain elements from a game like WoW. Sounds to me that explaining Guild A that it's great they are having fun in Naxx, it pains you to not be able to join at their time. And therefor decided to join a friendly guild that fits your schedule. You shouldnt be afraid of what guild A thinks. After all, it's just a time schedule issue.
#21bsgnitro, Posted: Jan 07 2009 at 11:03 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Here's your strategy. You start a alt with guild A. Tell em you really like this new toon. Then you rename your original toon. Tell guild A you decided to delete him to make room in your toon roster and you love your new toon so much. LOL! This way your guild never knows your moonlighting on em!
#22 Jan 08 2009 at 12:46 AM Rating: Decent
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If your guild will take you back if things don't work out, I'd go that way. As a matter of fact, if they -won't- take you back, that'd make me go even faster. I've changed guilds I dunno how many times since Wrath, trying to find a good fit for a raiding guild for me, and I've seen more drama about leaving guilds than I ever could have imagined, and I'm not one to leave a guild on bad terms usually. It just seems that a lot guilds on my server have a "not for us, then against us" kind of mentality. Even without that mentality, I still have noticed that when I leave a guild, people who seemed to have added me to flist and sent me tells about particular things stop doing that, which is annoying. I try to keep contact with them and let them know that I'm still available to do w/e, but I swear it does seem like guildies act like I've broken up with them, even a "it isn't you, it's me" type of breakup. lol.

That said, I left the last guild I was in with a bit of a bad taste in my mouth because I left my friendly guild for a similar reason Guild B is talking to you about. The GL said he wanted to "test" me for a raiding spot, and the test was to do a Naxx10 with them this week. But he said that his guildies might be upset if I was not in the guild when we raided, so I should join his guild. I told him I would /gquit soon, as I wanted to just hang out with my buddies for a couple more days, but he wanted me to go ahead and join his guild right then. Eh, like I said, the friends guild will let me come back, so I joined this guy's guild, remembered that a couple of my good friends were there, and had a great time those couple of days doing different things with them. Tuesday came, and I got all ready to raid, was invited to the raid, and then was booted from it while sitting on my mount in Venomspite ready to go. Because other guildies who'd raided with him already wanted to go (which was a lie, I know for sure, since one of my best friends was going and he had never even seen Naxx). Mmk. So I /gquit, and was immediately sent a tell by the GL saying "GFG gquitting because of a 10man raid spot," at which point I told him that I JOINED his guild for that -particular- raid spot that -particular- night. Whatever. lol.

So I joined a guild I've been talking to for the past couple of weeks, only to find out that they raid pretty early, which probably won't work well for me. Oh well. There's absolutely no organization in that guild right now, but there are quite a few good players in there, so I'm going to see if there is a group who might be willing to do later raids. Otherwise, I guess I will pug it, though I'm tired of doing that. I had 3 invites to Naxx earlier tonite, and wasn't quite sure what to do, and I hate that feeling. I just want a place I can call home where I'll have a spot to raid during hours I like to raid.


Anway, blah blah. The idea of putting in an alt in Guild B for the epgp is a good one if you don't want to rush into it. At least you'd be getting loot the same way everyone else in the guild is, and then, if you continue to enjoy raiding with this guild, you can move your main toon to their guild in order to bond or w/e. I'd jump on that in a heartbeat.
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#23 Jan 08 2009 at 1:53 AM Rating: Good
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Klagoth wrote:
Politely explain to Guild A that you have found another guild that raids at a time more convinient to your schedule. If they do not undertstand there is nothing you can do about that.


I liked this particular way of phrasing it.
#24 Jan 08 2009 at 3:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd try not to take too long on the decision for a couple of reasons:

a) (the selfish reason) the longer you leave it the more chance that Guild B will find someone else to fill your slot, which leaves you in a worse position for getting on runs (even if they are still happy to save a space for you in the guild).

b) from an officer point of view I'd rather people kept me informed on what they are doing and why (not every single thing, but just the important stuff). If you keep raiding with guild B (and so not be able to attend any guild raids with guild A) it can be confusing for your current GM, is raiding with the new guild a temporary thing or will they get used to having you around only for you to leave? Personally I'd rather know that someone was going to change guilds so that I could plan accordingly, rather than have it left up in the air for weeks.

In the end do what you think is best, if guild A really are a nice bunch they won't mind you leaving for something more suitable (we've had members leave for raid related reasons and later come back with no hard feelings), just try and do it in a simple, drama-free way.
#25 Jan 08 2009 at 4:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Could you leave other chars in Guild A so you can stay in touch and occasionally play with them? Move your Main Char to B. You'll certainly be happier in a guild that fits your schedule and ambitions better. Imagine wiping on 4H in the future and thinking "Damn, we'd be done by now in B." every single time will really take the fun out of it.

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about help you got ingame that now should somehow bind you. Most people don't do things just out of the goodness of their hearts. If they join you for instance X, they probably need something from there as well. If they pull your alt through Scarlet Monastery, they probably expect you to do the same. Don't be too soft about it.
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#26 Jan 08 2009 at 4:28 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Klagoth wrote:
Politely explain to Guild A that you have found another guild that raids at a time more convinient to your schedule. If they do not undertstand there is nothing you can do about that.


I liked this particular way of phrasing it.


Me too.
As long as your current guild leader isn't a douche he should be ok with it, if he's a nice guy he'll wish you luck and explain it to the rest of the guild.
Just add anyone you want to keep in touch with to your friends.

Maybe move a lower level alt into guild A to keep up with everyone?
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