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#52 Nov 04 2008 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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cafeen wrote:
Now, Presidential. I don't support either of the two main party candidates. The other candidates simply don't matter. No matter how much people delude themselves to think so, they don't. Even if they did, I don't support Nader and I don't know the others well enough to have a justified opinion in voting for either of them. Call being educated about your choices lazy if you wish, I call it responsible.

you got a funny defernition of edumacation.

like it or not, it's attitudes like yours that make the two-party system what it is. was ross perot irrelevant?
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#53 Nov 04 2008 at 10:44 AM Rating: Decent
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The state of Washington is voting for me for President. True story. (In my mind!)

I voted weeks ago, but then, I've been pretty firm on my choice for a long while now. Both are better candidates than we've seen for some time now, though they're both low-life political douche bags.

And I mean that in the most respectful way possible.

By the way, by not voting, you're giving up the right to complain about anything that the President has the right to decide for the next four years. I hope those of you that don't vote realize that.
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#54 Nov 04 2008 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Jst got back, first time in an actual voting place in 17 years, been an absentee for a long time.
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#55 Nov 04 2008 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Sent in my ballots last week.
#56 Nov 04 2008 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I voted, of course.

To make this thread on-topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5Kg-K7em20

Just remember, everyone:

"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."
- Winston Churchill


If you haven't voted, and are able to vote, do so. There really is no excuse not to.
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#57cafeen, Posted: Nov 04 2008 at 10:58 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes, I'm educated enough to know that 3 of the 5 I don't support. I'm educated enough to state that I don't know enough about the other two to support them either. Would you rather me vote because you said so? Or would you rather me vote because I stood up and supported those who I believe should be in power? From the sounds of it, you believe that everyone should vote even if they don't support or believe in what they are doing. How is that responsible or ethical? Of course, it's what the great majority of people do either via party lines (I'm supporting Obama because he's a Democrat!, Vote Sununu because he's a Republican!) or via mass media brainwashing (Obama is a muslim! McCain equals Bush!) That doesn't make it the right thing to do in my eyes though (in fact, quite the opposite), and nothing that anyone says will change that fact.
#58 Nov 04 2008 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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cafeen wrote:
See, I know why I don't vote. I refuse to accept the "lesser of 2 (5) evils" mentality. I see that as abuse of the rights granted to us. I see voting against someone as abuse. Hell, I see voting along party lines as complete abuse of the rights that were granted us. I don't write in, because 4 written in names is worthless and a waste of my time and others who are there because they do support what they are voting for.


So you'd rather that the greater of two evils makes it into office, then? Or do you just subscribe to your completely irrational philosophy as a justification of a viewpoint with no logical basis? Like it or not, one or the other is making it into office. Your vote has the power to influence which one. The "lesser of 2 evils" mentality is the only mentality you can take that makes a difference, if you somehow view both choices as wrong. Abstention is not the way to take a moral stand on this at all.
#59 Nov 04 2008 at 11:04 AM Rating: Decent
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I voted around 10am CST. No lines, no long wait. In and out. I received a free sticker out of it too!
#60 Nov 04 2008 at 11:10 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
So you'd rather that the greater of two evils makes it into office, then?
So long as I had nothing to do with putting him there, yes. My philosophy may be irrational to some, but I'd simply rather not abuse my right to vote by supporting what I don't believe in.

Sure, I'm verbose in writing, but that's the simple gist of it. I simply don't believe in using my vote to support someone that I don't. Not too hard to understand.

If you support your candidate, whoever it is, great. I applaud you for finding someone who fits your values. It just rather rubs me the wrong way being told to do something I don't believe in. This is probably the worst of it too. Thankfully it only happens once every couple of years (and only gets this bad once every four). In my eyes, being forced to vote is just as wrong as being forced not to.

I do, admittedly, get a bit defensive here as well, as I do get attacked from all sides (friends and family included). I also tend to get "preachy" in my beliefs on this subject. Now, typically, with so many people telling me "You're wrong", I may rethink my position. But for this one, it's something I've been believing for the past 11+ years (since I was old enough to actually have the right). I'm sorry it doesn't mesh with the "norm", but it is something I very strongly believe. So, just to set the record straight. My beliefs are my own. I do not intend to push them on to others. I will defend them if I feel I'm being attacked though. Best of luck to those who support their choices and /salute to those who have put their life on the line to defend both the right to vote and the right to choose not to.

Edit - "what I don't believe it" doesn't make nearly as much sense as "what I don't believe in"

Edited, Nov 4th 2008 2:11pm by cafeen
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#61 Nov 04 2008 at 12:17 PM Rating: Decent
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cafeen wrote:
Quote:
So you'd rather that the greater of two evils makes it into office, then?
So long as I had nothing to do with putting him there, yes. My philosophy may be irrational to some, but I'd simply rather not abuse my right to vote by supporting what I don't believe in.


