Tanking vs Knockback spellsFollow

Ummm...no. If I say don't do something to the mobs I'm responsible for controlling, you don't do it. Period. There is no discussion or negotiation. You just...don't...do it. Because if you do, you're gone. I do my job so that you can do yours. I don't take off half my armor in a heroic because I like draenei *** and ***** the healer over in the process. I don't restrict my rotation to single target attacks on AoE pulls and ***** over the dps. I ask the dps not to use knockbacks because it complicates my role, and that is the end of it. I don't care how good you think you are or how much of a benefit you think you are creating...control of mob position has always been the role of the tank and you've got no right to ***** around with it.



And what I'm trying to stress is that they don't compliment the tank. They scatter the mobs in a fan shaped direction. I don't just want the mobs on the outer edge of my consecrate, tyvm, I want the so that my next HotR hits all of them, which is often something that I can't do after a knockback because the radius is botched. You pulled threat. That alone is a dps no-no. Blizzard didn't give you the knockback so that you could be sloppy in one area and "fix it". They gave you the tools to get melee off of you in PvP. If you did pull threat, chances are the second the mob start to move I've got a solution in the works and then BLAMMO!! Off they go again.

Just. Don't. Do it.

Please tell me what guild and server so I can stay as far away from you as possible.

I think people should be more clear on which ability exactly they hate. I'm a druid and love Typhoon for interupting casters and it's a great instacast spell for when we're Aoeing. It doesn't knock them far at all, only in one direction, and they just run right back. I can definetly understand people complaining about the Mage and Shammy spells where it blasts them in a "splash" pattern.

Don't bother Aurelius. They just can't seem to grasp that what the tank says goes. They don't understand and they don't care. Just keep kicking them from groups and maybe one day they'll learn, but I doubt it.

The only time the tank has to listen to someone elses call is when the healer says "mana" (assuming a tank who knows what the hell they are doing), not when the DPS says I'm leet look what I can do.

The solution to having a tank that is struggling with AoE threat is not to pull then use your knockback. It's to make more effort not to pull.

End of story.

No, I'm used to filling my role in a group, and my role is to control the pull. Period. Within the scope of that role are such things as keeping mobs from killing the healer, positioning mobs appropriately with regards to CC, AoE, and LoS issues, and building enough threat to enable the dps to down the mobs before the healer goes OOM. The little extras I toss in...like taunting mobs off of sloppy dps, building threat fast enough for dps to go bawls out, and utilizing my defensive options to conserve group resources are what separate me from mediocre tanks. I make it easy for other people to do what they need to do, so when I ask them not to do things that make my job more complicated, they'd damn well better listen because there won't be a second request.



The point you missed is that I ask a great many things of party/raid members based on the situation to facilitate a successful run. Whether it's focusing fire, applying crowd control, or using/not using specific abilities, it's entirely within my purvue as a tank to make those requests. Go level your tank some more and try on some heroic dungeons and see how you like it when everyone in the group does whatever the hell they want despite what you've asked them to do. Then maybe you'll understand.



Protip: In the time it takes you to realize you've pulled aggro, adjust your position, and activate your knockback, a good tank has already taunted the mob. And anything they had planned to do to solidify their threat is now botched because the already-taunted mob has just changed location thanks to your knockback.



READ AGAIN: I don't care how good you think you are, if you're in a group with me and continue to use knockbacks (much less continue to pull aggro) after I've asked you not to, you're not in the group anymore. So hard to understand?



What do you think I'd say to a hunter if they told me that their pets were given the option to auto-Growl because Blizzard intended for that option to be used in dungeons?

What do you think I'd say to a dps warrior who found it amusing to pop into defensive stance and taunt with the rational being that Blizzard gave them the option because it was intended for use in that way?

What do you think I'd say to a resto druid who switched between cat and tree form for some dps between heals?

Or how about the shadow priest who mind controls a target in an AoE pull?

The DK who pulls out their Army of Ghouls on a boss fight?

I don't accept the rational that just because you have the ability means you can bypass long standing group role conventions simply because you were given the ability. You're thinking of the benefits to you. I'm thinking of the consequences or potential consequences that come along with those benefits, and because I have a more simple, predictable, effective solution, your argument becomes moot.

If a knockback is to be used in a PvE encounter, it's best used as part of a strategy that everyone is aware of...ie. Zombie Chow on Gluth or Skirmishers in AN. If everyone knows it's coming, they can react to it appropriately. If it's not a part of a stated strategy, it has no place in group content. You are not a tank. Positioning mobs is not your responsibility. Managing your threat is. Execute your role properly and you don't need to knock mobs back. Fail to execute your role properly and you're pooched no matter how you try to fix it.

Remember that the context of this discussion is the use of knockbacks on mobs that are being tanked. I don't care whatever clever uses you come up with for it...unless those uses interfere with my ability to do my job.

Edited, Jan 7th 2009 11:24pm by AureliusSir

I'm a healer. I do what my tank tells me to do. I put good tanks on my friends list, and bad tanks on my ignore list. Its a tanks job to keep ME alive, so I can keep everyone else alive. To this end, I'm perfectly willing to do anything the tank wants to do in order to stay alive. Whatever the tank wants, they should get. If they want you to stop aoe's, typing, anything, do it. Please. If the tank wants to go afk and rub one out so they can regain their center, Goforit. Strategy and tactis and working together wins over doing whatever you want ten times out of ten. It's their job to control fights, let them do it. Nothing wrong with a little discussion, but unless you're going to step in and take all the damage, let them call the shots. Kthanks.

lol the other nite some friends of mine and I were running heroics and sometimes we tend to just go for sloppy drunk runs and it's lots of fun. I ran in and blastwaved every group of mobs the tank was tanking. :) He was cussing me, and we were all laughing. Reminds me of when just two of us were grinding for stuff for Scryers rep. She's a lock, and she'd fear a bunch and I'd frost nova them in place. lol!