That paladin and mage fix was amazingFollow

I don't think he's ever ... played Arena.

(sub-1500s don't count, IMO)

Yeah, it's not like I've spent months playing PvP at level 80, to the point that I barely played on live in S4.

I think that's what these specs are tuned for, right?

You're a moron, Aurelius. Nothing is going to change for ret on the way to 80. Damage will scale with health pools (as we're not getting a retool of stamina itemization), and ret will still be too powerful at 80 in regards to burst damage.

But don't take my word for it. It's not like I've played beta and thus know what I'm talking about.

Every class has gotten their burst from beta toned down a lot more than ret. There are further balancing patches coming, mark my words, because I'm going to throw them back in your face.

I'm not too worried about stuff "balancing" at 80. Those extra 10 talent points give me a lot of utility. Based on my current and projected build, i'll be gaining:

30% off all stuns against me, and my magical debuffs will have 30% dispell resistence (stuff like vindication, judgement of justice/light/wisdom, the righteous vengeance holy DoT)

2 mins knocked off the Hand of Freedom cooldown, an extra 4 seconds on Hand of Freedom's duration

+2% chance to dodge (filler talent)

-6% to all incoming damage

The fabled 30 second CD on hammer of justice. I think the glyph that increases it's duration to 7 seconds is disappearing though.

Preliminary. All preliminary. Blizzard has tons of time to tune and re-tune classes before and during S5 and they know it. S5 is weeks away. Pallies have already been nerfed, and I'll be the first to concede that maybe the nerfs haven't been enough (mostly because I don't care either way) but whining about it at this point is just stupidity. But the extent of the whining is even greater than the extent of ret pally OP and it gets old.




I'd watch it with the blatant personal attacks if I were you...what with this being the kinder, gentler Allakhazam that it is. If you can't behave yourself on par with a 12 yr old, say nothing, ya?



It doesn't matter what happened on beta...it's BETA. PRELIMINARY. SUBJECT TO CHANGE.

BETA != LIVE.

Understand yet?



You obviously didn't play a Ret pally from 3.0.2 -> now, because if you had you'd know just how much ret pally burst has been nerfed. It's been pretty substantial, and more importantly, Blizzard has already said they're not done yet.

"nnnduhrr Ret pallies are OP!"
"yes, we're working on it."
"u dont understandz! they r teh OP!"
"yes, we're working on it."
"nonono! THEY ARE OP!!"
"stfu"

So shut up and stop reading it?

It's amazing that you picked my posts to quote and reply to, when I've been the one saying, "yes, they need more balancing, but they're not insane right now".

Go back and read my first post in this thread.

And yes, you're obviously mentally deficient. Anyone who's been here long enough to read your posts about PvP knows that.

I want to correct Zafire on those glaring errors.

First, a paladin can't use their yellow attacks in 3 seconds. It goes Judgement (1.5 second GCD) Crusader Strike (1.5 second) Divine Storm (1.5 second GCD). Allowing for human error and server lag, it always takes a bit longer than 3 seconds. It's not a big deal, but you rarely get clean rotations in pvp because of kiting, CC against you (stuns, charge blind and so on). You contradict yourself anyway saying it's repeatable every 8 seconds by pointing out that DS has a 10 sec CD.

Cleanse doesn't affect warlock curses. Frost nova.... maybe we can cleanse out of it, usually not. Good mages will put CS up when you're rooted to prevent you cleansing it. Frost and fire mages have so many trash debuffs (multiple stacks of winter's chill and scorch can blow me tbh) that cleanse never frees you. Arcane will have Slow up consistantly.

I personally agree ret gets too much +spellpower from a certain talent at the moment, but all our heals are kickable (they have a cast time). We can't heal while moving either.

Hand of freedom is very easily dispellable, stealable and lasts 10 seconds. It CANNOT break stun on the paladin using it. Because you're already stunned and can't activate the ability. It breaks stuns on party members which is highly situational. That's a talent that's hard to get the points for too.



Edited, Nov 11th 2008 4:49pm by ArtemisEnteri

Whenever I think of OP I think of Menismyforte's "PVE IS FAIR LOLOLOL" clip.

It's hilarious. That's off topic though.




1.5 GCD Judgement for sure, that ruins that. DS has a cooldown longer than 8 seconds. 100% Move Speed, that only really counters druid. Hitbox issues would **** us up otherwise. Also that 15% is not quite as great as everyone makes out to be. We sacrifice JoW/JoL to JoJ you.

To the bold part, are you fucking stupid?

Our heals, although much better now, still require us to stand still. It's about as useful as just surviving. AoW's FoL is awesome, however.

HoF?HOF?

Good Mages CS and nuke for the kill or Spellsteal and nuke to set up the kill. Shamans purge it, Priests dispell it. Hounds can eat it. Arcane shot can remove it. Druids can cyclone through it. Any other myriad of CC that isn't a slow does fine to combat it.


Nerfing Instants solves the problems, just saying .

You need to read patch notes more diligently

"" was for Instants nerf.

What does remove magic effects now for hunters?

Can Rogue's still CoS HoJ? Or did that get nerfed?

Mages can steal Hand of Freedom (edit: beaten!), along with many many other buffs. Evert seen an Arcane mage with wings before? Not pretty. It doesn't break any stun i've tested it on just after the patch (Cheap shot, kidney shot, hammer of justice charge intercept etc). If that's changed it's a massive, ridiculous buff since it's an extra trinket against rogues.

Oh yeah, rogues are the only class that get those 1 sec GCDs. Trust me, try playing a different melee class at 70 and it will feel very sluggish.

Mutilate is not the spec to conter ret at all, but wounding poison at least should help against them spamming flash of light all the time.

Cloak of Shadows still lets you ignore Hammer of justice, repentance etc. But it's only a 6 second duration, so rogues have to judge when to use it well.


Edited, Nov 11th 2008 5:28pm by ArtemisEnteri

Arcane Mages like you as well, demo locks can cut it close as well, but not that close. Afflic would be closer but they can't survive our bubble. Without our "oh ****" bubble most kiting classes get a field day.



TBH, I don't see how a Arms warrior can beat a frost mage. If you get FoF when they need to finish you and DP, FB, possible BF and then CoC/WE Shatter, or IB + Glyph.

But I have not played a frost mage at 70.