FYI, the ability to speak against something in a consequence-free fashion and a refusal to do so is a complicit way of putting the guy into office. I can see that I won't be changing your mind, but having the potential to sway the results and not doing so is not nearly the same thing as being unable to impact things.
#62 Nov 04 2008 at 12:23 PM Rating: Decent
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I couldn't guarantee that I would be home today so I voted via mail. Now all these "Yes on 8" (California Proposition 8, the one that is attempting to repeal the right of same-*** marriage, where a 'yes' vote would repeal the current law) signs literally lining the median and sides of certain streets in my area can *%$* off.
#63 Nov 04 2008 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
I didn't vote, because I'm not American. The thing affecting me most is that both 'most-eligible' candidates see Bermuda (my home) as a tax haven, and have both mentioned this in their campaigns. I come to the WoW forums for WoW-related content. If I want political discourse, I'll go a political forum (or OOT).
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#64 Nov 04 2008 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Dang straight I voted this morning. Although I may not like or agree with the candidates. I spent 10 years in the Army in places like Bosnia, the first Gulf War, so most definitely I am going to exercise my right to vote any and every chance I get.
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#65 Nov 04 2008 at 12:31 PM Rating: Default
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I will be voting in a while when wife gets home and kid gets home from school.

To those that aren't voting... "I don't like either, so I just won't vote." You will never get a perfect person running for office. The trick is too go vote for the one that you think will not ***** things up as bad as the other might. Pick the lesser of two evils.


On a side note... Why the hell can't we vote for VP? If the VP may possibly step into presidency at some point, we the people should have more say in who gets that position. What if we like one pres canidate, but not his VP pick? we should be able to choose VP lust like we pick most other gov positions.
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#66 Nov 04 2008 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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I voted over the weekend. Took advantage of the leave early come late to work thing to sleep in late. Good times.
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#67 Nov 04 2008 at 12:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Voted last week. Mail-in ballot FTW!
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#68 Nov 04 2008 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
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Just to set things straight: in America, you never surrender your right to criticize the government. It doesn't matter whether you vote for the lesser of two evils or the greater of two evils or you don't vote at all.

Hell, you can become a Member of Congress or the President of the United States of America yourself and you will still have the right (nay, the obligation) to criticize the government. We are citizens, not subjects, and don't ever let anyone tell you differently.

With that said, I'm off to the polls. Good night everyone, and have a pleasant tomorrow!
#69 Nov 04 2008 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I voted and got my free cup of Starbuck's coffee :)
#70 Nov 04 2008 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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Took a half day, did my civic duty and am enjoying my coffee (it's terrible).

I like voting, I think everyone needs to, but really I just wanted to get rid of all the Rossi ads that would come on back to back every commercial break. In some ways I like to think that voting day is sort of a voodoo ritual to drive away the annoying TV spirits. Particularly ones that can't bring themselves to NAME THEIR PARTY.

Oh well, it's after noon, time to switch to liquer and play Pundit Bingo.
#71 Nov 04 2008 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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cafeen wrote:

See, I know why I don't vote. I refuse to accept the "lesser of 2 (5) evils" mentality. I see that as abuse of the rights granted to us. I see voting against someone as abuse. Hell, I see voting along party lines as complete abuse of the rights that were granted us. I don't write in, because 4 written in names is worthless and a waste of my time and others who are there because they do support what they are voting for.


Well, we live in a society where nothing is perfect. Unless you yourself run for president, in a 2-party system, or a parliamentary system, you won't agree with everyone on everything. You need to find what is important to you and decide based on this.

So you have two options:

1) Let everyone else run things for you.

or

2) Try to affect things such that your voice is heard the way you want it to be.

I have no problem with you taking the "get out of the way" option, but ultimately don't expect anything to go the way you want because you yourself won't make it happen.
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Potomos wrote: The signal of the hunter is as a great arrow of destination above your head that means the risk imminent.

Varrah (*** changed from Varek): 79 druid, Anetheron
Lortho: 70 Hunter, Anetheron

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Anetheron&n=Varrah

#72 Nov 04 2008 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
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soggymaster wrote:
I couldn't guarantee that I would be home today so I voted via mail. Now all these "Yes on 8" (California Proposition 8, the one that is attempting to repeal the right of same-*** marriage, where a 'yes' vote would repeal the current law) signs literally lining the median and sides of certain streets in my area can *%$* off.


What, and miss all that bowling practice?

:)
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Potomos wrote: The signal of the hunter is as a great arrow of destination above your head that means the risk imminent.

Varrah (*** changed from Varek): 79 druid, Anetheron
Lortho: 70 Hunter, Anetheron

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Anetheron&n=Varrah

#73 Nov 04 2008 at 2:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Voted today after work.

I was a little worried that being in PA, the line would be ridiculously long, but I was in and out in about 5 min.

Felt pretty good afterward.
#74 Nov 04 2008 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I didn't vote.

I do not follow politics.

I pay my taxes without complaint.

I hate no matter who's ad it is, it's always negitive against the other.

I love my country.
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#75 Nov 04 2008 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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I clicked this thread hoping to see a poll of some sort, was thinking maybe wow.allakhazam could have their own little vote... :(
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#76 Nov 04 2008 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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I didn't vote, because I'm not American. so why is this on the wow forums and not the OOT forum?
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